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On December 07 2012 04:20 Necro)Phagist( wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2012 04:16 avilo wrote:On December 07 2012 04:08 Tsubbi wrote:On December 07 2012 04:00 avilo wrote:
Also, the new raven change is terrible for a multitude of reasons.
a) seeker missile is still inaccessible as hell in real games where there's action back and forth
b) single target damage means it's going to suck vs mass brood/corruptor/infestor balls
I've seen people comparing it to yamato...and it's quite obvious it's almost exactly the same. Raven honestly does not need any changes except making it a more accessible unit in terms of the time it takes to get it's abilities into play.
CORVID REACTOR INCREASE RAVEN START ENERGY TO 100.
Makes the raven accessible, waits 25 energy for seeker missile instead of 50, and raven has immediate use with a PDD or two auto turrets.
Adding a yamato cannon to the raven is a terrible idea -_- only you could ask for more terran buffs after reading these patch notes Where in my above post was i asking for buffs? I'm talking about the design of the unit. It's very bad right now that let's say you build 2 ravens, they pop out with 75 energy and are just sitting there useless in lategame. It takes ages to acquire 125 energy. I'm arguing that the raven should be made into a unit that's useful when you build it off the bat. As for the "new seeker buff" it's not exactly a buff. It does single target damage, still requires that 125 energy, and is essentially exactly the same as a yamato cannon. It's very inaccessible, and when you do get access to it now it does no splash which makes infestor/brood/corruptor more difficult to deal with. That is just my analysis. How is giving a unit yamato cannon with no upgrade required not a buff? Yea its a bit trickier to use but it also 1 shots corruptors and BL's thats pretty sick. 300 damage in single shot free ability? That sounds pretty kick ass to me!
Because he didn't exclude the idea of nerfing other things to compensate for ravens corvid being 100.
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I really appreciate most of these changes, sweet! Although I play Protoss I am most interested in the medivac changes.
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On December 07 2012 04:20 Necro)Phagist( wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2012 04:16 avilo wrote:On December 07 2012 04:08 Tsubbi wrote:On December 07 2012 04:00 avilo wrote:
Also, the new raven change is terrible for a multitude of reasons.
a) seeker missile is still inaccessible as hell in real games where there's action back and forth
b) single target damage means it's going to suck vs mass brood/corruptor/infestor balls
I've seen people comparing it to yamato...and it's quite obvious it's almost exactly the same. Raven honestly does not need any changes except making it a more accessible unit in terms of the time it takes to get it's abilities into play.
CORVID REACTOR INCREASE RAVEN START ENERGY TO 100.
Makes the raven accessible, waits 25 energy for seeker missile instead of 50, and raven has immediate use with a PDD or two auto turrets.
Adding a yamato cannon to the raven is a terrible idea -_- only you could ask for more terran buffs after reading these patch notes Where in my above post was i asking for buffs? I'm talking about the design of the unit. It's very bad right now that let's say you build 2 ravens, they pop out with 75 energy and are just sitting there useless in lategame. It takes ages to acquire 125 energy. I'm arguing that the raven should be made into a unit that's useful when you build it off the bat. As for the "new seeker buff" it's not exactly a buff. It does single target damage, still requires that 125 energy, and is essentially exactly the same as a yamato cannon. It's very inaccessible, and when you do get access to it now it does no splash which makes infestor/brood/corruptor more difficult to deal with. That is just my analysis. How is giving a unit yamato cannon with no upgrade required not a buff? Yea its a bit trickier to use but it also 1 shots corruptors and BL's thats pretty sick. 300 damage in single shot free ability? That sounds pretty kick ass to me!
Unlike BC's , Ravens are totally useless when they used Seeker Missile. You shoot Seeker Missile the Raven is a paper weight because the one spell it can still cast is probably the most useless spell in the game now that Strike Cannon is gone.
Not to mention that single target damage is rarely any strong.
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On December 07 2012 04:19 sagefreke wrote:
The Muta buff really does nothing to help against P or T. Phoenix is now even stronger against them not to mention with range upgrades they can even kite corruptors.
Muta buff certainly helps against P. They can run out of storms faster and run away from blink faster. Also if the protoss doesn't go for a stargate opener then phoenix still aren't a great reaction since he will have more muta and can build more faster than phoenix.
