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Mn. Yeah not feeling too optimistic. I understand buffing things to nerf back but I think they needed to change some more basic relationships before super charging everything. Late Game bio certainly got much much stronger.
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Some of the best changes I've ever seen from Blizzard.
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On December 06 2012 10:06 Qikz wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2012 10:04 sitromit wrote:On December 06 2012 09:53 Plansix wrote:On December 06 2012 09:49 dw.Justify wrote:
Ok i try, first of all medivac changes are much too drastic that cant be the right way. The speed is so high even faster then mutaliscs with new speed ^^. And the healing will be so powerfull its a 60 % healting buff.
Also terran mech is rly rly strong in hots vs P. Just tempest totally owns it but this will not be the case anymore with the new patch. And mech will now be even stronger espc when thor rly has no more energy
I think most zerg changes are ok.
But muta speed... this is not rly necessary makes them just more annyoning but not better in fighting.
Im myself protoss, i think dt shrine is now too cheap but makes me anyway happy :-) dt pwnage but in caste of balance its prob also shit
.
Tempest beeing tier 3 together with carrier and no more + dmg vs massive ground will make it never been played again so tempest is no more new unit.
Blizzard said themselv since toss has now tempest they dont need vortex anymore vs Broodlords. But tempest will not be build against broodlords i guess but time will tell (carriers are better in this case and they also dont rly work).
(tempest dps is 9 vs massive 18) carrier has 25 dps against everything carrier range is 8 first later 14 so its not a big difference between those 2 but im not sure. In every caste the medivac speed and heal is shit this is 4 sure. I find none of your arguments compelling or with any merit. Most of the changes are not about balancing the game, but shacking up the meta game to promote the use of different play styles. If they are OP, they can be toned down. But the patch makes good changes to may of the neglected units and structures in the game. Medivacs are the least neglected units in the game, they did NOT need a buff. Drop play has seriously died out in TvP over the last year, same goes for TvT and even TvZ thanks to fungal. It's promoting drops.
With the COMPLETELY incorrect solutions. What happens when fungal stops being a root? It fucks it all up because the buff is out of the blue and unneeded. Stuff like fungal and warpgates need to be nerfed.
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Just my 2 cents, the way Blizzard encourages DT plays indirectly encourages Terran to build Raven as well  This might be one of their true intention.
One more thing, terran should switch from 2 x reactor starport play to 3 x tech lab starport from now on to take benefits on the Ravens and Mediviac upgrades.
Can't wait to see the new fucking Thor.
Can't wait to dodge fungal like a boss too!
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I love every change that is in this patch. This is awesome
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I'm loving the big changes since its for a beta, but not liking the protoss ones at all lol =p
Void rays ability seems so.. unusable..? 1 minute cooldown for a +6 dmg against armor is just silly.
Oracle build time seems kinda long for a worker harass unit too imo~
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So slow Reapers are now as fast as stimmed bio, and fast Reapers are now as fast as Hellions.
This should be interesting.
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On December 06 2012 10:06 Qikz wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2012 10:04 sitromit wrote:On December 06 2012 09:53 Plansix wrote:On December 06 2012 09:49 dw.Justify wrote:
Ok i try, first of all medivac changes are much too drastic that cant be the right way. The speed is so high even faster then mutaliscs with new speed ^^. And the healing will be so powerfull its a 60 % healting buff.
Also terran mech is rly rly strong in hots vs P. Just tempest totally owns it but this will not be the case anymore with the new patch. And mech will now be even stronger espc when thor rly has no more energy
I think most zerg changes are ok.
But muta speed... this is not rly necessary makes them just more annyoning but not better in fighting.
Im myself protoss, i think dt shrine is now too cheap but makes me anyway happy :-) dt pwnage but in caste of balance its prob also shit
.
Tempest beeing tier 3 together with carrier and no more + dmg vs massive ground will make it never been played again so tempest is no more new unit.
Blizzard said themselv since toss has now tempest they dont need vortex anymore vs Broodlords. But tempest will not be build against broodlords i guess but time will tell (carriers are better in this case and they also dont rly work).
