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[D][G] Vipers - flying and unnerving casters

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 HotS
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Existor
Profile Joined July 2010
Russian Federation4282 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-12-02 13:30:52
September 15 2012 12:08 GMT
#1
[image loading]

It's a guide+discussion thread. Everyone can argue here, post facts and discuss with others about Vipers. I've just gave a discussion theme with some initial known facts and ideas about Vipers



Vipers - new Zerg casters, that are available from Larva on Hive, gives some new strategies and adds some dynamic into old Zerg gameplay. I want to write a small guide with listing some knowing for me facts and some ideas, how to use abilities and when it's more or less effective.

[image loading]

Official page on Liquipedia
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Viper




[image loading]

Probably nothing special or unique. Viper just consumes 200 HP from any building and getting 50 energy during 20 seconds. So it's a 2.5 energy/10 HP per second. Cause Viper's mineral cost is low (only 100 minerals), it's not really true. They're taking HP from buildings that cost minerals too, and why it's better to consume Extractor or Evolution Chamber, but never consume Spine/Spore Crawler, I'll write below. But first some stats about Zerg buildings, that costs only minerals.

Note. You can't consume buildings, that are in building process.
Bronze note. You can't consume enemy Zerg buildings.

Extractor
* can be built anywhere on any Vespene geyser
* Fastest building time - 30 seconds
* HP count - 500 (enought for 2,5 consumes)
* Full cost - 75 minerals (25 + Drone)
* If too far from base, you can't heal with queens. Or send queen too, but it's not effective

Evolution Chamber
* can be built anywhere on creep
* building time - 35seconds
* HP count - 750 (enought for 3,75 consumes)
* Full cost - 125 minerals (75 + Drone)
* Can be healed with queens, because mostly on home base nearby queens

Hatchery
* can be built anywhere
* building time - 100 seconds
* HP count - 1500 (enought for 7,5 consumes)
* Full cost - 350 minerals (300 + Drone)

Spore Crawler
* can be built only on creep
* building time - 30
* HP count - 400
* Full cost - 125 (75 + drone)
* can be Consumed while uprooted

Spine Crawler
* can be built only on creep
* building time - 50
* HP count - 300
* Full cost - 150 (100 + drone)
* can be Consumed while uprooted

What to consume first?


The most efficient building in terms of cost and HP is Extractor. For 225 minerals (75*3) you can get 1500 HP, like from Hatchery. But it requires 3 drones instead one, but at same time it can be built everywhere on Geysers and very quickly - just 30 seconds.

Second candidate to Consume is Evolution Chamber - it can be consumed, it has a lot of HP - 750, and cheap too. For 250 minerals (125 * 2), including 2 drones lost, you can get exactly same amount of HP (1500), like hatchery.

The worst candidate to Consume is Spine Crawler. It's very expensive and has low amount of HP per cost. Well, I've placed above all mineral buildings in order, what to Consume first. Extractors are the best, and Spine Crawlers are the worst.



Try to consume as many buildings at time, as you can. Like one building per Viper. Because average health regeneration will be higher, than regeneration of one building.

Under term "Average regeneration" I mean summarized regeneration of 2+ buildings. Two and more Zerg buildings will regenerate slowly more HP, than one at same time. If you consume one building with many Vipers, that building will regenerate always at same speed which is slow. Try to consume more buildings at same time and you will have more regenerating buildings, more than one.

[image loading]


In other word, try to consume as many buildings, as many Vipers you have. Also try to consume buildings that are maxed at health, so later they will regenerate too!



