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What I don't understand is how the best story they could come up with is a blatant copy+paste of Warcraft 3's story. I mean, inspiration is one thing, but ripping-off is another. It's only the first campaign and we're already seeing strong signs of how it's gonna turn out.
The Burning Legion Hybrids led by Sargeras the Dark Voice are coming to unmake everything the Titans Xel'Naga created, and we have no choice but to work together since the orcs zerg aren't really that evil and were just enslaved. Don't worry though, because Thrall Kerrigan will free them and give us the hope we need.
The potential of SC2's storytelling is great, but they didn't pull it off well at all. SC1 and WC3 may be primitive, but Blizzard did an excellent job of working with what they had. The BW intro still trounces over any WoL cinematic, and the Overmind's opening speech alone beats out anything Kerrigan said in WoL.
In addition, I also don't take kindly to how all the characters got retconned or derailed in SC2:
SC1 Raynor: Infuriated by Kerrigan's murderous spree and swearing to kill her over Fenix's death.
SC2 Raynor: Lovesick drunk who only cares to save Kerrigan and completely forgets about Fenix.
SC1 Kerrigan: Sinister villain who relies heavily on cunning and manipulation rather than brute strength.
SC2 Kerrigan: Generic villain who relies on brute strength, and has absolutely no role other than being a walking plot device.
SC1 Zeratul: Warrior poet with a sophisticated yet still down-to-earth manner of speaking who maintains a powerful aura of mystery, intelligence, and power.
SC2 Zeratul: Wispy old man who slooooooooowly speaks in pointless riddles, horribly cliched dialogue over prophecies and hope, and constantly speaks to himself over the most obvious things which make him sound senile. (I mean I know it's for tutorial's sake, but christ Blizzard, there IS a way to give a tutorial while still maintaining a character's personality)
SC1 Mengsk: Honorable man who gradually becomes a power-hungry dictator, but still extremely charismatic with a strong prescence.
SC2 Mengsk: Nothing. Has so little role in the story he might as well not exist. Just take every mention of "Mengsk" and replace it with "evil bad guy" and you pretty much keep everything intact.
I hate retcons precisely for this reason. Even if they don't cripple the story, they end up making it a lot less engaging because there's really nothing fans can get attached to since they can just get rewritten entirely by the next game/novel, especially since the character changes have either no explanation or a very shallow one. They teach story consistency in writing class for a reason.
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On August 12 2010 09:38 DrainX wrote:
I like the story so far in SC2. We have to remember that this is just the first part of three. Many of the stories are just a build up for the second two campaigns. You can't judge it alone. If you saw the first third of any movie then of course the story would suck. It is incomplete.
Well... this game SHOULD at least have enough content to be standalone. You don't break a movie into 3 parts and not expect people to criticise the lack of context. "This is only 1/3 of the full story" is NOT a valid excuse. WoL SHOULDN'T be 1/3 of the movie... it SHOULD be the first of 3 movies.
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The Burning Legion / Hybrids led by Sargeras / the Dark Voice are coming to unmake everything the Titans / Xel'Naga created, and we have no choice but to work together since the orcs / zerg aren't really that evil and were just enslaved. Don't worry though, because Thrall / Kerrigan will free them and give us the hope we need.
Also, the connection between the Dark Voice and the Zerg is so very similar to the Burning Legion and the Scourge. The Scourge/Zerg turn out to be tools of the Burning Legion/Dark Voice to kill another race(s) before its arrival.
The mission Utter Darkness is a rip-off of the last mission of warcraft 3 as well, the Zerg fighting as subordinates along the Hybrids against the final stand of the Protoss to destroy all life in the galaxy, just like the Scourge fought as subordinates along the Burning Legion against the final stand of the Alliance to destroy all life in the world.
Something else, didn't Warcraft 3 start with a prophecy about the end-of-the-world and coming-of-big-bad just like WoL?
*note: your character descriptions are so spot-on
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Wow, whiners convention. 95% of these things can be explained in game, and some remain a mystery to be revealed in the next two games (as it should be).
For anyone that actually want to discuss things I again direct you to my post that you decided to ignore (probably because you got no real counter to it): http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=5970404
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sorry mate i didnt read your entire post couse im in work but i agree, i feel there so much of Activision :x
Missions were so simaliar and kind of boring.
I really enjoyed only Zeratuls part of game that was fun and cinematics awesome.
and that part with combinating Zergs and Protoss ? i hate that race as much as teranns :D
I can say i like it only becouse i like SC and gameplay, story was fine but nothing really new. lazy blizzard :D
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On August 04 2010 12:41 ghosthunter wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2010 12:19 buhhy wrote:On August 04 2010 12:04 Necrosjef wrote:
By the way, does someone wanna tell me who the dead guy in the blue armor named koltzier was? Koltzier was a Blizzard graphics artist who died during the production of SC2. So its a tribute to him.
http://www.sonsofthestorm.com/memorial_twincruiser.html
Not only sc2, the enigmatic Shrine of the fallen warrior is also a tribute of him.
