I do agree that the Widow Mines needs to be nerfed or removed and give Terran an actual unit and not some gimmicky crap.
What? Widow Mines so far are by far the best unit in the expansion in terms of being designed really well without borrowing ideas from other units.
I sincerely hope that you are trolling.
Widow mines are amazing. It creates a lot of positional play and makes TvX an interesting dynamism
No it doesn't. It makes Bio TvT completely obsolete.
No, it just means A-move across the map with your MMM is obsolete. It takes between 3-5 scans to move across most maps. Then secure your attack paths with widow mines of your own.
There, not obsolete again.
I don't know what kind of maps you play to have 3-5 scans cover base distances. Ravens are very expensive and come out relatively late. Mines shuts down drops too which is a big part of playing bio. Simply put, Widow Mines take away mobility which is the sole advantage of MMM.
Also if you need Widow Mines to secure attack paths then there is no point in going bio because you are splitting resources into 2 tech paths. You will be better off just going straight mech.
It's called a macro OC. Widow mines have changed the dynamics of Terran. Deal with it. Marauders are range 6.
Now you're just exaggerating. Placing two widow mines near or around the place you wish to drop is total of 300 min, 100 gas, less than two siege tanks.
So I have to blow all my energy on scans just so my army doesn't get blown up by something that cost 75 minerals and 25 gas while the opponent can mule all day. Yep, it does change the dynamics.
Marauders are range 6 so what? They still can't do anything if there's no detection which still comes back to blowing scans just to avoid mines. Keep in mind they aren't Banelings either. Banelings die when they explode while mines don't.
What do you mean placing mines at the place I'm going to drop? You aren't making any sense. The mines have to get there somehow and I doubt any good player will allow 2 enemy mines in his or her base.
No...
You scan the terrain your medivacs will fly past enroute to the LZ (landing zone), then place widow mines two at a time along the route.
This is actually a good thing as it'll catch mid-game vikings trying to stop an incoming drop.
I see what you are misunderstanding now. It doesn't matter if the path to the opponent's base is clear. As long as there are mines AT THE OPPONENT'S base, the drop won't work because the Medivac will get blown up.
On October 14 2012 17:25 habeck wrote: In Order to make one stupid unti effective, they make others inaffective, so lame...
It's called new technology. In other news, Mongolia complains to the UN for their composite bows and arrows to be effective against tanks and fighter planes. "It's not fair we can't hit them."
What? Widow Mines so far are by far the best unit in the expansion in terms of being designed really well without borrowing ideas from other units.
I sincerely hope that you are trolling.
Widow mines are amazing. It creates a lot of positional play and makes TvX an interesting dynamism
No it doesn't. It makes Bio TvT completely obsolete.
No, it just means A-move across the map with your MMM is obsolete. It takes between 3-5 scans to move across most maps. Then secure your attack paths with widow mines of your own.
There, not obsolete again.
I don't know what kind of maps you play to have 3-5 scans cover base distances. Ravens are very expensive and come out relatively late. Mines shuts down drops too which is a big part of playing bio. Simply put, Widow Mines take away mobility which is the sole advantage of MMM.
Also if you need Widow Mines to secure attack paths then there is no point in going bio because you are splitting resources into 2 tech paths. You will be better off just going straight mech.
It's called a macro OC. Widow mines have changed the dynamics of Terran. Deal with it. Marauders are range 6.
Now you're just exaggerating. Placing two widow mines near or around the place you wish to drop is total of 300 min, 100 gas, less than two siege tanks.
So I have to blow all my energy on scans just so my army doesn't get blown up by something that cost 75 minerals and 25 gas while the opponent can mule all day. Yep, it does change the dynamics.
Marauders are range 6 so what? They still can't do anything if there's no detection which still comes back to blowing scans just to avoid mines. Keep in mind they aren't Banelings either. Banelings die when they explode while mines don't.
