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Couldn't find a thread on this specifically. Close it down if it overlaps too much with other threads.
So... what is the deal with the goliath design?
The graphics of the unit look like they took an intern's afternoon to make.
The voice acting is absolutely horrendous (grrrlarth arnline... chfirmed).
The damn thing bounces up and down when it uses its anti air (I upgraded it to hit air and ground at the same time just so it wouldn't bounce).
The portrait looks EXACTLY like dustin browder.
Aside from how badly it is designed, what do you think of its usefulness? It seems significantly nerfed from broodwar due to its increased cost (150/50 from 100/50) and its base attack range is significantly less than its counterpart in bw. Would you use it in its current form in multiplayer? I would personally take vikings against armored air or thors against light air, and its ground to ground for its cost is nothing to shake a stick at.
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yes i would. first thing i did in a co-op was think "ok im gonna mass gols" and was sorely disappointed when they werent there
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I loved the goliaths, massed them on most missions 
But the voice acting was terrible (applies to lots of units), they could have done better or just used the old unit sounds 
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I thought the Goliath was an excellent unit, especially when mixed with thors and marines. using it in multiplayer is a bit more iffy, I play primarily zerg though, but I think that it would appear as a less powerful version of the Thor, which could be very useful in many situations but I feel would tip the scales a bit (more) in terran favor. a few (3) of those things mixed with terran bio would be very strong. adding the goliath to multiplayer could possibly work later when other units are added to the otehr races.
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Goliaths are 150/50, not 150/100.
They're better than vikings overall except in a few specific missions because they're better against ground. They suck without their upgrades though.
Assuming it had the antiair range upgrade, I'd certainly use it in multiplayer. They're really good.
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I don't like their design either. Didn't even find them useful, considering that MMM is insanely strong with those upgraded medics.
Imo they put way too many Browder images into the game. And that "Terrible terrible damage" nonsense really is sooo bad...
Never noticed them bouncing up and down... most likely because I never built them I guess. But that reminds me of that buggy terrain in the first room of the secret mission... There are places where your units suddenly fall through the floor...
On August 06 2010 06:46 crate wrote:
Goliaths are 150/50, not 150/100.
They're better than vikings overall except in a few specific missions because they're better against ground. They suck without their upgrades though.
Assuming it had the antiair range upgrade, I'd certainly use it in multiplayer. They're really good.
Uh, whenever I made Vikings (rarely...), I had to move around difficult terrain. Goliaths would have had to take long paths. Goliaths can't land on cliffs or islands.
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They also cost 3 supply now I believe... Alot of the old SC1 units cost more supply, like the medic and firebat I think.
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The voice doesn't bother me that much, the portrait and model on the other hand are horrific. The goliath pilot looks like a cross-eyed fat guy and totally not right for the voice. The spartan, well.. it's browder, I have no bad feeling towards the guy but it looks out of place.
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On August 06 2010 06:49 spinesheath wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2010 06:46 crate wrote:
Goliaths are 150/50, not 150/100.
They're better than vikings overall except in a few specific missions because they're better against ground. They suck without their upgrades though.
Assuming it had the antiair range upgrade, I'd certainly use it in multiplayer. They're really good. Uh, whenever I made Vikings (rarely...), I had to move around difficult terrain. Goliaths would have had to take long paths. Goliaths can't land on cliffs or islands.
I made them only when I wanted to make tanks also. They stick with your tanks just fine. But gol/tank works fine in most missions. You could probably use M&M instead in most of them.
Vikings are better in the mission where you get them (either version), in All In, and in the mission where you get battlecruisers. You can argue either way about Engine of Destruction. Goliaths are better than vikings elsewhere imo.
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What about Vulture? It has awful design, BW one is so better than that "thing".
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On August 06 2010 07:01 ReiKo wrote:
What about Vulture? It has awful design, BW one is so better than that "thing".
oh yea. especially the voice acting. like some guy on tranquilizers.
"dig it..."
"what... do you... want... yawn"
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Not just the Goliath. The Vulture and Wraith feel like shells of their former selves also, Blizzard nerfed them big time when they brought them to SC2 and I think its because they want us to use the newer units.
Though I felt like Firebat, Medic, and Science Vessel were stronger than in Brood War and would love to see them back in multiplayer.
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Vulture is depressed that he got left out of multiplayer That, or he ran out of stimpacks.
Also on the topic of unit aesthetics, I think that they did the best job with the Science Vessel. God, that guy pissed me off in BW, but now he's some crazy robotic mad scientist. Awesome.
Anyways, I don't really think I would utilize Goliaths in multiplayer. Vikings are just ridiculously good against armored-air, they're way more mobile, and they have the potential to harass or deny ridiculously well. Thors fit the role of anti-light-air very well with their splash, and are powerful damage soakers on the ground as well. Plus, the model is really, really ugly, it's really round looking and simple compared to terran's other more blocky and detailed units.
