EPTWhy the Warhound should NOT be balanced - Page 29
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bearhug
United States999 Posts
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Sapphire.lux
Romania2620 Posts
On September 14 2012 19:52 Plansix wrote: You are reading into to much. Flash is just being polite. Korean players do not directly call each other out, they trash talking is more passive aggressive. You're probably right. Just wanted to add some fuel to the fire that's all. | ||
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Sandermatt
Switzerland1365 Posts
On September 14 2012 14:11 GinDo wrote: 100% agree. Blizzard should concentrate on promoting Blizzard Dota to Casuals. RTS =/= Casual. They simply don't go together. And when you try you fail. For example: AOE Online, CC4, Halo Wars. Casuals want to play checkers, not chess. The Casuals are the large numbers. The casuals therefore are the ones that are interessting for sponsors. 98% of the players are not masters. WIthout having casuals play oyur game the scene does not have the money income to sustain a professional scene. | ||
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Sapp
Poland173 Posts
On September 10 2012 18:51 Morphs wrote: The Warhound is no coincidence. Blizzard wanted exactly this, as stated in interviews. According to Blizzard, the Warhound was purposely created as an a-move unit since there's already so much micro involved in playing Terran... And that's why warhound is such a biatch to ballance. The idea behind this unit is bad, not the creation, you can't ballance the idea. | ||
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Grendel
Belgium126 Posts
The two units being way too similar in role isn't working out for us. We're currently looking for ways for the Warhound to have a different role, and good suggestions in this area would definitely be welcome. The current Marauder vs. mech Marauder is not looking to be a very cool Starcraft choice. So, post away I guess. Edit, post can be found here: http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/6572967517 | ||
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Aenur
Germany66 Posts
http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/6572967517 EDIT: AHHHH, I was to late  But it was David Kim, not Browder  | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On September 15 2012 01:12 Aenur wrote: Looks like they will change it in the near future, and not only in numbers. People with good ideas, now is your time to post on Battlenet forums. http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/6572967517 EDIT: AHHHH, I was to late But it was David Kim, not Browder This is a good sign and what I expected out of Blizzard. I am glad they just threw the unit out there so they could know for sure that it wouldn't be good and where the problems are. Although the community was pretty much on point with this one, we have been wrong about other stuff. Also, people should Browder's posts in the Bnet forums. He is putting has been commenting on good suggestions about everything from Protoss play to how to make ladder runs more rewarding, even when you are on a fat losing streak. It is interesting stuff. | ||
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gedatsu
1286 Posts
On September 14 2012 19:07 Garmer wrote: it's easy to play not to win, it's not easy to win simply because it also easy to play, for all the other players, julyzerg talked about this when he switched and there is basically almost zero skill GAP, The game should be easy to play. Why the hell would you want to fight against the game rather than your opponent? If there is almost zero skill GAP then I refer to my original point: go win the GSL. The skill gap between you and the other players is almost zero, so I believe you can do it. | ||
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Grendel
Belgium126 Posts
On September 15 2012 01:12 Aenur wrote: Looks like they will change it in the near future, and not only in numbers. People with good ideas, now is your time to post on Battlenet forums. http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/6572967517 EDIT: AHHHH, I was to late But it was David Kim, not Browder Ah darn! Good catch  | ||
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ROOTFayth
Canada3351 Posts
On September 14 2012 14:34 Granter wrote: any toss nerdraging about warhound right now should take a good look on how retarded toss is on WOL. Basicly everything is hardcounter to bio, zealots with their retarded armor which makes them the best A move unit in the game, many pro terrans like thorzain almost lost to master toss doing zealot only build. storms, archons, sentry, colo, everything is their just to counter bio, terrran army will basicly die in 10seconds even with perfect spread. you couldn't be more wrong, TvP on WOL is fairly balanced TvP on HOTS is an absolute joke, I picked T for fun yesterday for like 20 games and I have yet to lose TvPs | ||
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Sapphire.lux
Romania2620 Posts
On September 15 2012 01:12 Grendel wrote: Quote from Dustin Browder: So, post away I guess. Edit, post can be found here: http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/6572967517 OMG OMG OMG he understands! That secret forum must really be working if they were able to show him the light. So excited! + Show Spoiler + whisper in the wind: give it anti air, bufff tanks | ||
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Thrasymachus725
Canada527 Posts
We don't think Terran anti air is lacking, but we are focusing on improving the Widow Mine which should help in this area as well. For Terran in general, this is our latest thoughts: 1. Warhound is not working out at all 2. Seeing Reapers again early game is cool + we'd like to try pushing it more 3. Widow Mine improvements to bring them more into the Terran army Also David Kim on the battle.net forums | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On September 15 2012 01:40 ROOTFayth wrote: you couldn't be more wrong, TvP on WOL is fairly balanced TvP on HOTS is an absolute joke, I picked T for fun yesterday for like 20 games and I have yet to lose TvPs Wait, your telling me that the game is much easier when you have a unit is as fast as a stalker, hits harder than a marauder, with a special attack that makes it do nearly equal damage to an immortal and that costs less than either of those units? | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On September 15 2012 01:43 Thrasymachus725 wrote: Also David Kim on the battle.net forums Thats awesome. Reapers in the early game are awesome/scary. I hope to see more battle hellions as well, since they look aweosme. | ||
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Sapphire.lux
Romania2620 Posts
On September 15 2012 01:43 Thrasymachus725 wrote: Also David Kim on the battle.net forums This is so cool! I gues with so much to change both with Terran and Protoss the next patch might take to time. | ||
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Miscellany
Wales125 Posts
On September 15 2012 01:12 Grendel wrote: Quote from David Kim: So, post away I guess. Edit, post can be found here: http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/6572967517 Thank the lord! (surely basing the model on the goliath would be best)... | ||