What do you mean placing mines at the place I'm going to drop? You aren't making any sense. The mines have to get there somehow and I doubt any good player will allow 2 enemy mines in his or her base.
No...
You scan the terrain your medivacs will fly past enroute to the LZ (landing zone), then place widow mines two at a time along the route.
This is actually a good thing as it'll catch mid-game vikings trying to stop an incoming drop.
I see what you are misunderstanding now. It doesn't matter if the path to the opponent's base is clear. As long as there are mines AT THE OPPONENT'S base, the drop won't work because the Medivac will get blown up.
Widow mines are amazing. It creates a lot of positional play and makes TvX an interesting dynamism
No it doesn't. It makes Bio TvT completely obsolete.
No, it just means A-move across the map with your MMM is obsolete. It takes between 3-5 scans to move across most maps. Then secure your attack paths with widow mines of your own.
There, not obsolete again.
I don't know what kind of maps you play to have 3-5 scans cover base distances. Ravens are very expensive and come out relatively late. Mines shuts down drops too which is a big part of playing bio. Simply put, Widow Mines take away mobility which is the sole advantage of MMM.
Also if you need Widow Mines to secure attack paths then there is no point in going bio because you are splitting resources into 2 tech paths. You will be better off just going straight mech.
It's called a macro OC. Widow mines have changed the dynamics of Terran. Deal with it. Marauders are range 6.
Now you're just exaggerating. Placing two widow mines near or around the place you wish to drop is total of 300 min, 100 gas, less than two siege tanks.
So I have to blow all my energy on scans just so my army doesn't get blown up by something that cost 75 minerals and 25 gas while the opponent can mule all day. Yep, it does change the dynamics.
Marauders are range 6 so what? They still can't do anything if there's no detection which still comes back to blowing scans just to avoid mines. Keep in mind they aren't Banelings either. Banelings die when they explode while mines don't.
What do you mean placing mines at the place I'm going to drop? You aren't making any sense. The mines have to get there somehow and I doubt any good player will allow 2 enemy mines in his or her base.
No...
You scan the terrain your medivacs will fly past enroute to the LZ (landing zone), then place widow mines two at a time along the route.
This is actually a good thing as it'll catch mid-game vikings trying to stop an incoming drop.
I see what you are misunderstanding now. It doesn't matter if the path to the opponent's base is clear. As long as there are mines AT THE OPPONENT'S base, the drop won't work because the Medivac will get blown up.
That's what the the money scan / macro OC is for.
I scan and see mines. So what? Still doesn't change the fact that mines shut down drops.
On October 14 2012 13:17 dragonblade369 wrote: [quote]
Widow mines are amazing. It creates a lot of positional play and makes TvX an interesting dynamism
No it doesn't. It makes Bio TvT completely obsolete.
No, it just means A-move across the map with your MMM is obsolete. It takes between 3-5 scans to move across most maps. Then secure your attack paths with widow mines of your own.
There, not obsolete again.
I don't know what kind of maps you play to have 3-5 scans cover base distances. Ravens are very expensive and come out relatively late. Mines shuts down drops too which is a big part of playing bio. Simply put, Widow Mines take away mobility which is the sole advantage of MMM.
Also if you need Widow Mines to secure attack paths then there is no point in going bio because you are splitting resources into 2 tech paths. You will be better off just going straight mech.
It's called a macro OC. Widow mines have changed the dynamics of Terran. Deal with it. Marauders are range 6.
Now you're just exaggerating. Placing two widow mines near or around the place you wish to drop is total of 300 min, 100 gas, less than two siege tanks.
So I have to blow all my energy on scans just so my army doesn't get blown up by something that cost 75 minerals and 25 gas while the opponent can mule all day. Yep, it does change the dynamics.
Marauders are range 6 so what? They still can't do anything if there's no detection which still comes back to blowing scans just to avoid mines. Keep in mind they aren't Banelings either. Banelings die when they explode while mines don't.