[image loading]
  • Cost - 100 energy
  • Turns all ranged units into Melee in 2.5 radius (same as Fungal Growth)
  • Works vs defensive structures too, like Planetary Fortress, Spine/Spore Crawlers, Rocket Launchers and Photon cannons. Instead Melee it decreases radius of defensive buildings to 1, so those buildings still can atack units, that are very close, like Zerglings around PF.
  • Does not blinds Bunker
  • Blinding cloud does not prevents from using spells and abilities
  • Blinding cloud not works vs air
  • Blinding cloud also lowers radius of Ultralisk atack from 1 to Melee. It can be used to make them glitching more when they're trying to reach their target
  • Blinding cloud totally shutdowns Siege Tanks
  • For now, blinding cloud still works under Phase Field (Oracle's ability)
  • Blinding Cloud is also effective with a big number of Zerglings. They can block enemy movement and don't allow to enemy to leave Blinding Cloud. This combo with lings+cloud is also good on ramp, and adding Ultralisk burrow charge can make this scenario more deadly to enemy, because ultralisk can easily burrow charge into enemy masses on the ramp and deal a lot damage, because half of enemy units are blinded and can't atack ultralisk. Demonstration of ling+cloud+ultralisk combo you can see on 2nd video below





[image loading]

Blinding cloud significantly increases effectiveness of Swarm Hosts against tanks. Probably, scenario unfolds at 180 degrees. Without blinding cloud, Siege Tanks fully counter Swarm Host locust waves without any damage. But with Blinding Cloud locusts can reach Siege lines and destroy them with some waves. Well, Abduct is less effective in this scenario, but it's good too. Lets look at Abduct ability.



[image loading]
  • Cost - 75 energy
  • You can not Abduct Larva. Also you can't abduct units if you have unpassable terrain under viper.
  • Abduct can be used on your units, that opens some gameplay features like saving some units or transporting them over cliff.
  • Ultralisks can be Abducted too. So if someone thinks that Frenzy effect prevents from Abducting - they're wrong
  • Mothership and M-Core can be abducted too
  • If you Abduct burrowed units, they become unburrowed. Probably this is a reason, why Vipers officially considered good versus Swarm Hosts
  • When using Shift for multiple commands, like Abduct and then move back, here are an interesting moment. Viper starts move back during Abduct process, but Abducted unit will be pulled to a location, where Viper started to Abduct. In result, if use Shift-Abduct-move command, Viper will move away from Abducted target for a ~3-4 cells.
  • You can not abduct uprooted Spine/Spore crawlers


Targets for Abduct




  • Abduct Ultralisk over cliff. You can "transport" your units via Abduct and pull them to higher ground. It's a new Zerg answer to cliff-jumping Reapers and Colossies
  • Abduct enemy units to your baneling field.
  • Abduct enemy units closer to your Locusts to save time and allow for Locusts to kill more
  • Abduct your Drone and some units to island, like on Metropolis.
  • Abduct enemy Immortals and Sentries to kill them faster and/or eliminate mass force fields
  • Abduct enemy drop that is flying away
  • Abduct enemy drop away from your base to get some time untill your forces come to defend base against drop
  • Abduct enemy Vikings to kill them quickly
  • Abduct enemy Oracle that quickly flying away
  • Abduct your Queen to high/low ground to place creep tumor under Overlord. Not need for Ovie-transport upgrade!
  • Abduct your Drone to high/low ground to start build proxy-Spines or Hatchery. Nit much viable at Hive-tech
  • Abduct away enemy SCV that is building something
  • Abduct your overlord to save it from ground aa units
  • Crazy idea. Abduct your overlord with transport upgrade but without speed upgrade.
Solarist
Profile Joined September 2011
291 Posts
September 15 2012 12:29 GMT
#2
Blinding cloud looks so retardedly OP vs terran. Just fly in put it on siege tanks and continue to amove to victory. They should really go back to having it only affect bio units or something. because with that ability mech is even worse than it allready is. Imagine mech without siege tanks lol
Existor
Profile Joined July 2010
Russian Federation4282 Posts
September 15 2012 12:30 GMT
#3
On September 15 2012 21:29 Solarist wrote:
Blinding cloud looks so retardedly OP vs terran. Just fly in put it on siege tanks and continue to amove to victory. They should really go back to having it only affect bio units or something. because with that ability mech is even worse than it allready is. Imagine mech without siege tanks lol

