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Me opinion is, swarhost is in this time usable only in zvz , many poeple writing free unit ? WTF ? 2 locust for 150/100 is free ? MMM in teran jast kill all locust and next time swarmhost an zerg lost many money and is gg, invisible swarmhost ? what problem teran have many scaners protos have 2 type of detektor, no problem. In my opinion buff swarm host is not posible. Maby blizzard with hard Buff MMM prepar for switch swarmhost with lurker  ) And i wonder what blizzard make with coruptor , coruptor is good unit for kiling colosus or antyair and but is a dedicated for one reason. And i dont understant why broodlord is MUTATED from coruptor and not from MUTALISK. Sc1 had beeter designers team or what ? in sc2 is many unlogical things ) Maby why not is posible with roach go under buildings ? (I nou this is OP but unlogikcal ) ) or haw is posible zergling veri thin unit is stiped with vall with facing big hole )) GL HF and Blizzard please change boring swarmhost with samthning better thx )
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swarmhosts are fine
infact: swarmhost +hydra+overseer is impossible to kill by protoss unless they catch you unburrowed
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Swarm hosts are positional units that FORCE opponents to draw units to that particular area. With that in mind, you can actually thin enemy forces out without LOSING RESOURCES. Not to mention, they are supposed to be unburrowed after they spawn a wave of locusts. I don't understand why there are complaints about losing swarm hosts to banshee counter, etc. They are support SIEGE breakers and to be optimally used with the main army with locusts as BUFFER units that draws DAMAGE AWAY from the main army. I don't get why people are using them as ultimate army killers.
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On December 14 2012 23:14 ohampatu wrote:
swarmhosts are fine
infact: swarmhost +hydra+overseer is impossible to kill by protoss unless they catch you unburrowed
colossus or blinkstalker into storm or just airplay deals with it very fine. in fact so fine that you should never go SH in the first place. sad but true, they are pretty much bad in all 3 MUs in their current state. they need to nerf their hp again and buff locust hp a lot so it actually can do what all people here suggest: draw fire for your acutal army. right now they draw 2 tankshots or 2 colossusshots or 1 storm and thats it.
so increase locust hp A LOT and if they become too strong nerf locust damage. as they were introduced by blizzard, blizzard stated: we want it to be a unit that sieges the opponent and slowly nibble at the opponents army/buildings and tank fire for the army.
and their solution was to do the exact opposite: making the locust a high DPS low hp thing instead of low DPS high hp which would do what they and we want.
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As a mid level player I find them tremendously useful. Burrow a handful of swarm hosts in a defensive position and you can often defend attacks you fail to even scout. It's like having free apm. 
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@descendos
Not if they get the burrow/siege on you and contain you to 3 bases. If you dont move out before they siege you up, then you just can't break it. There is no way to see the swarmhosts with that specific comp. Half of the blizzard forums are protoss asking how to break it. Its possible, but only if your opponent mishandles his hydra and overseers. You can try to blind build order counter it but then lose to alot of other builds. Its not nearly as easy as your making it out to be.
In zvt and zvz i dont see it very often though
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On December 14 2012 23:35 Decendos wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2012 23:14 ohampatu wrote:
swarmhosts are fine
infact: swarmhost +hydra+overseer is impossible to kill by protoss unless they catch you unburrowed colossus or blinkstalker into storm or just airplay deals with it very fine. in fact so fine that you should never go SH in the first place. sad but true, they are pretty much bad in all 3 MUs in their current state. they need to nerf their hp again and buff locust hp a lot so it actually can do what all people here suggest: draw fire for your acutal army. right now they draw 2 tankshots or 2 colossusshots or 1 storm and thats it.
I don't understand why you're always arguing in a purely 1 unit type vs 1 unit type context. In any engagement, your SH should be supported by hydras/roaches. A typical protoss army at that point let's say would contain gateway heavy with robo support. If the blink occurs ontop of your swarm hosts, the enemy would be losing alot of support fire, since they would just melt under the hydra/roach fire. Unless of course, you're just massing SH and expect to beat a well balanced army, to which you should be refining your play instead of making baseless claims.
Also, @Decendos, do you actually own beta?
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On December 14 2012 23:38 ohampatu wrote:
@descendos
Not if they get the burrow/siege on you and contain you to 3 bases. If you dont move out before they siege you up, then you just can't break it. There is no way to see the swarmhosts with that specific comp. Half of the blizzard forums are protoss asking how to break it. Its possible, but only if your opponent mishandles his hydra and overseers. You can try to blind build order counter it but then lose to alot of other builds. Its not nearly as easy as your making it out to be.