What do you mean placing mines at the place I'm going to drop? You aren't making any sense. The mines have to get there somehow and I doubt any good player will allow 2 enemy mines in his or her base.
No...
You scan the terrain your medivacs will fly past enroute to the LZ (landing zone), then place widow mines two at a time along the route.
This is actually a good thing as it'll catch mid-game vikings trying to stop an incoming drop.
I see what you are misunderstanding now. It doesn't matter if the path to the opponent's base is clear. As long as there are mines AT THE OPPONENT'S base, the drop won't work because the Medivac will get blown up.
That's what the the money scan / macro OC is for.
I scan and see mines. So what? Still doesn't change the fact that mines shut down drops.
Would need a banshee then. :-/ Good for pointing that out.
I'm guessing then, that rax > expand > banshee harass into drops would then become the norm for TvT bio. Yes, it'll delay.
No it doesn't. It makes Bio TvT completely obsolete.
No, it just means A-move across the map with your MMM is obsolete. It takes between 3-5 scans to move across most maps. Then secure your attack paths with widow mines of your own.
There, not obsolete again.
I don't know what kind of maps you play to have 3-5 scans cover base distances. Ravens are very expensive and come out relatively late. Mines shuts down drops too which is a big part of playing bio. Simply put, Widow Mines take away mobility which is the sole advantage of MMM.
Also if you need Widow Mines to secure attack paths then there is no point in going bio because you are splitting resources into 2 tech paths. You will be better off just going straight mech.
It's called a macro OC. Widow mines have changed the dynamics of Terran. Deal with it. Marauders are range 6.
Now you're just exaggerating. Placing two widow mines near or around the place you wish to drop is total of 300 min, 100 gas, less than two siege tanks.
So I have to blow all my energy on scans just so my army doesn't get blown up by something that cost 75 minerals and 25 gas while the opponent can mule all day. Yep, it does change the dynamics.
Marauders are range 6 so what? They still can't do anything if there's no detection which still comes back to blowing scans just to avoid mines. Keep in mind they aren't Banelings either. Banelings die when they explode while mines don't.
What do you mean placing mines at the place I'm going to drop? You aren't making any sense. The mines have to get there somehow and I doubt any good player will allow 2 enemy mines in his or her base.
No...
You scan the terrain your medivacs will fly past enroute to the LZ (landing zone), then place widow mines two at a time along the route.
This is actually a good thing as it'll catch mid-game vikings trying to stop an incoming drop.
I see what you are misunderstanding now. It doesn't matter if the path to the opponent's base is clear. As long as there are mines AT THE OPPONENT'S base, the drop won't work because the Medivac will get blown up.
That's what the the money scan / macro OC is for.
I scan and see mines. So what? Still doesn't change the fact that mines shut down drops.
Would need a banshee then. :-/ Good for pointing that out.
I'm guessing then, that rax > expand > banshee harass into drops would then become the norm for TvT bio. Yes, it'll delay.
Dude... wtf? Watch a Hots stream before sprouting crap. Bio in TvT is completely dead due to widow mines.... That is a fact not a theory.
No it doesn't. It makes Bio TvT completely obsolete.
No, it just means A-move across the map with your MMM is obsolete. It takes between 3-5 scans to move across most maps. Then secure your attack paths with widow mines of your own.
There, not obsolete again.
I don't know what kind of maps you play to have 3-5 scans cover base distances. Ravens are very expensive and come out relatively late. Mines shuts down drops too which is a big part of playing bio. Simply put, Widow Mines take away mobility which is the sole advantage of MMM.
Also if you need Widow Mines to secure attack paths then there is no point in going bio because you are splitting resources into 2 tech paths. You will be better off just going straight mech.
It's called a macro OC. Widow mines have changed the dynamics of Terran. Deal with it. Marauders are range 6.
Now you're just exaggerating. Placing two widow mines near or around the place you wish to drop is total of 300 min, 100 gas, less than two siege tanks.
