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Haydin
United States1481 Posts
On September 15 2012 05:31 -orb- wrote: :D Glad to see the hard work (not just by me but by the entire community!) wasn't in vain Orb the Warhound Slayer has a nice ring to it. | ||
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amd098
Korea (North)1366 Posts
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bluesteel22
United States24 Posts
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NicolBolas
United States1388 Posts
On September 15 2012 07:10 IamTheWhiteGuy wrote: Blizzard has a long and proud history of telling the community to go pound sand and doing what it knows is best (this is sometimes what people QQ for, and often not). For the first time ever, Blizzard is getting weak in the knees, and what we are seeing in HOTS is "design by committee." Mark my words, if it continues the expansion pack will be an unbalanced, low quality cluster fuck, and we are all going to regret our whining. I understand and appreciate your discontent with the fact that Blizzard appears to be caving in to what the community wants. However, there's one fact that can't be overstated: Shitty unit design is shitty. Whether it's Blizzard realizing that it's shitty, or them being told it is shitty by everyone on these and other forums, that doesn't change the fact that ditching the Warhound for a better unit is a good move. Now yes, I generally don't trust something when someone makes the right decision for the wrong reasons. The Warhound didn't need to go because of fan outcry; it needed to go because it is a shitty unit (that fact being what prompted the outcry). So consider the possibility that they're not doing it because of the fan outcry specifically. That is, Blizzard isn't necessarily doing it to placate the fans. They could be doing it because the unit is bad, they've come to realize that, and thus are going back to the drawing board. As to the rest: On September 15 2012 07:10 IamTheWhiteGuy wrote: There are no words for how unbelievably retarded and naive this viewpoint is, or moreover, how naive the OP is. If you begin to make everything a headache to do, you take the fun out of StarCraft. The OP talks about essential elements of micro like concaving and drawing back weakened units like they're non-events. That's absurd. Unless you intend to tell everyone below Diamond that they are not welcome anymore, then easy to learn, hard to master is clearly a superior philosophy to "hard to learn and harder to master." They aren't "non-events", but they aren't everything either. There's a difference between "make everything a headache" and having the only micro be spellcasting and "concaving and drawing back weakened units". There is a happy medium between these two perspectives. Good unit design should be something that is reasonably useable without much micro, but gains added teeth with micro. And ideally, different units should want to be microed differently; not everything should be about stutter-step, spells, and the usual micro tropes. Individual units should have individual micro features, just as they have individual basic attack features. The Warhound enjoys only the basic micro that every unit has. Terran is the most micro-heavy of the races, in both SC1 and SC2. But that doesn't mean you can't 1a with them at the lower leagues and still be reasonably effective against enemies of similar skill (who are 1a'ing back at you). The point is that climbing the skill ladder should require better micro, more in-depth micro, etc from the player. It should require interesting uses of individual units and so forth. It shouldn't just be a battle of who can build a concave or pull back weak units or such things. You get that in any game with units that attack. What is wanted is greater depth of micro by giving individual units specialized micro possibilities that are unique to that unit. Thus, while you can 1a, you can also do the usual micro tricks and you can master this special cool thing that they do that's kinda hard to pull off (while still macroing effectively, of course). In the arms race of micro techniques, "concaving and drawing back weakened units" is the equivalent of the "pointy stick". Nice, powerful under the right circumstances, but I'd still rather have a bow and arrow or a good shotgun. | ||
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kaokentake
383 Posts
On September 15 2012 07:10 IamTheWhiteGuy wrote: There are no words for how unbelievably retarded and naive this viewpoint is, or moreover, how naive the OP is. If you begin to make everything a headache to do, you take the fun out of StarCraft. The OP talks about essential elements of micro like concaving and drawing back weakened units like they're non-events. That's absurd. Unless you intend to tell everyone below Diamond that they are not welcome anymore, then easy to learn, hard to master is clearly a superior philosophy to "hard to learn and harder to master." Blizzard has a long and proud history of telling the community to go pound sand and doing what it knows is best (this is sometimes what people QQ for, and often not). For the first time ever, Blizzard is getting weak in the knees, and what we are seeing in HOTS is "design by committee." Mark my words, if it continues the expansion pack will be an unbalanced, low quality cluster fuck, and we are all going to regret our whining. I completely disagree. I believe blizzard has shown how amazing they are at being willing to remove a fully designed unit with complete voice recordings after realizing it might not fit in the esport scheme of things because it makes TvX just stupid. | ||
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NicolBolas
United States1388 Posts
On September 15 2012 15:44 kaokentake wrote: I completely disagree. I believe blizzard has shown how amazing they are at being willing to remove a fully designed unit with complete voice recordings after realizing it might not fit in the esport scheme of things because it makes TvX just stupid. To be fair though, it's not like the model and voice recordings can't ultimately be reused for whatever they do create. | ||
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MasterCynical
505 Posts
We really need more pros using the battle hellion and mine to make mech look better in its current state. | ||
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Diamond
United States10796 Posts
On September 15 2012 10:48 bluesteel22 wrote: Now we just need a thread pushing the professional community to allow Orb to once again cast. Why? Well he is one of the best casters out there, period. Not just in knowledge, but also in HOW he casts, how he presents situations in game, and his ability to speak clearly and quite frankly very intelligently about what is going on in a game and how it is progressing. Please community, see past the mistakes Orb has made in the distant past, he is an amazing caster, he has made up for ANY wrong doing he has done over the past months/years. This man needs to be behind a mic again. Seriously this. Orb deserves to be on major events, he's one of the highest level casters skill wise, and his commentary is so spot on. I am obviously biased, but still. | ||
