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[D] Warhound: Is it good or should it be changed? - Page 24

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 HotS
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Herect
Profile Joined January 2012
Brazil216 Posts
August 22 2012 16:29 GMT
#461
It has to be in the game to make Tank Play viable in TvP unless the Immortal, Chargelots and Blinkstalkers are completely reworked (and that is fucking hard to do and would change the game completely). And is not fair to not make it a a-move friendly, because 1) Mech play will be already too APM intensive, Tank and Widow Mine manipulation will be hard as fuck. 2) His counterpart on the Protoss army, the Immortal, is a-move friendly.

Massing them (and BH) shouldn't work in pro level/higher leagues, it lacks AoE damage, it isn't fast (because of the BH) and it is easy to be flanked or forcefielded. Tank and WM play will be required to having better map and ground control.
boxman22
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
Canada430 Posts
August 22 2012 16:34 GMT
#462
On August 23 2012 01:15 Cosmos wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 15 2012 01:50 KrazyTrumpet wrote:
On August 15 2012 01:48 Thaniri wrote:
Dakim literally said that the warhound and hellion are being designed to be a-move units in the anaheim interview.

They just don't realize how stupid that is.


Current Terran units already require lots of micro to maximize effectiveness, what's wrong with having a couple a-click units in the mix? You really want to make Terran players micro even more than they already have to?



Making other races harder instead of making terran easier would be the better option if you don't want random results in tournaments.

Yea because we're obviously nearing random results already? People qq to no end about the skill cap of SC2 without realizing we are NO WHERE NEAR IT.
Squirrel
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States1102 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-22 16:53:09
August 22 2012 16:45 GMT
#463
On August 15 2012 02:00 RUFinalBoss wrote:
mech will die BIO FOREVER EVEN IN TVT :D



Well, just kinda theorycrafting here but...

The Warhound is good vs Mechanical units(Warhounds, Thors, Hellions, Tanks) due to Haywire missles(.
It does 23 damage every 1.3 seconds(17.7 dps to all units, plus 30 damage every 6 seconds to mechanical. Both of these have 7 range.
23 dps when fully attacking a mechanical unit.
It does 5 dps when just in range and not fully attacking a mechanical unit.(Haywire Missles)
It can be repaired, does dps without attacking the unit(If a enemy mechanical is in range), and has a 2.81 move speed.
It costs 150 minerals, 75 gas, 2 supply, and 45 seconds.


A Maurader does 10 damage to all units every 1.5 seconds (6.7 dps), and 20 damage to armored units every 1.5 seconds(13.4 dps). It has 6 range.
It can Stim(Going to 10 dps against all, and 20 dps against armored), be Medivac Healed, has 125 health and 1 armor and has a movespeed of 2.25(3.175 with Stim)
It costs 100 minerals, 25 gas, 2 supply, and takes 30 seconds.


Wow, actually looking at it, what is the point of mauraders with this?

Unstimmed Maurader
It has more base dps(11), More dps against armored(Non mechanical)(4.5), More dps vs Mechanical(10)(17 vs Helions) more health(95), Higher base speed (.56)

It costs 50 more minerals and gas, and 15 more seconds.

Stimmed Maurader
It has more base dps(7.7), Less dps vs Armored(Non Mechanical)(-2.3), More dps vs Mechanical(3)(7.7 vs Helions) more health(115), Lower speed(-.3)


Costs and being healed by a medivac seems to be the only thing that makes a Maurader better...

A Warhound, as it is, is basically a high health perma stimmed Maurader without slow.
Edit: AS IT IS
I know numbers will change, but still


tnt488
Profile Joined April 2011
United States9 Posts
August 22 2012 16:47 GMT
#464
I dont think it should be anti bio... Isn't that what hellions are for?
Skill is when luck becomes a habit.
Drake
Profile Joined October 2010
Germany6146 Posts
August 22 2012 16:47 GMT
#465
they WANT it to be easy, they say other races can alot a move and terran cant so they gave them the warhound, doesnt get it totally because a move marauders arent that bad are tehy ? ^^

well we should stop talking before we plays it but you right it looks HORRIBLE not fitting in this game (like the sc2 goliat from campange looks bad as well)
Nb.Drake / CoL_Drake / Original Joined TL.net Tuesday, 15th of March 2005
cactusjack914
Profile Joined March 2011
United States183 Posts
August 22 2012 16:53 GMT
#466
Making other races harder instead of making terran easier would be the better option if you don't want random results in tournaments.


