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On January 14 2013 01:11 Breach_hu wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2013 03:46 Existor wrote:On January 13 2013 03:42 BaDMannerS wrote:
You are wasting your time to try to counter such imbalanced unit, guys. I see good counters here, but none of them includes dealing with the damn huge mass of simultaneous spawn form a huge distance. How the hell are we supposed to reach the imbacusts? Outdrop him? 2 widows can clear half of the locusts. Sieges can do that too Please drop those ridicolous sentences like "2 widows can clear the half of the locusts" , they are flat out lies. If the Z uses SH's good, they you cant touch the Zerg with mech. I had a game where 10 SH tanked around 20tanks for like 2-3 minutes on a ramp.
I think you got your numbers mixed, 10 Tanks managed to stop 20 Swarm Hosts, not the other way around, it is just not possible, since it was a ramp.
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Russian Federation4295 Posts
If the Z uses SH's good, they you cant touch the Zerg with mech. I had a game where 10 SH tanked around 20tanks for like 2-3 minutes on a ramp.
Can you show that game? Every zerg player will be glad to see that
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On January 14 2013 07:27 Ramiz1989 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 14 2013 01:11 Breach_hu wrote:On January 13 2013 03:46 Existor wrote:On January 13 2013 03:42 BaDMannerS wrote:
You are wasting your time to try to counter such imbalanced unit, guys. I see good counters here, but none of them includes dealing with the damn huge mass of simultaneous spawn form a huge distance. How the hell are we supposed to reach the imbacusts? Outdrop him? 2 widows can clear half of the locusts. Sieges can do that too Please drop those ridicolous sentences like "2 widows can clear the half of the locusts" , they are flat out lies. If the Z uses SH's good, they you cant touch the Zerg with mech. I had a game where 10 SH tanked around 20tanks for like 2-3 minutes on a ramp. I think you got your numbers mixed, 10 Tanks managed to stop 20 Swarm Hosts, not the other way around, it is just not possible, since it was a ramp.
I can agree that its possible to hold off a tank contain at your ramp for a good amount of time with swarm host done it many times.
Why do people think swarm host are bad the unit is just fine.
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On January 14 2013 05:56 Orzabal wrote:Show nested quote +On January 14 2013 01:48 Forikorder wrote:On January 14 2013 01:45 Orzabal wrote:On January 14 2013 01:39 Forikorder wrote:On January 14 2013 01:38 Orzabal wrote:
Hi, I am only play 2v2 on HotS at Master lvl.
Almost all game I go for roach/hydra mix into Viper. I never loose vs a zerg who go Swarm Host (or muta of course).
I think the unit is not well design because you cant use it unless you all in with it.
swarm hosts need tog et figured out still right now noone knows how to really use them effectively and unit stats havent settles at all plus your playing 2v2 What do you mean by Tog ? 1v1 GM zerg dont use Swarm host. They keep with Hydra/roach/Viper. Sometime Muta vs terran because those styles are simple and easy to understand noone has (mainly because theres not been enough time) figured out how to use swarm hosts, once HoTS goes live and the Korean think tank looks at swarm hosts expect to see them used more Why do you assume swarm host is a good unit and nobody figured out how to use them ? You could say that if you were playing at very high lvl and be very successfull with them.
http://evilgeniuses.net/idra-and-demuslim-talk-hots/
relevant part
IdrA: I haven’t used it too much, I feel it was too weak, but with the HP buff it probably has a place. However, it’s the kind of unit that requires more experience to use effectively. It’s very easy to go Roach/Hydra and then mix in Vipers, or to use the new Ultra. Those are very simple things to do. So, Swarm Hosts may be okay as they are; it will just take more time for people to learn their role in the game. I do like the concept of a Zerg siege unit. It’s something we were definitely missing.
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I just posted this in the bnet forums, but seems relevant here as well:
So, the general consensus seems to be that swarm hosts are garbage and totally useless in zvt. However, I just played an EPIC hour long ZvT with swarm hosts, and I think maybe I figured out a good way to use them in the match-up.
The basic strategy:
-sit on 2 base and get a quick lair.
-Mass swarm hosts until you have 8-10/you feel you can comfortably defend your third. Should also be upgrading hosts.
-continue massing swarm hosts and start massing static defense around the hosts.
-slow push with swarm hosts, spines, spores, queens, and creep, while teching to hive (i went for ultra, but brood would work too.)
-win (an hour later.)
Obviously, my opponent and I were both plat, so we are pretty bad. But it seemed to work pretty well. It is strong because the static defense/queens protect the swarm hosts during their cool down, and locusts dominate pretty much anything on the ground. This style is, however, REALLY weak to drops. The game I played had a lot of base trading...
Oh, and here is a replay:
http://drop.sc/294734
Discuss?
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Sorry but if you wait to take your third until after you have 8-10 swarm hosts but then use them defensively, you are going to fall behind in economy you shouldn't have any chance of winning any game at a higher level
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On January 14 2013 16:02 EvanC wrote:
Sorry but if you wait to take your third until after you have 8-10 swarm hosts but then use them defensively, you are going to fall behind in economy you shouldn't have any chance of winning any game at a higher level
players at a higher level wont have to wait for 8-10 swarm hosts to take there third though...
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On January 14 2013 16:02 EvanC wrote:
Sorry but if you wait to take your third until after you have 8-10 swarm hosts but then use them defensively, you are going to fall behind in economy you shouldn't have any chance of winning any game at a higher level
Well, sure. I am bad, like I said in my post. My opponent was bad. What I thought was interesting was the slow push with swarm hosts, queens, and static defense. I could be wrong, and it could be totally uninteresting. I included a replay.
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Lol. Just don't cry that Swarm Hosts are bad, just don't.