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On December 07 2012 04:19 sagefreke wrote:
Outside of the Ultralisk and Hydra changes I'm a sad Zerg player. The Medivac buff is gonna be ridiculous. Marine/tank/Medivac is going to be so retardedly strong mid game. Terrains with good micro will be able to negate bane kings relatively effectively and the buffed medivacs are going to make killing Marines with Zerglings a huge pain in the ass.
The Muta buff really does nothing to help against P or T. Phoenix is now even stronger against them not to mention with range upgrades they can even kite corruptors. And I sincerely doubt my .25 faster Mutas are going to make harassing Terrans any easier with Widow Mines, Turrets, marines, and Thors. Oooo My Mutas now get to the enemy's base a couple seconds earlier than before... Big whoop.
I'm guessing Zerg will go for Hydra/ling/bling compositions more now to deal with the Medivac changes mid game.
Damn, Zerg players might actually have to try new compositions...such a tragedy.
Seriously, though. I think all these changes are going to promote a lot more variety in strategies. This is only a good thing, but it will take time to adjust, obviously.
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On December 07 2012 04:27 s3rp wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2012 04:20 Necro)Phagist( wrote:On December 07 2012 04:16 avilo wrote:On December 07 2012 04:08 Tsubbi wrote:On December 07 2012 04:00 avilo wrote:
Also, the new raven change is terrible for a multitude of reasons.
a) seeker missile is still inaccessible as hell in real games where there's action back and forth
b) single target damage means it's going to suck vs mass brood/corruptor/infestor balls
I've seen people comparing it to yamato...and it's quite obvious it's almost exactly the same. Raven honestly does not need any changes except making it a more accessible unit in terms of the time it takes to get it's abilities into play.
CORVID REACTOR INCREASE RAVEN START ENERGY TO 100.
Makes the raven accessible, waits 25 energy for seeker missile instead of 50, and raven has immediate use with a PDD or two auto turrets.
Adding a yamato cannon to the raven is a terrible idea -_- only you could ask for more terran buffs after reading these patch notes Where in my above post was i asking for buffs? I'm talking about the design of the unit. It's very bad right now that let's say you build 2 ravens, they pop out with 75 energy and are just sitting there useless in lategame. It takes ages to acquire 125 energy. I'm arguing that the raven should be made into a unit that's useful when you build it off the bat. As for the "new seeker buff" it's not exactly a buff. It does single target damage, still requires that 125 energy, and is essentially exactly the same as a yamato cannon. It's very inaccessible, and when you do get access to it now it does no splash which makes infestor/brood/corruptor more difficult to deal with. That is just my analysis. How is giving a unit yamato cannon with no upgrade required not a buff? Yea its a bit trickier to use but it also 1 shots corruptors and BL's thats pretty sick. 300 damage in single shot free ability? That sounds pretty kick ass to me! Unlike BC's , Ravens are totally useless when they used Seeker Missile. You shoot Seeker Missile the Raven is a paper weight because the one spell it can still cast is probably the most useless spell in the game now that Strike Cannon is gone.
im really not sure what the point of your post is - spellcasters without energy are bad mkay?
at least the raven can still detect, what else do you want it to do? attack?
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On December 07 2012 04:19 sagefreke wrote:
Outside of the Ultralisk and Hydra changes I'm a sad Zerg player. The Medivac buff is gonna be ridiculous. Marine/tank/Medivac is going to be so retardedly strong mid game. Terrains with good micro will be able to negate bane kings relatively effectively and the buffed medivacs are going to make killing Marines with Zerglings a huge pain in the ass.
The Muta buff really does nothing to help against P or T. Phoenix is now even stronger against them not to mention with range upgrades they can even kite corruptors. And I sincerely doubt my .25 faster Mutas are going to make harassing Terrans any easier with Widow Mines, Turrets, marines, and Thors. Oooo My Mutas now get to the enemy's base a couple seconds earlier than before... Big whoop.
I'm guessing Zerg will go for Hydra/ling/bling compositions more now to deal with the Medivac changes mid game.