I mean, you clearly just watched video of what the pros thought of heart of the swarm because you just quoted cloud word for word with that. And that is cloud being cloud, so its clearly not your opinion at all.
"starcraft isn't a hobby, its a lifestyle."
ReaperCo
Profile Joined April 2012
Sweden46 Posts
August 22 2012 16:56 GMT
#467
they should have like a new goliath new version that looks like the old one pitch black no fucking pussy grey
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
August 22 2012 17:04 GMT
#468
On August 23 2012 01:53 cactusjack914 wrote:
Show nested quote +
Making other races harder instead of making terran easier would be the better option if you don't want random results in tournaments.


I mean, you clearly just watched video of what the pros thought of heart of the swarm because you just quoted cloud word for word with that. And that is cloud being cloud, so its clearly not your opinion at all.


Quotes Cloud about game design is genrally a bad practice. Also, I don't understand why people assume the unit is an "a-move unit". All unts can be "a-moved" and most of them do very well when they are. If anything, with this units long range, it could be used to focus down high powered units, like immortals, colossi and stalkers. Focus firing requires micro.

We need to see the unit and how it works before we say "this unit is awesome without micro".
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Zato-1
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
Chile4253 Posts
August 22 2012 17:05 GMT
#469
Warhound is pretty explicitly designed to empower Mech playstyles vs. Protoss, and possibly to shake up Mech TvT as well, and it does just that from what we know of it. I agree that the aesthetics of the Warhound make it look like it'd fit in better in a Total Annihilation game than in a Starcraft game, so maybe Blizzard should try a different art style for the unit. The unit is not a Goliath from SC:BW and I'm glad it's not, because the Goliath would be a poor fit for SC2. Unless and until serious problems arise with the Warhound during beta testing, I like it just the way it is... well, except for the art.
Go here http://vina.biobiochile.cl/ and input the Konami Code (up up down down left right left right B A)
Tsuki.eu
Profile Joined May 2011
Portugal1049 Posts
August 22 2012 17:06 GMT
#470
its fucking horrible, no one wants another basic amove unit zzzzzzzz
TrickyGilligan
Profile Joined September 2010
United States641 Posts
August 22 2012 17:06 GMT
#471
On August 23 2012 01:45 Seam wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 15 2012 02:00 RUFinalBoss wrote:
mech will die BIO FOREVER EVEN IN TVT :D



Well, just kinda theorycrafting here but...

The Warhound is good vs Mechanical units(Warhounds, Thors, Hellions, Tanks) due to Haywire missles(.
It does 23 damage every 1.3 seconds(17.7 dps to all units, plus 30 damage every 6 seconds to mechanical. Both of these have 7 range.
23 dps when fully attacking a mechanical unit.
It does 5 dps when just in range and not fully attacking a mechanical unit.(Haywire Missles)
It can be repaired, does dps without attacking the unit(If a enemy mechanical is in range), and has a 2.81 move speed.
It costs 150 minerals, 75 gas, 2 supply, and 45 seconds.


A Maurader does 10 damage to all units every 1.5 seconds (6.7 dps), and 20 damage to armored units every 1.5 seconds(13.4 dps). It has 6 range.
It can Stim(Going to 10 dps against all, and 20 dps against armored), be Medivac Healed, has 125 health and 1 armor and has a movespeed of 2.25(3.175 with Stim)
It costs 100 minerals, 25 gas, 2 supply, and takes 30 seconds.


Wow, actually looking at it, what is the point of mauraders with this?