They absolutely shut down mech play (as much as Vipers). Even good zergs admit that.
Even players like Bomber got beaten by swarm hosts when he went mech, so no, they are not bad. Just know when to make them.
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On January 14 2013 08:44 Parodoxx wrote:Show nested quote +On January 14 2013 07:27 Ramiz1989 wrote:On January 14 2013 01:11 Breach_hu wrote:On January 13 2013 03:46 Existor wrote:On January 13 2013 03:42 BaDMannerS wrote:
You are wasting your time to try to counter such imbalanced unit, guys. I see good counters here, but none of them includes dealing with the damn huge mass of simultaneous spawn form a huge distance. How the hell are we supposed to reach the imbacusts? Outdrop him? 2 widows can clear half of the locusts. Sieges can do that too Please drop those ridicolous sentences like "2 widows can clear the half of the locusts" , they are flat out lies. If the Z uses SH's good, they you cant touch the Zerg with mech. I had a game where 10 SH tanked around 20tanks for like 2-3 minutes on a ramp. I think you got your numbers mixed, 10 Tanks managed to stop 20 Swarm Hosts, not the other way around, it is just not possible, since it was a ramp. I can agree that its possible to hold off a tank contain at your ramp for a good amount of time with swarm host done it many times. Why do people think swarm host are bad the unit is just fine.
I don't think that they are bad, but what he said is exaggeration. I've seen 15+ Swarm Hosts getting shutdown by 7-10 Siege Tanks, and by shutdown I mean that Locusts don't even come close to your army. I can't imagine that 10 Swarm Hosts stop 20 Siege Tanks, and even worse thing is that he said on a ramp where Locusts are always clumped up and like 4-5 Tanks would kill all of the Locusts.
About the unit, I don't think that it is bad unit at all, just a bit different and difficult to use since you have to commit to it way too much if you want to do damage. But we still didn't see anything about this unit, Pro players rarely use them, so we can't really judge yet.
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Some units just take longer for people to learn how to use them correctly, SH is one of them.
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lurker was better because they prevented this "a move over them" because you would lose everything, swarm hosts not seems working right yet
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On January 14 2013 21:31 CoR wrote:
lurker was better because they prevented this "a move over them" because you would lose everything, swarm hosts not seems working right yet
Not really, Lurkers and Swarm Hosts are different kind of units. They shouldn't be used the same way. And Lurkers wouldn't work at all btw with units like Marauders/Immortals/Roaches/Colossi, Lurkers wouldn't stop anything from a-clicking them.
The same way Dragoons and non-sieged Tanks were really good vs. Lurkers in Brood War.
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United Kingdom2950 Posts
Anyone watching Zenio using Swarm Hosts ZvP right now? So sick! Repositioning after every two spawns or so and going to force a cancel or harass on another expo. Awesome!
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Ok so I have a changed mind about the swarmhost.
I played Thorzain today and I used swarmhosts vs bio and I have to say I am very impressed. I am not a fan of them vs mech, but vs bio they have a place. They did a great job at defending + being aggressive and had him contained to 2 bases (unfortunately I did not see his army move around my 4'th and then he took out my third + 4'th which then I ended up losing as he killed my swarmhosts when I sent my whole army back to defend xD).
But that game showed me just how viable they are. I only had between 10-15 and I definitely wasn't all in (I was getting double upgrades but melee/carapace not ranged). i then switched into ultras and like I said I should have won but made 2 big blunders that ended up being enough for him to take the win.
Either way I think they are viable zvt at least vs bio, I know they are vs mech but I prefer fast hive into vipers as that is stronger imo.
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Russian Federation4295 Posts
Sounds nice. Can you provide vods or replays? Will be interesting to see 
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On January 15 2013 14:24 Existor wrote:Sounds nice. Can you provide vods or replays? Will be interesting to see
http://www.mediafire.com/?7ri4drndclb6p96
Can watch mine or thorzains vod for first person view.
I think going muta - swarmhost will be better though due to how strong drops are with light speed medivacs :D
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Russian Federation4295 Posts
Thank you! Only one replay? What about more? Just interesting to see more usage of swarm hosts
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On January 15 2013 14:35 Existor wrote:
Thank you! Only one replay? What about more? Just interesting to see more usage of swarm hosts
So far it's been hard to test this against more bio players cause all the bio players I am playing are to be blunt playing really retarded lol. Like they are just doing stupid stuff so I kill them either before I get the chance due to their push being pre swarmhost or they make 10 tanks with marines blindly so I don't go swarmhost and just crush them with fast ultra.
xD
Trying to test more but yeah hopefully more soon. I am only doing hte zvt ones cause zvp one isn't one worth looking at either due to how the game went ^^.
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On January 15 2013 14:26 blade55555 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 15 2013 14:24 Existor wrote:Sounds nice. Can you provide vods or replays? Will be interesting to see http://www.mediafire.com/?7ri4drndclb6p96Can watch mine or thorzains vod for first person view. I think going muta - swarmhost will be better though due to how strong drops are with light speed medivacs :D
Very nice, will watch the replay later. Btw, I was always thinking about that, and saw Mutas -> Swarm Hosts switch by Dimaga in the early stages of the Beta, he destroyed BRAT_OK with it. BRAT_OK went for few Thors to counter early Mutas, and then he didn't have answers for Swarm Hosts, but back then Swarm Hosts were OP as hell. xD
But to be honest, 10-15 Swarm Hosts is pretty large investment.
On January 15 2013 02:16 Wunder wrote:
Anyone watching Zenio using Swarm Hosts ZvP right now? So sick! Repositioning after every two spawns or so and going to force a cancel or harass on another expo. Awesome!
Do you maybe have a VOD? It would be great if you do.
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EPT
