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On December 07 2012 06:09 InoyouS2 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2012 06:06 invisible.terran wrote:
Can anyone tell me what's the point of buffing muta's speed if Thor, Widow mine and Phoenix will still stomp them into oblivion? Phoenix will be crap against speed muta's, even with 7 range.
Pheonixes are faster than mutas. The point of phoenixes is now air superiority, which is a very valuable thing. The other side of the coin is that with the new oracle, Tosses will not be churning out pheonixes whne they build a stargate, they will have to do reactive production which will open a timing window where oracles can be sniped and probes damaged.
It's a good balance, this patch seems to have added a lot of depth and opportunity to toss air that did not exist in wings
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On December 07 2012 06:23 Nightshade_ wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2012 06:20 InoyouS2 wrote:On December 07 2012 06:15 Infernal_dream wrote:On December 07 2012 06:09 InoyouS2 wrote:On December 07 2012 06:06 invisible.terran wrote:
Can anyone tell me what's the point of buffing muta's speed if Thor, Widow mine and Phoenix will still stomp them into oblivion? Phoenix will be crap against speed muta's, even with 7 range. Uhh, they outrun mutas. Tell me again how phoenix will be crap when they have more range, more speed, and can fire while moving? They outrun and outrange mutas, yes, but the amount of mutas is wildly disproportionate to the amount of phoenix on the field in any realistic situation (if Protoss goes phoenix, Zerg does not go muta, and if Zerg goes muta, Protoss does not have the production to get enough phoenix and fleet beacon + range upgrade to properly counter the mutas). except theoretically 1 phoenix can kill 50 mutas even before the range buff. Please learn the game
Perahps instead of Bisu's probes one day we might see Bisus' phoenixes 
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On December 07 2012 06:23 Nightshade_ wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2012 06:20 InoyouS2 wrote:On December 07 2012 06:15 Infernal_dream wrote:On December 07 2012 06:09 InoyouS2 wrote:On December 07 2012 06:06 invisible.terran wrote:
Can anyone tell me what's the point of buffing muta's speed if Thor, Widow mine and Phoenix will still stomp them into oblivion? Phoenix will be crap against speed muta's, even with 7 range. Uhh, they outrun mutas. Tell me again how phoenix will be crap when they have more range, more speed, and can fire while moving? They outrun and outrange mutas, yes, but the amount of mutas is wildly disproportionate to the amount of phoenix on the field in any realistic situation (if Protoss goes phoenix, Zerg does not go muta, and if Zerg goes muta, Protoss does not have the production to get enough phoenix and fleet beacon + range upgrade to properly counter the mutas). except theoretically 1 phoenix can kill 50 mutas even before the range buff. Please learn the game
Cool, theory! You micro your little heart out. And while you read what Tyler said on the subject (and in more detail elsewhere, so I'll leave you to search for it), write less.
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It's not as if Phoenixes DON'T counter Mutas, though.
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On December 07 2012 06:37 idkfa wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2012 06:23 Nightshade_ wrote:On December 07 2012 06:20 InoyouS2 wrote:On December 07 2012 06:15 Infernal_dream wrote:On December 07 2012 06:09 InoyouS2 wrote:On December 07 2012 06:06 invisible.terran wrote:
Can anyone tell me what's the point of buffing muta's speed if Thor, Widow mine and Phoenix will still stomp them into oblivion? Phoenix will be crap against speed muta's, even with 7 range. Uhh, they outrun mutas. Tell me again how phoenix will be crap when they have more range, more speed, and can fire while moving? They outrun and outrange mutas, yes, but the amount of mutas is wildly disproportionate to the amount of phoenix on the field in any realistic situation (if Protoss goes phoenix, Zerg does not go muta, and if Zerg goes muta, Protoss does not have the production to get enough phoenix and fleet beacon + range upgrade to properly counter the mutas). except theoretically 1 phoenix can kill 50 mutas even before the range buff. Please learn the game Cool, theory! You micro your little heart out. And while you read what Tyler said on the subject (and in more detail elsewhere, so I'll leave you to search for it), write less.
Someone sounds like he's mad
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Overall awesome patch but this...
The Medivac’s Caduceus Reactor upgrade at the Starport Tech Lab:
Health restored per second from 9 to 15.