Unstimmed Maurader
It has more base dps(11), More dps against armored(Non mechanical)(4.5), More dps vs Mechanical(10)(17 vs Helions) more health(95), Higher base speed (.56)

It costs 50 more minerals and gas, and 15 more seconds.

Stimmed Maurader
It has more base dps(7.7), Less dps vs Armored(Non Mechanical)(-2.3), More dps vs Mechanical(3)(7.7 vs Helions) more health(115), Lower speed(-.3)


Costs and being healed by a medivac seems to be the only thing that makes a Maurader better...

A Warhound, as it is, is basically a high health perma stimmed Maurader without slow.
Edit: AS IT IS
I know numbers will change, but still




Whoa, the Warhound is faster than a stimmed Marauder?

That's... scary.
"I've had a perfectly wonderful evening. But this wasn't it." -Groucho Marx
Squirrel
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States1102 Posts
August 22 2012 17:27 GMT
#472
On August 23 2012 02:06 TrickyGilligan wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 23 2012 01:45 Seam wrote:
On August 15 2012 02:00 RUFinalBoss wrote:
mech will die BIO FOREVER EVEN IN TVT :D



Well, just kinda theorycrafting here but...

The Warhound is good vs Mechanical units(Warhounds, Thors, Hellions, Tanks) due to Haywire missles(.
It does 23 damage every 1.3 seconds(17.7 dps to all units, plus 30 damage every 6 seconds to mechanical. Both of these have 7 range.
23 dps when fully attacking a mechanical unit.
It does 5 dps when just in range and not fully attacking a mechanical unit.(Haywire Missles)
It can be repaired, does dps without attacking the unit(If a enemy mechanical is in range), and has a 2.81 move speed.
It costs 150 minerals, 75 gas, 2 supply, and 45 seconds.


A Maurader does 10 damage to all units every 1.5 seconds (6.7 dps), and 20 damage to armored units every 1.5 seconds(13.4 dps). It has 6 range.
It can Stim(Going to 10 dps against all, and 20 dps against armored), be Medivac Healed, has 125 health and 1 armor and has a movespeed of 2.25(3.175 with Stim)
It costs 100 minerals, 25 gas, 2 supply, and takes 30 seconds.


Wow, actually looking at it, what is the point of mauraders with this?

Unstimmed Maurader
It has more base dps(11), More dps against armored(Non mechanical)(4.5), More dps vs Mechanical(10)(17 vs Helions) more health(95), Higher base speed (.56)

It costs 50 more minerals and gas, and 15 more seconds.

Stimmed Maurader
It has more base dps(7.7), Less dps vs Armored(Non Mechanical)(-2.3), More dps vs Mechanical(3)(7.7 vs Helions) more health(115), Lower speed(-.3)


Costs and being healed by a medivac seems to be the only thing that makes a Maurader better...

A Warhound, as it is, is basically a high health perma stimmed Maurader without slow.
Edit: AS IT IS
I know numbers will change, but still




Whoa, the Warhound is faster than a stimmed Marauder?

That's... scary.


Faster than an UNSTIMMED

Slightly slower than a stimmed.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
August 22 2012 17:30 GMT
#473
On August 23 2012 02:27 Seam wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 23 2012 02:06 TrickyGilligan wrote:
On August 23 2012 01:45 Seam wrote:
On August 15 2012 02:00 RUFinalBoss wrote:
mech will die BIO FOREVER EVEN IN TVT :D



Well, just kinda theorycrafting here but...

The Warhound is good vs Mechanical units(Warhounds, Thors, Hellions, Tanks) due to Haywire missles(.
It does 23 damage every 1.3 seconds(17.7 dps to all units, plus 30 damage every 6 seconds to mechanical. Both of these have 7 range.
23 dps when fully attacking a mechanical unit.
It does 5 dps when just in range and not fully attacking a mechanical unit.(Haywire Missles)
It can be repaired, does dps without attacking the unit(If a enemy mechanical is in range), and has a 2.81 move speed.
It costs 150 minerals, 75 gas, 2 supply, and 45 seconds.


