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Northern Ireland27441 Posts
On December 06 2012 11:59 playa wrote:
I personally wish the carrier was done away with. I always thought the arbiter was imbalanced in BW and thought it was silly for there to not be a limit to how many you could make. Now, given the troll change to vortex, I'm curious as to what the game would either look like with a limit on arbiters or the mothership having stasis, plus moving a lot faster than it currently does.
Fix the Carrier's microability and you have a good unit.
The approach to Stargate tech and synergy is excellent even if the specifics aren't 100% balanced regarding to testing.
At least it's an attempt to really properly flesh out Stargate tech and make all its parts both useful, but less overlapping. It's the one clear thematic idea I can actually see with these changes. Benefits would include smoothing say, a Stargate transition in PvZ by letting you keep your Stargate units out a bit longer.
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The fungal change makes sense but taking away IT's upgrades seems a bit much. I guess we will see
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On December 06 2012 12:05 HappyTimePANDA wrote:
The fungal change makes sense but taking away IT's upgrades seems a bit much. I guess we will see
the whole point of nerfing that was because zerg could get max army and energy and make a free upgraded army as well
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Obviously all this will change still but I definitely don't see all those Terran changes staying. Some, but definitely not all. Seems like too much atm.
Also finally they take away ITs getting upgrades, that was such bs.
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On December 06 2012 12:02 Wombat_NI wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2012 11:59 playa wrote:
I personally wish the carrier was done away with. I always thought the arbiter was imbalanced in BW and thought it was silly for there to not be a limit to how many you could make. Now, given the troll change to vortex, I'm curious as to what the game would either look like with a limit on arbiters or the mothership having stasis, plus moving a lot faster than it currently does. Fix the Carrier's microability and you have a good unit. The approach to Stargate tech and synergy is excellent even if the specifics aren't 100% balanced regarding to testing. At least it's an attempt to really properly flesh out Stargate tech and make all its parts both useful, but less overlapping. It's the one clear thematic idea I can actually see with these changes. Benefits would include smoothing say, a Stargate transition in PvZ by letting you keep your Stargate units out a bit longer.
I don't see any use for the carrier in p vs z, given the tempest specializing against broodlords. In p vs t, with terran sharing upgrades between air and ground units, I don't know why it should work even if you had the ability to micro in insane ways. I just hate the carrier and don't miss having to spend money on "ammo" for my units. Like it's already costly enough and takes long enough to get, and is weak without the proper air upgrades. Starting behind in upgrades to vikings, when they can quickly be pumped out, doesn't sound like a fun proposition. For all of the clamoring to have the carrier put back in the game, you would think that perhaps you might actually see it used in a game here and there. It's like there's 1 guy out there that actually uses it. He made a lot of accounts to petition for it, to give a sense of people actually caring about using it.
Blizzard got trolled or... you guys need to face it, whether a micro trick was added or not for the carrier, you aren't going to use it. Ever. So... stop talking as if it matters what happens with it.
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wow!
The best changes ever!
the only question: what's the cost of vortex? I guess it's either a filler spell right now (while they figure out the redesign) or it shouldn't cost more than 50 energy.
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On December 06 2012 12:06 Nightshade_ wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2012 12:05 HappyTimePANDA wrote:
The fungal change makes sense but taking away IT's upgrades seems a bit much. I guess we will see the whole point of nerfing that was because zerg could get max army and energy and make a free upgraded army as well
But with that nerf zerg didnt get enough buffs to make up for that loss, especially with terran being buffed into god mode.
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Northern Ireland27441 Posts
On December 06 2012 12:12 playa wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2012 12:02 Wombat_NI wrote:On December 06 2012 11:59 playa wrote:
I personally wish the carrier was done away with. I always thought the arbiter was imbalanced in BW and thought it was silly for there to not be a limit to how many you could make. Now, given the troll change to vortex, I'm curious as to what the game would either look like with a limit on arbiters or the mothership having stasis, plus moving a lot faster than it currently does. Fix the Carrier's microability and you have a good unit. The approach to Stargate tech and synergy is excellent even if the specifics aren't 100% balanced regarding to testing. At least it's an attempt to really properly flesh out Stargate tech and make all its parts both useful, but less overlapping. It's the one clear thematic idea I can actually see with these changes. Benefits would include smoothing say, a Stargate transition in PvZ by letting you keep your Stargate units out a bit longer. I don't see any use for the carrier in p vs z, given the tempest specializing against broodlords. In p vs t, with terran sharing upgrades between air and ground units, I don't know why it should work even if you had the ability to micro in insane ways. I just hate the carrier and don't miss having to spend money on "ammo" for my units. Like it's already costly enough and takes long enough to get, and is weak without the proper air upgrades. Starting behind in upgrades to vikings, when they can quickly be pumped out, doesn't sound like a fun proposition. For all of the clamoring to have the carrier put back in the game, you would think that perhaps you might actually see it used in a game here and there. It's like there's 1 guy out there that actually uses it. He made a lot of accounts to petition for it, to give a sense of people actually caring about using it. Blizzard got trolled or... you guys need to face it, whether a micro trick was added or not for the carrier, you aren't going to use it. Ever. So... stop talking as if it matters what happens with it.