(tempest dps is 9 vs massive 18) carrier has 25 dps against everything carrier range is 8 first later 14 so its not a big difference between those 2 but im not sure. In every caste the medivac speed and heal is shit this is 4 sure. I find none of your arguments compelling or with any merit. Most of the changes are not about balancing the game, but shacking up the meta game to promote the use of different play styles. If they are OP, they can be toned down. But the patch makes good changes to may of the neglected units and structures in the game. Medivacs are the least neglected units in the game, they did NOT need a buff. Drop play has seriously died out in TvP over the last year, same goes for TvT and even TvZ thanks to fungal. It's promoting drops.
Which game do you play ? i see terran drops when they play bio in 80 % of the games and in 60 % of them its sucessfull now will be 100 % and 95 % sucess (doenst mean winrate but advantage by drop)
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On December 06 2012 10:06 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:Btw help with these terms? I assume it just means Thors are bigger (MORE EPIC LIKE BACK THEN) right? Show nested quote +Thor radius, inner radius, and separation radius increased from 0.8215 to 1. I'm guessing they mean, respectively Size of the visual model Collision size The amount of space a pack of Thors will try to keep with each other, though you can still move them closer and/or have units walk between them (???)
It is to keep marines from hiding under it, which was an issue for the thor previously. I could not see how many units you were facing because the model overlapped them.
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On December 06 2012 10:08 dw.Justify wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2012 10:06 Qikz wrote:On December 06 2012 10:04 sitromit wrote:On December 06 2012 09:53 Plansix wrote:On December 06 2012 09:49 dw.Justify wrote:
Ok i try, first of all medivac changes are much too drastic that cant be the right way. The speed is so high even faster then mutaliscs with new speed ^^. And the healing will be so powerfull its a 60 % healting buff.
Also terran mech is rly rly strong in hots vs P. Just tempest totally owns it but this will not be the case anymore with the new patch. And mech will now be even stronger espc when thor rly has no more energy
I think most zerg changes are ok.
But muta speed... this is not rly necessary makes them just more annyoning but not better in fighting.
Im myself protoss, i think dt shrine is now too cheap but makes me anyway happy :-) dt pwnage but in caste of balance its prob also shit
.
Tempest beeing tier 3 together with carrier and no more + dmg vs massive ground will make it never been played again so tempest is no more new unit.
Blizzard said themselv since toss has now tempest they dont need vortex anymore vs Broodlords. But tempest will not be build against broodlords i guess but time will tell (carriers are better in this case and they also dont rly work).
(tempest dps is 9 vs massive 18) carrier has 25 dps against everything carrier range is 8 first later 14 so its not a big difference between those 2 but im not sure. In every caste the medivac speed and heal is shit this is 4 sure. I find none of your arguments compelling or with any merit. Most of the changes are not about balancing the game, but shacking up the meta game to promote the use of different play styles. If they are OP, they can be toned down. But the patch makes good changes to may of the neglected units and structures in the game. Medivacs are the least neglected units in the game, they did NOT need a buff. Drop play has seriously died out in TvP over the last year, same goes for TvT and even TvZ thanks to fungal. It's promoting drops. Which game do you play ? i see terran drops when they play bio in 80 % of the games and in 60 % of them its sucessfull now will be 100 % and 95 % sucess (doenst mean winrate but advantage by drop)
Drops are common in TvZ, but in TvP they are just distraction in the current metagame more or less and when HT comes into play, drop plays gets obsolete really fast.
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On December 06 2012 10:08 Zealot Lord wrote:
I'm loving the big changes since its for a beta, but not liking the protoss ones at all lol =p
Void rays ability seems so.. unusable..? 1 minute cooldown for a +6 dmg against armor is just silly.
Oracle build time seems kinda long for a worker harass unit too imo~
On a voidray, which attacks as fast as a marine? Ask terrans how they would feel about an ability for +6 damage on a marine for 20 seconds.
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Almost all of these changes are either really amazing, or have good potential so it's good they're being tried out. Really happy with it!!
The only thing is, why oh why did they need to change seeker missile like that? It was such an amazing spell before, one of my favorite in the entire game. Now it's been changed to literally be Yamato Cannon version 2.0, even Grubby was saying this on his stream earlier and that it's a bad idea.
