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This started out as a post in the " Beef with Storyline-The Blizzard Writing Formula" thread, but kinda grew until it had a life of its own as I wrote it. Because of the thread for which it was originally written I begin by outlining the problems I have with it and my complaints.
The Trident of Doom, three spiky problems:
Plot, Storytelling, Writing
Allow me to begin by stating simply what I mean by these three terms. The plot is what happens, if asked to tell someone what happens in the Starcraft: Wings of Liberty then you'd sum up the major plot points for them. The storytelling is the way in which these major plot points are used and structured; it's all about pace and tension. Good storytelling can certainly make a standard 'cliché' plot good. The writing I'm talking about here are the actual lines which are spoken by the characters the writing has an affect on both the plot and the storytelling and the three tend to work in synergy with one another. That is to say you can start off with a fairly typical basic plot but with good writing and good storytelling elevate that into something far beyond the basic archetype from which it originated. Unfortunately likewise they can bring one another down too.
I definitely agree with the general sentiment that I've read in this forum. The plot, the storytelling and the writing were all horrible. Which is really terrible because the actual levels were really good (compared with the original SC and BW where the levels were mostly really generic but the writing and storytelling were both top notch). It's really sad that in terms of gameplay Blizzard have produced a really top notch entertaining game with loads of really fun levels and such and then given it this script, this plot and told it in this way.
It's the same old tired story that Blizzard's been rolling out for years. I don't mind an unoriginal plot. Loads of great movies, books and indeed games too have started out with some really unoriginal plot, unfortunately what mate them great was their storytelling and writing. Unfortunately problem one for Blizzard really starts here, the writing here inflicts terrible, terrible damage! on to my psyche. It's really just horribly cringe-worthy most of the time. On occasion it does stray into the "so bad it's good" zone but I doubt that's intentional. Almost every single line sounds like it's from some horrible made-for-tv movie. There are signs that Blizzard do employ one or two decent writers who were actually trying and a few scenes did engage me and really shine out amidst the cringeyness, but mostly I was either laughing or wincing at the absurdity of it. I'm pretty sure that when they have Jimmy saying these supposed-to-be-stirring lines they want people to be moved and going "Oh hell yeah!" not giggling because ohmygod that was so awful.
Spoiler warning ahead if you didn't realise there would be spoilers then here's the warning, turn back now or face spoilers:
In Utter Darkness for me was the really only major thing that really engaged me in any real way, which is kind sad because it was also the mission that annoyed me the most in terms of writing. I'm a real sucker for last desperate stands. The bad guy there is just awful on levels that transcend the 10 and even 11 point scales, I mean incredibly terrible, un-original, garbage and I will get to him later, but all the protoss heroes getting ready for a last stand, ready to go down screaming defiance to the last and all that stuff really does it for me. The storytelling her at the start is good, we get the camera panning accross as Zeratul gives his "we're all going to die, but lets give them a fight" speech, and you get to see all the Zealots waving their hands in the air. You can practically hear them screaming "Entaro Tassadar" along with him - that's what I'm talking about! No need for any cheesy inspirational bullshit there, oh hell no. Here someone realised that you don't need any of that. that you can show instead of tell, we get to be there in the battle with the protoss fighting to the last man and ultimately losing. We actually get to be there, commanding the troops, trying not to die, trying to kill as many enemies as possible but finally falling as each of our heroes die. This is good, this is engaging, this puts you right there in the action, in the moment. But then the horrible writers show up again, launch into masses of pointless exposition as we have the bad guy spending the whole time going "muhahaha if only you could look into the future and see me telling you that you shouldn't kill Kerrigan, then I'd be really screwed, but it's lucky you can't so let me taunt you by telling you all this" along with several of the Protoss heroes death speeches being "Oh if only we knew" which gets kinda tired after the first one, this especially all the evil speeches increased the difficulty factor for this mission for me because I spent half my time with my head in my hands double face palming at the awfulness of it.