In zvt and zvz i dont see it very often though
well i give you that they are good in midgame at a small timing window in which you just need to stay calm and defend. but things like 3 base colossus just can a-move that comp. same for mass blinkstalker + FFs + storm or just airplay on 3 base. i have yet to see a high level ZvP, ZvZ or ZvT where SHs did a really good job and not just the opponent reacting wrong or being way behind before SHs are even out.
@novacute: every roach and hydra you build is obv less SHs. and colossus counter SH, roaches and hydras, so do blinkstalker + FF + storm and so does 3 base airplay. i compared compositions with compositions and a SH compositions sucks at the moment in each MU.
and rofl yes i own it and i guess i play higher than you.
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Right and who in their right minds would continue building SHs if there were more than 1 collossus out in the field? In that case, you would stop building SHs and opt for more corruptors. Your arguements are largely biased and one dimensional, and it doesn't feel like you even understand the purpose of your units. I can see now why you 'supposedly play higher' than me.
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On December 14 2012 23:42 Decendos wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2012 23:38 ohampatu wrote:
@descendos
Not if they get the burrow/siege on you and contain you to 3 bases. If you dont move out before they siege you up, then you just can't break it. There is no way to see the swarmhosts with that specific comp. Half of the blizzard forums are protoss asking how to break it. Its possible, but only if your opponent mishandles his hydra and overseers. You can try to blind build order counter it but then lose to alot of other builds. Its not nearly as easy as your making it out to be.
In zvt and zvz i dont see it very often though well i give you that they are good in midgame at a small timing window in which you just need to stay calm and defend. but things like 3 base colossus just can a-move that comp. same for mass blinkstalker + FFs + storm or just airplay on 3 base. i have yet to see a high level ZvP, ZvZ or ZvT where SHs did a really good job and not just the opponent reacting wrong or being way behind before SHs are even out. @novacute: every roach and hydra you build is obv less SHs. and colossus counter SH, roaches and hydras, so do blinkstalker + FF + storm and so does 3 base airplay. i compared compositions with compositions and a SH compositions sucks at the moment in each MU. and rofl yes i own it and i guess i play higher than you.
corrupter?
infestor?
or do you seriously just max out 200 food on sh and come here to complain?
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On December 14 2012 23:51 a176 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2012 23:42 Decendos wrote:On December 14 2012 23:38 ohampatu wrote:
@descendos
Not if they get the burrow/siege on you and contain you to 3 bases. If you dont move out before they siege you up, then you just can't break it. There is no way to see the swarmhosts with that specific comp. Half of the blizzard forums are protoss asking how to break it. Its possible, but only if your opponent mishandles his hydra and overseers. You can try to blind build order counter it but then lose to alot of other builds. Its not nearly as easy as your making it out to be.
In zvt and zvz i dont see it very often though well i give you that they are good in midgame at a small timing window in which you just need to stay calm and defend. but things like 3 base colossus just can a-move that comp. same for mass blinkstalker + FFs + storm or just airplay on 3 base. i have yet to see a high level ZvP, ZvZ or ZvT where SHs did a really good job and not just the opponent reacting wrong or being way behind before SHs are even out. @novacute: every roach and hydra you build is obv less SHs. and colossus counter SH, roaches and hydras, so do blinkstalker + FF + storm and so does 3 base airplay. i compared compositions with compositions and a SH compositions sucks at the moment in each MU. and rofl yes i own it and i guess i play higher than you. corrupter? infestor? or do you seriously just max out 200 food on sh and come here to complain?
I believe some people think massing a specific type of unit would just utterly crush everything there is out there. I guess they never received the note on the newly changed infestor.
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you wouldnt continue building SH. but why should you go SH if they start sucking hardcore once 2 colossus are out anyway? you just invested 300/300 in IP + locustupgrade and another say 2000/1000 in 10 SHs only to have that countered by 3 colossus? very bad deal. the problem with the SHs is that it is good at a small timing window but starts to get bad very fast so you dont want to build any in the first place. i hope that clears come stuff up.
oh and btw if you have any high level VODs or replays in which SHs got used well i would love to see them and i have no problem to say i was wrong if SH is actually useful.
