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On August 16 2012 11:29 Whitewing wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2012 09:20 -NegativeZero- wrote:On August 16 2012 04:45 Stratos_speAr wrote:On August 16 2012 03:55 Whitewing wrote:On August 16 2012 03:37 Stratos_speAr wrote:On August 16 2012 03:29 Whitewing wrote:On August 16 2012 01:00 baba1 wrote:On August 16 2012 00:50 Ramiz1989 wrote:On August 16 2012 00:34 Zach_Attack wrote:On August 16 2012 00:24 Ramiz1989 wrote:
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I know, but that is what I've said, there are like 5% of those good posts, that give Blizzard suggestion on what to change. I saw your post earlier, just wasn't able to read it because I was at work.
And majority of posts look like this:
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Even though they have said that they don't want to add any old units back, people still ask for them. In one preview Blizzard said they were going to make the warhound essentially the goliath. It was going to have AA, ground attack and they were going to ditch the thor. It seems pretty reasonable to ask for the old version of the warhound aka the goliath especially because if seems to fulfill both the warhound's and the thor's roles better. If they want to keep the thor they need to make the warhound's ground combat ability in line with the golaiths. But that is the point, it isn't Goliath, it maybe feels a bit like Goliath, but it will be just a smaller Thor, with really strong GtG attack and AoE GtA attack. You can ask for that, but asking for Goliath is retarded, especially because we already have the Goliath, and it is called Viking, it is almost the same as Goliath, expect that he has to be in Air mode to have Air Attack. Goliath doesn't even have the same role as a Thor, Goliath have long range GtA attack that is great vs. large units(in other words, armored in SC2), and pretty weak GtG attack vs. Large units, but better for smaller units. Thor has AoE GtA attack that is great vs. small(light) units, has huge burst potential for GtG, which is good vs. large(armored) units. That is why the "old" Warhound wasn't even close to the Goliath(except that it was more mobile than Thor), but it actually was the small Thor, it countered all units that Thor does, and served the same purpose. I want to see you fighting Mutas if we remove the Thor and replace it with Goliath that is pretty terrible vs. Mutas(make its air attack strong as Viking's). It just doesn't work that way, you have to look from every angle, and to understand what will that break and what will that make. To be honest, I also liked the old Warhound, but I don't necessarily mean that this one is awful, this one for me, has quite good concept and because of its speed, it can be microed, and you can kite with it. We will have to wait and see, but whining "BAAAAAH AWFUL! I WANT MY GOLIATH BACK!" won't help at all... Whaaaaat? Are you sure you play Starcraft 2 ? How the hell do you compare Goliath to Vikings?? LOL! Vikings never needed that ground mode anyway, it's retarded and useless. Get rid of it. Bring back the GOLIATH because the warhound is god AWFUL! Replacing an awesome unit by a boring and ugly robot won't help at all... Viking ground mode gets a lot of use in TvT, and gets used in PvT after colossi die. Vikings are actually pretty decent on the ground. I'm hard-pressed to think of a unit that ground Vikings trade cost-efficiently with. Hellions? Reapers? Can you think of many units in BW on the ground that goliaths traded cost-efficiently with? And yeah, vikings do very well vs. hellions, reapers, do pretty well vs. marines before stim and medivacs, do pretty hilariously well vs. hydralisks (although nobody makes them in the matchup), and they get used for harass (see every TvT Gumiho plays). They're like super mobile goliaths. Goliaths did well vs. Marines, Firebats, unsieged Siege Tanks, Vultures, Zealots, Dragoons (situationally), Dark Templar, Zerglings, Hydralisks, Wraiths, Battlecruisers, Scouts, Carriers, Mutalisks, and Guardians (all with the range upgrade). The Viking's place in the tech tree means that you will almost never get it out before Marines have Stim/Combat Shield. I've also never actually seen Vikings trade well against Hydralisks due to the Hydralisk's ridiculous DPS, I'll have to test that. They're also sub-par for harass due to their high cost, the fact that they take away from Medivac production, and the fact that you need to keep them for AA and so losing them is a big setback. lol have you ever even played BW? Goliaths were actually pretty terrible vs most ground units - in fact they had literally the exact same stats as a viking vs ground units (12 dmg, 125 hp) albeit at a lower cost. The only ground units they beat convincingly were vultures, zerglings, marines, and firebats, and you'd never even see the last 2 in a normal TvT. They were mediocre vs zealots and were just plain bad vs tanks, hydras, and dragoons due to explosive damage. People really only got them for antiair. Not to mention you couldn't make goliaths with a reactor. Goliaths just plain sucked ass on the ground, and they had the exact same function as vikings do: you got them when you badly needed anti-air. Vikings are better goliaths (mobility) that don't need an upgrade to have decent range. The cost factor isn't even that relevant because you gain money quicker in SC2. As for the warhound now: as it stands it has no unique function or purpose, other than to make terran players play mech like it was bio. It's just a marauder built from the factory for the most part, and not even a particularly good one, since medivacs can't heal it. Mech doesn't need it, it's only function is to have terran make fewer tanks. Change the ability to be something that actually helps mech, like an ability that acts a spotter for a siege tank and increases its range or vision, or a defensive matrix or something like the BC has in the campaign to allow it to soak damage. They shouldn't just be a quicker, high damage dealing, mech destroyer built from a factory.