You misunderstand. Carriers were only as good as they were in BW because of the micro potential they had. Their pure beefiness helped, but wasn't why.
I like the Carrier for being iconic, however Blizzard were right in removing it, at least in terms of it not being used. However it's close to the only unit they never once buffed or changed to encourage viability.
Tyler's video showed them why its microability was good, really clearly. This sadly lead to 'SaveTheCarrier' which just for some reason let Blizzard bring back the Carrier without adding the fix that could make it good It's actually why I hate this patch, despite finding things that are good in it. Where is the consistency in the overall approach?
I'd rather have no Carrier and other options in terms of design explored, than a Carrier that is there because it's iconic, without the changes that would make it potentially be viable being implemented.
It's fucking retarded, really.
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woooooah. alright. dunno how to feel about most of this. there's quite a few things i imagine will need to be tweaked. not sure it's worth writing a tldr about all of this before seeing how it affects everything, and i imagine that will take some time cos all kinds of shiz has the potential to work differently now. mostly i'm just glad they put something this big out before beta ends.
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opterown
Australia54784 Posts
wow, this is a fun, dynamic patch.
i like the armory buff, makes lategame terran a lot stronger imo. it might be too much along with the MMM buff though
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Medivac cost nerf seems too much just for a 8 second speed boost? Sure later in the game you can utilize the speed bonus extensively as well as the healing upgrade, but nerfing the core early game build order for that sake doesn't really make sense. Starport build time is so important, extra 30 seconds on medivacs cripples production by so much.
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Patch downloaded but still can't log on wtf? D:
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opterown
Australia54784 Posts
On December 06 2012 12:19 bLo0d wrote:
Medivac cost nerf seems too much just for a 8 second speed boost? Sure later in the game you can utilize the speed bonus extensively as well as the healing upgrade, but nerfing the core early game build order for that sake doesn't really make sense. Starport build time is so important, extra 30 seconds on medivacs cripples production by so much.
the cost of the upgrade is up, not the cost of the medivac itself haha
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On December 06 2012 12:19 bLo0d wrote:
Medivac cost nerf seems too much just for a 8 second speed boost? Sure later in the game you can utilize the speed bonus extensively as well as the healing upgrade, but nerfing the core early game build order for that sake doesn't really make sense. Starport build time is so important, extra 30 seconds on medivacs cripples production by so much.
Actually, the cost/production nerf are part of the Caduceus Reactor. The upgrade basically makes the medvac the same, at less supply(but same cost).
everything bellow the caduceus reactor on the OP are part of it.
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This is such a great patch to have during beta. Perfect time to test out a bunch of funky stuff and see how it evolves. +1 to you blizz
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HSM will nearly 1 shot a Colossus now, and the new Thor attack will badly mess them up as well. Since Tempests remain crazy effective vs Colossi, it now looks like PvZ will be the only matchup where Colossi remain viable and consistently used, and even there Vipers help reduce strats that rely on too many Colossi.
Given that everyone hates Colossi and wanted them taken out of the game, this seems like an indirect approach. Just make their counters so strong they stop being viable.
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On December 06 2012 12:22 Zephirdd wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2012 12:19 bLo0d wrote:
Medivac cost nerf seems too much just for a 8 second speed boost? Sure later in the game you can utilize the speed bonus extensively as well as the healing upgrade, but nerfing the core early game build order for that sake doesn't really make sense. Starport build time is so important, extra 30 seconds on medivacs cripples production by so much. Actually, the cost/production nerf are part of the Caduceus Reactor. The upgrade basically makes the medvac the same, at less supply(but same cost). everything bellow the caduceus reactor on the OP are part of it.
Caduceus Reactor is now a legitimate upgrade. This is awesome.
It's funny b/c there was a thread recently debating how to possibly work caduceus reactor in its WoL form into a build, and the only thing people could come up with his getting it while faking cloak in the hellion/banshee opener that transitions into marine/tank. And even then people were like "this still isn't worth it". Really great change in my opinion.
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Infested Terrans no longer gain weapon and armor upgrades. I always thought this was stupid.  Now fungal will look cool I hope. The Viper is going to more than make up for the slight Infestor changes. I'm excited to play tonight.
I knew Burrow Charge wouldn't stick. It was very poorly implemented and not worth it's cost.
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HotS is finally looking like it will do for SC2 what BW did for SC--totally change the game. This is the kind of stuff I wanted from Blizzard.
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EPT