That's really my only gripe though, I like the direction they're going with everything else!
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On December 06 2012 10:06 Qikz wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2012 10:04 sitromit wrote:On December 06 2012 09:53 Plansix wrote:On December 06 2012 09:49 dw.Justify wrote:
Ok i try, first of all medivac changes are much too drastic that cant be the right way. The speed is so high even faster then mutaliscs with new speed ^^. And the healing will be so powerfull its a 60 % healting buff.
Also terran mech is rly rly strong in hots vs P. Just tempest totally owns it but this will not be the case anymore with the new patch. And mech will now be even stronger espc when thor rly has no more energy
I think most zerg changes are ok.
But muta speed... this is not rly necessary makes them just more annyoning but not better in fighting.
Im myself protoss, i think dt shrine is now too cheap but makes me anyway happy :-) dt pwnage but in caste of balance its prob also shit
.
Tempest beeing tier 3 together with carrier and no more + dmg vs massive ground will make it never been played again so tempest is no more new unit.
Blizzard said themselv since toss has now tempest they dont need vortex anymore vs Broodlords. But tempest will not be build against broodlords i guess but time will tell (carriers are better in this case and they also dont rly work).
(tempest dps is 9 vs massive 18) carrier has 25 dps against everything carrier range is 8 first later 14 so its not a big difference between those 2 but im not sure. In every caste the medivac speed and heal is shit this is 4 sure. I find none of your arguments compelling or with any merit. Most of the changes are not about balancing the game, but shacking up the meta game to promote the use of different play styles. If they are OP, they can be toned down. But the patch makes good changes to may of the neglected units and structures in the game. Medivacs are the least neglected units in the game, they did NOT need a buff. Drop play has seriously died out in TvP over the last year, same goes for TvT and even TvZ thanks to fungal. It's promoting drops.
They're already nerfing Infestors heavily. Buffing medivacs insanely is not needed. This makes Mutalisks completely unviable. Medivacs with stim are now faster than Mutalisks, you won't be able to catch them even if you spot them. On top of that if you DO catch them, they'll drop the Marines and they'll go to town on the Mutalisks with 60% more healing. There's no way to cost effectively stop drops. Once marines drop behind mineral lines, between buildings etc, with this much healing, it'll be impossible to kill them with Zerglings.
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On December 06 2012 10:02 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2012 09:58 GolemMadness wrote:
The seeker missile change is a bit uncreative as well. It's basically just a more powerful yamato. I don't think spells like that really have a place in the game anymore with smart casting. Basically just a hard counter to brood lords. Would it not be great to have more transitions/phases of the game? Imagine a bio or mech player adding Ravens to deal with BLs (I think it's much more of a soft counter). The energy takes a while to remake -- this makes the nature of your combined army to be slower, more deathballish/turtlish/defensive. This would then give incentive for zerg to react to that by going back to T1/2 units like bling ling muta. Suddenly your Ravens have no energy and can't help out anyways -- SM only works well against high HP single target units. You're right though, it doesn't feel very unique. Maybe it could be something like a missile that splits into 3 and hits the 2 closest units next to the target, does ~100 damage to all? Well anyway they are definitely going to be patching more after this, so I can't wait to see how much better it will get!
Fungal projectile makes ravens a late game must have for terran. The seeker missile ability is just icing on the cake as it counters Ultras and BLs.
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YES. YES. YEEESSSSSSS!
HYDRA LING TIME, BABY!
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hm on some maps they can be game winner like antiga shipyard and toss has to get a complete bo for defending drops (like playing alot of blinkstalkers first ) so thats not rly the case ...
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On December 06 2012 10:09 Breach_hu wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2012 10:08 dw.Justify wrote:On December 06 2012 10:06 Qikz wrote:On December 06 2012 10:04 sitromit wrote:On December 06 2012 09:53 Plansix wrote:On December 06 2012 09:49 dw.Justify wrote:
Ok i try, first of all medivac changes are much too drastic that cant be the right way. The speed is so high even faster then mutaliscs with new speed ^^. And the healing will be so powerfull its a 60 % healting buff.
Also terran mech is rly rly strong in hots vs P. Just tempest totally owns it but this will not be the case anymore with the new patch. And mech will now be even stronger espc when thor rly has no more energy
I think most zerg changes are ok.
