On December 07 2012 09:26 Destructicon wrote: snip
Why does every man and his dog seem entitled to give long-winded and exhaustive analysis of patch notes? Not even Flash himself would be able to accurately predict the far-reaching impacts of this combination of changes on the game and race interactions.
Some changes could cancel each other out, some could open new possibilities for movement, map control and aggression at various points. Others could prove powerful at different stages of the game. We just. Can't. Know.
The point is, we cannot fucking know the impact of changes until we actually play with them for a long time. There is absolutely no point in criticising them or lauding them until they have been subjected to extensive testing by the highest level of players.
Sorry to shit on your parade, you obviously put effort into your post, but it could have been used better elsewhere.
On December 07 2012 09:26 Destructicon wrote: snip
Why does every man and his dog seem entitled to give long-winded and exhaustive analysis of patch notes? Not even Flash himself would be able to accurately predict the far-reaching impacts of this combination of changes on the game and race interactions.
Some changes could cancel each other out, some could open new possibilities for movement, map control and aggression at various points. Others could prove powerful at different stages of the game. We just. Can't. Know.
The point is, we cannot fucking know the impact of changes until we actually play with them for a long time. There is absolutely no point in criticising them or lauding them until they have been subjected to extensive testing by the highest level of players.
Sorry to shit on your parade, you obviously put effort into your post, but it could have been used better elsewhere.
Isn't the point of your post to point out that such analysis is useless until the highest of players have tested it out repeatedly in games? If this is so why do you say.
but it could have been used better elsewhere
If your above statement is accurate then this one would mean it couldn't be used anywhere really and that his post was irrelevant.
Also in conjunction with your point to his, this line turns out very very funny.
Edit: Damn this was long, it probably deserves to be posted on B.net and maybe even Reddit to see what kind of reaction and what thoughts this stirs. Also, added spoilers, thanks for the advice.
Over all though thanks for sharing your thoughts on the patch, I didn't feel it was necessary either but it was interesting to read another perspective.
On December 07 2012 09:26 Destructicon wrote: snip
Why does every man and his dog seem entitled to give long-winded and exhaustive analysis of patch notes? Not even Flash himself would be able to accurately predict the far-reaching impacts of this combination of changes on the game and race interactions.
Some changes could cancel each other out, some could open new possibilities for movement, map control and aggression at various points. Others could prove powerful at different stages of the game. We just. Can't. Know.
The point is, we cannot fucking know the impact of changes until we actually play with them for a long time. There is absolutely no point in criticising them or lauding them until they have been subjected to extensive testing by the highest level of players.
Sorry to shit on your parade, you obviously put effort into your post, but it could have been used better elsewhere.
Isn't the point of your post to point out that such analysis is useless until the highest of players have tested it out repeatedly in games? If this is so why do you say.
On December 07 2012 09:26 Destructicon wrote: I don't get this one, they said they want to make late game DTs more viable without making DT rushes stronger, this kind of does the opposite since the shrine will get build a bit faster due to the availability of gas earlier or you'll have more units due to being able to spend gas in other areas. It also has no impact on late game DTs apart from a reduction to a one time cost. A DT upgrade at the shrine would have been better. So this is just weird more then anything.
I don't think dt rushes will hit much faster, maybe a few seconds if P does an 11 gate or something silly, but they'll be safer to execute. You could already jump straight from core->TC->DS without delay if you timed your gas right, but now the openings should have more transition potential because of the conserved resources. I guess that's interesting? The way detection has been shuffled for z, I really don't see it making that much of a difference.
Anyway, holy shit. That, ladies and gentlemen, is a patch.
On December 07 2012 09:26 Destructicon wrote: snip
Why does every man and his dog seem entitled to give long-winded and exhaustive analysis of patch notes? Not even Flash himself would be able to accurately predict the far-reaching impacts of this combination of changes on the game and race interactions.
Some changes could cancel each other out, some could open new possibilities for movement, map control and aggression at various points. Others could prove powerful at different stages of the game. We just. Can't. Know.
The point is, we cannot fucking know the impact of changes until we actually play with them for a long time. There is absolutely no point in criticising them or lauding them until they have been subjected to extensive testing by the highest level of players.
Sorry to shit on your parade, you obviously put effort into your post, but it could have been used better elsewhere.
Isn't the point of your post to point out that such analysis is useless until the highest of players have tested it out repeatedly in games? If this is so why do you say.
but it could have been used better elsewhere
If your above statement is accurate then this one would mean it couldn't be used anywhere really and that his post was irrelevant.
He could have put the effort that he put into his post into something else in life, or a post about something else completely.
And yes, his post is largely irrelevant.
As opposed to say, posting smaller things to claim he's wasting his time and not doing so?
Starcraft is a strategy game with mechanical difficulty in terms of execution. Thinking about strategy is not a worthless activity, indeed it's pretty productive
On December 07 2012 09:26 Destructicon wrote: snip
Why does every man and his dog seem entitled to give long-winded and exhaustive analysis of patch notes? Not even Flash himself would be able to accurately predict the far-reaching impacts of this combination of changes on the game and race interactions.