Use vikings and ghosts to shutdown Vipers.
Qikz
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
United Kingdom11783 Posts
September 15 2012 12:31 GMT
#4
On September 15 2012 21:30 Existor wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 15 2012 21:29 Solarist wrote:
Blinding cloud looks so retardedly OP vs terran. Just fly in put it on siege tanks and continue to amove to victory. They should really go back to having it only affect bio units or something. because with that ability mech is even worse than it allready is. Imagine mech without siege tanks lol

Use vikings and ghosts to shutdown Vipers.


Exactly.

Also if they made the tank more powerful we could spread them against zerg again meaning binding cloud doesn't cover everything in one go.
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Existor
Profile Joined July 2010
Russian Federation4282 Posts
September 15 2012 12:33 GMT
#5
Also if they made the tank more powerful we could spread them against zerg again meaning binding cloud doesn't cover everything in one go.

True! One blinding cloud can cover 3-4 tanks. Spread them a bit and one cloud will cover only one tank. So there will be more vipers and consumes and less standart units. Because Viper supply requirement is 3, not 2.
Solarist
Profile Joined September 2011
291 Posts
September 15 2012 12:38 GMT
#6
Whats the range on blinding cloud? From the looks of the destiny videos you'd have to send your vikings into fungal range, and we all know what that means.
Existor
Profile Joined July 2010
Russian Federation4282 Posts
September 15 2012 12:40 GMT
#7
On September 15 2012 21:38 Solarist wrote:
Whats the range on blinding cloud? From the looks of the destiny videos you'd have to send your vikings into fungal range, and we all know what that means.

1.5, same as EMP and Storm
GeNeSiDe
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United Kingdom354 Posts
September 15 2012 12:49 GMT
#8
Seeing how you can kill people with destructible rocks,
You should be able to abduct into empty space and have units fall to their death.
http://soundcloud.com/eastmanmusic Check out my latest sc2 song "Masters League!"
Existor
Profile Joined July 2010
Russian Federation4282 Posts
September 15 2012 12:51 GMT
#9
You should be able to abduct into empty space and have units fall to their death.

Then it will be OP on some maps, because abduct will insta-kill enemy unit for just 75 energy
10734
Profile Joined September 2012
191 Posts
September 15 2012 13:36 GMT
#10
On September 15 2012 21:38 Solarist wrote:
Whats the range on blinding cloud? From the looks of the destiny videos you'd have to send your vikings into fungal range, and we all know what that means.


9 according to liquipedia.
Existor
Profile Joined July 2010
Russian Federation4282 Posts
September 15 2012 13:54 GMT
#11
On September 15 2012 22:36 10734 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 15 2012 21:38 Solarist wrote:
Whats the range on blinding cloud? From the looks of the destiny videos you'd have to send your vikings into fungal range, and we all know what that means.


9 according to liquipedia.

Ah, he meant range of ability. I thought it was range of cloud itself. Yes, it's 9, same as Fungal
Foxxan
Profile Joined October 2004
Sweden3427 Posts
September 15 2012 14:33 GMT
#12
The viper ability is really good for the game imo
It forces more micro, more focus from the players, it make it much more intersting overall. And not just for the players, but also for the crowd. It requires more skill overall from all players, evne the zerg to use it well and so on.

As u said, terran need to spread tanks. Just one example.
Iam a protoss user and i will be happy fighting against the viper. If i compare it to the fungal growth ability, damn, really really boring ability to fight against.

Just my two cents.

UntoTheBreach
Profile Joined September 2012
25 Posts
September 15 2012 14:50 GMT
#13
Blinding cloud + fungal seems ludicrously OP.

