EPT
HotS Balance Update #6 10/12/12 - Page 25
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vgijamven
Sweden95 Posts
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QRhere
France23 Posts
On October 15 2012 15:10 pure.Wasted wrote: This is what pros are capable of. And you're whining about the loss of queue harass? Really? Really? Would it actually surprise you to learn that I'm not the least bit sympathetic to the plight of those who can't order one unit to move ahead of another one? If Z suspects T has a mine, lead with an Overlord or an Overseer, problem solved. Period. Seriously, any Z will have an Ovie there already for scouting purposes, just push in 5 seconds before you go in with Mutas, soak up the damage, and for forty seconds that mine is useless. And the Ovie isn't even dead. Your example from beginning to end has "gold league" written all over it. "0 focus required from terran player." The Mine is so easily negated, the T will have to focus on it to get any use out of it, except if his opponent is so stressed out that he can't properly multitask. But poor multitasking should be punished. Truer words have never been spoken. Amen my friend. I strongly believe Blizzard will keep the mine as it is, design-wise, and they're right to do so. | ||
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SorrowShine
698 Posts
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dynwar7
1983 Posts
Blinding cloud buffed. Terran mines take longer. This is only in Beta and....I guess they are still nerfing Terran.. | ||
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QRhere
France23 Posts
On October 15 2012 16:32 dynwar7 wrote: Sentry Hallucination no longer requires research Blinding cloud buffed. Terran mines take longer. This is only in Beta and....I guess they are still nerfing Terran.. T seems pretty strong to me in the beta. | ||
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
On October 15 2012 16:32 dynwar7 wrote: Sentry Hallucination no longer requires research Blinding cloud buffed. Terran mines take longer. This is only in Beta and....I guess they are still nerfing Terran.. Yeah right, all those nerfs to widow mines since day1 of the beta: Balance Update #1-#4: -) Widow mines will no longer damage each other with their splash damage. -) We have removed the Armory requirement. -) Splash damage has increased from 35 to 60. -) The duration of Activate Mine has been decreased to 2 sec. -) Auto-cast can now be turned off in both activated and deactivated modes. Yeah, they were all about making Terran units worse!!! Then they overhauled that unit - of course to the worse, because who wants burrowed rocket launchers instead of self-suiciding mines!?!?! And now that. Balance update #6: -) The setup time for this unit has been increased from 2 seconds to 3 seconds. I mean... another one second, are they mad? When did blizzard ever do something that dramatical to the other races? | ||
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larse
1611 Posts
This is a change from a strategic game where you use revelation to highlight swarm host and snipe them with long-range siege weapon, the tempest, to another a-move stupidity. Oh dear Blizzard. | ||
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Sissors
1395 Posts
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xzidez
Sweden147 Posts
On October 15 2012 17:06 Sissors wrote: Same as before, now kill corrupters first? Either they die, or they retreat and you go kill the swarmhost. Id say the problem is more that you need both robo and stargate to be able to handle the swarmhosts.. If you have the tempests without observer it aint worth much.. And if you open robo first you will have to put in quite the investment for your first tempests... You are probably better of colossus and gateway units from this position. Aaaand we are back where stargate only is viable superlategame.... Edit: On a side-note.. feels like protoss is the race that needs something like the new widowmine... but that aint happening unless it comes from the stargate I guess : p.. | ||
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larse
1611 Posts
On October 15 2012 17:14 xzidez wrote: Id say the problem is more that you need both robo and stargate to be able to handle the swarmhosts.. If you have the tempests without observer it aint worth much.. And if you open robo first you will have to put in quite the investment for your first tempests... You are probably better of colossus and gateway units from this position. Aaaand we are back where stargate only is viable superlategame.... Edit: On a side-note.. feels like protoss is the race that needs something like the new widowmine... but that aint happening unless it comes from the stargate I guess : p.. Going stargate doesn't forbid you from building a robo in the mid-game. It doesn't cost much even you go skytoss. It's ok. The problem is that without detected revelation, late-game swarm host + detection + air units are another pain in the ass and boring a-move battle between protoss and zerg. The old revelation + tempest was genius to change a lot of things in PvZ late-game. Now it's 50% gone. | ||
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
Man I want to play that beta... All I can do is theorycraft around without having a clue whether this works out timing/ressourcewise  | ||
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Kharnage
Australia920 Posts