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On August 11 2010 23:39 -Archangel- wrote:We know that Mengsk and Duran are working together.
This was never explain during WoL, nor even hinted at. In fact Duran never appeared at all, which I felt was disappointing as he should have played a larger role.
The only mission that contained anything like this would be the secret mission where there's a science facility with Zerg / Protoss hybrids and Matt comments that this is beyond Terran technology.
We know that Duran is working for the Dark Voice and that he is behind the Hybrids.
It was explained in the secret mission in Broodwars that he was making hybrids.
We also know that Hybrids need the Queen of Blades dead to rule the Zerg and defeat all the rest.
This could have been explained better by Zeratul, for example claiming that with Kerrigan dead the Hybrids were able to control the leaderless Zerg.
Won't turning her into a human have the same effect as killing her as she's no longer able to control the Zerg?
So Tycus reporting on Raynor's movements is not an issue. Once Hybrids get control of Zerg Terrans will be wiped out anyways. Only thing important is killing Kerrigan. That is why Tycus tries to talk to Raynor multiple times about killing her and in the end tries to do it himself. We are not sure how he was planning to celebrate his freedom after he killed her there as there was no way to come out of that alive.
If Tycus' only mission is to kill Kerrigan and he plans to use Raynor to do this then it would make sense that he doesn't want to stop Raynor.
If we assume that Tycus doesn't know that killing Kerrigan will allow the Hybrids to control the Zerg then he could believe that he'll live after killing Kerrigan. I wish Tycus had tried to convince Raynor by claiming that killing Kerrigan would weaken the Zerg and allow the Terrans to defeat them (whether he's misinformed or lying is largely irrelevent).
As for Raynor not doing something about Tycus before the last scene that is a bit strange but can be explained by him being a big softy (which he is :D) and waiting for signs of betrayal.
Makes sense.
As for Raynor boarding the Dominion fleet flagship, that was a stupid move but we know Valerian didn't really want him dead so they probably let him board.
Valerian could of hailed Raynor and talked to him. Lowing his shields, making Raynor fight to get to him, and the hoping Raynor wouldn't kill him or hold him hostage was just stupid.
Assault on Char is not that strange, they didn't come there to defeat the Zerg, and many of the Zerg forces are attacking the Terran planets. They also probably came as a surprise for Kerrigan and then in a bold move sabotaged a huge part of her swarm in that area. In the last mission we still see that they cannot survive, but only hold on for a while (until the artifact fully charges).
Also attacking Char would cause Kerrigan to withdraw her forces from Terran planets and bring them back to Char.
Mengsk being like that in the game is not much different then Mengsk after he comes into power in SC1 and in BW. He basically gives proclamations and does nothing of import (Raynor and Protoss does the most).
As for not getting to finish Mengsk off, well I guess we need Mengsk for the next two parts of the story.
The way Mengsk reacted to the audio tapes was just ridiculous. He could have claimed they were fake as Raynor had no evidence they were real and he had the media portray Raynor as a terrorist. Instead he threw a hissy fit.
Also Raynor forgets / omits that the Confederacy also used Psi emitters to lure Zerg to other planets before Mensk used them on Tarsonis.
[/QUOTE]For those wanting a really serious game those news casts kind of stand out. For me personally they were as funny as any good trash movie (I guess you need to know how to appreciate a good trash movie).
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The problem with the newscasts is why did Mensk allow them to keep criticising him and promote Raynor. Also why did they keep going live to Kate when she never said what the anchor and possibly the station wanted her to say? A good trash movie does not make good propaganda.
The ending with Kerrigan being saved is what is needed to stop what Overmind saw. If they killed her then the next two parts of the story would have been pointless.
True but if she's no longer a Zerg and can't control the Zerg she's as good as dead. I hope that in part 2 the Dark Voice reveals that having Raynor use the artefact to turn Kerrigan human was part of its plan to remove a threat.
The only question that stand is how is Valerian connected with Duran as we know Duran is pretending to be the head scientist of Moebius Foundation while Valerian is the owner/leader.
Again Duran didn't appear when it would of been relevant for him to. Also is Duran working for both Valerian's Moebius Foundation and Mensk's Dominion? If so why hasn't anyone noticed he's working for both of them?
One question what was Kerrigan doing between Broodwars and Wings of Liberty? It was mentioned she withdrew most of her forced to Char but didn't explain why, what she was doing, or why she started attacking the Terrans?
Personally I felt that the story left a lot to be desired. Most of the missions seemed designed to show you how to use each unit but because most were timed missions you rarely got to learn how to use these units as part of a group.
Also the story was too disjointed and the choices you made had limited effect on the game. You could either get ghost or spectres (only identical units), fight an air force or nydus worms in the last level, and what you did on Haven didn't affect anything.