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On December 14 2012 23:53 Decendos wrote:
you wouldnt continue building SH. but why should you go SH if they start sucking hardcore once 2 colossus are out anyway? you just invested 300/300 in IP + locustupgrade and another say 2000/1000 in 10 SHs only to have that countered by 3 colossus? very bad deal. the problem with the SHs is that it is good at a small timing window but starts to get bad very fast so you dont want to build any in the first place. i hope that clears come stuff up.
oh and btw if you have any high level VODs or replays in which SHs got used well i would love to see them and i have no problem to say i was wrong if SH is actually useful.
Isn't 'countering a certain composition the bread and butter of most RTSs? With more collossus, u stop SH and build corruptors. Once collossus is out of the play, you continue building swarm hosts? The point is, this is a rock,papper scissors game. You build counters, they build counter and it goes around. Oh yeah, i forgot to mention, locusts are INVALUABLE in soaking storm damage. I suggest always keeping a few to mitigate the stoms that would otherwise affect your main army which is why i still say that swarm hosts are still quite useful and not only used for timing attacks. And nah i'm not really interested in watching replays, i'd rather try it out myself in wood league eh. As for my own vod, i don't really use SH as much, i usually open ling heavy with transition into a couple of shs, infestors and aim for an ultra end game. Ultras are great.
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okay. srsly. its about countering but you know if one thing counters another thing way too good like colossus or blink + FF + storm or airplay does with SH + roach hydra you dont want to get that composition in the first place. lets say it this way:
SH force a reaction but for their supply and mineral + gas cost they are countered too easily and therefore not even closely cost efficient so you dont want to get them in the first place.
a drastic example: imagine a marine would cost 1000 minerals. if you get 50 marines then toss will have to make colossus. now you can add vikings to counter that colossus but since your investment in 50 marines was way too high in the first place you wont go marines in the first place. its the same thing with SHs right now (obv. not as drastic).
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Swarm Hosts are pretty horrible immobile and still weak.
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On December 14 2012 23:36 gruff wrote:As a mid level player I find them tremendously useful. Burrow a handful of swarm hosts in a defensive position and you can often defend attacks you fail to even scout. It's like having free apm.
Swarm Hosts are a bit too expensive for that. What saddens me is that swarm hosts are very weak fora siege unit they are a joke compared to a colossus or siege tank and cost alot. And another problem is that locusts are blocked by your own army so you can never use a army to protect your swarm hosts.
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Well, i agree but they way they made it now, the SH has very limited roles and is supposed to be a siege breaker. I think the main problem lies in the whole unit design. So tweaking stats may not necessarily help. Just a food for thought.
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What's the issue with forcing the oracle to stay at home and defend withthe energy he could be melting your drones with? To me free locust vs oracle seems effective. Your thread will be closed because it provokes no interesting discussion and there clearly wasn't much thought or effort put into it. All you are doing is listing a few viable counters to a unit and complaining that swarm host doesn't kill everything with 0 effort. Just support your swarmhost with other T2 zerg and you can win games.
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There really is no viable composition for Swarm Hosts. I'd actually argue that Swarm Hosts are almost as bad as Roaches are late game due to their high supply cost for what they do. Even if I have 8 Swarm Hosts late game that's 24 supply that I can't put towards 4 Ultras, 12 Hydras, or even Infestors or Vipers.
Swarm Hosts have such a niche use in ZvP it's almost as bad as WoL Hydras. You can't use them if P goes air. You can't use them if P goes HT. you can't use them if P goes Robo. So I guess that just leaves gateway timings?
And I don't know if its because I'm at diamond level (haven't really played enough to get to masters) but I have yet to see a Zerg player use them effectively against me in ZvZ either.
The funniest part was that Swarm Hosts were hyped up by Blizzard to be this siege breaking unit (see the blizzcon video where a few Swarm Hosts breaks a poorly defended Terran wall that's defended by a bunker and a couple siege tanks) and yet Terran has the easiest time defending against Swarm Hosts I feel with siege tanks(lol), medivacs, hellbats, and simple kiting.
There are simply better Zerg compositions out there right now that DON'T use Swarm Hosts and that's the problem I feel with Swarm Hosts. What incentive is there for Zerg to use Swarm Host when roach/hydra/viper rules ZvP and ZvT(mech), and ling/bling, ultra/Viper works in ZvT(bio)?
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When I started playing the Beta I used a lot of Swarm Hosts but now I scarcly use them at all. Yes, they are a nice unit with uniqe strenghts and weaknesses but they do cost way too much and are not as useful as Tanks or Colossus. I feel that they need a redesign before HotS starts.
Now they are like, most already said, just a niche unit which can be replaced by way better options.
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EPT