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Code
Canada634 Posts
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Falling
Canada11261 Posts
On September 14 2012 15:13 papaz wrote: Some of the attitude among the "pro" players is just terrible. You seem to think that you talk for the majority while posting on Teamliquid. The average player here on Teamliquid is waaaaaay above the average SC2 player. I have a lot of friends that play SC2 from time to time and guess what, they think lazers pew pew is fun and they like everything about HoTS, even the warhound. Because they (and me too for that matter) only play SC2 like once a week. BW for casuals (that is the majority of Blizzards customers, you know the majority of where the cash flow comes from) was absolutely terrible. Sure it was fun to watch Flash vs JD but playing was incredibly frustrating for someone that plays games once a week. SC2 is replayable. The definition of replayability for a lot of people here seems to be "replayable 3 hours a day at least". For me, replayable means "replayable once a week" and SC2 absolutely delivers. So I have a hard time understanding this so call "replayability" from players that play SC2 for hours per day. Blizzard is doing an absolute fantastic job with SC2. I gave up on BW because it was exhausting to play. With SC2 me and my friends finally have a game we can enjoy and play each other once a week without feeling we have to relearn everything. Thank god Blizzard has changed with time and adapted to the majority (the people you guys refer to as casuals) of players. I strongly disagree with this. Why? Because when I was in university, we recruited new people all the time for BW games. Once a week LAN's. Or maybe just every 2 weeks or once a month. Everyone was super casual except for me. But people had fun just the same. Something like the all-powerful tank, smashing through protoss lines will attract casuals I agree. But adding depth to the game doesn't make it more difficult for casuals. They just don't use it. It doesn't effect them at all. If true casual has a hard time with spell-casters, they're just straight up not going to make them. Smart-casting or no smart-casting. They'll play the game without them and find other units that are fun to play. But if they do use it on occasion, and it's extremely powerful, because it's harder to use, it's AWESOME. Even for the casual because it still does lot's of damage rather than being nerfed into a mediocre spell because it's so easy for pro's to evenly distribute AoE damage. In other words, you make it too easy on the pro's, the crazy, powerful spells get nerfed and make it less interesting for casuals as well when they make the odd foray into the harder aspects of the game. Crazy awesome damage is rewarding. Other elements of depth just fly right over the heads of casuals and don't effect the game for them in the slightest. Move-shot doesn't interfere with play if you can't be bothered to learn it. You just don't use it and right click your units forward (because you don't even know how to A move units forward- or can't be bothered.) So while it may be your experience that BW is terrible for casuals, I just can't believe that based on the number of people I've taught to play the game. And will still play the game on occasion if we ever meet up online (we're all spread out now). We just have to balance out the teams to make it fun. | ||
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SarcasmMonster
3136 Posts
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WombaT
Northern Ireland23721 Posts
On September 15 2012 02:36 Falling wrote: I strongly disagree with this. Why? Because when I was in university, we recruited new people all the time for BW games. Once a week LAN's. Or maybe just every 2 weeks or once a month. Everyone was super casual except for me. But people had fun just the same. Something like the all-powerful tank, smashing through protoss lines will attract casuals I agree. But adding depth to the game doesn't make it more difficult for casuals. They just don't use it. It doesn't effect them at all. If true casual has a hard time with spell-casters, they're just straight up not going to make them. Smart-casting or no smart-casting. They'll play the game without them and find other units that are fun to play. But if they do use it on occasion, and it's extremely powerful, because it's harder to use, it's AWESOME. Even for the casual because it still does lot's of damage rather than being nerfed into a mediocre spell because it's so easy for pro's to evenly distribute AoE damage. In other words, you make it too easy on the pro's, the crazy, powerful spells get nerfed and make it less interesting for casuals as well when they make the odd foray into the harder aspects of the game. Crazy awesome damage is rewarding. Other elements of depth just fly right over the heads of casuals and don't effect the game for them in the slightest. Move-shot doesn't interfere with play if you can't be bothered to learn it. You just don't use it and right click your units forward (because you don't even know how to A move units forward- or can't be bothered.) So while it may be your experience that BW is terrible for casuals, I just can't believe that based on the number of people I've taught to play the game. And will still play the game on occasion if we ever meet up online (we're all spread out now). We just have to balance out the teams to make it fun. This, this a thousand times. Great post. I've always felt that catering to casuals makes the game just as frustrating to casuals as it does to more serious players. It also underestimates the large proportion of people who enjoy overcoming challenges. I'll take the Call of Duty series as an example, given it's something of a casual staple. Each thing they added to help the new players, would become just as frustrating to them later on once they passed their initiation phase. A chief example was this ability called painkiller that would be activated upon a certain number of consistent deaths, and give you 3x the health for a short period. This would help to break spawn trappers and the like, but almost everybody in the game would be pissed off beyond belief about such an ability. Likewise, in almost every iteration there is just one, sometimes several 'noob cannons' aka weapons that have no real drawbacks. These don't help casual/new players because yeah they can pick up kills a bit easier than otherwise, but you'd be playing against 6 players on the opposing team with lots of experience using these obscenely good weapons and destroying the noobies. Don't even get me started on the gimmicky stuff that was added each franchise to give people 'cool' stuff that ended up reducing the game to a complete clusterfuck. Anyway, matchmaking should surely maintain casual interest? It's not as if they're going up against people way better than them every game, they're playing players of a similar skill level on ladder. Bad players will be able to pick up wins, good players likewise because they're ostensibly playing against players of their skill level. Despite this the 'ladder anxiety' is a big issue, and again Blizz are adding unranked matches to try and mitigate this further | ||
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