EPTThe next major balance patch - David Kim - Page 16
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Doc Daneeka
United States577 Posts
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Weebem-Na
United States221 Posts
WOO HOOO!! | ||
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Wildmoon
Thailand4189 Posts
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ledarsi
United States475 Posts
Large changes that cause a rough-grade overhaul of the way players approach the game actually get figured out very fast. Even adding a whole new unit will be, in broad strokes, "figured out" in only a matter of days. It's the subtle aspects of the game that take a long time to figure out. In this respect, changing a unit wholesale (or adding or removing something entirely) and changing a unit slightly don't actually have that much of a difference in impact. Consequently, I think Blizzard has been far too conservative with their changes during the beta, and I think many players would agree. Big changes don't really cause the kind of catastrophic ecosystem breakdown that many people suspect is possible. They get figured out, and the game gets shaken out into a new equilibrium very quickly, with months of subtle refinement possible after that point, but the big-picture will remain. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland26494 Posts
On December 04 2012 15:06 ledarsi wrote: It seems to me that Blizzard, and indeed most of the community, massively underestimates the ability of the player base to adapt to changes. Any change will inflict a disruption in the game, however I don't think the magnitude of the change really has any bearing on the difficulty of adjustment for the player base. Large changes that cause a rough-grade overhaul of the way players approach the game actually get figured out very fast. Even adding a whole new unit will be, in broad strokes, "figured out" in only a matter of days. It's the subtle aspects of the game that take a long time to figure out. In this respect, changing a unit wholesale (or adding or removing something entirely) and changing a unit slightly don't actually have that much of a difference in impact. Consequently, I think Blizzard has been far too conservative with their changes during the beta, and I think many players would agree. Big changes don't really cause the kind of catastrophic ecosystem breakdown that many people suspect is possible. They get figured out, and the game gets shaken out into a new equilibrium very quickly, with months of subtle refinement possible after that point, but the big-picture will remain. Did you see my post on HerO? It's not far back mind. It's an example of a change enabling exploration of the warp prism. HerO actually figured a way to use the prism and zealots, but with the overarching aim of playing strategically differently than other Protoss players. It's my personal interpretation of the guy's play I guess, but it's an example of Blizzard trying to encourage harassment subtly, I think a similar example would be say, give DTs an upgrade to allow a temporary speed boost, that you activate. It wouldn't even have to be massive numerically to fix some of their lategame issues (as a unit). For example, you could drop in with your warp prism hidden further back, but not necessarily risk saccing your DTs if they used the speed boost. You'd make a choice to try and retain the units but warpin futher back, vs saccing DTs and trading for say, drone kills. As it is, DT's are kind of 'get them into their base and leave them there'. It would also allow DTs to say, skirt out of a scan radius or whatever and add to their longevity. | ||
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SolidMoose
United States1240 Posts
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happyness
United States2400 Posts
Mutalisk buff to speed and/or acceleration I can sort of get this since mutas are rarely used in TvZ in WoL these days and now with the widow mine they may be useless in that MU. I don't think the speed would help that much for TvZ, and would also make it very difficult for protoss and lead to more silly base trade situations. We'd really like to see more Medivac usage like we saw in Wings for a time in the past. Currently thinking on a cooldown based speed booster ability. The medivac is stil being used I don't see why this is necessary Make Voidray + Phoenix + Oracle combo a viable strat overall Uh, Why? we'd like to maybe test combining the vehicle and air upgrades at the armory. This would be really good | ||
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Koriel
United States19 Posts
On December 04 2012 15:44 happyness wrote: The medivac is stil being used I don't see why this is necessary It seems interesting though, Perhaps the "afterburner" will allow them to outrun mutalisks/vikings for a short time (with cooldown or using energy or both.) Maybe it will have some other effect on the game. Its a change that makes me go...Hmm...its not needed, but hell, lets see how its implemented and used. Maybe it could add something interesting to the game. Its not a game breaking change and it is still beta after all, If it doesn't work out they could just remove it. | ||
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targ
Malaysia445 Posts
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Crawdad
614 Posts
On December 04 2012 15:43 SolidMoose wrote: Not sure why mutas or ultras need a buff, Ultras are generally eschewed in favor of Brood Lords. They're a relatively unpopular unit. | ||
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Tumor
Austria192 Posts
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eviltomahawk
United States11135 Posts
On December 04 2012 15:43 SolidMoose wrote: Not sure why mutas or ultras need a buff, but the rest seems good. Combining terran upgrades would be absolutely crazy, but so helpful. Glad they are starting to focus on fixing up the old units that are not working out. Something needs to be buffed when the Infestor is heavily nerfed. Mutas, Ultras, and Hydras seem to be good choices, especially since the latter two aren't exactly cost-efficient in many situations, especially without Infestor support. | ||
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Yoshi Kirishima
United States10366 Posts
On December 04 2012 17:08 Tumor wrote: I realy hate the idea that every unit needs an ability, why give the Voidray, the ultralisk and the Medivac abilitys? these are good solid units who just need tweeks. we are not at WC3 this is Starcraft. where units are made to fight not use gimicks :/ It can similarly be compared to a powerful skill like Stim. Stim is activateable and drains some HP but gives you a temporary buff. What if this upgrade were passive...? You lose HP very slowly over time, but they still have the same buff. Now, there is less skill/strategy involved because you have less control over your units (can't decide when to stop the HP drain). So while I don't think medivacs should have a speed boost (but it might be interesting, I think I would just like its speed to be unnerfed), it can add more strategy. I think they just need to be careful that too many skills are necessary at the very start of the battles, which creates a lot of stress. Having spells be used before and maybe towards the ends of battles could be nice, but I think we have enough positioning/spells to deal with in engagements right now. | ||
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SnipedSoul
Canada2158 Posts
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Thereisnosaurus
Australia1822 Posts
I like the changes alot! Not to be a downer, but what changes. What you are seeing are design goals, not implementations. Blizzard's design goals have always been to make an amazingly dynamic, balanced game. They have fallen short in a lot of ways. The actual implementation of the HotS units and mechanics leave me wondering if some of the design team took a big pay cut in best case scenarios, suffered a mild frontal lobotomy. From showcasing things like the replicant to their 'solution' for the reaper, I don't know what they've been smoking. Whatever it is it's put a severe dent in my trust in blizzard's design studio. Frankly, they don't know what they're doing. I don't know why, I don't know what's gone wrong, but something has. I just hope they hit on something decent throwing blind darts. | ||
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Fus
Sweden1112 Posts
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Howl41
United States65 Posts
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Testuser
6469 Posts
On December 04 2012 03:58 Piousflea wrote: These changes all sound awesome I think the most obvious Tempest nerf is to make the anti-Massive bonus only work vs Air. Protoss have no Answer to Colossi and BLs in WoL. Tempest kills both quite efficiently. It doesn't need to counter Thors or ultras, Toss already have immortals for that. Dark Templars should get a speed+Blink upgrade. It makes sense given their lore, and would greatly improve their ability to punish any lack of detection without making them a deathball unit like archons. If Bliz is considering a true "heavy nerf" for infestors - just take away the ability to hit air with Fungal. (Like in old old WoL beta) Voila, they've suddenly fixed muta, VR/Phoenix, mass bio drop, and Banshee viability, while also increasing the role of the Hydralisk. Dark Templars with blink would seriously be the shit. | ||
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pmp10
3390 Posts
I'm not sure if they given those deign goals much thought. | ||
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uh-oh
Hong Kong135 Posts
Other than that I like what I saw. The fast nimble air toss army seems cool, and it' good to know the they're encouraging mobile swarm host play. | ||
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