Energy cost reduced from 3 health per 1 energy to 5 health per 1 energy.
Cost increased from 100/100 and 80 seconds to 150/150 and 110 seconds.
O_o the most OP of all the changes, though i agree with the idea of making battles last longer.
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Northern Ireland27459 Posts
On December 07 2012 06:35 TheFrankOne wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2012 06:09 InoyouS2 wrote:On December 07 2012 06:06 invisible.terran wrote:
Can anyone tell me what's the point of buffing muta's speed if Thor, Widow mine and Phoenix will still stomp them into oblivion? Phoenix will be crap against speed muta's, even with 7 range. Pheonixes are faster than mutas. The point of phoenixes is now air superiority, which is a very valuable thing. The other side of the coin is that with the new oracle, Tosses will not be churning out pheonixes whne they build a stargate, they will have to do reactive production which will open a timing window where oracles can be sniped and probes damaged. It's a good balance, this patch seems to have added a lot of depth and opportunity to toss air that did not exist in wings
Phoenixes had that anyway over mutas, even before pulse crystals in WoL. Faster mutas just will be better against Stalkers and Templar, our 'soft' counters, but our hard counter unit, the phoenix is made better too.
However, the gas investment slowed blink and upgrades, slowed Templar tech etc. That's why Muta play was good, because they gained a way to pin the Toss back and expand behind it while delaying our ability to take a third.
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Servers still down :crap:
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United Kingdom12057 Posts
On December 07 2012 06:51 Denda Reloaded wrote:
Servers still down :crap:
It's now 10PM and I've been waiting all day to play. T_T
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On December 07 2012 06:53 Qikz wrote:It's now 10PM and I've been waiting all day to play. T_T
Yeah, if you're in Europe I'd just give up at this point. I wonder what the over/under is for me being able to play before midnight tonight EST lol
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On December 07 2012 06:37 idkfa wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2012 06:23 Nightshade_ wrote:On December 07 2012 06:20 InoyouS2 wrote:On December 07 2012 06:15 Infernal_dream wrote:On December 07 2012 06:09 InoyouS2 wrote:On December 07 2012 06:06 invisible.terran wrote:
Can anyone tell me what's the point of buffing muta's speed if Thor, Widow mine and Phoenix will still stomp them into oblivion? Phoenix will be crap against speed muta's, even with 7 range. Uhh, they outrun mutas. Tell me again how phoenix will be crap when they have more range, more speed, and can fire while moving? They outrun and outrange mutas, yes, but the amount of mutas is wildly disproportionate to the amount of phoenix on the field in any realistic situation (if Protoss goes phoenix, Zerg does not go muta, and if Zerg goes muta, Protoss does not have the production to get enough phoenix and fleet beacon + range upgrade to properly counter the mutas). except theoretically 1 phoenix can kill 50 mutas even before the range buff. Please learn the game Cool, theory! You micro your little heart out. And while you read what Tyler said on the subject (and in more detail elsewhere, so I'll leave you to search for it), write less.
The only reason why phoenix didn't work vs mutas was because you could put 1-2 corruptors into your muta ball, and then suddenly your 1 phoenix can't kill 50 mutas anymore.
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United Arab Emirates439 Posts
I was thinking about it today at work, and you know a big thing with this change in game-play is it's going to allow map sizes, and most importantly the size between bases, to be increased.
Protoss with the new Stargate viablity can (hopefully?) defend a third base without NEEDING Sentry/Immortal from Zerg. And in general will be more mobile and better at dealing with drops/counter-attacks.
Terran Mech is getting *substantially* stronger with the upgrade change, meaning it doesn't need to play so eco/upgrade focused in the mid-game to have a good late-game, i.e. it can focus more on units to secure more bases, and in general expand a bit slower to it's third/4th bases. It also got a bit better at space control with Widow Mines.
Bio also got a bit stronger, but lost a lot of it's strengths against Mech - biggest of all probably the air transition option.
Zerg a lot of people feel like is going to be a bit weak, especially it's "deathball" armies.