Most of all I hate this bad guy if you can even call him that frankly it doesn't even qualify to be called a character: they have scraped the bottom of the barrel and come up with a being even less compelling than Sauron, who yes wants to DESTROY THE UNIVERSE. Omnicidal, formless, motivationless, and entirely unengaging in every single way possible. This being can't even function in any way as a character, lacking even enough qualities to be considered two-dimensional (which most of the rest of the cast is, sad considering that they could all have been really well rounded three dimensional characters with good writing 'cause the voice actors were clearly trying their best to work with what they were given). All this 'dark voice' is is a one dimensional plot device. He's wearing a black hat, he's painted black, he sits in darkness with his glowy evil red eyes. His opening line may as well be "hello everyone I'm objectively evil, since you're all far more realistic shades of grey, even though you hate each other, you also kinda like this universe because this is where you keep all your stuff so feel free to unite against me". And let's face it now that is what will happen.
The 'bad' protoss were almost as bad. They were arbitrarily flagged as 'crazy zealots, not like those normal protoss who we're friends with' to make it ok to fight them, so we could have some missions vs toss. They have no real anything to characterise them other then "in the way of our missions" and "we hate you Jim Raynor, we will keep getting in your way and even step into some side missions because previously there was no real reason to fight the protoss at all in any but one level of this game and we need a decent number of vs toss missions".
A very long tangent in which I predict what will happen in future games, kinda only a little related to the main thread of this topic but yea:
+ Show Spoiler +Here are a few predictions of what will happen, based on my knowledge of Blizzard's default plot and how they like to tell it as well as the things we've seen in Wings of Liberty. I think these things are pretty predictable, a couple are longish shots but I'd certainly bet on at least a few of the more obvious ones being dead certs to occur. Some of them will happen because Blizzard will be attempting a " Crowning moment of Awesome" which can and if they don't whip their writers into shape will be just as cringe-worthy as their attempts at it in this game. Others will happen because they think this sort of stuff is cool or because this is the sort of thing Blizzard put into all their plots. In no particular order: -Everyone will have to band together to stop the I SPEAK IN CAPSLOCK BIG BAD DESTROYER THE OF UNIVERSE(tm). Blizzard love this. And it's been clearly telegraphed way ahead of time that we will end up fighting with all three races to save the world tree from the burning legion... I mean universe from the Hybrids. -Acturus will probably backstab because it's in his nature. They will want to make out like it's a totally incredible plot twist, but it'll probably also be glaringly obvious to everyone playing the game and indeed to any character inside the game with a brain-stem except the characters involved will have absolutely no idea it's coming for some reason. Also it'll be extra obvious (and we'll be told later on several times just to hammer home the point in case we fell asleep or skipped all the cut-scenes) that he's being manipulated by the bad guy to do his backstab. -Kerrigan will die a hero. She has to die, or possibly ascend to some higher plane of existence or whatever. Either way she doesn't end up with Jimmy 'cause Blizzard are going to want to attempt to make a crowning moment of awesome, or at least something really cool and heroic that they can use to tug heart strings. Also because they will be trying to make the ending seem bittersweet, inject some emotion and all that by denying the happy ending. I don't thin it's possible to go too wrong with this ending if they have anyone half-way decent on their writing staff and let that person script and write this bit. -Raynor will go drink himself under a table after, with Kerrigan dead and the dominion still in the hands of a Mensk (probably Valerian who will have his daddy killed at some point, since he seems like a sterling young lad). Raynor has to finish Starcraft 2 exactly where he begins it. Drinking himself into a stupor in some scummy little bar. It's another decent ending that I think wouldn't be too easy to screw up the emotional impact of. Valerian usurping his dad also seems like a no-brainer. If they decide to continue along the vein of Valerian being a good guy then Matt will probably get his happy ending and Jimmy gets offered a position in his military or cabinet or whatever but turns it down to go be drunk and depressed. -Finally, the BIG BAD DESTROYER OF THE UNIVERSE(tm) will be " [defeated but not destroyed, dum dum dum because Bliz can't do any better than a faceless, formless, omnicidal maniac to drive a plot these days and if they keep him around they can bring him back later. -And at the end if we score 100% and complete the game in under 6 hours blizzard will show us naked Selendis because by then the only thing they'll have left to keep people interested will be a blatant fanservice. And us nerds love naked aliens right? Or maybe Kerrigan, Selendis and Nova Can-Can dancing or something similarly ridiculous. Who