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[D][G] Vipers - flying and unnerving casters - Page 3

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 HotS
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Tuczniak
Profile Joined September 2010
1561 Posts
September 17 2012 15:38 GMT
#41
I don't know why is there such big talk about what building are good and bad for consume. Vipers are units that are good even if you don't have 10+ of them. You won't need that many consumes...
Just do one or two from every building except greater spire and defence structures. They will have their HP back eventually. And if need for more buildings come up, just make few macro hatches. More larva and place to spend inject is always good.
Existor
Profile Joined July 2010
Russian Federation4295 Posts
September 17 2012 16:01 GMT
#42
just make few macro hatches

Sometimes it can be not that effective, like extractors, or when you need faster consume but you don't have building nearby - extractor wins again
Iranon
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States983 Posts
September 17 2012 16:19 GMT
#43
Quick question -- can you use consume on a building that's still morphing? (and then cancel it...)
Existor
Profile Joined July 2010
Russian Federation4295 Posts
September 17 2012 16:33 GMT
#44
Quick question -- can you use consume on a building that's still morphing? (and then cancel it...)

Have you read article?
Note. You can't consume buildings, that are in building process.
Seigifried
Profile Joined January 2012
United States60 Posts
September 22 2012 23:55 GMT
#45
Warhound OP!!!!!
JmpEax
Profile Joined October 2010
Australia6 Posts
September 26 2012 01:06 GMT
#46
I find it interesting how zerg can convert minerals into energy with consume, and terran can convert energy into minerals with mules.
The question of whether machines can think is about as relevant as the question of whether submarines can swim - E.W.Dijkstra
LOLItsRyann
Profile Joined April 2011
England551 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-26 01:09:58
September 26 2012 01:09 GMT
#47
On September 26 2012 10:06 JmpEax wrote:
I find it interesting how zerg can convert minerals into energy with consume, and terran can convert energy into minerals with mules.


And Protoss can convert energy into more energy with Mothership Core.
EG<3
Existor
Profile Joined July 2010
Russian Federation4295 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-11-29 20:29:36
November 29 2012 20:19 GMT
#48
Added one tip about consume ability

Try to consume as many buildings at time, as you can. Like one building per Viper. Because average health regeneration will be higher, than regeneration of one building.

Under term "Average regeneration" I mean summarized regeneration of 2+ buildings. Two and more Zerg buildings will regenerate slowly more HP, than one at same time. If you consume one building with many Vipers, that building will regenerate always at same speed which is slow. Try to consume more buildings at same time and you will have more regenerating buildings, more than one.

[image loading]


In other word, try to consume as many buildings, as many Vipers you have. Also try to consume buildings that are maxed at health, so later they will regenerate too!
HelloSon
Profile Joined April 2010
United States456 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-11-29 21:33:00
November 29 2012 21:31 GMT
#49
Nice graphics, how long do you spend on those?

Also, I think if I go the evo chamber route for vipers, I'm going to start spamming them around my production buildings like Greater Spire, Infestor pit, etc.
yo
wassup
Profile Joined November 2011
17 Posts
November 29 2012 21:44 GMT
#50
On September 26 2012 10:09 LOLItsRyann wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 26 2012 10:06 JmpEax wrote:
I find it interesting how zerg can convert minerals into energy with consume, and terran can convert energy into minerals with mules.


And Protoss can convert energy into more energy with Mothership Core.



Still, toss op
ZjiublingZ
Profile Joined September 2011
United Arab Emirates439 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-11-29 21:58:06
November 29 2012 21:57 GMT
#51
On September 16 2012 01:41 Existor wrote:
Show nested quote +
sorry, but vikings and ghosts wont prevent cloud. they kill 1-2 viper and after that remaining vipers will cloud all terran army (they're flying, so they wont be blocked) and ofc after that vipers will be killed and etc - but tanks will be under cloud and ur army will be lost

Spread tanks and only 1-2 tanks will be under clouds


Even in the best possible scenario, where the Terran has every single Tank spread out 1.5 range away from every other one (which is so far apart in some terrain that some of the tanks won't even be in range of the fight, mind you), a single 3 supply/200 gas Viper can still negate 2x 3 supply/125 gas Tanks. That's really cost effective for the Zerg. It's hard for Mech when it isn't cost-effective. And a full Energy Viper isn't a huge deal like it would be for other casters.

Not to mention spreading 12+ Tanks while trying to be offensive at all with them just isn't possible. It isn't a matter of good micro, it's a matter of the time it takes for Tanks to move 1.5 hexes AND Siege before an army has already closed the distance.