There is no mid game timing with the medivac upgrade. You need techlab on the starport and its expensive. Unless you expect terrans to build medivacs 1 at a time and waste 150/150 on upgrade for the 2 medivacs that they will be able to get out... Great timing ! The medivac upgrade is late game change it has nothing to do with the mid game.
Muta buff is actually there because the medivacs are faster now, so you need faster units to deflect drops.
I'm playing zerg and I think that the zerg tears in this treat are ridiculous. Cmon guys you didnt even try it and you are already crying.
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I think the new seeker is way too similar to yamato. 300 single target damage that needs to charge up and has long range...
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They are probably planning a change to the Battlecruiser.
Would not be surprised to see some of the old ideas reimplemented.
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i don't really know if that voidray change is a buff or nerf, and vortex is useless now, should just make a new ability or something. Terran got needed buffs, looking forward to seeing how this plays out
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On December 07 2012 04:29 dust7 wrote:
I think the new seeker is way too similar to yamato. 300 single target damage that needs to charge up and has long range...
Yamato: 10 range, 3 second charge up, 100 energy, single target
New Seeker: 10 range, 3 second charge up, 125 energy, single target
Hmmm...
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Correct me if i'm wrong, but wont the hydras be able to negate drop-play? They have high dps and can shoot air, this with a queen should mean drops will be harder to execute. Also with the raven, seeing as it is a cheaper unit than the battlecruiser, that could mean it has increased viability in the late game with the PDD on top of the new seeker missile which could be used in a bio ball late game against those high hp ultras or broodlords. The viper hp AND the swarm host hp will help counteract bio in all parts of the game as well, with the hosts having higher survivability and the viper being able to yank the medivacs or maybe even raven away to help beat the bio balls high defense unit or high damage unit (Raven, potentially). Not the mention the Ultralisks should be able to cut through a bio ball pretty well as well. As for TvZ mech, i have no idea what could be in store for that one...
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Poll: What would you prefer?Change the new Seeker Missile (23) 62% Change Yamato Cannon (14) 38% 37 total votes Your vote: What would you prefer? (Vote): Change the new Seeker Missile
(Vote): Change Yamato Cannon
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On December 07 2012 04:28 summerloud wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2012 04:27 s3rp wrote:On December 07 2012 04:20 Necro)Phagist( wrote:On December 07 2012 04:16 avilo wrote:On December 07 2012 04:08 Tsubbi wrote:On December 07 2012 04:00 avilo wrote:
Also, the new raven change is terrible for a multitude of reasons.
a) seeker missile is still inaccessible as hell in real games where there's action back and forth
b) single target damage means it's going to suck vs mass brood/corruptor/infestor balls
I've seen people comparing it to yamato...and it's quite obvious it's almost exactly the same. Raven honestly does not need any changes except making it a more accessible unit in terms of the time it takes to get it's abilities into play.
CORVID REACTOR INCREASE RAVEN START ENERGY TO 100.
Makes the raven accessible, waits 25 energy for seeker missile instead of 50, and raven has immediate use with a PDD or two auto turrets.
Adding a yamato cannon to the raven is a terrible idea -_- only you could ask for more terran buffs after reading these patch notes Where in my above post was i asking for buffs? I'm talking about the design of the unit. It's very bad right now that let's say you build 2 ravens, they pop out with 75 energy and are just sitting there useless in lategame. It takes ages to acquire 125 energy. I'm arguing that the raven should be made into a unit that's useful when you build it off the bat. As for the "new seeker buff" it's not exactly a buff. It does single target damage, still requires that 125 energy, and is essentially exactly the same as a yamato cannon. It's very inaccessible, and when you do get access to it now it does no splash which makes infestor/brood/corruptor more difficult to deal with. That is just my analysis. How is giving a unit yamato cannon with no upgrade required not a buff? Yea its a bit trickier to use but it also 1 shots corruptors and BL's thats pretty sick. 300 damage in single shot free ability? That sounds pretty kick ass to me! Unlike BC's , Ravens are totally useless when they used Seeker Missile. You shoot Seeker Missile the Raven is a paper weight because the one spell it can still cast is probably the most useless spell in the game now that Strike Cannon is gone. im really not sure what the point of your post is - spellcasters without energy are bad mkay? at least the raven can still detect, what else do you want it to do? attack?