So I have to blow all my energy on scans just so my army doesn't get blown up by something that cost 75 minerals and 25 gas while the opponent can mule all day. Yep, it does change the dynamics.
Marauders are range 6 so what? They still can't do anything if there's no detection which still comes back to blowing scans just to avoid mines. Keep in mind they aren't Banelings either. Banelings die when they explode while mines don't.
What do you mean placing mines at the place I'm going to drop? You aren't making any sense. The mines have to get there somehow and I doubt any good player will allow 2 enemy mines in his or her base.
No...
You scan the terrain your medivacs will fly past enroute to the LZ (landing zone), then place widow mines two at a time along the route.
This is actually a good thing as it'll catch mid-game vikings trying to stop an incoming drop.
I see what you are misunderstanding now. It doesn't matter if the path to the opponent's base is clear. As long as there are mines AT THE OPPONENT'S base, the drop won't work because the Medivac will get blown up.
That's what the the money scan / macro OC is for.
I scan and see mines. So what? Still doesn't change the fact that mines shut down drops.
Would need a banshee then. :-/ Good for pointing that out.
I'm guessing then, that rax > expand > banshee harass into drops would then become the norm for TvT bio. Yes, it'll delay.
On October 14 2012 13:17 dragonblade369 wrote: [quote]
Widow mines are amazing. It creates a lot of positional play and makes TvX an interesting dynamism
No it doesn't. It makes Bio TvT completely obsolete.
No, it just means A-move across the map with your MMM is obsolete. It takes between 3-5 scans to move across most maps. Then secure your attack paths with widow mines of your own.
There, not obsolete again.
I don't know what kind of maps you play to have 3-5 scans cover base distances. Ravens are very expensive and come out relatively late. Mines shuts down drops too which is a big part of playing bio. Simply put, Widow Mines take away mobility which is the sole advantage of MMM.
Also if you need Widow Mines to secure attack paths then there is no point in going bio because you are splitting resources into 2 tech paths. You will be better off just going straight mech.
It's called a macro OC. Widow mines have changed the dynamics of Terran. Deal with it. Marauders are range 6.
Now you're just exaggerating. Placing two widow mines near or around the place you wish to drop is total of 300 min, 100 gas, less than two siege tanks.
So I have to blow all my energy on scans just so my army doesn't get blown up by something that cost 75 minerals and 25 gas while the opponent can mule all day. Yep, it does change the dynamics.
Marauders are range 6 so what? They still can't do anything if there's no detection which still comes back to blowing scans just to avoid mines. Keep in mind they aren't Banelings either. Banelings die when they explode while mines don't.
What do you mean placing mines at the place I'm going to drop? You aren't making any sense. The mines have to get there somehow and I doubt any good player will allow 2 enemy mines in his or her base.
No...
You scan the terrain your medivacs will fly past enroute to the LZ (landing zone), then place widow mines two at a time along the route.
This is actually a good thing as it'll catch mid-game vikings trying to stop an incoming drop.
I see what you are misunderstanding now. It doesn't matter if the path to the opponent's base is clear. As long as there are mines AT THE OPPONENT'S base, the drop won't work because the Medivac will get blown up.
That's what the the money scan / macro OC is for.
I scan and see mines. So what? Still doesn't change the fact that mines shut down drops.
On October 14 2012 15:01 Hattori_Hanzo wrote: [quote]
No, it just means A-move across the map with your MMM is obsolete. It takes between 3-5 scans to move across most maps. Then secure your attack paths with widow mines of your own.
There, not obsolete again.
I don't know what kind of maps you play to have 3-5 scans cover base distances. Ravens are very expensive and come out relatively late. Mines shuts down drops too which is a big part of playing bio. Simply put, Widow Mines take away mobility which is the sole advantage of MMM.
Also if you need Widow Mines to secure attack paths then there is no point in going bio because you are splitting resources into 2 tech paths. You will be better off just going straight mech.
It's called a macro OC. Widow mines have changed the dynamics of Terran. Deal with it. Marauders are range 6.