Some changes could cancel each other out, some could open new possibilities for movement, map control and aggression at various points. Others could prove powerful at different stages of the game. We just. Can't. Know.
The point is, we cannot fucking know the impact of changes until we actually play with them for a long time. There is absolutely no point in criticising them or lauding them until they have been subjected to extensive testing by the highest level of players.
Sorry to shit on your parade, you obviously put effort into your post, but it could have been used better elsewhere.
Isn't the point of your post to point out that such analysis is useless until the highest of players have tested it out repeatedly in games? If this is so why do you say.
but it could have been used better elsewhere
If your above statement is accurate then this one would mean it couldn't be used anywhere really and that his post was irrelevant.
He could have put the effort that he put into his post into something else in life, or a post about something else completely.
And yes, his post is largely irrelevant.
As opposed to say, posting smaller things to claim he's wasting his time and not doing so?
Starcraft is a strategy game with mechanical difficulty in terms of execution. Thinking about strategy is not a worthless activity, indeed it's pretty productive
I completely agree, but it's still pretty annoying when people give these analysis(ese?) of the patch notes, and make claims about exactly what changes are going to do. You can theorycraft and entertain potential new strategies or even potential new builds, possibly. But don't make claims like you know what X is going to do. He wrote that entire thing without asking one single question about what these changes might do, about a ton of changes he has never played! How does one not have any questions about something they've never played with?
On December 07 2012 01:20 larse wrote: The power of the new medivac + bio
That is stupid, even before you didn't attack into mass bio with mass medivac without AOE Damage unit like HT with storms (completely melting BIO before the patch... and STILL) as well as a colossi (lol so many marines, 2 colossi shots and everything dies). So stop whining and think about it.
By the time i have 12 (TWELFE!) medivacs protoss easily has 5 Colossi. Guess what they do to mass marines ? Yes you are right, its imba -_-
On December 07 2012 09:26 Destructicon wrote: snip
Why does every man and his dog seem entitled to give long-winded and exhaustive analysis of patch notes? Not even Flash himself would be able to accurately predict the far-reaching impacts of this combination of changes on the game and race interactions.
Some changes could cancel each other out, some could open new possibilities for movement, map control and aggression at various points. Others could prove powerful at different stages of the game. We just. Can't. Know.
The point is, we cannot fucking know the impact of changes until we actually play with them for a long time. There is absolutely no point in criticising them or lauding them until they have been subjected to extensive testing by the highest level of players.
Sorry to shit on your parade, you obviously put effort into your post, but it could have been used better elsewhere.
Isn't the point of your post to point out that such analysis is useless until the highest of players have tested it out repeatedly in games? If this is so why do you say.
but it could have been used better elsewhere
If your above statement is accurate then this one would mean it couldn't be used anywhere really and that his post was irrelevant.
He could have put the effort that he put into his post into something else in life, or a post about something else completely.
And yes, his post is largely irrelevant.
As opposed to say, posting smaller things to claim he's wasting his time and not doing so?
Starcraft is a strategy game with mechanical difficulty in terms of execution. Thinking about strategy is not a worthless activity, indeed it's pretty productive
He isnt thinking about strategy as much as he and countless others with similar useless posts on here, reddit and b.net forums are just outright judging the changes and making conclusions about what the state of balance will be.
Its unhelpful, useless and detrimental to any valuable discourse about the game.
Yeah, mass marines with 9 medivac support is not something I would ever engage with stalkers. Increase the number of medivacs by 50% (maybe one with no energy for the half? lol, not sure how to deal with that) and then try it without the upgrade, I expect it will be about the same story.
The great thing is that medivacs are now less common in the early midgame, which is a huge boost to Toss but they are better, particularly in the late game, so it tries to fix the terrible balance the matchup has where both sides are imba, just at different points of the game.
I like a lot of these changes, but I'm a little put off by the Seeker Missile.
Single target damage just isn't interesting from a micro point of view. Anybody can cast a spell and hit a high priority target at 10 range -_-. What made seeker missile interesting is that you had to target the dense clumps in your opponents forces. I would greatly prefer even just a 1+ spell cast range upgrade to this change. Really just not as interesting...
On December 07 2012 11:04 TheFrankOne wrote: Yeah, mass marines with 9 medivac support is not something I would ever engage with stalkers. Increase the number of medivacs by 50% (maybe one with no energy for the half? lol, not sure how to deal with that) and then try it without the upgrade, I expect it will be about the same story.
The great thing is that medivacs are now less common in the early midgame, which is a huge boost to Toss but they are better, particularly in the late game, so it tries to fix the terrible balance the matchup has where both sides are imba, just at different points of the game.
How so ? The Upgrade is more expensive but not the Medivac. You can still build Medivacs for 100/100 from a Reactor and get the Upgrade later on.
This patch is brilliant. David Kim is the man. Hopefully all the haters who've been ignorantly shooting their mouths off will see that there's been a lot going on behind the scenes and "fixing" the game is not as simple as they think.
Down to the medivac energy upgrade. It's only use was to fake cloak before, and now it'll be an upgrade players get everygame. Except maybe for mech, but even hellbats are GOOD. Especially so with this buff.
Playing random on the ladder is going to be TIIIIIIIIIGHT.
EPT