Nerf infestors so Zerg is forced to use both casters instead of randomly picking one of them and still winning.
Existor
Profile Joined July 2010
Russian Federation4282 Posts
September 15 2012 14:58 GMT
#14
On September 15 2012 23:50 UntoTheBreach wrote:
Blinding cloud + fungal seems ludicrously OP.

Nerf infestors so Zerg is forced to use both casters instead of randomly picking one of them and still winning.

Don't overnerf them
Fen1kz
Profile Joined July 2010
Russian Federation214 Posts
September 15 2012 16:34 GMT
#15
On September 15 2012 21:31 Qikz wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 15 2012 21:30 Existor wrote:
On September 15 2012 21:29 Solarist wrote:
Blinding cloud looks so retardedly OP vs terran. Just fly in put it on siege tanks and continue to amove to victory. They should really go back to having it only affect bio units or something. because with that ability mech is even worse than it allready is. Imagine mech without siege tanks lol

Use vikings and ghosts to shutdown Vipers.


Exactly.

Also if they made the tank more powerful we could spread them against zerg again meaning binding cloud doesn't cover everything in one go.


sorry, but vikings and ghosts wont prevent cloud. they kill 1-2 viper and after that remaining vipers will cloud all terran army (they're flying, so they wont be blocked) and ofc after that vipers will be killed and etc - but tanks will be under cloud and ur army will be lost
Existor
Profile Joined July 2010
Russian Federation4282 Posts
September 15 2012 16:41 GMT
#16
sorry, but vikings and ghosts wont prevent cloud. they kill 1-2 viper and after that remaining vipers will cloud all terran army (they're flying, so they wont be blocked) and ofc after that vipers will be killed and etc - but tanks will be under cloud and ur army will be lost

Spread tanks and only 1-2 tanks will be under clouds
Perscienter
Profile Joined June 2010
943 Posts
September 16 2012 00:19 GMT
#17
I don't think it fits the unwritten naming conventions. Vipers are a family of venomous snakes actually existing on Earth, not in another galaxy, or far away from our location.

How about Vilisk?
Existor
Profile Joined July 2010
Russian Federation4282 Posts
September 16 2012 10:21 GMT
#18
I don't think it fits the unwritten naming conventions. Vipers are a family of venomous snakes actually existing on Earth, not in another galaxy, or far away from our location.

How about Vilisk?

I don't like Vilisk or any lisk'ish names. Viper is ok for me

Vipers will be from Zerus, planet with jungles and nature, so it's a good name for them, in my opinion.
Ramiz1989
Profile Joined July 2012
7627 Posts
September 16 2012 10:23 GMT
#19
On September 16 2012 01:34 Fen1kz wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 15 2012 21:31 Qikz wrote:
On September 15 2012 21:30 Existor wrote:
On September 15 2012 21:29 Solarist wrote:
Blinding cloud looks so retardedly OP vs terran. Just fly in put it on siege tanks and continue to amove to victory. They should really go back to having it only affect bio units or something. because with that ability mech is even worse than it allready is. Imagine mech without siege tanks lol

Use vikings and ghosts to shutdown Vipers.


Exactly.

Also if they made the tank more powerful we could spread them against zerg again meaning binding cloud doesn't cover everything in one go.


sorry, but vikings and ghosts wont prevent cloud. they kill 1-2 viper and after that remaining vipers will cloud all terran army (they're flying, so they wont be blocked) and ofc after that vipers will be killed and etc - but tanks will be under cloud and ur army will be lost

What are you talking about? EMP them, first... You have the cloak, you can send few of Ghosts to the Zerg army and EMP every single caster you see in sight, and then you can attack, Vipers won't have enough time to refill energy.
"I've been to hell and back, and back to hell…and back. This time, I've brought Hell back with me."
Existor
Profile Joined July 2010
Russian Federation4282 Posts
September 16 2012 10:28 GMT
#20
Vipers won't have enough time to refill energy.

They have. Consume
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