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On December 11 2012 11:41 Zergrusher wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2012 11:38 Serpico wrote:On December 11 2012 11:19 Zergrusher wrote:On December 11 2012 11:11 Serpico wrote:
Or we can just put the lurker back in and tweak its attack to to not hurt the precious death balls too much. But didn't dustin say the lurker overlapse with the roach and baneling? and now it will overlap with the swarm host? It's supposed to take out the roach and the swarm host. Have the hydra replace the roach since the hydra has no role. Hydralisk have a role, supportive, ranged DPS/ AA All they have to do for the hydralisks is 2 things 1) Ud-do the 2 nerfs the hydralisk got in WOL's beta( the nerfs are the biggest problem) 2) Removed grooved spines and increase range to 6
supportive ranged dps/aa? So basically incredibly situational. Like it's always been in WoL. The roach is a boring unit that doesn't really do anything interesting. It would reduce the amount of bad units in the game and give a classic one a place.
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On December 11 2012 11:17 Zergrusher wrote:the forums complain about anything, and hey look the broodlord and infestor, they both spawn free units at a faster rate then the swarm host ever can. This is different.
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On December 11 2012 10:10 Zergrusher wrote:
what they should have is that unborrowing and then RE burrowing a swarm host re-sets the spawn timer of the locust.
think of the micro possibilities
I think this is a great idea, and would make swarm hosts more skill-based. To balance this, the unburrow and/or burrow speed could be increased a bit to make it still beneficial to re-burrow, but not 4-times faster like it would be now. Tweak those numbers and it could be what hosts need. Remember that hosts above ground are vulnerable... so it wouldn't be safe to do this with a fast army or air units/detection nearby.
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On December 11 2012 15:51 ElMeanYo wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2012 10:10 Zergrusher wrote:
what they should have is that unborrowing and then RE burrowing a swarm host re-sets the spawn timer of the locust.
think of the micro possibilities I think this is a great idea, and would make swarm hosts more skill-based. To balance this, the unburrow and/or burrow speed could be increased a bit to make it still beneficial to re-burrow, but not 4-times faster like it would be now. Tweak those numbers and it could be what hosts need. Remember that hosts above ground are vulnerable... so it wouldn't be safe to do this with a fast army or air units/detection nearby.
Rofl ... just think about the abuse Zerg could have with this ... constantly burro/unburrow their SHs (doesnt matter how long it takes) and then have the free units simply swarm their opponent. At their super long life span thats easy to accomplish.
Terrible idea!
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They are alright, I just find it's not the kind of unit you can stay with for the entire game (Like the infestor).
Once a protoss hits critical mass Collossus, you are forced to use other options.
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I really dislike the swarm host.
It feels really un-zergy, especially compared to the Viper.
Right now it is more some sort of one trick pony.
The whole purpose of the swarm host is more or less an all-in, there is no transition etc. behind it.
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United Kingdom2950 Posts
Hi, I just lost a long game TvZ on Cloud Kingdom going mech vs Swarm Host/Hydra/Roach. He contained me effectively on 3 base while he took a 4th and presumably a 5th. I tried to harass by using hellions and transforming them into hellbats at the mineral line and I think I killed a good few drones, but I find it's so difficult to kill swarm hosts by themselves, let alone when they are protected by hydras. Should I just be massing banshee/raven and distract them with hellions and then going in to kill them when the hydras are out of position?
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On December 11 2012 17:03 Wunder wrote:
Hi, I just lost a long game TvZ on Cloud Kingdom going mech vs Swarm Host/Hydra/Roach. He contained me effectively on 3 base while he took a 4th and presumably a 5th. I tried to harass by using hellions and transforming them into hellbats at the mineral line and I think I killed a good few drones, but I find it's so difficult to kill swarm hosts by themselves, let alone when they are protected by hydras. Should I just be massing banshee/raven and distract them with hellions and then going in to kill them when the hydras are out of position?
Tanks. Lots of them.