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I really like Goliaths. They obviously aren't as mobile as vikings but one of the upgrades let them attack air and ground at the same time. They're also cheaper and don't require as much babysitting.
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I keep confusing them with Vikings.
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I don't know if I would use goliaths in ladder over vikings, even if they came with range 9. I would probably use them occasionally if I saw, say, mass void rays or mutas or banshees and I didn't have starport tech. Overall I feel vikings are a superior unit with better mobility and versatility, something terran sorely lacks.
Yeah the big advantage goliaths have over vikings is the lack of a starport to build. To be fair, that is a very large advantage in tight matches.
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lets put it this way, at 150/100, thats half the price of a thor. i'd definitely go for the thor.
alternatively viking as said above is alot better measure for pure anti air.
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In terms of balance, who cares? They were for single player, so they weren't balanced with such scrutiny.
I totally agree about the art aspect of it though. The Goliath looks REALLY bad, and the unit portrait is also pretty lame. I understand that they didn't put as much time into this unit as one that would be in multiplayer, but damn, it's very sad looking... And players notice.
Goliaths were one of my favorite units from SC1, and it was kinda sad to see them as a way less cool version of their former-selves.
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None of the BW units in the campaign (other than the medic/science vessel) are very useful outside of the mission they are introduced in.
I wouldn't worry too much into how balanced they are since they aren't being used in multiplayer.
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On August 06 2010 09:15 sev1 wrote:Vulture is depressed that he got left out of multiplayer That, or he ran out of stimpacks. Also on the topic of unit aesthetics, I think that they did the best job with the Science Vessel. God, that guy pissed me off in BW, but now he's some crazy robotic mad scientist. Awesome. Anyways, I don't really think I would utilize Goliaths in multiplayer. Vikings are just ridiculously good against armored-air, they're way more mobile, and they have the potential to harass or deny ridiculously well. Thors fit the role of anti-light-air very well with their splash, and are powerful damage soakers on the ground as well. Plus, the model is really, really ugly, it's really round looking and simple compared to terran's other more blocky and detailed units.
wtf HOW CAN YOU PICK THAT NEW GUY OVER FUCKING MR.BURNS PILOTING UR VESSELS
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So the goliath looks crappy on settings other than lowest, eh? Do to scourge look crappy on other graphics as well? There was another unit from single player that looks crappy, but I can't remember which. But a lot of the remakes look rushed.
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I was wondering the same thing, they look so bad, so blocky and tall, when I first saw them I thought they were a new unit, I was expecting them to look like they did in starcraft ghost, badass and all. and the attack animation and sound are horrible as well, very disappointed as they were one my favorite units of all time
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I think ya'll missed the joke. The operators of Vulture, Goliath, and perhaps a few other BW-era units are really old now. They lack the vigor of their youth and probably aren't looking forward to being cannon fodder in another Zerg war.
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On August 07 2010 06:03 Gedrah wrote:I think ya'll missed the joke. The operators of Vulture, Goliath, and perhaps a few other BW-era units are really old now. They lack the vigor of their youth and probably aren't looking forward to being cannon fodder in another Zerg war.
So 4 years is enough to turn a young, idealistic recruit into a bitter old man? 
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On August 07 2010 06:45 Euphemism wrote:Show nested quote +On August 07 2010 06:03 Gedrah wrote:I think ya'll missed the joke. The operators of Vulture, Goliath, and perhaps a few other BW-era units are really old now. They lack the vigor of their youth and probably aren't looking forward to being cannon fodder in another Zerg war. So 4 years is enough to turn a young, idealistic recruit into a bitter old man?
You'd be surprised at what combat can do to you. I mean, look at what these guys have been through over the last four years: Zerg invasions, Confederate power struggles, the overthrow of said Confederacy by equally corrupt Dominion, Protoss planet-glassing, the UED's mad bid for Zerg control, Terran civil wars in general, the birth of the Queen of Blades...
I don't think it's unreasonable to think that veterans from any/all of these events would become jaded and fatigued from it all. Mindless killing, watching your friends die in agony, your homes destroyed by the conflict you got wound up in... It's sobering, on the mind and body.
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I dunno. The Battlecruisers, marines, medics, SCVs, ghosts, siege tanks, and wraiths didn't seem all that affected by 4 years of horror at all.
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I disagree, I think that the goliath model looked fine for a 2D-3D transition, although it took some getting used to because it wasn't the way I imagined it.
The 2D sprite leaves a lot to your imagination.
The decals on the unit show that some time when into it, I think there was 3-4 alternate textures for it, and a walker mech would need to absorb some recoil when firing massive rockets, so I think the bobbing thing is reasonable.
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United Kingdom16710 Posts
some of the units did feel quite shoddy and flimsy. maybe blizz forgot to give themselves enough time and just rushed through some of the campaign units.