A Maurader does 10 damage to all units every 1.5 seconds (6.7 dps), and 20 damage to armored units every 1.5 seconds(13.4 dps). It has 6 range.
It can Stim(Going to 10 dps against all, and 20 dps against armored), be Medivac Healed, has 125 health and 1 armor and has a movespeed of 2.25(3.175 with Stim)
It costs 100 minerals, 25 gas, 2 supply, and takes 30 seconds.


Wow, actually looking at it, what is the point of mauraders with this?

Unstimmed Maurader
It has more base dps(11), More dps against armored(Non mechanical)(4.5), More dps vs Mechanical(10)(17 vs Helions) more health(95), Higher base speed (.56)

It costs 50 more minerals and gas, and 15 more seconds.

Stimmed Maurader
It has more base dps(7.7), Less dps vs Armored(Non Mechanical)(-2.3), More dps vs Mechanical(3)(7.7 vs Helions) more health(115), Lower speed(-.3)


Costs and being healed by a medivac seems to be the only thing that makes a Maurader better...

A Warhound, as it is, is basically a high health perma stimmed Maurader without slow.
Edit: AS IT IS
I know numbers will change, but still




Whoa, the Warhound is faster than a stimmed Marauder?

That's... scary.


Faster than an UNSTIMMED

Slightly slower than a stimmed.


It is slightly slower than a stalker to. It will be able to kit stalkers(range 7) without blink, though its DSP is so high, I don't know why it wouldn't just dump on them. Also with range 7, it can opperate a good distance behind battle hellions.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
renaissanceMAN
Profile Joined March 2011
United States1840 Posts
August 22 2012 17:33 GMT
#474
can we just bring back the goliath minus the anti-air instead?

warhound looks ugly and sounds stupid
On August 15 2013 03:43 Waxangel wrote: no amount of money can replace the enjoyment of being mean to people on the internet
vicml21
Profile Joined May 2007
Canada165 Posts
August 22 2012 18:05 GMT
#475
I still think the warhound looks ugly, scv on stilts type ugly, but I guess that can always be changed.

I dislike the a-click type behaviour of the warhound and the other units in general. It disappoints me a bit to hear from the interviews with David Kim that they add these types of units to cater to the casual players. I think the unlimited selection caters to them enough, but I believe that higher level players should be able to get more out of every unit through some kind of micro, further setting apart rookies to novice to pro and everything inbetween.

Hopefully if they dont change it by beta, the warhound gets abused that they change the unit or remove it entirely before the release of HOTS.
"Meow" - Probe
O INSANE O
Profile Joined May 2011
United States83 Posts
August 22 2012 18:09 GMT
#476
The fact that the beta isn't even out yet and we have complainers about the new units is sad. Why doesn't the community just wait for the beta then complain?
Gben592
Profile Joined August 2012
United Kingdom281 Posts
August 22 2012 18:59 GMT
#477
On August 23 2012 03:09 O INSANE O wrote:
The fact that the beta isn't even out yet and we have complainers about the new units is sad. Why doesn't the community just wait for the beta then complain?


Because beta is mainly about balance and many of us have problems with the core concepts and design behind this unit.

It's just another no skill a-move unit... and its making mech into a slower bio, which isn't mech (read the big article "In defence of Mech")
"The more skilled player is the one who wins, and I don't think there's better balance than what we have now." INnoVation
Greenei
Profile Joined November 2011
Germany1754 Posts
August 22 2012 19:08 GMT
#478
it's useless against zerg and amovy. just make zerg and toss harder plz.
IMBA IMBA IMBA IMBA IMBA IMBA
paddyz
Profile Joined May 2011
Ireland628 Posts
August 22 2012 19:32 GMT
#479
Change or remove it. Don't want an a move unit that does bonus damage vs 90% of protoss units.
BlackPanther
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States872 Posts
August 22 2012 19:33 GMT
#480
Honestly, I think they need to get rid of the haywire missiles and give it an long range single-target DPS AA attack. It would make them more viable in TvZ vs brood lords as well as maintaining effectiveness against collosi.
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