I feel that the story would have been better paced in the following format:
1) The first part involves you taking mercenary contracts for money, attacking Dominion outposts for supplies and new units, and helping outlying planets rebel against the Dominion. This would be an introduction to WoL.
2) The second part occurs once you've gotten several outlying planets supporting you. You mainly look for artefact pieces (high paying mercenary contract), protecting your outlying planets from the Zerg attacks (the Dominion won't defend rebels), destroying bases on Dominion worlds to weaken Dominion and steal their technology, and learning about Zeratul's prophecy. The main purpose of this campaign is to build up the forces needed to challenge Mensk.
3) The last part occurs after you've gotten all the artefact pieces. Valerian offers you a lot of money to defeat Kerrigan on Char and more support to help defeat Mensk. Raynor decides to use his forces to attack Char instead of Mensk to protect outlying worlds from the Zerg, who are his main supporters (he can't protect them and fight the Dominion), and to save Kerrigan.
4) In the next game the Dark Voice reveal that using the artefact / killing Kerrigan was part of it's plan to take control of the Zerg.
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In my opinion, it was a very interesting ending.
If Kerrigan is normal now, who will control the zerg? Will she still be able to control them? If not, does this mean that the universe will get raped by the Xel'Naga? A cliché ending indeed, but we still have two more chapters, Heart of the Swarm and Legacy of the Void. Am I really the only one here who's wondering how in the hell they will stop the Xel'Naga without Kerrigan controlling the Zerg? Assuming she is not able to control them in her current state of course.
And also, will the UED return? What are the Protoss up to? Will the Overmind be revived again? Where the hell is Duran? There's a lot more unanswered questions...how can some of you even talk about this as if it's the end?
And about Raynor "suddenly" wanting to save Kerrigan instead of killing her as he said in BW after Fenix' death, he obviously didn't know she COULD be saved. That's where the artifact comes in. Valerian offered Raynor the chance to save her, and he accepted the offer because he still loves Kerrigan, and knows that Infested Kerrigan is not Sarah Kerrigan.
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On August 12 2010 22:03 Zexion wrote:
In my opinion, it was a very interesting ending.
If Kerrigan is normal now, who will control the zerg? Will she still be able to control them? If not, does this mean that the universe will get raped by the Xel'Naga? A cliché ending indeed, but we still have two more chapters, Heart of the Swarm and Legacy of the Void. Am I really the only one here who's wondering how in the hell they will stop the Xel'Naga without Kerrigan controlling the Zerg? Assuming she is not able to control them in her current state of course.
And also, will the UED return? What are the Protoss up to? Will the Overmind be revived again? Where the hell is Duran? How can some of you even talk about this as if it's the end?
And about Raynor "suddenly" wanting to save Kerrigan instead of killing her as he said in BW after Fenix' death, he obviously didn't know she COULD be saved. That's where the artifact comes in. Valerian offered Raynor the chance to save her, and he accepted the offer because he still loves Kerrigan, and knows that Infested Kerrigan is not Sarah Kerrigan.
We don't talk about it like it's the end, we talk about how bad the writing/execution is.
Oh, and Blizzard has confirmed that Kerrigan is the main character of HoS, controlling the Zerg, and you are going to be out expanding her powers in an RPG-like fashion.
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On August 04 2010 12:19 buhhy wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2010 12:04 Necrosjef wrote:
Agree with most of your points about the campaign storyline. But I'm going to be honest with you here. I'd rather Blizzard spent time and effort on making the MP better and just never made a campaign at all. I'd rather had blizzard throw out a killer single player than attempt to best BW in multiplayer and push for "esports". Anyways, I agree about the story... just finished the campaign and I feel there were alot of backstories, but not enough time to flesh them out. I also think the ending was kinda meh; the whole time, I was thinking: hey, they're gonna turn kerrigan back... wait nah, that'll be too obvious and too perfect. And then, it actually happened. By the way, does someone wanna tell me who the dead guy in the blue armor named koltzier was?
No way. Multiplayer balance>Single Player. But I think Blizzard deserves to give us both!
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Oh, and Blizzard has confirmed that Kerrigan is the main character of HoS, controlling the Zerg, and you are going to be out expanding her powers in an RPG-like fashion.
Honestly at this point I really hope that no longer applies. Having her deinfested so she can willingly be reinfested to lead a good Zerg swarm, is just incredibly lame. That's only my opinion of course but what I would like is to see the Zerg campaign as an Hybrid and take it over, it would be better then Kerrigan RPG on so many levels.
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On August 12 2010 21:27 uanime5 wrote:
This was never explain during WoL, nor even hinted at. In fact Duran never appeared at all, which I felt was disappointing as he should have played a larger role.
The only mission that contained anything like this would be the secret mission where there's a science facility with Zerg / Protoss hybrids and Matt comments that this is beyond Terran technology.