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On December 10 2012 01:17 RandomMan wrote:Show nested quote +drA recanted on his statement following additional play with them. He ended up getting owned by roach/hydra infestor many games in a row going for that strategy. I've been trying to work them into my play but, especially vs terran, I don't see them being effective honestly. Hellbat/maurader pushes are so damn strong at the moment (with healing and damage buff) that you risk losing to pushes if you don't rush to muta's. I can't say swarm host will be useless, however I see them being no more than very situational at this point. Zerg took a hard hit last patch on their T2 tech (only to get Hydra speed and health buff to SH) and I'm still trying to find a way to account for this.
P.S. oh and infestors are super cute now. They can tickle the enemy to death lol.....that is if they can actually hit them. Yes terrans are straight up OP now due to medivac and armory upgrades buff, but you seems to forget there are protoss... hydra muta compositions are very strong against toss (add in ultra in late game), hydra protect muta from phoenix while muta protect hydra from zealot colossus. And dont start saying SH are situational, there is simply no other units that are more situational than tempest and mothership thanks to the nerf. Now tempest just do well against 5.5 units, there are BC, BL, colossus, carrier, tempest (yeah it counter itself, basically the new tempest version of "who has the most colossus and whose muta get the first hit") and mothership (this is the 0.5 unit i mentioned, due to only able to build 1 per player, and also the patch 8 reduce it to a joke that maybe you will never see it again in any serious gameplay). EDIT: P.S. Oh, just because medivac now out heal fungal does not mean toss can do so either, and i do not recall any toss able to heal themselves during a battle in 1v1). You can still able to chain fungal if you able to land the first hit.
This wasn't about toss at all but your feedback is valued.
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On December 11 2012 16:31 Rabiator wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2012 15:51 ElMeanYo wrote:On December 11 2012 10:10 Zergrusher wrote:
what they should have is that unborrowing and then RE burrowing a swarm host re-sets the spawn timer of the locust.
think of the micro possibilities I think this is a great idea, and would make swarm hosts more skill-based. To balance this, the unburrow and/or burrow speed could be increased a bit to make it still beneficial to re-burrow, but not 4-times faster like it would be now. Tweak those numbers and it could be what hosts need. Remember that hosts above ground are vulnerable... so it wouldn't be safe to do this with a fast army or air units/detection nearby. Rofl ... just think about the abuse Zerg could have with this ... constantly burro/unburrow their SHs (doesnt matter how long it takes) and then have the free units simply swarm their opponent. At their super long life span thats easy to accomplish. Terrible idea!
No, great idea. They already get free units from the SH. This would just make them get those units slightly faster with good micro.
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On December 12 2012 00:54 ElMeanYo wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2012 16:31 Rabiator wrote:On December 11 2012 15:51 ElMeanYo wrote:On December 11 2012 10:10 Zergrusher wrote:
what they should have is that unborrowing and then RE burrowing a swarm host re-sets the spawn timer of the locust.
think of the micro possibilities I think this is a great idea, and would make swarm hosts more skill-based. To balance this, the unburrow and/or burrow speed could be increased a bit to make it still beneficial to re-burrow, but not 4-times faster like it would be now. Tweak those numbers and it could be what hosts need. Remember that hosts above ground are vulnerable... so it wouldn't be safe to do this with a fast army or air units/detection nearby. Rofl ... just think about the abuse Zerg could have with this ... constantly burro/unburrow their SHs (doesnt matter how long it takes) and then have the free units simply swarm their opponent. At their super long life span thats easy to accomplish. Terrible idea! No, great idea. They already get free units from the SH. This would just make them get those units slightly faster with good micro.
How is constant unburrow/burrow "good micro"? As it is now, you have time in between locust spawns to unburrow, move and burrow in another location, allowing for the SHs to be repositioned and allowing for interesting micro. Making optimal micro just burrow/unburrow in the same spot over and over again just seems really silly and stupid to me.