If Blinding Cloud is OP, and I'm definitely not saying it is, I think the best solution would be to make it a range deduction spell. That way it's just as effective against all other units, but the longest range units like Tanks aren't completely negated. If the spell made all tanks 6 range, that could be a lot more reasonable.
Existor
Profile Joined July 2010
Russian Federation4295 Posts
November 29 2012 22:01 GMT
#52
Even in the best possible scenario, where the Terran has every single Tank spread out 1.5 range away from every other one (which is so far apart in some terrain that some of the tanks won't even be in range of the fight, mind you), a single 3 supply/200 gas Viper can still negate 2x 3 supply/125 gas Tanks. That's really cost effective for the Zerg. It's hard for Mech when it isn't cost-effective. And a full Energy Viper isn't a huge deal like it would be for other casters.

Blinding cloud now is 2.5 range
LOLItsRyann
Profile Joined April 2011
England551 Posts
November 29 2012 22:21 GMT
#53
I think Vipers are overpowered personally. The ONLY thing making them even remotely balanced is the HP. Vikings and such DESTROY them, as do thors etc. And they're very fast so they clump easily if you're not careful. Plus 200 gas is quite a lot. They're basically Ravens cost wise.
EG<3
ZjiublingZ
Profile Joined September 2011
United Arab Emirates439 Posts
November 29 2012 22:40 GMT
#54
On November 30 2012 07:01 Existor wrote:
Show nested quote +
Even in the best possible scenario, where the Terran has every single Tank spread out 1.5 range away from every other one (which is so far apart in some terrain that some of the tanks won't even be in range of the fight, mind you), a single 3 supply/200 gas Viper can still negate 2x 3 supply/125 gas Tanks. That's really cost effective for the Zerg. It's hard for Mech when it isn't cost-effective. And a full Energy Viper isn't a huge deal like it would be for other casters.

Blinding cloud now is 2.5 range


lol even worse.
lhr0909
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United States562 Posts
November 30 2012 04:24 GMT
#55
On November 30 2012 07:40 ZjiublingZ wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 30 2012 07:01 Existor wrote:
Even in the best possible scenario, where the Terran has every single Tank spread out 1.5 range away from every other one (which is so far apart in some terrain that some of the tanks won't even be in range of the fight, mind you), a single 3 supply/200 gas Viper can still negate 2x 3 supply/125 gas Tanks. That's really cost effective for the Zerg. It's hard for Mech when it isn't cost-effective. And a full Energy Viper isn't a huge deal like it would be for other casters.

Blinding cloud now is 2.5 range


lol even worse.


Not 2.5 range, but 2.5 radius, range i am pretty sure it is 9
No Pain No Gain
BigRedDog
Profile Joined May 2012
461 Posts
November 30 2012 07:39 GMT
#56
Thanks for writing this up. I found it very useful
Big Red Dog!
Existor
Profile Joined July 2010
Russian Federation4295 Posts
December 02 2012 13:24 GMT
#57
Added one fact about Abduct

If you Abduct burrowed units, they become unburrowed. Probably this is a reason, why Vipers officially considered good versus Swarm Hosts
Markwerf
Profile Joined March 2010
Netherlands3728 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-12-02 13:47:15
December 02 2012 13:45 GMT
#58
coolest unit in hots and possible in the game.
Great design for a spellcaster and finally a spellcaster that you don't want to mass if you go for it.

It does seem to die to vikings a bit too easily, vikings can float a bit in front of the tanks while still being safe from fungal etc. and often kill a viper before they get to do anything.

I think it would make more sense to make it just psionic and not have be light or armored. Being armored it dies too quickly to vikings and stalkers i think
Existor
Profile Joined July 2010
Russian Federation4295 Posts
December 02 2012 13:49 GMT
#59
I think it would make more sense to make it just psionic and not have be light or armored. Being armored it dies too quickly to vikings and stalkers i think

It can be op then. Right now protoss stalkers and terran vikings can counter it, when it can do a lot damage, like shut down your siege tanks or grab some colossies.
Callynn
Profile Joined December 2010
Netherlands917 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-12-02 14:08:09
December 02 2012 14:06 GMT
#60
Very impressive post, thanks for the great read :D

Can't wait to play this unit.
Comparing BW with SCII is like comparing a beautiful three-master sailing ship with a modern battlecruiser. Both are beautiful in their own way, both perform the same task, but they are worlds apart in how they are built and how they are steered.
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