EPTMy take: "#SaveHOTS" - Page 7
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Grimmyman123
Canada939 Posts
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papaz
Sweden4149 Posts
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ChanmanV
United States1156 Posts
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Gremlin119
15 Posts
On October 18 2012 09:45 Thaniri wrote: Blizzard doesn't care. Starcraft can't turn the same profit that WoW did. Blizzard seems to be a company, more than a game producer. They care about maximizing profits, not necessarily making a good game. Wrath of the lich, cataclysm, diablo 3, many aspects of sc2, and finally mists of pandaria all together combine to prove that blizzard is chasing dollars. Blizzard needs to FIRST go back to WC3 style battle.net. With the same type of chat, customs games, and profiles, THEN BEGIN TO BALANCE. With the fundamental anti-social aspect of battle.net 0.2, it does not matter how good your game is, because people wont be playing with their friends. yeah - ever since activision bought blizzard they have just been looking for ways to make more money. Which is kind of ironic since they won't be making any more at the rate they are going. Anyway, great ideas gretorp very interesting read. thanks for taking the time to post this. | ||
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Razac
Netherlands101 Posts
Units needed to be tweaked/changed/removed: -Thor -Mothership -BattleCruiser -Widow Mine -Tempest / carrier -> Remove tempest add micro for carrier -Raven (tweaking in numbers) -Infestor (fundell nerf) -Swarmhost -Tank (if you want mech to work in TvP (i want that badly) then this unit needs to change if only in stats) | ||
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The_Frozen_Inferno
Canada98 Posts
And if you look through the custom map making community, you'll find at least a few map projects that have already attempted to 'take SC2 balance into their own hands.' Some of them have quite radical changes in design and balance compared to standard WoL. And some of them have actually just added the BW to SC2 that many people say will simply fix the game. Granted, many of them are just supposed to be fun and not necessarily balanced or competitive. That being said, I don't know why the TL community doesn't do something similar and hold its own 'PTR' and get some map makers to do the modding so that we can actually find out whether or not having destructible forcefields, sentries with chrono rift, infestors with consume, raven EMPs and ghost snipe (50 - 25 vs massive) actually accomplishes anything. (get people using that shiny new Arcade tab!) Maybe, like with Nony's post on carrier micro, an eloquent and elegant demonstration of the things we want will be more effective/efficient in getting Blizzard to consider changes rather than thread after thread after thread of 'mere speculation on design' | ||
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Serpest
United States603 Posts
Why hasn't Blizzard been challenged on this point? Or if they have: why has the community let Blizzard respond noncommittally? We have this thread by Gretorp with several fine ideas that focus on core design elements of different races. We have the theorycrafting of ItWhoSpeaks' documentary mini-series on the differences in race mechanics/supply/design between bw and sc2. There is a treasure trove of all these ideas that seem absurd upon first hearing them, but after thinking about the issues and the problems all these people try to resolve, I'm left wondering why we have let this happen? Browder himself said: he's surprised the community hasn't recreated bw in wol. If I recall correctly, sc2:bw came out sometime in 2010 (strange that....) Ignoring the issue that obviously the lead developer spends almost no time whatsoever browsing bnet 0.2 and just using it for ladder (which means that he's a bit clueless when it comes to the social aspect the bw/wc3 bnet had that sc2 (and coincidentally d3) don't), I'm wondering why the community hasn't mobilized en mass to create a viable tournament worthy game that corrects all the issues WoL brings to the table while still keeping the game distinct from bw? WC3 and BW had a phenomenal custom game scene partially because of the community and partially because of bnet. Granted the bnet of yesterday is better than the bnet of today, but the community has grown - has it not? ____________________________________________ tl;dr: I'm confused why the community lets Blizzard dictate how the game should develop when the community consistently comes up with new innovative ideas that tackle the heart of blizz's design errors, and that promote and grow viewer and player experiences for the better. | ||
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PVJ
Hungary5221 Posts
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Notfragile
Greece713 Posts
I am worried that the current HoTS will be a fancier WoL, not a radical change to what problems WoL has been proven to have. This could be changed, maybe, if the devs take a look at this... maybe... | ||
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Amui
Canada10567 Posts