Now you're just exaggerating. Placing two widow mines near or around the place you wish to drop is total of 300 min, 100 gas, less than two siege tanks.
So I have to blow all my energy on scans just so my army doesn't get blown up by something that cost 75 minerals and 25 gas while the opponent can mule all day. Yep, it does change the dynamics.
Marauders are range 6 so what? They still can't do anything if there's no detection which still comes back to blowing scans just to avoid mines. Keep in mind they aren't Banelings either. Banelings die when they explode while mines don't.
What do you mean placing mines at the place I'm going to drop? You aren't making any sense. The mines have to get there somehow and I doubt any good player will allow 2 enemy mines in his or her base.
No...
You scan the terrain your medivacs will fly past enroute to the LZ (landing zone), then place widow mines two at a time along the route.
This is actually a good thing as it'll catch mid-game vikings trying to stop an incoming drop.
I see what you are misunderstanding now. It doesn't matter if the path to the opponent's base is clear. As long as there are mines AT THE OPPONENT'S base, the drop won't work because the Medivac will get blown up.
That's what the the money scan / macro OC is for.
I scan and see mines. So what? Still doesn't change the fact that mines shut down drops.
Would need a banshee then. :-/ Good for pointing that out.
I'm guessing then, that rax > expand > banshee harass into drops would then become the norm for TvT bio. Yes, it'll delay.
Dude... wtf? Watch a Hots stream before sprouting crap. Bio in TvT is completely dead due to widow mines.... That is a fact not a theory.
I don't see many Terrans on Morrow's stream, mostly TvZ or TvP. When he does go TvT bio, he's usually got most of his macro OCs up already!
@to much detection: note that toss also is the only race that doesnt have detection along their "main" techtree. i also fail to see how "many detection abilities in different tech paths" should ever be a bad thing, as long as you dont want to force them to go one path only in the early mid-game.
@entomb: on paper lingfestor or just some additional lings in the early should suffice. in theory hydras are good against entomb too, but meh, they are hydras.
No it doesn't. It makes Bio TvT completely obsolete.
No, it just means A-move across the map with your MMM is obsolete. It takes between 3-5 scans to move across most maps. Then secure your attack paths with widow mines of your own.
There, not obsolete again.
I don't know what kind of maps you play to have 3-5 scans cover base distances. Ravens are very expensive and come out relatively late. Mines shuts down drops too which is a big part of playing bio. Simply put, Widow Mines take away mobility which is the sole advantage of MMM.
Also if you need Widow Mines to secure attack paths then there is no point in going bio because you are splitting resources into 2 tech paths. You will be better off just going straight mech.
It's called a macro OC. Widow mines have changed the dynamics of Terran. Deal with it. Marauders are range 6.
Now you're just exaggerating. Placing two widow mines near or around the place you wish to drop is total of 300 min, 100 gas, less than two siege tanks.
So I have to blow all my energy on scans just so my army doesn't get blown up by something that cost 75 minerals and 25 gas while the opponent can mule all day. Yep, it does change the dynamics.
Marauders are range 6 so what? They still can't do anything if there's no detection which still comes back to blowing scans just to avoid mines. Keep in mind they aren't Banelings either. Banelings die when they explode while mines don't.
What do you mean placing mines at the place I'm going to drop? You aren't making any sense. The mines have to get there somehow and I doubt any good player will allow 2 enemy mines in his or her base.
No...
You scan the terrain your medivacs will fly past enroute to the LZ (landing zone), then place widow mines two at a time along the route.
This is actually a good thing as it'll catch mid-game vikings trying to stop an incoming drop.
I see what you are misunderstanding now. It doesn't matter if the path to the opponent's base is clear. As long as there are mines AT THE OPPONENT'S base, the drop won't work because the Medivac will get blown up.
That's what the the money scan / macro OC is for.
I scan and see mines. So what? Still doesn't change the fact that mines shut down drops.