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dragonsuper
Liechtenstein222 Posts
Poll: If u had to choose only ONE of these 2 options what would you... Goliath fast ground attack , great anti air, fills all the gap mech style has. (67) Marauder, promotes bio centric style , very strong stimpack/medivac combo , enormous damage output (41) 108 total votes Your vote: If u had to choose only ONE of these 2 options what would you... (Vote): Goliath fast ground attack , great anti air, fills all the gap mech style has. Please vote i'd like to reach at least 100 sample... | ||
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MCDayC
United Kingdom14464 Posts
On September 15 2012 17:19 dragonsuper wrote:+ Show Spoiler + Poll: If u had to choose only ONE of these 2 options what would you... Goliath fast ground attack , great anti air, fills all the gap mech style has. (67) Marauder, promotes bio centric style , very strong stimpack/medivac combo , enormous damage output (41) 108 total votes Your vote: If u had to choose only ONE of these 2 options what would you... (Vote): Goliath fast ground attack , great anti air, fills all the gap mech style has. Please vote i'd like to reach at least 100 sample... Oh god such an enormously silly poll... | ||
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dragonsuper
Liechtenstein222 Posts
Silly ? You probably don't understand the implications... | ||
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Voreau
United States192 Posts
On September 15 2012 17:12 Diamond wrote: Seriously this. Orb deserves to be on major events, he's one of the highest level casters skill wise, and his commentary is so spot on. I am obviously biased, but still. I concur wholeheartedly. Great caster, great insight and a great voice for the genre! Hopefully we can see more of Orb in the future! Amazing write up here and the result of this and other beta feedback is great to see. If only we could shake the fear of what might take the Warhound's place. lol | ||
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NicolBolas
United States1388 Posts
On September 15 2012 18:29 dragonsuper wrote: Silly ? You probably don't understand the implications... Implications of what? A poll based on two options that presupposes that those are the only available choices? We shouldn't want either of these. Goliaths were the best GtA unit in the game; they made Mech basically invulnerable to its supposed weakness: air. Mech should be weak to flying units. But that doesn't mean we should have a Marauder-like unit either. Given those as the only two options, I would rather that Blizzard scrap the Terran race entirely and rebuild it from scratch than see either the Warhound or the Goliath in the game. | ||
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Grumbels
Netherlands7031 Posts
On September 16 2012 00:01 NicolBolas wrote: Implications of what? A poll based on two options that presupposes that those are the only available choices? We shouldn't want either of these. Goliaths were the best GtA unit in the game; they made Mech basically invulnerable to its supposed weakness: air. Mech should be weak to flying units. But that doesn't mean we should have a Marauder-like unit either. Given those as the only two options, I would rather that Blizzard scrap the Terran race entirely and rebuild it from scratch than see either the Warhound or the Goliath in the game. We should not want mech-warrior units anyway. Like, it's so uncreative, especially when it's like marine, viking, battle hellion, thor, marauder that have elements of mech-warriors already. | ||
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jinzo123
27 Posts
Thats funny coming from a protoss player i can name atleast 3 units that are like that for toss. I hate the warhound tho and what you say is true. | ||
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sille
Sweden12 Posts
Its time to bring back some skill into SC. This game should be designed to 95% match the desires of pro/good players, not to satisfy the noobs who will play 15 hours on battlenet. | ||
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1337MAC
Finland3 Posts
On September 12 2012 23:55 Beyonder wrote: Uhm, I do not think you really get it here. It is the inherent design of the units that is at fault, which resembles Blizzards faulty design philosophy. We said this at the start of the previous BETA: "Its only the beta! It will get beter!" Yes, some problems got fixed and the games have gotten better, especially if no protoss is involved. But the game keeps getting easier, keeps getting these type of silly units and keeps being designed to attract the masses of weak players [which, ironically, as Orb rightfully points out, Blizzard still does a crappy job at]. Final product sucked last time too.. >_> Yes i know, i was using counter psychology or even sarcasm with that post :D you're right about that... now, what i really think is similar to yours; blizz nowadays (sadly) is onle after profit it seems, no decent products. We saw that from D3 also... total crap, but blizz made huge cash flow with it, even took over the sales of items. BUT this guy has a point that in sc2 (and in many fields irl) there must be sufficient testing before making any final conclusions. | ||
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convention
United States622 Posts
On September 16 2012 01:09 jinzo123 wrote: ''The warhound is an attack move unit. What I mean by this is that you do not need any fancy micro (nor is any possible) to make the warhound effective. You attack move into your opponent and you're set.'' Thats funny coming from a protoss player i can name atleast 3 units that are like that for toss. I hate the warhound tho and what you say is true. Which 3 would that be? The only two I can really think of are zealots and collosi, and honestly, collosi still require some micro if you actually want to win a fight. Zealots I will agree with, but you still need to make good decisions with zealots, e.g. when to pull back and when to engage. With charge, once you engage, you are going to lose many of those zealots. Stalkers, sentries, DTs, and HT all require lots of micro. Immortals also require a lot of micro as they are terrible against light units. VRs are mostly used as a harass/all-in unit, and in those cases they do require plenty of micro. Phoenix are one of the most micro intensive units in the game. Carriers? I suppose that can be your third a-move only unit? | ||
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SEA KarMa
Australia452 Posts
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Euronyme
Sweden3804 Posts
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