But muta speed... this is not rly necessary makes them just more annyoning but not better in fighting.
Im myself protoss, i think dt shrine is now too cheap but makes me anyway happy :-) dt pwnage but in caste of balance its prob also shit
.
Tempest beeing tier 3 together with carrier and no more + dmg vs massive ground will make it never been played again so tempest is no more new unit.
Blizzard said themselv since toss has now tempest they dont need vortex anymore vs Broodlords. But tempest will not be build against broodlords i guess but time will tell (carriers are better in this case and they also dont rly work).
(tempest dps is 9 vs massive 18) carrier has 25 dps against everything carrier range is 8 first later 14 so its not a big difference between those 2 but im not sure. In every caste the medivac speed and heal is shit this is 4 sure. I find none of your arguments compelling or with any merit. Most of the changes are not about balancing the game, but shacking up the meta game to promote the use of different play styles. If they are OP, they can be toned down. But the patch makes good changes to may of the neglected units and structures in the game. Medivacs are the least neglected units in the game, they did NOT need a buff. Drop play has seriously died out in TvP over the last year, same goes for TvT and even TvZ thanks to fungal. It's promoting drops. Which game do you play ? i see terran drops when they play bio in 80 % of the games and in 60 % of them its sucessfull now will be 100 % and 95 % sucess (doenst mean winrate but advantage by drop) Drops are common in TvZ, but in TvP they are just distraction in the current metagame more or less and when HT comes into play, drop plays gets obsolete really fast.
probably because you can warp in anti drop units to any one of your expansions as soon as you see a dropship...it's too easy for toss to shut it down.
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On December 06 2012 10:09 Breach_hu wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2012 10:08 dw.Justify wrote:On December 06 2012 10:06 Qikz wrote:On December 06 2012 10:04 sitromit wrote:On December 06 2012 09:53 Plansix wrote:On December 06 2012 09:49 dw.Justify wrote:
Ok i try, first of all medivac changes are much too drastic that cant be the right way. The speed is so high even faster then mutaliscs with new speed ^^. And the healing will be so powerfull its a 60 % healting buff.
Also terran mech is rly rly strong in hots vs P. Just tempest totally owns it but this will not be the case anymore with the new patch. And mech will now be even stronger espc when thor rly has no more energy
I think most zerg changes are ok.
But muta speed... this is not rly necessary makes them just more annyoning but not better in fighting.
Im myself protoss, i think dt shrine is now too cheap but makes me anyway happy :-) dt pwnage but in caste of balance its prob also shit
.
Tempest beeing tier 3 together with carrier and no more + dmg vs massive ground will make it never been played again so tempest is no more new unit.
Blizzard said themselv since toss has now tempest they dont need vortex anymore vs Broodlords. But tempest will not be build against broodlords i guess but time will tell (carriers are better in this case and they also dont rly work).
(tempest dps is 9 vs massive 18) carrier has 25 dps against everything carrier range is 8 first later 14 so its not a big difference between those 2 but im not sure. In every caste the medivac speed and heal is shit this is 4 sure. I find none of your arguments compelling or with any merit. Most of the changes are not about balancing the game, but shacking up the meta game to promote the use of different play styles. If they are OP, they can be toned down. But the patch makes good changes to may of the neglected units and structures in the game. Medivacs are the least neglected units in the game, they did NOT need a buff. Drop play has seriously died out in TvP over the last year, same goes for TvT and even TvZ thanks to fungal. It's promoting drops. Which game do you play ? i see terran drops when they play bio in 80 % of the games and in 60 % of them its sucessfull now will be 100 % and 95 % sucess (doenst mean winrate but advantage by drop) Drops are common in TvZ, but in TvP they are just distraction in the current metagame more or less and when HT comes into play, drop plays gets obsolete really fast.
Not to mention Widow mines made dropping TvT much harder to pull off.
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Its whole new game!! everything you thought you know about HoTS has changed!
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Suggestion about ultralisk: add charge back, but make it above ground, straight line charge with very small AoE (but in a line).
We haven't got a unit with that kind of mechanic in the game yet (apart from hellions).
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EPT