I think that an important thing to note is that Goliaths used Factory upgrades. Having your Goliaths get the same upgrades with your Tanks and Vultures meant that you did not need to invest extra to get them, whereas Vikings require a completely different building and upgrade set. If the Viking built from the Factory and used Mech upgrades instead of Sky-mech upgrades, then it might be more like the Goliath.
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The warhound is just lazy design imo. It's a terran Roach. It's fast, high health, and good DPS/cost. It seems too general-purpose and all-around good for a factory unit. It certainly doesn't fit the mech playstyle at all.
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i played hots @games con
its a amazing unit
it destroys mass hydras
the problem with mech right now its very imobile
now you have with thor warhound battel hellion and mines thart secure your flanks and bases
a nice deathball
i mean its cost like a viking and do so much more
about the design .....you get used to it fast
if not play toos or zerg
ps : goody will evolve in hots from tanks general into MECH-GENERAL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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On August 22 2012 08:13 perser84 wrote:
i played hots @games con
its a amazing unit
it destroys mass hydras
the problem with mech right now its very imobile
now you have with thor warhound battel hellion and mines thart secure your flanks and bases
a nice deathball
i mean its cost like a viking and do so much more
about the design .....you get used to it fast
if not play toos or zerg
ps : goody will evolve in hots from tanks general into MECH-GENERAL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
There's the issue "it destroys mass hydra" it's an anti MECHANICAL unit. Not an anti light. Mass warhound will rape anything on the ground.
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On August 19 2012 06:45 SolidMoose wrote:Show nested quote +On August 19 2012 06:32 Dephy wrote:On August 17 2012 01:44 Zach_Attack wrote:On August 16 2012 11:29 Whitewing wrote:On August 16 2012 09:20 -NegativeZero- wrote:On August 16 2012 04:45 Stratos_speAr wrote:On August 16 2012 03:55 Whitewing wrote:On August 16 2012 03:37 Stratos_speAr wrote:On August 16 2012 03:29 Whitewing wrote:On August 16 2012 01:00 baba1 wrote:
[quote]
Whaaaaat? Are you sure you play Starcraft 2 ? How the hell do you compare Goliath to Vikings?? LOL!
Vikings never needed that ground mode anyway, it's retarded and useless. Get rid of it.
Bring back the GOLIATH because the warhound is god AWFUL!
Replacing an awesome unit by a boring and ugly robot won't help at all... Viking ground mode gets a lot of use in TvT, and gets used in PvT after colossi die. Vikings are actually pretty decent on the ground. I'm hard-pressed to think of a unit that ground Vikings trade cost-efficiently with. Hellions? Reapers? Can you think of many units in BW on the ground that goliaths traded cost-efficiently with? And yeah, vikings do very well vs. hellions, reapers, do pretty well vs. marines before stim and medivacs, do pretty hilariously well vs. hydralisks (although nobody makes them in the matchup), and they get used for harass (see every TvT Gumiho plays). They're like super mobile goliaths. Goliaths did well vs. Marines, Firebats, unsieged Siege Tanks, Vultures, Zealots, Dragoons (situationally), Dark Templar, Zerglings, Hydralisks, Wraiths, Battlecruisers, Scouts, Carriers, Mutalisks, and Guardians (all with the range upgrade). The Viking's place in the tech tree means that you will almost never get it out before Marines have Stim/Combat Shield. I've also never actually seen Vikings trade well against Hydralisks due to the Hydralisk's ridiculous DPS, I'll have to test that. They're also sub-par for harass due to their high cost, the fact that they take away from Medivac production, and the fact that you need to keep them for AA and so losing them is a big setback. lol have you ever even played BW? Goliaths were actually pretty terrible vs most ground units - in fact they had literally the exact same stats as a viking vs ground units (12 dmg, 125 hp) albeit at a lower cost. The only ground units they beat convincingly were vultures, zerglings, marines, and firebats, and you'd never even see the last 2 in a normal TvT. They were mediocre vs zealots and were just plain bad vs tanks, hydras, and dragoons due to explosive damage. People really only got them for antiair. Not to mention you couldn't make goliaths with a reactor. Goliaths just plain sucked ass on the ground, and they had the exact same function as vikings do: you got them when you badly needed anti-air. Vikings are better goliaths (mobility) that don't need an upgrade to have decent range. The cost factor isn't even that relevant because you gain money quicker in SC2. As for the warhound now: as it stands it has no unique function or purpose, other than to make terran players play mech like it was bio. It's just a marauder built from the factory for the most part, and not even a particularly good one, since medivacs can't heal it. Mech doesn't need it, it's only function is to have terran make fewer tanks. Change the ability to be something that actually helps mech, like an ability that acts a spotter for a siege tank and increases its range or vision, or a defensive matrix or something like the BC has in the campaign to allow it to soak damage. They shouldn't just be a quicker, high damage dealing, mech destroyer built from a factory. The real issue with vikings is they can't adapt fast enough from air to ground. You also end up with boring corrupter vs viking battles often times which is basically watching two identical units slug it out. Having a ground form unit thats goliath esque would create some much more interesting ways for all the matchups to play out. I already wrote this somewhere, but it would be interesting if they just remade viking into more ground based unit. Buff its damage also add long range air anti armored attack(make it crap vs light). Remake air mode for transportation and dealing with light air unit. And then colossus become ridiculously strong. Changes like that aren't so easy.