Duran did appear, but not as Duran. He was the Narud, the Moebius scientist that asks you for help in one of the missions. He does play a large role but not in the open as Raynor would not openly work with him. He uses Valerian and Tycus to get Raynor to collect the artifacts and in the end turn Kerrigan into a vulnerable human form.
The secret mission is all you need to put 1+1 together. It is pretty clear what is happening.
It was explained in the secret mission in Broodwars that he was making hybrids.
Exactly, that is how we know that he and Mengsk are working together.
This could have been explained better by Zeratul, for example claiming that with Kerrigan dead the Hybrids were able to control the leaderless Zerg.
Won't turning her into a human have the same effect as killing her as she's no longer able to control the Zerg?
Lol? This was as clear as it needed to be at the end of the 3rd protoss mission in the game. Really, did they need to put it in bold red letters for you?!
We do not know what is the exact effect of turning her into the human. This is one of those 5% of mysteries that I said were left for the next two games.
If Tycus' only mission is to kill Kerrigan and he plans to use Raynor to do this then it would make sense that he doesn't want to stop Raynor.
If we assume that Tycus doesn't know that killing Kerrigan will allow the Hybrids to control the Zerg then he could believe that he'll live after killing Kerrigan. I wish Tycus had tried to convince Raynor by claiming that killing Kerrigan would weaken the Zerg and allow the Terrans to defeat them (whether he's misinformed or lying is largely irrelevent).
Exactly. Killing kerrigan is the ultimate goal that he is there for, not to report Raynor's movements to Mengsk.
He cannot believe he will live after putting a bullet into a person Raynor loves in a cave where he is then alone vs Raynor and another 2-3 marines that came there together. Old friendship will only get you soo far, I do not think killing your friend's lover saves you...
Tycus did try to convince Raynor to kill Kerrigan on multiple occasions on the ship, maybe you didn't talk to him between all missions.
Valerian could of hailed Raynor and talked to him. Lowing his shields, making Raynor fight to get to him, and the hoping Raynor wouldn't kill him or hold him hostage was just stupid.
Hailing Raynor might not have had the same effect. Proposing what he proposed might not worked with half the bridge listening. If you remember after Raynor said they are going to Char to save Kerrigan almost half the crew mutinied. I am not sure Raynor would have been able to say YES over the comm.
Also letting Raynor kill his guards might have been a kind of a test. If Raynor could not get through his guards how would he get to Kerrigan?!
As for Valerian risking Raynor killing him, well he brought half the Dominion fleet for what is a suicide mission, risking playing on Raynors feelings for Sarah Kerrigan was normal :D
Valerian reminds me a lot of Mengsk before Mengsk started using tactics like Psi Emitters to use Zerg to slaughter whole planets.
Also attacking Char would cause Kerrigan to withdraw her forces from Terran planets and bring them back to Char.
Which is what happens. You can still listen to news between mission on Char and they say Zerg started retreating for some reason.
The way Mengsk reacted to the audio tapes was just ridiculous. He could have claimed they were fake as Raynor had no evidence they were real and he had the media portray Raynor as a terrorist. Instead he threw a hissy fit.
Also Raynor forgets / omits that the Confederacy also used Psi emitters to lure Zerg to other planets before Mensk used them on Tarsonis.
The audio was taken from the Adjutant. Maybe in that world those things cannot be faked. Even today there are systems to make sure that what is sent from one side is the original. So maybe this audio was packed in an official Confederacy adjutant encryption that cannot be faked. Only possible fake would have been adjutant faking the audio herself which is probably not part of her programming.
Why people jump to conclusions without taking 1 minute to think for themselves I cannot understand. Seriously people, not everything needs to be written out for you, I know Hollywood movies made you all SOFT and expecting things being served on a silver platter but sometimes you NEED to use your brains as well.
The problem with the newscasts is why did Mensk allow them to keep criticising him and promote Raynor. Also why did they keep going live to Kate when she never said what the anchor and possibly the station wanted her to say? A good trash movie does not make good propaganda.
The newscasts were supposed to be a light humor and that is all. They also reminded me a bit of the movie Starship Troopers and their news. Why is everyone so hang up on if a news reported lost her job or not. It really plays no part in the whole story. Maybe her parents are really rich and powerful and Mengsk does not want to make them his enemies?!
True but if she's no longer a Zerg and can't control the Zerg she's as good as dead. I hope that in part 2 the Dark Voice reveals that having Raynor use the artefact to turn Kerrigan human was part of its plan to remove a threat.
We do not know what she is now. That will be revealed in the next game.
Again Duran didn't appear when it would of been relevant for him to. Also is Duran working for both Valerian's Moebius Foundation and Mensk's Dominion? If so why hasn't anyone noticed he's working for both of them?
I answered you about Duran in the beginning. I think they are more likely working for Duran (knowingly or not).
One question what was Kerrigan doing between Broodwars and Wings of Liberty? It was mentioned she withdrew most of her forced to Char but didn't explain why, what she was doing, or why she started attacking the Terrans?