knows but whatever it is it'll be uncanny-valley disturbing taken to the next level. Also there will be a secret level. You will control Duran and go around doing something random while your master exposits about how this is only a set back and leading into a still greater plan so don't worry, we can still end the universe next time and charge another few hundred bucks for Starcraft 3:Quadrilogy :bored: These events will also take place over four games rather than three as we've been told so far. This story will take four games to tell, in my opinion for a few reasons. I certainly wouldn't at this point insinuate at all that Blizzard are trying to make the games any longer deliberately, but like many series in the epic fantasy genre these 'epic' stories tend to grow ever longer than planned. There has been a lot of filler and not a lot of story telling so far. Major plot advancement sections have mostly been crammed into 3-5 missions and a cutscene or two; mostly a few of the Zeratul missions and their cutscenes really. Aside from the massive amounts of exposition in these missions and cutscenes there really isn't much plot advancement. Then there's the last mission and that's about it. Blizzard still have huge amounts of ground to cover before whatever epic final showdown they want to do with the big bad, along with hopefully some politics and infighting. That's a lot of ground to cover given how much filler is apparently needed to pack out the few plot heavy missions in Wings of Liberty. By the time they get to Legacy of the Void they will realise they have "too much content for one game" and split it into a full length (eg a few important missions +filler as with WoL) Protoss campaign for LotV and another game for the endgame kinda thing.
Storytelling
This is really what this thread is about. The easiest thing to change is the storytelling because well, I may be critical of the script-writers but I don't claim to have the time or talent to go through and re-write the game's entire script. Nor do I want to re-write the plot. It's a bit meh, a bit cheesy, the bad guy is totally uncompelling. All complaints that I have made and I believe to be justified.
So instead of re-writing the whole thing I'm going to just tighten the game's storytelling up. I think the main reason that the storytelling is so weak is because the "give people a choice" gimmick is used very badly and because of it everything else suffers immensely. Because they didn't want to have multiple endings or any of that, in all the cut-scenes people act like none of the side missions took place. And unfortunately that is all they really are. Instead of compelling choices that create a real effect on your gameplay they are unnecessary side-quests that are ignored in the scheme of things.
The whole Zeratul quest-line (which is where most of the backstory exposition is crammed into and is so the most important series of levels and cutscenes from a plot perspective) is totally ignored in the 'main game', as people have mentioned you have Matt in one cutscene (who Jim tells everything about Zeratul's prophecy to) arguing against Jim's decision to go to Char to free her when he knows that you need to to save the universe. In fact the whole tension there feels super contrived. The events of Piercing the Shroud are never really mentioned if you did it. Media Blitz seems to have had no effect on Mensk at all when you read the post-game completed text that appears on battle.net and in the cut scene during the Char invasion.
Furthermore the whole thing where you can pick what to do at any time totally diffuses any tension. Storytelling is all about managing tension and this totally ruins any chance of there being any. Worse still none of the choices you make have any real terms effects on anything. If they want to do the choices thing then they need to do it ALOT better. Choices have to matter and they need to pin down their storyline a bit. Some missions need to be not just mandatory (eg. you need to do all Tychus' missions) but mandatory NOW injecting some actual urgency. Same for side missions. These things have to engage with the plot and make a difference; you don't need multiple endings necessarily, but multiple ways to get to that end. In WoL it doesn't matter what you do, any mission that isn't for Tychus is just random filler till the next one and has no impact whatsoever. If you don't chose to to rescue Ariel right away then her planet should be overrun with the zerg and that could maybe open up another mission chain instead, ditto if you don't help Tosh soon enough maybe Nova catches up with him, whacks him and then that leads into something else, or maybe just doesn't.
Allow me to give an example. Here's a picture of the mission flow from the SC2 game guide which was graciously posted on Starcraft.incgamers by Kuangtu:
+ Show Spoiler +Original: ![[image loading]](http://i683.photobucket.com/albums/vv199/kuangtuscw/sc2%20limited%20guide/014.jpg)
As you can see you can pretty much do anything at any time and no side lines ever link back into your main missions. This is boring. You get to do everything and that's nice but nothing flows together, it all feels like random missions. You can bounce from mission to mission totally out of sequence or in any real order. It's just really loose and really slack. There's absolutely no dramatic tension and no urgency with anything. Nothing really builds up to anything else.