No but i the new Seeker Missile is not worth 125 Energy. Hell even Yamato Cannon isn't 125 anymore . If 1 spell alone costs more than half the Spellcasters energy and leave him useless ( and no detection is not that useful as Terran ) it should be better than this. SIngle Target damage is not very good , period. It's nice for BC's because it's a Bonus to the normal DPS but as a primary use it's not worth it.
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On December 07 2012 04:38 s3rp wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2012 04:28 summerloud wrote:On December 07 2012 04:27 s3rp wrote:On December 07 2012 04:20 Necro)Phagist( wrote:On December 07 2012 04:16 avilo wrote:On December 07 2012 04:08 Tsubbi wrote:On December 07 2012 04:00 avilo wrote:
Also, the new raven change is terrible for a multitude of reasons.
a) seeker missile is still inaccessible as hell in real games where there's action back and forth
b) single target damage means it's going to suck vs mass brood/corruptor/infestor balls
I've seen people comparing it to yamato...and it's quite obvious it's almost exactly the same. Raven honestly does not need any changes except making it a more accessible unit in terms of the time it takes to get it's abilities into play.
CORVID REACTOR INCREASE RAVEN START ENERGY TO 100.
Makes the raven accessible, waits 25 energy for seeker missile instead of 50, and raven has immediate use with a PDD or two auto turrets.
Adding a yamato cannon to the raven is a terrible idea -_- only you could ask for more terran buffs after reading these patch notes Where in my above post was i asking for buffs? I'm talking about the design of the unit. It's very bad right now that let's say you build 2 ravens, they pop out with 75 energy and are just sitting there useless in lategame. It takes ages to acquire 125 energy. I'm arguing that the raven should be made into a unit that's useful when you build it off the bat. As for the "new seeker buff" it's not exactly a buff. It does single target damage, still requires that 125 energy, and is essentially exactly the same as a yamato cannon. It's very inaccessible, and when you do get access to it now it does no splash which makes infestor/brood/corruptor more difficult to deal with. That is just my analysis. How is giving a unit yamato cannon with no upgrade required not a buff? Yea its a bit trickier to use but it also 1 shots corruptors and BL's thats pretty sick. 300 damage in single shot free ability? That sounds pretty kick ass to me! Unlike BC's , Ravens are totally useless when they used Seeker Missile. You shoot Seeker Missile the Raven is a paper weight because the one spell it can still cast is probably the most useless spell in the game now that Strike Cannon is gone. im really not sure what the point of your post is - spellcasters without energy are bad mkay? at least the raven can still detect, what else do you want it to do? attack? No but i the new Seeker Missile is not worth 125 Energy. Hell even Yamato Cannon isn't 125 anymore . It 1 spell alone that costs more than half the Spellcasters energy and leave him useless ( and no detection is not that useful as Terran ) it should be better than this. SIngle Target damage is not very good , period.
I think it might be alright but situational. Trading 1 Raven (100min/200gas) for 1 Broodlord(300min/250gas) is a huge win. Suicide it if you must..If you can keep your Raven alive, then it was a tremendously good trade.
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So in TvP..
Rather than have an idle Factory floating around if you're going bio it might be worth it to land it with a reactor and pump some Hellbats.
They will most likely have +3 attack due to your Vikings being upgraded vs Collosis.
Now when Protoss tries to reinforce with 20 Zealots you can watch them charge to their death as your upgraded Medivacs heal those bad boys as they roast them.
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On December 07 2012 04:41 SarcasmMonster wrote:
I think it might be alright but situational. Trading 1 Raven (100min/200gas) for 1 Broodlord(300min/250gas) is a huge win. Suicide it if you must..If you can keep your Raven alive, then it was a tremendously good trade.
It's much easier to keep it alive now. 10 range and the Raven can fly away while HSM is charging.
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dunno about damage ability on the mobile detector anyways, always thought terran should aim for 1 or 2 ravens for detection and pdd, give the damage spells to something else
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United States7483 Posts
Most of the time, I'd much rather use a PDD than a seeker missile anyway. That hasn't changed, unfortunately. If the enemy has units that are effected by PDD, PDD it is.
I would have liked to have seen an auto-turret buff.
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EPT