It was explained. She was looking for answers about Xel'Naga same as Zeratur and prepairing for what is coming. The 3 Zeratur missions are memories of the time within those 4 years.
She attacked the Terrans as a diversion, she was after the same artifacts as Raynor and Mengsk.
Personally I felt that the story left a lot to be desired. Most of the missions seemed designed to show you how to use each unit but because most were timed missions you rarely got to learn how to use these units as part of a group.
Missions were designed to be different from standard RTS and to prepare you for MP which is fast and does not stand for turtling.
Also the story was too disjointed and the choices you made had limited effect on the game. You could either get ghost or spectres (only identical units), fight an air force or nydus worms in the last level, and what you did on Haven didn't affect anything.
Which is more choice then any other RTS out there or even games like Mass Effect 2.
I really do not understand what you people were expecting from this game?! Please tell me one RTS that gave more meaningful choice then SC2 or that had a better story then SC2 (SC1 does not count :D).
I feel that the story would have been better paced in the following format:
1) The first part involves you taking mercenary contracts for money, attacking Dominion outposts for supplies and new units, and helping outlying planets rebel against the Dominion. This would be an introduction to WoL.
2) The second part occurs once you've gotten several outlying planets supporting you. You mainly look for artefact pieces (high paying mercenary contract), protecting your outlying planets from the Zerg attacks (the Dominion won't defend rebels), destroying bases on Dominion worlds to weaken Dominion and steal their technology, and learning about Zeratul's prophecy. The main purpose of this campaign is to build up the forces needed to challenge Mensk.
3) The last part occurs after you've gotten all the artefact pieces. Valerian offers you a lot of money to defeat Kerrigan on Char and more support to help defeat Mensk. Raynor decides to use his forces to attack Char instead of Mensk to protect outlying worlds from the Zerg, who are his main supporters (he can't protect them and fight the Dominion), and to save Kerrigan.
4) In the next game the Dark Voice reveal that using the artefact / killing Kerrigan was part of it's plan to take control of the Zerg.
I am certain Blizzard will discover your talent very soon and give you job as their story writter 
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Great OP
Summarize all what i felt about the single player campaign also. Its not bad, but the story itself felt childish and amateur.
Raynor is a question mark, in SC1 he had much more personality and seemed a real person. Now its like they tried to turn him into a hollywood star of SC1 (hell, whe he was bald it was wayy cooler), with one line effect dialogues.
The face expressions are not that good also, its like we get the same face when hes angry and when hes happy.
The good thing for me was the ending, it surprized me and make me want to see wich direction HoS will follow.
Camon Blizzard, you can do a much, much better storyline. You have the money and can pay the best ppl to do this job. Dont make us think the storyline decisions are made by ppl that dont are expert in making stories.
On August 12 2010 11:51 Spawkuring wrote:
The Burning Legion Hybrids led by Sargeras the Dark Voice are coming to unmake everything the Titans Xel'Naga created, and we have no choice but to work together since the orcs zerg aren't really that evil and were just enslaved. Don't worry though, because Thrall Kerrigan will free them and give us the hope we need.
The potential of SC2's storytelling is great, but they didn't pull it off well at all. SC1 and WC3 may be primitive, but Blizzard did an excellent job of working with what they had. The BW intro still trounces over any WoL cinematic, and the Overmind's opening speech alone beats out anything Kerrigan said in WoL.
In addition, I also don't take kindly to how all the characters got retconned or derailed in SC2:
SC1 Raynor: Infuriated by Kerrigan's murderous spree and swearing to kill her over Fenix's death.
SC2 Raynor: Lovesick drunk who only cares to save Kerrigan and completely forgets about Fenix.
SC1 Kerrigan: Sinister villain who relies heavily on cunning and manipulation rather than brute strength.
SC2 Kerrigan: Generic villain who relies on brute strength, and has absolutely no role other than being a walking plot device.
SC1 Zeratul: Warrior poet with a sophisticated yet still down-to-earth manner of speaking who maintains a powerful aura of mystery, intelligence, and power.
SC2 Zeratul: Wispy old man who slooooooooowly speaks in pointless riddles, horribly cliched dialogue over prophecies and hope, and constantly speaks to himself over the most obvious things which make him sound senile. (I mean I know it's for tutorial's sake, but christ Blizzard, there IS a way to give a tutorial while still maintaining a character's personality)
SC1 Mengsk: Honorable man who gradually becomes a power-hungry dictator, but still extremely charismatic with a strong prescence.
SC2 Mengsk: Nothing. Has so little role in the story he might as well not exist. Just take every mention of "Mengsk" and replace it with "evil bad guy" and you pretty much keep everything intact.
Agreed with everything you said too. Gee, the person in charge of SC1 story is different than the person of SC2?
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@danieldrsa: I have tried my best to explain all the "plot whole" that people endlessly QQ about.