About forcefield - protoss in its current state will get absolutely trashed by both terran and zerg armies in the midgame without forcefield. This is fact. Before the lategame mass AoE of protoss comes out, they actually have trash dps as a whole army, mainly due to stalkers and sentries being ranged units with very low DPS output and high cost. - Protoss is absolutely reliant on forcefields to survive/attack early/midgame(some exceptions, I know). Remember the early days of SC2, when all terran had to do was stim up your ramp while you weren't looking for a free win? My proposed solution would be to have forcefields act closer to balloons of a sort. What I mean by this is that units will still attempt to path through forcefields, and instead of being stopped, they are slowed(could be movement only or with minor attack speed slow as well) increasingly as they approach the center of the FF(something like 50%->90%?) and once they hit the center, the forcefield bursts. All units that forcefield is cast upon act as they do currently(pushed aside). Retain a defensive advantage for forcefields, and some of the offensive potential, but there is now potential for counterplay AND being able to force a fight if you reckon your advantage is large enough to go through forcefields, losses be damned. As for fungal, there are so many suggested fixes for it I don't think I need to add any more. | ||
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Superouman
France2195 Posts
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Highways
Australia6124 Posts
Rather than fixing major design issues of the game all Blizzard is doing is adding a few units. | ||
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Insoleet
France1806 Posts
On October 18 2012 17:16 Highways wrote: Completely agree. Rather than fixing major design issues of the game all Blizzard is doing is adding a few units. Blizzard said in interviews that they would fix design/balance issues after adding the new units. | ||
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blade55555
United States17423 Posts
On October 18 2012 16:11 Razac wrote: Sorry, i dont see how this will fix Protoss. I dont think Protoss needs fixing in the first place, forcefields are cool i dont see a problem at all with them. Some units need to be reworked / removed for sure in HOTS but the centry is not on that list. Units needed to be tweaked/changed/removed: -Thor -Mothership -BattleCruiser -Widow Mine -Tempest / carrier -> Remove tempest add micro for carrier -Raven (tweaking in numbers) -Infestor (fundell nerf) -Swarmhost -Tank (if you want mech to work in TvP (i want that badly) then this unit needs to change if only in stats) I find it funny how you think a spell that negates micro from the other player is cool but imagine that you don't like fungel. Honestly both need to be modified, I would say the thing I miss the most about bw is not having to worry about a unit that prevents my units from moving. I would kill for both spells to be gone and both races balanced to compensate for it. Anti-micro spells are just so boring, I never see forcefields go down and think "oh my god that was so badass", same with fungel I never think "holy shit that was so awesome how he fungeled those units!" To bad I don't think anything will ever be done about those 2 :/. | ||
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Nerchio
Poland2633 Posts
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Velr
Switzerland10978 Posts
Nothing happened... And as it seems nothing will... | ||
Teoita
Italy12248 Posts
PvP will always be a warpgate-timing fest if you don't allow a single forcefield to fully block off a ramp to prevent a high ground warp-in, as we see on maps like TDA, and as we saw back in the day when you could warp in above the forcefield. The reason PvP has evolved as much as it has in this last year or so is because 4gates are more easily defendible with greedier opening. If you can defend with a greedier opening, you can go into the midgame with more developed tech, so now we see stuff like blink obs and robo stargate. Back in the day, teching to two things at once would have been either incredibly dangerous (because modern PvP openings aren't safe vs the older 4gates), or incredibly slow, so by the time the other guy has his one base blink/colossus/phoenix timing ready, you are much much more likely to die. tl;dr: it's not just sentries that screw up Protoss, it's the combination of sentries and warpgate that do. If you change one you also have to drastically tweak the other in order to not screw PvP up completely. edit: @Nerchio: as a pro player, do you think it would be worth it to invest time and effort into that PTR, trying to sort out the game's design, instead of pracitcing? I feel like for an actual pro, it would probably not be worth it, and they would rather practice a game that's not as good to keep posting good enough results to "get to the end of the month". | ||
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Kaleidos
Italy172 Posts
I don't necessarily agree with the removal of the Mothership ..what about the M.Core's destiny then? You could merge the new unit you mentioned and the M.Core in one unit, but the problem with the Mamaship is called Vortex, not the unit it's self imho. I think Blizzy already got the message about "we want fungal to change". The community voice hasn't been as much loud about forcefield tho, so i really hope they read this thread! | ||
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Teoita
Italy12248 Posts
On October 18 2012 17:37 Kaleidos wrote: Great analysys about the forcefield and the spell caster role. I don't necessarily agree with the removal of the Mothership ..what about the M.Core's destiny then? You could merge the new unit you mentioned and the M.Core in one unit, but the problem with the Mamaship is called Vortex, not the unit it's self imho. I think Blizzy already got the message about "we want fungal to change". The community voice hasn't been as much loud about forcefield tho, so i really hope they read this thread! The problem with a unit like the mothership is that it's either useless (PvT) or completely game breaking to the point where a matchup/situation is balanced around it (PvZ), and it's balanced in a very poor way at that. | ||
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PredY
Czech Republic1731 Posts
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