Scan then drop a Mule or 2 to detonate the mines?
Mules aren't Banelings. And it's 100 energy on Orbital.
On October 14 2012 15:01 Hattori_Hanzo wrote: [quote]
No, it just means A-move across the map with your MMM is obsolete. It takes between 3-5 scans to move across most maps. Then secure your attack paths with widow mines of your own.
There, not obsolete again.
I don't know what kind of maps you play to have 3-5 scans cover base distances. Ravens are very expensive and come out relatively late. Mines shuts down drops too which is a big part of playing bio. Simply put, Widow Mines take away mobility which is the sole advantage of MMM.
Also if you need Widow Mines to secure attack paths then there is no point in going bio because you are splitting resources into 2 tech paths. You will be better off just going straight mech.
It's called a macro OC. Widow mines have changed the dynamics of Terran. Deal with it. Marauders are range 6.
Now you're just exaggerating. Placing two widow mines near or around the place you wish to drop is total of 300 min, 100 gas, less than two siege tanks.
So I have to blow all my energy on scans just so my army doesn't get blown up by something that cost 75 minerals and 25 gas while the opponent can mule all day. Yep, it does change the dynamics.
Marauders are range 6 so what? They still can't do anything if there's no detection which still comes back to blowing scans just to avoid mines. Keep in mind they aren't Banelings either. Banelings die when they explode while mines don't.
What do you mean placing mines at the place I'm going to drop? You aren't making any sense. The mines have to get there somehow and I doubt any good player will allow 2 enemy mines in his or her base.
No...
You scan the terrain your medivacs will fly past enroute to the LZ (landing zone), then place widow mines two at a time along the route.
This is actually a good thing as it'll catch mid-game vikings trying to stop an incoming drop.
I see what you are misunderstanding now. It doesn't matter if the path to the opponent's base is clear. As long as there are mines AT THE OPPONENT'S base, the drop won't work because the Medivac will get blown up.
That's what the the money scan / macro OC is for.
I scan and see mines. So what? Still doesn't change the fact that mines shut down drops.
Scan then drop a Mule or 2 to detonate the mines?
Mules aren't Banelings. And it's 100 energy on Orbital.
I think that's his point, I've seen zerglings kill widow mines (during cool down), with no problem. Therefore after the MULE is destroyed, you can safely drop ON TOP OF the widow mine.
On October 14 2012 16:09 GARcher wrote: [quote] I don't know what kind of maps you play to have 3-5 scans cover base distances. Ravens are very expensive and come out relatively late. Mines shuts down drops too which is a big part of playing bio. Simply put, Widow Mines take away mobility which is the sole advantage of MMM.
Also if you need Widow Mines to secure attack paths then there is no point in going bio because you are splitting resources into 2 tech paths. You will be better off just going straight mech.
It's called a macro OC. Widow mines have changed the dynamics of Terran. Deal with it. Marauders are range 6.
Now you're just exaggerating. Placing two widow mines near or around the place you wish to drop is total of 300 min, 100 gas, less than two siege tanks.
So I have to blow all my energy on scans just so my army doesn't get blown up by something that cost 75 minerals and 25 gas while the opponent can mule all day. Yep, it does change the dynamics.
Marauders are range 6 so what? They still can't do anything if there's no detection which still comes back to blowing scans just to avoid mines. Keep in mind they aren't Banelings either. Banelings die when they explode while mines don't.
What do you mean placing mines at the place I'm going to drop? You aren't making any sense. The mines have to get there somehow and I doubt any good player will allow 2 enemy mines in his or her base.
No...
You scan the terrain your medivacs will fly past enroute to the LZ (landing zone), then place widow mines two at a time along the route.
This is actually a good thing as it'll catch mid-game vikings trying to stop an incoming drop.
I see what you are misunderstanding now. It doesn't matter if the path to the opponent's base is clear. As long as there are mines AT THE OPPONENT'S base, the drop won't work because the Medivac will get blown up.