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On August 07 2010 07:32 The_Pacifist wrote:
I dunno. The Battlecruisers, marines, medics, SCVs, ghosts, siege tanks, and wraiths didn't seem all that affected by 4 years of horror at all.
the scv got a race change.
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I think Blizzard is sending BW diehards a message...
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They didnt get a nerf at all. 18 damage auto guns with still that awesom Anti air. Plus attacking air and ground same time with huge AA range is amazing. I would often go MnM with goliths in my campaign missions.
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I agree, when I first played through the campaign and saw it, I thought "Wth is this crap?" It looks way less powerful than in SC1 and the missiles aren't as cool looking. The only thing that I think is cool is that you can get the upgrade that allows you to fire ground and air simultaneously.
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Goliath appearance in SC2 sucks. Only redeeming thing about their appearance is that they got like 3-4 different skins.
I don't mind the SOUND of the new goliath, I think it's actually a nice change, while still keeping a REALLY similar feel. The problem I have is you can't understand ANYTHING the goliath is saying! The only reason you can for most of what he says (until the later part of the annoyed messages) is because they are the same speech as SC1, so you know what to expect him to say.
The portrait looks really stupid too, yeah but I care about that the least.
Vulture, totally lost all uniqueness/coolness to the voice. Wraith was never cool to me, but I don't think I heard the SC2 voice (much at least).
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On August 07 2010 11:00 ramen247 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 07 2010 07:32 The_Pacifist wrote:
I dunno. The Battlecruisers, marines, medics, SCVs, ghosts, siege tanks, and wraiths didn't seem all that affected by 4 years of horror at all. the scv got a race change.
but the scv from bw got promoted to a maradur pretty good they were so good the new rednecks are weaker 45 hp -_-
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Yeah I didnt like it either. Maybe they just wanted a quick effortless "wink wink" tribute to sc1 units.. . Prolly just an excuse to put their buddies' faces as portraits, without putting them on main character/units..
Haha, scv race change. Reminds me, there's a severe lack of asians in space :0
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On August 06 2010 07:34 Chuiu wrote:
Not just the Goliath. The Vulture and Wraith feel like shells of their former selves also, Blizzard nerfed them big time when they brought them to SC2 and I think its because they want us to use the newer units.
Though I felt like Firebat, Medic, and Science Vessel were stronger than in Brood War and would love to see them back in multiplayer.
Firebat would be way too good in MP. It'd be a hellion that could tank for your bioball while your M&M ball ripped units to shreds.
Science Vessel would be absolutely absurd in Terran mech vs Zerg. Irradiate plus heals mech units?
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the spider mine animation was terrible too. so small and stupid looking
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Anyone know if you get the upgrade in single player that allows goliaths to attack air and ground simultaneously, if you order a goliath to attack a colossus will he shoot it and fire missiles at the same time?
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On August 06 2010 10:42 nttea wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2010 09:15 sev1 wrote:Vulture is depressed that he got left out of multiplayer That, or he ran out of stimpacks. Also on the topic of unit aesthetics, I think that they did the best job with the Science Vessel. God, that guy pissed me off in BW, but now he's some crazy robotic mad scientist. Awesome. Anyways, I don't really think I would utilize Goliaths in multiplayer. Vikings are just ridiculously good against armored-air, they're way more mobile, and they have the potential to harass or deny ridiculously well. Thors fit the role of anti-light-air very well with their splash, and are powerful damage soakers on the ground as well. Plus, the model is really, really ugly, it's really round looking and simple compared to terran's other more blocky and detailed units. wtf HOW CAN YOU PICK THAT NEW GUY OVER FUCKING MR.BURNS PILOTING UR VESSELS
My thoughts exactly about the Science Vessels
As for Goliaths, my main army composition in Campaign consisted of Marines, Medics, Marauders, and Goliaths. Goliaths with both upgrades are really good at dealing with a combination of ground and air when they support Marine/Marauder. I never focused on them though, only spare resources went into them. They still had a good bang for their buck though.
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Stat wise they are weaker than BW goliaths, which are cheaper and attack faster.
I never built them in the campaign. For ground targets MMM and 100 damage tanks are much better and vs air vikings have splash and 11 range.
Having the ability to attack both air and ground isn't that big of a plus, since typically the enemy force is mostly ground or air, and not an even mix. The only mission where it would help a lot, is the one where they are introduced, but then you can't have the upgrade in that mission.
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well the dustin browder is intentional, you can check it out on the starcraft wikia for details
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The bigger question is why SCVs are nerfed. They only mine 4 minerals, take the same space, and have 5 less hp. They did not get upgraded at all, in fact they got deupgraded or downgraded. I want the old SCV back please.
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SC2 Goliath sounds like a retard (literally), the SC1 had a very serious and clear voice.
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even if they came with range 9
That would be the end all imba massacre. Mass goliaths with MM=End all multiplayer.
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EPT