What I'm gonna do is take the exact same missions but shuffle them a bit and mess around with the order and options slightly. The missions and dialogue will be mostly the same, the plot will be mostly the same. All I'm really doing is telling the story in a different way so that everything flows better and kinda makes more sense too to be honest (some missions are really nonsensical if you do them really out of order or super late or whatever). I also aim to generate and use some dramatic tension and generally just make the whole thing feel less like an assortment of random missions and more like a campaign that is actually building up to something:
+ Show Spoiler +![[image loading]](http://i724.photobucket.com/albums/ww250/The-Poobah/SCWOLMissionFlow2.jpg?t=1280774585) I did do about 1/3 of this in excel and then realised that I was getting overly obsessive about the presentation and formating of it and that it had taken me 2 hours to do something I could have drawn in about 10 minutes. So I found a pencil and drew it. But the excel version was looking incredibly awesome. Maybe I'll finish it if I have another few hours to wrestle with that program.
As you can see I divided the game into phases. Phase 1 is the default Mar Sara phase. Any big horizontal lines indicate a no going back phase-change point. The circled missions are available any time in the phase that they are present in (and in the case of piercing the shroud and the final Tosh/Nova mission in either phase 3 or 4). You need to complete the main missions down the centre line + one side in order to progress and you can only pick one side eg. you pick Matt's missions to dig up some dirt on Arcturus Mengsk and follow that through, or you do Ariel's missions helping her colonists.
I felt this was a compelling choice and a good dichotomy too: either you're the good guy who goes to help people in need or you're throwing them away to up dirt on Arcturus Mengsk for your vengeance to help bring down his dominion. Both are time limited - only one time window to hit the trains and you need to rescue Ariel's colony before it's overrun. I kinda felt Tosh's missions were the least involved with the rest so I kinda put them to one side, although with a stipulation that you have to to his first mission in Phase Two if you want access to him and the rest of his missions or he'll decide you aren't interested and bugger off. I did this really just to kinda keep things more structured. I don't really want a whole brand new sub-plot being started by the player, say, right before they go to Char. That'd really ruin everything I'd been trying to do with this re-structuring.
Phase 2 is the "Looting Artifacts amidst the Zerg Invasion" phase and ends when the zerg hit the planet on which Mobius is based. Which will be when you've completed 2 branches (you have the option to do Tosh's first mission at any time in this phase, up to the point where you complete "The Möbius Factor").
And yes I'm aware that on that piece of paper I misspelled Mobius.
Phase 3 is where the plot starts to roll. Zeratul shows up and you begin to find out more backstory behind the invasion. At the same time you finish off whichever branch you picked and zero in on kicking the revolution up a notch by revealing that Arcturus is a scumbag
I moved Zeratul to showing up after The Mobius factor instead of after The Dig, and made his missions mandatory - my thoughts have changed a little since I drew that picture. Now I'd have the first two in phase 3, allow you to complete the second Tosh mission in Phase 4 if you want, and have Supernova be forced on you as soon as you've completed 2 zeratul missions and Media Blitz (at which point you would learn a) that an important artifact has been discovered on Typhon and b) that Typhon's sun is going to go supernova very soon, so you gotta go get it. Since the Zeratul missions are now compulsory you could acknowledge that they actually happened in the main mission flow, cinematics, etc.
I also moved Media Blitz into the middle, because I felt that a)the Matt side had more missions than the Ariel side and b)causing unrest against Arcturus by showing him for what he really is is a key part of the story and Raynor's Rebellion. This would mean minor alterations to The Evacuation and Outbreak in which you find some evidence that good ol' Arcturus directly ordered the millions of people in the outer worlds to be left to the zerg and to infestation.
This would also mean changing Media Blitz a bit which would be the only major change to either dialogue or missions in the game.