On October 15 2012 15:10 pure.Wasted wrote: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3cB-6MrsDsQ&feature=related This is what pros are capable of. And you're whining about the loss of queue harass? Really? Really? Would it actually surprise you to learn that I'm not the least bit sympathetic to the plight of those who can't order one unit to move ahead of another one? If Z suspects T has a mine, lead with an Overlord or an Overseer, problem solved. Period. Seriously, any Z will have an Ovie there already for scouting purposes, just push in 5 seconds before you go in with Mutas, soak up the damage, and for forty seconds that mine is useless. And the Ovie isn't even dead. Your example from beginning to end has "gold league" written all over it. "0 focus required from terran player." The Mine is so easily negated, the T will have to focus on it to get any use out of it, except if his opponent is so stressed out that he can't properly multitask. But poor multitasking should be punished. Well done, you found a clip from a different game doing something completely different. Well, now i'm convinced. Fine, 2 mines. they are stupidly cheap in all aspects except supply, which only matter when the terran maxes out. Basically your argument is that players should be punished for poor multitasking, except terran who have a burrowed baneling with 5 range and auto cast that reloads every 40 seconds. Maybe I'll declare you must be a silver league and therefore your point of view is invalid. The amount of focus required to get any use out of mines is the same as planting a cannon. Move, burrow. Done. Now all the work is on the other guy. At most the T player will move their workers towards their mines when harassed. Harsh man. Point well made! Leading with an overseer might deal with 1 mine, maybe even 2, though you will lose the seer to tank the 2nd hit, buying the zerg '40 seconds' of harass time (for 150/50, but never mind that) leaving the terran in exactly the same position they were in before adding mines. If the terran has a viking cleaning up OL around their base then you won't have those options, and never mind that they would be insanely slow for the task without the speed upgrade. But hey, that's ok cause it's a huge cost and risk to the terran right. They have to build a factory, which they would never get otherwise. It also requires that other building ... oh, that's right. It doesn't. You can just make a few, plant them around your base and now it's super risky for a zerg to fly in. That justifies the 800/800 the zerg player sunk into 8 mutalisks. Try and put your bias and your BS about how your 1000point master in Kr and i'm a gold scrub or whatever to one side for a sec and ask yourself. As a zerg, would you EVER go muta vs terran over infestor now that widow mines are in the game? Under what conditions would you consider that good choice? | ||
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Crawdad
614 Posts
On October 15 2012 17:27 Big J wrote: Couldn't you just have tempests out on the map sniping stuff, attacking swarm hosts when they move out and force burrows, now that they are T2? Take the MSC with you, and recall if you get attacked by too much antiair... You still need mobile detection. Unless you proxy Nexus right next to the Swarm Hosts and cast Purify, like Blizzard apparently wants us to do. | ||
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MiCroLiFe
Norway274 Posts
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Qikz
United Kingdom12023 Posts
On October 15 2012 18:14 Crawdad wrote: You still need mobile detection. Unless you proxy Nexus right next to the Swarm Hosts and cast Purify, like Blizzard apparently wants us to do. Or you could get an observer, which most tosses will do anyway. In BW you needed 2! yes 2 buildings to get an observer and people no matter what builds they were using went and got them. | ||
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Fragile51
Netherlands15767 Posts
On October 15 2012 18:16 BimBoHunTeR wrote: So it begins. Power up zerg and protoss, and nerf terran. ill quit sc soon. Nobody gives a damn, stop cluttering the thread. I like basically every change made save for the detection changes, but i think they are intentionally going way overboard with that so that they can accurately judge what effect it will have on the game. As it is right now DT's and cloakshees are practically useless, which is not a good thing indeed. I guess they are just trying to find a way for races to deal with widow mines without having to change widow mines itself. If that's the correct way to go about it, time will tell. | ||
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DeCoder
Finland236 Posts
On October 14 2012 21:51 Hattori_Hanzo wrote: At the present strength it is does inflict significant damage enough to consider it a threat. 1 min is extremely long. Well, a Protoss pylon blocking a Zerg ramp is (was) a threat as well, but it's still lame. | ||
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
On October 15 2012 19:03 DeCoder wrote: Well, a Protoss pylon blocking a Zerg ramp is (was) a threat as well, but it's still lame. and has nothing in common with entomb. Entomb stops mining and forces units and attention to deal with the mineral shields. A pylon/bunker block makes playing standard strategies impossible and most of the time straight up wins the game. | ||
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Cereb
Denmark3388 Posts
 But I still don't quite understand why the widow mine needs to hit air? It's suppoed to be a space controlling unit right? Well it seems the only map controlling flyer that can potentially give terran problems is the mutalisk? Muta ling bane created some of the most fun tvz. Nowadays they have been replaced by the infestor in most of the games (not all) because infestors already are the better choice in a lot of situations. I don't understand why they need to add an element that will make mutas even worse...? Also entomb is still an awesome ability !! | ||
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GohgamX
Canada1096 Posts
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