So if Mech is too strong, and Zerg is too weak, Protoss will be able to adapt to map sizes (warp ins + stargate) hopefully we can increase map sizes and most importantly, the distance between bases. Maybe it's just me but I felt maps were a bit too small and bases were WAY too close to each other
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Servers still down what the fuck? Seriously? How can something go SO badly wrong it takes like 24 hours to fix O_O
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On December 07 2012 06:53 Qikz wrote:It's now 10PM and I've been waiting all day to play. T_T
Same, i was up to 2.00 CET last night and that was fruitless so today I'm just gonna call it a night right now, hopefully i get to play it tomorrow....
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On December 07 2012 07:06 LOLItsRyann wrote:
Servers still down what the fuck? Seriously? How can something go SO badly wrong it takes like 24 hours to fix O_O
you must be new to blizzard games lol, this is pretty standard for them when they release huge patches
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On December 07 2012 06:56 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2012 06:37 idkfa wrote:On December 07 2012 06:23 Nightshade_ wrote:On December 07 2012 06:20 InoyouS2 wrote:On December 07 2012 06:15 Infernal_dream wrote:On December 07 2012 06:09 InoyouS2 wrote:On December 07 2012 06:06 invisible.terran wrote:
Can anyone tell me what's the point of buffing muta's speed if Thor, Widow mine and Phoenix will still stomp them into oblivion? Phoenix will be crap against speed muta's, even with 7 range. Uhh, they outrun mutas. Tell me again how phoenix will be crap when they have more range, more speed, and can fire while moving? They outrun and outrange mutas, yes, but the amount of mutas is wildly disproportionate to the amount of phoenix on the field in any realistic situation (if Protoss goes phoenix, Zerg does not go muta, and if Zerg goes muta, Protoss does not have the production to get enough phoenix and fleet beacon + range upgrade to properly counter the mutas). except theoretically 1 phoenix can kill 50 mutas even before the range buff. Please learn the game Cool, theory! You micro your little heart out. And while you read what Tyler said on the subject (and in more detail elsewhere, so I'll leave you to search for it), write less. The only reason why phoenix didn't work vs mutas was because you could put 1-2 corruptors into your muta ball, and then suddenly your 1 phoenix can't kill 50 mutas anymore.
I don't think corruptors are the problem. The core problem was that Ps started third bases at 11-13mins at those times when mutalisks were extremly popular. The core problem is, that once a zerg gets out 2-3infestors, pheonixes cannot move over the map anymore, which kills the purpose of having a unit that hunts and kites mutalisks.
The core problem is, that to match mutalisks production in ways that phoenixes are reasonable (against mass muta), you need at least two stargates - but there is no useful transition from stargates.
And a last core problem is, that reacting to mutas with phoenixes meant you were always hugely behind in the count from the start.
With or without the upgrade, micro or tweaks, phoenixes destroy mutalisks cost for cost and supply for supply. But in WoL, there is no gameplan that can be evolved around this...
Corruptors are a nice addition in straight up combats, but they slow down muta harass, they still need to stay together with the mutas to not get raped by mass phoenix and they actually don't fill any real purpose outside of defending mutas.
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On December 07 2012 07:06 LOLItsRyann wrote:
Servers still down what the fuck? Seriously? How can something go SO badly wrong it takes like 24 hours to fix O_O
Blizzard said their servers had become unstable and they were having problems pinning down the issue. Welcome to the modern internet, where stuff is super hard to fix once its fucked up.
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On December 07 2012 07:18 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2012 07:06 LOLItsRyann wrote:
Servers still down what the fuck? Seriously? How can something go SO badly wrong it takes like 24 hours to fix O_O Blizzard said their servers had become unstable and they were having problems pinning down the issue. Welcome to the modern internet, where stuff is super hard to fix once its fucked up.
Wait so they haven't even FOUND the problem yet?
Oh god why.
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beta servers are unable to handle all the terrans trying to login obviously :p
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On December 07 2012 07:21 LOLItsRyann wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2012 07:18 Plansix wrote:On December 07 2012 07:06 LOLItsRyann wrote:
Servers still down what the fuck? Seriously? How can something go SO badly wrong it takes like 24 hours to fix O_O Blizzard said their servers had become unstable and they were having problems pinning down the issue. Welcome to the modern internet, where stuff is super hard to fix once its fucked up. Wait so they haven't even FOUND the problem yet? Oh god why.
They had similar problems with 2.0.1, so it's not surprising to me. That last patch was delayed due to hardware problems iirc.
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EPT
