HotS balance update #8 - Page 88

Great for multitasking and drops, a good player can do so much now to save them, also even with the speed increase for mutas, a turbo medivac will still be able to outrun them for, hopefully long enough to save them, if you have good awareness and speed you can probably save a lot more medivacs now, where as before if it was intercepted by mutas it was a guaranteed loss.

, on the one hand, I'm glad they made it useful, on the other hand I'm worried it might be too much. TvP now already is looking like the most balanced match up, this upgrade feels like it might tip it in the favor of terran because the heal is so big. Basically a toss army without any form of aoe can't do anything. I suppose the time warp from oracle is supposed to balance this out, since units will be slowed and take more damage overall, but it still might make certain timings scary. We'll have to see if someone can find a way to incorporate this upgrade into the 10 min push.

I just hate it right now, I hate that, it is basically so good that it forces all TvT openings to be a gas opening, or you just die, it removes a ton of variety from the openings and thus reduces a lot of depth to TvT and to a lesser extent TvZ. I don't think they needed a speed upgrade, right now I'm thinking that the game would just be better off without them, the unit removes depth more then it adds, at least in its state now.

Glad they removed some of its versatility, it was already to good and again pushing the game into a direction I didn't like, a unit so powerful, so accessible and so cheep shouldn't be this versatile that it can shut down cloak harass, drop play, air harass etc.
The upgrade makes it a kind of a combat unit, if you have the speed to do it you can reposition them to better respond to threats like muta harass, drops etc that change angles. The downside is that, the widow mine can now much more effectively become a Deathball unit.

Glad that it can't be feedbacked and soft countered like that any more, and the new anti-air attack is much, much better against large armored targets that don't clump very much. Basically on even upgrades the Thor did 50% less to BCs because of the super high armor, now it is a much more reliable and versatile anti-air.

I don't like the change at all. HSM is now basically like a Yamato with 2 seconds longer delay and dodgable. I don't hate the fact you can dodge it, I just hate that it overlaps with Yamato in functionality. I was hoping to make HSM more like Irradiate, it required more micro from the opponent and produced better results. The way this is now, it will only be used on units that are guaranteed to not dodge the missile, due to speed, like Broods, possibly BCs, Carriers, Thors etc.

I don't like it, I don't think it needed to hard counter melee even more, it already is super good and on the verge of making lings and zealots obsolete.

I have mixed feelings about this. In all MUs pure bio is now worst at transitioning into the late game because mech can switch to sky terran much easier due to them sharing upgrades. However on the other hand, bio mech or bio air compositions are now much more versatile and you can deal with tech switches much easier. The standard marine-tank will have an easier time dealing with BLs because you'll already have +2 and possibly +3 on your vikings because you've been upgrading tanks damage.
I think this will need to be carefully monitored.

Well, Blizzard did say they wanted to remove it from competitive play and now they have, the Vortex is now only good to "manner vortex" someone, like with scan. I'd still prefer they remove the unit completely though if they don't want to make it useful in any way, any more.

No longer easier to kill by stuff that did bonus to massive.

Nice that they finally give toss a direct worker harass, it feels though like you could easily counter it due to the short range, just by adding in some base defenses.

Looks like a reaction to making mutas faster, it also has the nice side effect that phoenixes can be slightly farther away from a lifted target and thus can avoid some damage with good micro. Overall looks like a good change.

I don't get this one, they said they want to make late game DTs more viable without making DT rushes stronger, this kind of does the opposite since the shrine will get build a bit faster due to the availability of gas earlier or you'll have more units due to being able to spend gas in other areas. It also has no impact on late game DTs apart from a reduction to a one time cost. A DT upgrade at the shrine would have been better. So this is just weird more then anything.

I guess they thought the tempest was too versatile being able to kill both ground massive and air massive so, I agree with the weapon change. The fleet beacon requirement makes sense because you'll want to get it more towards the late game to counter the massive capital ships of your opponent, and having tempest out earlier might conflict with the role of phoenix, void ray, or oracle.

Not sure yet, I want to see more data regarding this, more games etc.

I agree 100% with this, I think its a fantastic idea and I've been proposing it ever since I first saw the idea of a Hydra speed upgrade. The problem with the upgrade always was that, it came at a time in the game where massive aoe was already available and made Hydras weaker. Hopefully now a good strategies and builds that incorporate Hydras in the mid game can appear and shake up the meta-game, variety is always good. Hydras will now be able to kite, split and get concaves better.