That's what the the money scan / macro OC is for.
I scan and see mines. So what? Still doesn't change the fact that mines shut down drops.
Scan then drop a Mule or 2 to detonate the mines?
Mules aren't Banelings. And it's 100 energy on Orbital.
I think that's his point, I've seen zerglings kill widow mines (during cool down), with no problem. Therefore after the MULE is destroyed, you can safely drop ON TOP OF the widow mine.
At which point you HAVE to commit and do damage or else you will be behind. All of that forced by 75 minerals and 25 gas.
Keep in mind that a MULE only trigger 1 mine due to smart AI.
On October 14 2012 15:01 Hattori_Hanzo wrote: [quote]
No, it just means A-move across the map with your MMM is obsolete. It takes between 3-5 scans to move across most maps. Then secure your attack paths with widow mines of your own.
There, not obsolete again.
I don't know what kind of maps you play to have 3-5 scans cover base distances. Ravens are very expensive and come out relatively late. Mines shuts down drops too which is a big part of playing bio. Simply put, Widow Mines take away mobility which is the sole advantage of MMM.
Also if you need Widow Mines to secure attack paths then there is no point in going bio because you are splitting resources into 2 tech paths. You will be better off just going straight mech.
It's called a macro OC. Widow mines have changed the dynamics of Terran. Deal with it. Marauders are range 6.
Now you're just exaggerating. Placing two widow mines near or around the place you wish to drop is total of 300 min, 100 gas, less than two siege tanks.
So I have to blow all my energy on scans just so my army doesn't get blown up by something that cost 75 minerals and 25 gas while the opponent can mule all day. Yep, it does change the dynamics.
Marauders are range 6 so what? They still can't do anything if there's no detection which still comes back to blowing scans just to avoid mines. Keep in mind they aren't Banelings either. Banelings die when they explode while mines don't.
What do you mean placing mines at the place I'm going to drop? You aren't making any sense. The mines have to get there somehow and I doubt any good player will allow 2 enemy mines in his or her base.
No...
You scan the terrain your medivacs will fly past enroute to the LZ (landing zone), then place widow mines two at a time along the route.
This is actually a good thing as it'll catch mid-game vikings trying to stop an incoming drop.
I see what you are misunderstanding now. It doesn't matter if the path to the opponent's base is clear. As long as there are mines AT THE OPPONENT'S base, the drop won't work because the Medivac will get blown up.
That's what the the money scan / macro OC is for.
I scan and see mines. So what? Still doesn't change the fact that mines shut down drops.
Would need a banshee then. :-/ Good for pointing that out.
I'm guessing then, that rax > expand > banshee harass into drops would then become the norm for TvT bio. Yes, it'll delay.
Dude... wtf? Watch a Hots stream before sprouting crap. Bio in TvT is completely dead due to widow mines.... That is a fact not a theory.
I'm glad bio is harder in TvT in HoTS. Mech is so much more exciting and it was so annoying to play against Bio. If you didn't play perfectly you lost, where as the bio player had no issues at all.
On October 14 2012 16:59 Hattori_Hanzo wrote: [quote]
It's called a macro OC. Widow mines have changed the dynamics of Terran. Deal with it. Marauders are range 6.
Now you're just exaggerating. Placing two widow mines near or around the place you wish to drop is total of 300 min, 100 gas, less than two siege tanks.
So I have to blow all my energy on scans just so my army doesn't get blown up by something that cost 75 minerals and 25 gas while the opponent can mule all day. Yep, it does change the dynamics.
Marauders are range 6 so what? They still can't do anything if there's no detection which still comes back to blowing scans just to avoid mines. Keep in mind they aren't Banelings either. Banelings die when they explode while mines don't.
What do you mean placing mines at the place I'm going to drop? You aren't making any sense. The mines have to get there somehow and I doubt any good player will allow 2 enemy mines in his or her base.
No...
You scan the terrain your medivacs will fly past enroute to the LZ (landing zone), then place widow mines two at a time along the route.