It is all logical if you take a minute to think about it and inform yourself about the background for all this. You can read Starcraft novels or read wiki sources.
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On August 13 2010 01:39 -Archangel- wrote:Duran did appear, but not as Duran. He was the Narud, the Moebius scientist that asks you for help in one of the missions. He does play a large role but not in the open as Raynor would not openly work with him. He uses Valerian and Tycus to get Raynor to collect the artifacts and in the end turn Kerrigan into a vulnerable human form.
Duran appears in one mission looking very different from Brood Wars so it's understandable that I missed him. Did he possess another person's body?
The secret mission is all you need to put 1+1 together. It is pretty clear what is happening.
Nothing was explained in the secret mission, other than Mensk has a research lab with Zerg, Protoss, and Hybrids.
Would you care to elaborate on what this mission explains.
Show nested quote +
It was explained in the secret mission in Broodwars that he was making hybrids.
Exactly, that is how we know that he and Mengsk are working together.
In SC1 the Confederacy had a lab experimenting with Zergs but that didn't mean they were working with the Zergs or breeding them. Given that Duran was breeding Hybrids whereas Mensk was trying to clone them it's possible that Mensk is either working with someone else, or Mensk found some of Duran's technology and experiments and is trying to figure out how to use them.
Show nested quote +
This could have been explained better by Zeratul, for example claiming that with Kerrigan dead the Hybrids were able to control the leaderless Zerg.
Lol? This was as clear as it needed to be at the end of the 3rd protoss mission in the game. Really, did they need to put it in bold red letters for you?!
Subtitles would have helped. It's hard to understand what the Protoss are saying. The lack of detail makes it hard to understand as both the Hybrid and the Protoss say Kerrigan is important but they don't elaborate on why she's important. Are the Hybrids supposed to be more aggressive or effective leaders of Zerg?
Tycus did try to convince Raynor to kill Kerrigan on multiple occasions on the ship, maybe you didn't talk to him between all missions.
I did talk to Tycus but he doesn't offer any real justification for killing Kerrigan, when there were plenty of things he could have said.
Which is what happens. You can still listen to news between mission on Char and they say Zerg started retreating for some reason.
For me that broadcast occurred before I went to Char. I think it was after I stopped Kerrigan getting to the buildings. Kate said the Zerg were retreating so they'd either got what they wanted or had given up. On Char the news broadcast said the male anchor had been committed to an asylum after being found naked in a zoo with some peanut butter and Mensk's autobiography.
The audio was taken from the Adjutant. Maybe in that world those things cannot be faked. Even today there are systems to make sure that what is sent from one side is the original. So maybe this audio was packed in an official Confederacy adjutant encryption that cannot be faked. Only possible fake would have been adjutant faking the audio herself which is probably not part of her programming.
Raynor broadcast what the Adjutant said on Dominion broadcasts, so the Adjutant was nothing more than a giant tape recorder and any encryptions would be useless. Mensk could have easily have claimed that it was fake.
Even if they uploaded the whole Adjutant somehow Mensk could have claimed that it had been tampered with.
Even if they uploaded the whole Adjutant and it was impossible to tamper with it Mensk could have claimed that it was made by someone pretending to be him.
Why people jump to conclusions without taking 1 minute to think for themselves I cannot understand. Seriously people, not everything needs to be written out for you, I know Hollywood movies made you all SOFT and expecting things being served on a silver platter but sometimes you NEED to use your brains as well.
Sounds like someone is whining because I pointed out a major plot hole and you don't know how to dismiss it.
If something is unclear it's the writer's fault for not explaining it clearly, not the person's fault for not understanding it. A good story explains the plot to the viewer, rather than forces them to write in the missing parts. It's also the writer's fault for making poor plots, plot holes, and having people act out of character for the sake of the story.
Also what Raynor did to Mensk is a classic example of how Hollywood quickly wraps things up by convicting the villain with minimal evidence.
The newscasts were supposed to be a light humor and that is all. They also reminded me a bit of the movie Starship Troopers and their news. Why is everyone so hang up on if a news reported lost her job or not. It really plays no part in the whole story. Maybe her parents are really rich and powerful and Mengsk does not want to make them his enemies?!
Light humour doesn't work when it seems contrary to what the game is trying to tell you. Mensk is supposed to be using propaganda against Raynor to discredit him but the new reports directly and repeatedly contradict this. A "children's cartoon" or satirical show that provided humour while clearly undermining Mensk would have been far better.
Show nested quote +
Also the story was too disjointed and the choices you made had limited effect on the game. You could either get ghost or spectres (only identical units), fight an air force or nydus worms in the last level, and what you did on Haven didn't affect anything.
Which is more choice then any other RTS out there or even games like Mass Effect 2. I really do not understand what you people were expecting from this game?! Please tell me one RTS that gave more meaningful choice then SC2 or that had a better story then SC2 (SC1 does not count :D).