A small buff to the speed of one of the more micro and multi-tasking intensive unit, I guess its good, hopefully it encourages more muta mid-games which always lead to more exciting games.

I guess it fulfills the zone control role better now since, you cant bum rush and snipe them as easy in between waves of locust.

I like the infested terran nerfs, they had to be done. Because of the DPS and duration coupled with the upgrade scaling, the IT was the spell that dealt the most DPS per energy cost. Mass infestor was viable mostly because ITs where so good, now that the eggs can't tank as much damage any more, and because ITs don't deal as much damage/energy the mass infestor strategies will hopefully die, and no one will be crying at the funeral.

I still don't like fungal because, if your units get caught once it still guarantees a infinite rooting follow up, I'd prefer if the radius was reduced to 1.5 to bring it in line with the other spells like Storm and EMP, and also if fungal only slowed instead of rooting units in place.
While I don't like fungal at least the change is still decent, its easier to dodge the fungal if you're paying attention and start moving back and splitting the moment you sense the fungals inc.

I don't like it, the real problem with the unit is that, like all melee units, it has a hard time getting any hits off. This change is a bit too polarizing, the ultra will deal more damage the few times it connects, however if you, say get some fungals off and units can't kite any more, then ultralisks will absolutely destroy you. The change feels bad because its too extreme, at one end it is a small improvement, but on the other end its too strong.

Makes it less squishy as a caster, not sure it was needed, the viper already has a lot of mobility being a flying unit, the range of its spells I guess does bring it in the line of fire more so then infestors, so I guess overall its ok.

For T specifically, it feels like mech just might become the dominant, go too strategy. It is less multi-task and APM intensive then bio, much more robust now, safer, transitions into sky terran better etc. It feels like they are making Terran easier to play rather then making other races have more micro/multi-task. The medivac change is aimed to offset this change, but I'm not sure is enough, and it also has a whole slew of other implications.

TvT and TvZ openers are now less varied and lamer as a whole because reaper openings into widow mines are probably just much better. It removes a ton of the beauty of TvT, the chess mach of looking to counter your opponent's build with your own opening, the reacting and intricacies of adapting to the different openers etc, its all gone.

I also hate the kind of gameplay the Widow mine promotes. It promotes very greedy kinds of play, that is often times easier to hold because of how versatile the mine is coupled with its cheapness and availability. It makes it harder to punish a greedy terran and risk taking terran and this removes a lot of variety and depth from the game.

The battle helion deserves a special mention as well, because it will probably make lings worst or even phase them out against mech completely. You know that beautiful ling micro you see from life? The one where he micros his lings in such a way that he heards the helions into a specific direction and gets surrounds on them to kill them? Not possible any more, and I dislike things that remove micro.

I worry about Protoss a lot, and I do mean a lot in the TvP MU. TvP is already statistically the most balanced MU, after years of tinkering and tweaking Blizzard have finally nailed it. The medivac change looks to tip it in favor of the terran, I guess time warp should offset this by making bio take more damage, but I'm not sure it will be enough if the terran has good splitting.

Also mech TvP looks very, very strong. In fact I again fear it might be too strong, battle helions obliterate zealots, which is the crutch of the toss army, siege tanks destroy the armored ground, and lastly thors provide support for tanks and helions, if you also include some ghosts to EMP immortals and archons, I can see toss struggling mightily. I hope I am wrong. And again mech seems more attractive due to the ease of transitioning into sky terran easier.

I can't judge PvZ and PvP, the unit dynamics are so different due to the new units, and the upgrades and changes to them, that its hard to make an educated call. Though one thing's for sure. Late game it will be easier to deal with BLs due to Tempests.

Probably the race that gets shaken up in the best way in regards to design.
The massive nerfs to infestors coupled with the greater strength of mutas and hydras and the addition of Vipers, will hopefully, make the mid game of zerg a lot more varied and interesting. We could see wild new compositions, strategies, transitions and meta-games and that is a good thing.

We could for example see roach, hydra and viper, because the blinding cloud synergizes better with ranged units, it makes them get more shots off and potentially better surface area because the cloud forces you to move out of it and potentially into worst positions.

Infestor with ling and ultra will probably still be optimal because, you want the root from infestor to keep units in place so your melee units can damage them.