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On December 12 2012 01:04 JDub wrote:Show nested quote +On December 12 2012 00:54 ElMeanYo wrote:On December 11 2012 16:31 Rabiator wrote:On December 11 2012 15:51 ElMeanYo wrote:On December 11 2012 10:10 Zergrusher wrote:
what they should have is that unborrowing and then RE burrowing a swarm host re-sets the spawn timer of the locust.
think of the micro possibilities I think this is a great idea, and would make swarm hosts more skill-based. To balance this, the unburrow and/or burrow speed could be increased a bit to make it still beneficial to re-burrow, but not 4-times faster like it would be now. Tweak those numbers and it could be what hosts need. Remember that hosts above ground are vulnerable... so it wouldn't be safe to do this with a fast army or air units/detection nearby. Rofl ... just think about the abuse Zerg could have with this ... constantly burro/unburrow their SHs (doesnt matter how long it takes) and then have the free units simply swarm their opponent. At their super long life span thats easy to accomplish. Terrible idea! No, great idea. They already get free units from the SH. This would just make them get those units slightly faster with good micro. How is constant unburrow/burrow "good micro"? As it is now, you have time in between locust spawns to unburrow, move and burrow in another location, allowing for the SHs to be repositioned and allowing for interesting micro. Making optimal micro just burrow/unburrow in the same spot over and over again just seems really silly and stupid to me.
Because there is a risk involved of exposing your swarm hosts. Also keep in mind that once you reburrow, you have to re-set the locust waypoints. Plus adding this on top of all the other things you have to do in this game.
If you really think this would be too easy, then make it so that you not only have to burrow/unborrow, you also have to move the host at least a bit to reset the timer.
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On December 12 2012 01:14 ElMeanYo wrote:Show nested quote +On December 12 2012 01:04 JDub wrote:On December 12 2012 00:54 ElMeanYo wrote:On December 11 2012 16:31 Rabiator wrote:On December 11 2012 15:51 ElMeanYo wrote:On December 11 2012 10:10 Zergrusher wrote:
what they should have is that unborrowing and then RE burrowing a swarm host re-sets the spawn timer of the locust.
think of the micro possibilities I think this is a great idea, and would make swarm hosts more skill-based. To balance this, the unburrow and/or burrow speed could be increased a bit to make it still beneficial to re-burrow, but not 4-times faster like it would be now. Tweak those numbers and it could be what hosts need. Remember that hosts above ground are vulnerable... so it wouldn't be safe to do this with a fast army or air units/detection nearby. Rofl ... just think about the abuse Zerg could have with this ... constantly burro/unburrow their SHs (doesnt matter how long it takes) and then have the free units simply swarm their opponent. At their super long life span thats easy to accomplish. Terrible idea! No, great idea. They already get free units from the SH. This would just make them get those units slightly faster with good micro. How is constant unburrow/burrow "good micro"? As it is now, you have time in between locust spawns to unburrow, move and burrow in another location, allowing for the SHs to be repositioned and allowing for interesting micro. Making optimal micro just burrow/unburrow in the same spot over and over again just seems really silly and stupid to me. Because there is a risk involved of exposing your swarm hosts. Also keep in mind that once you reburrow, you have to re-set the locust waypoints. Plus adding this on top of all the other things you have to do in this game. If you really think this would be too easy, then make it so that you not only have to burrow/unborrow, you also have to move the host at least a bit to reset the timer.
This is just a stupid suggestion.
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On December 11 2012 16:55 Schroedinger wrote:
I really dislike the swarm host.
It feels really un-zergy, especially compared to the Viper.
Right now it is more some sort of one trick pony.
The whole purpose of the swarm host is more or less an all-in, there is no transition etc. behind it.
Sort of. They can be used really well to capitalize on an (economic) advantage in the mid game. Instead of running 20 roaches to the front door or busting down the wall with banelings, you can do "free" damage with SHs.
The problems people seem to have using them either stems from massing them in the face of a "perfect" counter, like banshees, or making 2-3 of them and expecting them to do serious damage.
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I propose a change to Swarm Hosts. Instead of spawning units they shoot a few of them into the air, they fall in a straight line from the Swarm Host up to half a screen away and each locust does damage in a small AoE (about 3 marines standing next to each other)... yes I want fucking Lurkers back and removal of this stupid new unit!!