A meaningless choice is the same as having no choice. The only choice that made any real difference was which part of the Zerg army to cripple (which itself was similar to a UED mission against the Dominion).
Spellforce had much more meaningful choices as you could choose what abilities and equipment your heroes had.
Though RTS are generally so linear that they have no meaningful choices.
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It is nice to see people finding these "plot holes" because of the endless discussions. I think Archangel has explained everything very well. Most of it, if not all, makes sense to me.
I have a feeling that HotS will make us all go "WTF just happened?!" 
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On August 13 2010 03:18 uanime5 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2010 01:39 -Archangel- wrote:Duran did appear, but not as Duran. He was the Narud, the Moebius scientist that asks you for help in one of the missions. He does play a large role but not in the open as Raynor would not openly work with him. He uses Valerian and Tycus to get Raynor to collect the artifacts and in the end turn Kerrigan into a vulnerable human form. Duran appears in one mission looking very different from Brood Wars so it's understandable that I missed him. Did he possess another person's body?
Since in the meantime I informed myself better about the nature of Duran, I would say, yes the Dark Voice decided to use another vessel for his goals and Blizzard decided to call that character Narud to give us the players a clue. What happened to body of one called Duran is probably unimportant.
On August 13 2010 03:18 uanime5 wrote:Show nested quote +The secret mission is all you need to put 1+1 together. It is pretty clear what is happening. Nothing was explained in the secret mission, other than Mensk has a research lab with Zerg, Protoss, and Hybrids. Would you care to elaborate on what this mission explains.
That is enough. We only know of Duran being the one to experiment with trying to create Hybrids so this is obviously connected. Duran needed to get resources and materials for this, and Mengsk is not above doing stuff like this to further his goals.
On August 13 2010 03:18 uanime5 wrote:Show nested quote +
It was explained in the secret mission in Broodwars that he was making hybrids.
Exactly, that is how we know that he and Mengsk are working together. In SC1 the Confederacy had a lab experimenting with Zergs but that didn't mean they were working with the Zergs or breeding them. Given that Duran was breeding Hybrids whereas Mensk was trying to clone them it's possible that Mensk is either working with someone else, or Mensk found some of Duran's technology and experiments and is trying to figure out how to use them.
There is a big difference between Zergs and Hybrids. That lab in Sc1 was supposed to show us that Confederacy knew about the existence of Zerg before they invaded Sara system.
Duran was breeding hybrids? Duran was trying to combine Zerg and Protoss DNA into one creature. I am sure cloning is a faster process once successful then breeding. Or they can replicate themselves once successful.
On August 13 2010 03:18 uanime5 wrote:Show nested quote +Lol? This was as clear as it needed to be at the end of the 3rd protoss mission in the game. Really, did they need to put it in bold red letters for you?!
This could have been explained better by Zeratul, for example claiming that with Kerrigan dead the Hybrids were able to control the leaderless Zerg. Subtitles would have helped. It's hard to understand what the Protoss are saying. The lack of detail makes it hard to understand as both the Hybrid and the Protoss say Kerrigan is important but they don't elaborate on why she's important. Are the Hybrids supposed to be more aggressive or effective leaders of Zerg?
I am not a native english speaker and I understood it well enough. Even too well because until this game I thought this Dark Voice was actually trying to complete the Xel'Naga cycle (like the sole Reaper left in the galaxy in Mass Effect to open the doorway for other Reapers), not stop it so I was confused for a while.
Kerrigan is important because unlike Overmind she has a free will and is not consumed by a need to destroy Protoss (and stop the cycle by doing so) while also being able to control all Zerg as the Overmind did.
On August 13 2010 03:18 uanime5 wrote:Show nested quote +Tycus did try to convince Raynor to kill Kerrigan on multiple occasions on the ship, maybe you didn't talk to him between all missions. I did talk to Tycus but he doesn't offer any real justification for killing Kerrigan, when there were plenty of things he could have said.
Nobody said he was good at it
But he did try.
On August 13 2010 03:18 uanime5 wrote:Show nested quote +Which is what happens. You can still listen to news between mission on Char and they say Zerg started retreating for some reason. For me that broadcast occurred before I went to Char. I think it was after I stopped Kerrigan getting to the buildings. Kate said the Zerg were retreating so they'd either got what they wanted or had given up. On Char the news broadcast said the male anchor had been committed to an asylum after being found naked in a zoo with some peanut butter and Mensk's autobiography.
I might have made a mistake on that. I thought it played after you came to Char but even if it was just before it still does not mean the forces came back in time. Still it also means nothing as it is clear Terrans can only win if they live long enough to charge the artifact and use it. All the QQ about how they are able to attack the planet are just that (QQ).