This is actually a good thing as it'll catch mid-game vikings trying to stop an incoming drop.
I see what you are misunderstanding now. It doesn't matter if the path to the opponent's base is clear. As long as there are mines AT THE OPPONENT'S base, the drop won't work because the Medivac will get blown up.
That's what the the money scan / macro OC is for.
I scan and see mines. So what? Still doesn't change the fact that mines shut down drops.
Scan then drop a Mule or 2 to detonate the mines?
Mules aren't Banelings. And it's 100 energy on Orbital.
I think that's his point, I've seen zerglings kill widow mines (during cool down), with no problem. Therefore after the MULE is destroyed, you can safely drop ON TOP OF the widow mine.
At which point you HAVE to commit and do damage or else you will be behind. All of that forced by 75 minerals and 25 gas.
Keep in mind that a MULE only trigger 1 mine due to smart AI.
Terrans exploit macro orbitals starting very early in the game now. I don't think it is a problem to be forced to use additional scans and mule drops in order to break into minefields.
If you are sure there will be a mine you don't even need to scan. The medivac provides vision at a range of 11, so you can freely drop mules even if you cant detect them. And if you don't land the mule right on the mine you can path him around the area to make sure its clear or get blown up anyway.
Seriously what are they doing? The Oracle at this point is just dumb. They made Entomb super-strong just so that people will build it? Guess what, it's the most boring harassment unit ever since it just takes two clicks to deny mining for a full minute T_T.
And hallucinations free without a upgrade is just a strange change, lowering the cost/build time would have been more then enough.
And why all these detection changes, because of one unit that you made a tad to strong, maybe nerfing that unit would have been better.
I guess i will have to see how it plays out but.....
On October 14 2012 18:42 DeCoup wrote: If you are sure there will be a mine you don't even need to scan. The medivac provides vision at a range of 11, so you can freely drop mules even if you cant detect them. And if you don't land the mule right on the mine you can path him around the area to make sure its clear or get blown up anyway.
So I have to blow all my energy on scans just so my army doesn't get blown up by something that cost 75 minerals and 25 gas while the opponent can mule all day. Yep, it does change the dynamics.
Marauders are range 6 so what? They still can't do anything if there's no detection which still comes back to blowing scans just to avoid mines. Keep in mind they aren't Banelings either. Banelings die when they explode while mines don't.
What do you mean placing mines at the place I'm going to drop? You aren't making any sense. The mines have to get there somehow and I doubt any good player will allow 2 enemy mines in his or her base.
No...
You scan the terrain your medivacs will fly past enroute to the LZ (landing zone), then place widow mines two at a time along the route.
This is actually a good thing as it'll catch mid-game vikings trying to stop an incoming drop.
I see what you are misunderstanding now. It doesn't matter if the path to the opponent's base is clear. As long as there are mines AT THE OPPONENT'S base, the drop won't work because the Medivac will get blown up.
That's what the the money scan / macro OC is for.
I scan and see mines. So what? Still doesn't change the fact that mines shut down drops.
Scan then drop a Mule or 2 to detonate the mines?
Mules aren't Banelings. And it's 100 energy on Orbital.
I think that's his point, I've seen zerglings kill widow mines (during cool down), with no problem. Therefore after the MULE is destroyed, you can safely drop ON TOP OF the widow mine.
At which point you HAVE to commit and do damage or else you will be behind. All of that forced by 75 minerals and 25 gas.
Keep in mind that a MULE only trigger 1 mine due to smart AI.
Terrans exploit macro orbitals starting very early in the game now. I don't think it is a problem to be forced to use additional scans and mule drops in order to break into minefields.
Bio is VERY mineral heavy. Every scan you use up is a MULE you aren't getting and every Orbital you put up that's not at a non saturated expansion is 11 marines you aren't getting.
The medivac thing is excluding the chance that it will get blown up halfway across the map by hidden mines.
EPT