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On December 12 2012 01:42 Markwerf wrote:Show nested quote +On December 12 2012 01:14 ElMeanYo wrote:On December 12 2012 01:04 JDub wrote:On December 12 2012 00:54 ElMeanYo wrote:On December 11 2012 16:31 Rabiator wrote:On December 11 2012 15:51 ElMeanYo wrote:On December 11 2012 10:10 Zergrusher wrote:
what they should have is that unborrowing and then RE burrowing a swarm host re-sets the spawn timer of the locust.
think of the micro possibilities I think this is a great idea, and would make swarm hosts more skill-based. To balance this, the unburrow and/or burrow speed could be increased a bit to make it still beneficial to re-burrow, but not 4-times faster like it would be now. Tweak those numbers and it could be what hosts need. Remember that hosts above ground are vulnerable... so it wouldn't be safe to do this with a fast army or air units/detection nearby. Rofl ... just think about the abuse Zerg could have with this ... constantly burro/unburrow their SHs (doesnt matter how long it takes) and then have the free units simply swarm their opponent. At their super long life span thats easy to accomplish. Terrible idea! No, great idea. They already get free units from the SH. This would just make them get those units slightly faster with good micro. How is constant unburrow/burrow "good micro"? As it is now, you have time in between locust spawns to unburrow, move and burrow in another location, allowing for the SHs to be repositioned and allowing for interesting micro. Making optimal micro just burrow/unburrow in the same spot over and over again just seems really silly and stupid to me. Because there is a risk involved of exposing your swarm hosts. Also keep in mind that once you reburrow, you have to re-set the locust waypoints. Plus adding this on top of all the other things you have to do in this game. If you really think this would be too easy, then make it so that you not only have to burrow/unborrow, you also have to move the host at least a bit to reset the timer. This is just a stupid suggestion.
And this is just a stupid post.
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It's a bad suggestion. There's no "micro" involved in it, just mindless spamming.
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On December 11 2012 11:58 Serpico wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2012 11:41 Zergrusher wrote:On December 11 2012 11:38 Serpico wrote:On December 11 2012 11:19 Zergrusher wrote:On December 11 2012 11:11 Serpico wrote:
Or we can just put the lurker back in and tweak its attack to to not hurt the precious death balls too much. But didn't dustin say the lurker overlapse with the roach and baneling? and now it will overlap with the swarm host? It's supposed to take out the roach and the swarm host. Have the hydra replace the roach since the hydra has no role. Hydralisk have a role, supportive, ranged DPS/ AA All they have to do for the hydralisks is 2 things 1) Ud-do the 2 nerfs the hydralisk got in WOL's beta( the nerfs are the biggest problem) 2) Removed grooved spines and increase range to 6 supportive ranged dps/aa? So basically incredibly situational. Like it's always been in WoL. The roach is a boring unit that doesn't really do anything interesting. It would reduce the amount of bad units in the game and give a classic one a place.
Hydralisk won't be situational any more if Blizzard does what I've been suggesting for 2 years.
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On December 12 2012 01:14 ElMeanYo wrote:Show nested quote +On December 12 2012 01:04 JDub wrote:On December 12 2012 00:54 ElMeanYo wrote:On December 11 2012 16:31 Rabiator wrote:On December 11 2012 15:51 ElMeanYo wrote:On December 11 2012 10:10 Zergrusher wrote:
what they should have is that unborrowing and then RE burrowing a swarm host re-sets the spawn timer of the locust.
think of the micro possibilities I think this is a great idea, and would make swarm hosts more skill-based. To balance this, the unburrow and/or burrow speed could be increased a bit to make it still beneficial to re-burrow, but not 4-times faster like it would be now. Tweak those numbers and it could be what hosts need. Remember that hosts above ground are vulnerable... so it wouldn't be safe to do this with a fast army or air units/detection nearby. Rofl ... just think about the abuse Zerg could have with this ... constantly burro/unburrow their SHs (doesnt matter how long it takes) and then have the free units simply swarm their opponent. At their super long life span thats easy to accomplish. Terrible idea! No, great idea. They already get free units from the SH. This would just make them get those units slightly faster with good micro. How is constant unburrow/burrow "good micro"? As it is now, you have time in between locust spawns to unburrow, move and burrow in another location, allowing for the SHs to be repositioned and allowing for interesting micro. Making optimal micro just burrow/unburrow in the same spot over and over again just seems really silly and stupid to me. Because there is a risk involved of exposing your swarm hosts. Also keep in mind that once you reburrow, you have to re-set the locust waypoints. Plus adding this on top of all the other things you have to do in this game. If you really think this would be too easy, then make it so that you not only have to burrow/unborrow, you also have to move the host at least a bit to reset the timer.
the simple act of moving your units is not micro
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EPT
