EPTMy take: "#SaveHOTS" - Page 6
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FlukyS
Ireland485 Posts
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Gretorp
United States586 Posts
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Belha
Italy2850 Posts
On October 18 2012 13:53 Gretorp wrote: But keep in mind everyone, we complain so much about maps and how maps are created, yet we don't realize how much the units affect how the maps are created. I challenge all of you to think of a way to make it so forcefield works in all P matchups with 3rd bases, and protoss doesnt have some big advantage or big disadvantage. It's super difficult! Totally agree. Maps are the way they are, just to try to patch game flaws. With a better design, diverse maps would be posible. Two things should change about the in-game stuff (go to destiny post to check about side-game changes that must be done): Infestor: Is the most atrocious unit in the game, even worse than ff. Remove the root on the units, jesus. Global Dps: With the faster "in-game" time + clumped units + a lot of aoe, the REAL TIME (aka spectator time) dps, is plain INSANELY HIGH. So most battles are short as fuck, and there is no time to enjoy some back and forth pushes (a crap to spectate). Oh, yeah, and micro is much more worthless (just positioning is important), again, crappy for the spectator. | ||
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zhurai
United States5660 Posts
On October 18 2012 13:28 ElMeanYo wrote: I like both Fungal and Force Fields exactly the way they are. As someone who doesn't play but has watched every season of MLG/NASL/GSL, I can say that these two spells have a great 'wow' factor when someone skilled pulls it off. And a more subtle wow when the other player micro's his units to mitigate their effects. It makes it an exciting struggle and SC2 needs more of that, not less. This is not SC1, Blizz should not try to make it like SC1. SC2 has its own identity with these abilities and I would hate to see them changed. how is fungal... in any way a "wow" factor. | ||
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Vei
United States2845 Posts
Remove fungal too or at least the micro-countering aspect if it's needed, but god, FFs are FAR too dominant and FAR too boring and FAR too influential on map design. Wonderful post. | ||
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sc2pal
Poland624 Posts
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MarcusWC
Canada55 Posts
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-Kyo-
Japan1927 Posts
or infestors -> fungal -> cant micro -> instantly lose everything The matchup at end game is 100% based almost 100% based on mothership control which is clunky and infuriating. If they do nothing to change it I imagine more and more people will drift away from something that isn't even appealing to the players; let alone to watch everything instantly die with no suspense, micro, or ability factor. | ||
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johnny123
521 Posts
( just my little nit picking) | ||
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synapse
China13814 Posts
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Antoine
United States7481 Posts
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IceEnd
Chile6 Posts
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GHOSTCLAW
United States17042 Posts
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Oakwarrior
Estonia31 Posts
But, consider the following: HotS will see the Sentry having non-researched Hallucinations. Infested Terrans can be used to block pathing. Entomb covers minerals with an attackable unit-like entity. Never in my playtime in StarCraft II have I understood why I cannot simply destroy FF's with attacks. Massive units do not come out fast enough to matter, and when they do they are usually useless as hell due to their inherent sluggishness. I have always found it weird for Protoss to have an ability which can basically negate any sort of ground-based reinforcements (or army for that matter) from a given area. I can see how this might be cool, high-tech and lore-friendly, but honestly, from a gameplay perspective it's frustrating and ungraceful, which makes it a bore to watch. I always cringe when I see Sentries FF a ramp indefinitely and you have freaking TANKS or goddamn-near huge biological beasts and they simply slither about, doing absolutely nothing. The bottom line is, that not even ONCE has the casting energy, ability radius or cooldown changed for FF. The only "massive" change was the vulnerability to massive units, and that's it. It's almost a non-issue as it was basically designed (how I see it) to enable the same Protoss player who laid down the FF's to clear a path with his own Colossi, to set up a new batch of FF's further in. Other than that, zero change to the ideology of the Sentry whatsoever, and that has been a mistake. This led to stagnant tactics such as FFE, which almost always ends up being a Gateway/Colossus army into Toilet, with no real innovation needed, due to the defensive/offensive capabilities of the Sentry. It's holding absolutely everything back, exactly as Gretorp pointed out. I respect your opinion immensely, man, and I cannot agree more. I can see how re-balancing or re-designing the Sentry can be a daunting task, because that would open up a lot of issues that can just be solved with, you guessed it, FF. It's bad to see map design fall into a hole because of a couple of units (Tank, Sentry, Infestor, for example) being just a bit too effective. If it's a PvX game, then it pretty much boils down to Sentries and their counters thereof. Having the Sentry in the Protoss lineup as it is now is harsh for the developers as well, because introducing new units that fit in well into that sort of balance mess is difficult - I can see why there are so many new air units. I've had a couple of ideas bouncing in my head how to destroy/mitigate FF's in early to mid game, which include Fungal/EMP/A-click/cooldowns/etc., but I don't see Blizzard implementing those kind of changes any time soon because it's kinda more convenient to just let that unit stay the same and change only some of the others, if at all. Because, if you change the Sentry, there's a lot more to change and it will snowball from there (this is NOT a bad thing, by the way). | ||
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Crawdad
614 Posts
They are completely in the dark as to what is actually going on in their game. | ||
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Nirel
Israel1526 Posts
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Oakwarrior
Estonia31 Posts
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Powster
United States650 Posts
I doubt they will do it though.. they are trying to earn money fast not make a great game. A great game can wait for a few years after the last expansion to them.. | ||
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seodoth
Netherlands319 Posts
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Myrddraal
Australia937 Posts
In your musings about the Sentry and Gateway units I think you have skipped the real reason why Gateway units are weak to begin with. It's because of Warpgate negating the defenders advantage of reinforcement time. This negation means that gateway units need to be weak/not cost effective against their same tier equivalents and Sentry is actually what is used to bring them up to par, not the other way round. So if the Sentry and Forcefield are your biggest concern, I would recommend a solution that helps Protoss early game that does not come from the gateway. For example a unit straight from the Robo or Stargate (as in does not require additional tech) that deals splash damage. This way Protoss could be cost effective with a unit that still has to walk all the way across the map and requires more tech than Warpgate, so will be less effective in all-ins. As for lategame PvZ I don't see much mention of the Broodlord, the reason why Archon toilets are used is because it is so ridiculously difficult to cost efficiently deal with Brood Lord + Infestor. With the introduction of the Swarm Host I seriously think that Brood Lords need to be reworked in some way, if they were changed to a projectile with a bit of an area of effect I think that would be fine as I feel that the broodlings capacity to "bug out" or attract fire of units is too powerful and not very spectator friendly. As it stands Zerg currently gets "free" units from Infestors, Brood Lord AND Swarm hosts, and I really think that is too much. Brood Lings + Infested Terran's are already potentially imbalanced as it is let alone giving Zerg even more free units to play with. So if my proposed change was made I would be happy to have Vortex removed. | ||
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