On August 13 2010 03:18 uanime5 wrote:Show nested quote +The audio was taken from the Adjutant. Maybe in that world those things cannot be faked. Even today there are systems to make sure that what is sent from one side is the original. So maybe this audio was packed in an official Confederacy adjutant encryption that cannot be faked. Only possible fake would have been adjutant faking the audio herself which is probably not part of her programming. Raynor broadcast what the Adjutant said on Dominion broadcasts, so the Adjutant was nothing more than a giant tape recorder and any encryptions would be useless. Mensk could have easily have claimed that it was fake. Even if they uploaded the whole Adjutant somehow Mensk could have claimed that it had been tampered with. Even if they uploaded the whole Adjutant and it was impossible to tamper with it Mensk could have claimed that it was made by someone pretending to be him.
We do not know what they sent exactly. But since it provoked the people to open rebellion (which was probably already brewing since Mengsk was not that loved) it must have been something more then an easily faked audio. If the audio was encrypted (adjutant is a military technology) and I am sure it was somehow it would also have a timestamp and info on its locations. It is really hard to fake that. All 3 of your suggestion fall into the water.
And maybe afterwards he did claim those things, just not at that moment. All people can snap if put into the right circumstances and I guess those were Mengsk's.
On August 13 2010 03:18 uanime5 wrote:Show nested quote +Why people jump to conclusions without taking 1 minute to think for themselves I cannot understand. Seriously people, not everything needs to be written out for you, I know Hollywood movies made you all SOFT and expecting things being served on a silver platter but sometimes you NEED to use your brains as well. Sounds like someone is whining because I pointed out a major plot hole and you don't know how to dismiss it. If something is unclear it's the writer's fault for not explaining it clearly, not the person's fault for not understanding it. A good story explains the plot to the viewer, rather than forces them to write in the missing parts. It's also the writer's fault for making poor plots, plot holes, and having people act out of character for the sake of the story. Also what Raynor did to Mensk is a classic example of how Hollywood quickly wraps things up by convicting the villain with minimal evidence.
Please share with me this "plot hole" because I will easily plug it just like I plugged all the rest.
Maybe you would like to share this theory of yours about writers fault with lets says George R.R. Martin because his stories are full of events and details that you need to figure out yourself (or by discussing with others) or for instance the more latter example would be movie Inception that is certainly not going to answer all the questions for you.
What did they exactly convict Mengsk of? Stop talking in riddles (and I do not read minds).
On August 13 2010 03:18 uanime5 wrote:Show nested quote +The newscasts were supposed to be a light humor and that is all. They also reminded me a bit of the movie Starship Troopers and their news. Why is everyone so hang up on if a news reported lost her job or not. It really plays no part in the whole story. Maybe her parents are really rich and powerful and Mengsk does not want to make them his enemies?! Light humour doesn't work when it seems contrary to what the game is trying to tell you. Mensk is supposed to be using propaganda against Raynor to discredit him but the new reports directly and repeatedly contradict this. A "children's cartoon" or satirical show that provided humour while clearly undermining Mensk would have been far better.
The game is full of light humor. From "We are taking terrible... terrible damage" to "It is dead Jim" and the descriptions of units in the Armory and many other situations. The newscasts are just more obvious ones. Personally it didn't bother me, and I am not sure how many people it really did bother. Vocal QQs are usually the minority.
Show nested quote +
Which is more choice then any other RTS out there or even games like Mass Effect 2.
I really do not understand what you people were expecting from this game?! Please tell me one RTS that gave more meaningful choice then SC2 or that had a better story then SC2 (SC1 does not count :D).
Also the story was too disjointed and the choices you made had limited effect on the game. You could either get ghost or spectres (only identical units), fight an air force or nydus worms in the last level, and what you did on Haven didn't affect anything. A meaningless choice is the same as having no choice. The only choice that made any real difference was which part of the Zerg army to cripple (which itself was similar to a UED mission against the Dominion). Spellforce had much more meaningful choices as you could choose what abilities and equipment your heroes had. Though RTS are generally so linear that they have no meaningful choices.
You choices in those few missions affect not only units but what happens to those characters. Does Tosh die or not? Does doctor survive or not? And what you fight in the last mission.
Maybe YOU didn't care about these characters but I did.
Spellforce was more an RPG then RTS. But collecting experience and items in that game was not different then deciding what unit upgrades you wanted and what you wanted to research through getting Zerg and Toss points, it was just presented in a different way.
I do not remember Spellforce actually having branching storylines, not even the level of SC2.
And I agree with your last sentence, people cannot really expect the same kind of story from RTS that gave them games like Baldur's Gate 2 or Dragon Age or The Witcher. Before Starcraft 1 any story that was more then a filler for killing AI in the missions was unheard of.
Starcraft 2 continued that and brought us more realistic NPCs whose fate we could directly decide. I call that better and progress.
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DISSAPOINT TOO!!!
I mean Raynor was no longer bald... That... what are you thinking!!
ANd a drunk...
Dissapoint...
So plastic feeling, everything, so plastic feeling.
SC1 felt real.
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EPT