The goliath's AA will kick in and its long range missiles will be engaged ;p PEW PEW It works.
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On August 22 2012 08:13 perser84 wrote:
i played hots @games con
its a amazing unit
it destroys mass hydras
the problem with mech right now its very imobile
now you have with thor warhound battel hellion and mines thart secure your flanks and bases
a nice deathball
i mean its cost like a viking and do so much more
about the design .....you get used to it fast
if not play toos or zerg
ps : goody will evolve in hots from tanks general into MECH-GENERAL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
right, so why would you ever make bio again?
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I get the feeling that they are trying to get Terran players to play higher up the tech tree, to look at the terran army options back to as Teir 1,2, and 3 instead of Bio, Mech, and end-game Mech. I think it was kind of surprising that the MMM ball turned out to be so damn good in certain situations (vs Protoss entirely, and pretty good vs Zerg early to mid game and as surgical hit squad in the late game).
The warhouse looks to be an interesting unit. I am not sure if I like the missile that it auto fires. I almost want that to be a cooldown spell - even if the cooldown is the same as that abilities normal rate of fire (slow) - just to force some kind of micro with it. It's standard rate of fire and standard weapon I would leave untouched.
I'd even go so far, to maybe suggest two researchable items for it - the anti ground anti armor attach (with above proposed cooldown) or a research options for an Anti-air attach with no splash, and not very long range. The same missile animation could be used for both. The only thing that would he hard to figure out is how the interface would allow for one or the other, but not both at the same time.
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I think instead of dumbing down Terran, they should be forcing the other races to play with skill. Also, warhound is super ugly.
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It's too easy to use and way too powerful, reduce the "haywire" damage to armoured and force it to be target able..
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It doesn't bring much more than a marauder does, its probably just going to replace it in situations where there are a lot of mechanical units. Its like they didn't want to look like they were copying the goliath so they just just made a mechanical version of the marauder that's better vs mechanical units.
The design of the unit is really poor, but I'm also worried about how haywire is ever going to be balanced, it can't be good in situations without mechanical units if it has a second attack that does huge damage to mechanical because it will be ridiculous.
I want it to be a unit with a long range attack vs air (BUT NOT A FUCKING AUTOATTACK BECAUSE ITS EASIER THAN MAKING OTHER RACES MICRO MORE) and then a weak ground attack so it needs the support of other ground units like tanks to not die to almost everything that attacks ground.
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On August 15 2012 01:51 CptCutter wrote:
you guys really shouldnt complain until at least the beta has started. you have no idea on how it will play out.
The issue is that if the unit in general is bad, it might be too late to get rid of it by the time beta is out.
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The rise of Goody is incoming massing imbalanced units and 1aing them across the board in games he should not win ^^. Everyone love and bow to the warhound, it is his savior!
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I liked the old model when the first announced it, but that would require the Thor to be removed. They've said that they hate the Thor. It's quite puzzling that they brought it back after announcing it to be gone because they didn't like it. Seems lazy.
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On August 22 2012 09:14 GhandiEAGLE wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2012 01:51 CptCutter wrote:
you guys really shouldnt complain until at least the beta has started. you have no idea on how it will play out. The issue is that if the unit in general is bad, it might be too late to get rid of it by the time beta is out.
I think there are aspects of it which are very good personally. But to each their own.
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It will be the strongest unit in sc2 if it stays the same.
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I prefer a click units a hell of a lot more than units like infestors imo. If you have a bigger and better upgraded army than your opponent it's because you outplayed him. Micro should just give you small advantages during a fight, not win you the game from a few abilities.
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its an anti mechanical mechanical marine that looks like an ostrich. at least it doesn't shoot dildos anymore
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On August 22 2012 09:47 di3alot wrote:
its an anti mechanical mechanical marine that looks like an ostrich. at least it doesn't shoot dildos anymore
it beats marines and marauders, :D . Its likes marine that got air attack removed and instead got 2x hp buff. Not bad trade of i would say.
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On August 15 2012 01:50 KrazyTrumpet wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2012 01:48 Thaniri wrote:
Dakim literally said that the warhound and hellion are being designed to be a-move units in the anaheim interview.
They just don't realize how stupid that is. Current Terran units already require lots of micro to maximize effectiveness, what's wrong with having a couple a-click units in the mix? You really want to make Terran players micro even more than they already have to?
Making other races harder instead of making terran easier would be the better option if you don't want random results in tournaments.
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It seemed that, at least in the hots custom game, the warhound really just stood there and fired off its ability randomly. Totally underwhelming; it was just another unit that stood in a line and fired, except it didn't have stim.
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EPT