Media Blitz would be the same if you came from Matt's side but if you came from Ariel's side you would have something different depending on which way you went with that, if you saved them you get a load of colonists attacking and inciting rioting etc. as your diversion and causing chaos (which would function as the same as the time period in which you control the Odin in the other version eg. Dominion bases not attacking you directly unless you attack them like when you control the Odin) in this version you'd control a massive amount of angry colonists with molotovs and guns (basically toned down reapers without jetpacks and a different skin) for the same period of time as you'd get to run amok with the Odin, which would be present and hostile, and be deployed against your massive mob of colonists. Your colonists and it would wipe each other out in a brutal televised massacre in a lil' cutscene as you transition from the surprise attack bit of the mission to the control your base take over the towers mission. If you decided to wipe the infested colonists out then you get Selendis' Protoss fleet helping you for the limited time, they'd wipe the floor with the Odin and then be controllable by you for the same period as you would get the Odin/Colonist mob, and then fly off making rude hand gestures at the Dominion Fleet which has shown up to chase them off, either that or she's all "I'm sorry Jim, but I've got Artanis on the phone acting like an old woman and demanding to know why the hell I'm on Korhal, gotta bug out".
You would only get access to the Thor if you went along the Matt story side (for balance sake really, since then there is one decent unit per side (Viking vs Thor)). Not sure what you would get for doing Media Blitz from the other side of the tree. Will have a think about it.
For pursuing Tosh's missions you would get the opportunity to buy the schematics from him through the Black Market for the stuff that you would miss getting access to via the missions that are unavailable due to your choices. This would mean that for a price you could still get Firebats/Vikings/Hellions if you didn't do the Evacuation or Diamondbacks/Vultures/Thors if you didn't do The Great Train Robbery. For the sake of balance Nova would offer you a contact she knows in the Dominion who will offer you the same services if you pick her.
I think this would leave the game content largely unchanged but present that content in a much more focused and dynamic way. It would also empower the whole choice aspect of the game and make it actually meaningful and tie in to the plot in a simple way that doesn't change anything of the overarching storyline yet at the same time form part of the dramatic build up for that plot.
I hope this has demonstrated that just by tightening up one of the three things that I've taken issue with the game could have been much better than it is (and it is already a fairly decent game), or at the very least provided some food for thought.
Thanks 
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I feel if you help selendis you would rather request her aid on char but then again im a sucker for protoss. + 3 protoss reasearch doesnt count as gratitude to me because i already knew i would get plenty same with zerg upgrades, its to much research as it is. For example, she should grant you zealot "mercs" or something like that. ;P
yea tightening the storyline would be good,
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I don't found the acting and the lines to be so bad to be honest, though I'm not a native English speaking guy so it doesn't annoy me at all, to me it sounded pretty convincing, only tychus I have the feeling was a bit over the top with his lines, but furthermore I think it was okay.
the choose your own mission is really the issue, and I think comes from the fact that it's something new from Blizzard, something I think that'll be improved, if I see WoW's track record, Warcraft's 3 improvements in the expansion I feel that it'll be improved.
and, the missions are available to edit in the starcraft 2 editor, so people annoyed with the actual structure can edit it, except some voice overs a skilled map maker etc can pretty much 'fix' the issues.
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Sweden33719 Posts
Seiniyta, the acting is actually good - great even, it's just that the WRITING is about as cheesy as they come. Fight scene in the cantina made me cringe :/
And honestly, how the hell do they find out someone has a bomb strapped to them and then ignore it for the entire game? Pissed me off to no end.
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i loved the single player.
...
until i got into the last valerian missions.
HOLY SHIT that ruined the whole game for me. FIRST of all, i've got my whole crew AND Matt, the freaking guy who KNOWS why i'm trying to save Kerrigan, against me. why the hell is he bitching when he knew about it and SUPPORTED me before those missions about saving her??? and WHY THE HELL is jimmy going BLAHBLAH SHUT UP AND DO AS I SAY! and then goes ahead and LIES to the whole crew WHY he's trying to save kerrigan? WHY???
so yeah raynor knows that he has to save kerrigan to save the universe, but then that douchebag goes ahead and tells the crew that "yeah uhmm... i wanna go do this suicide mission cause then people won't die to the zerg kk lets go!" INSTEAD of something like... "you know that protoss dude i used to work with back in the days? he's found hard evidence telling me that a dark force is coming to kill everyone of us and the only reason why i'm helping mengsk jr. is because kerrigan is the only one who can save us all from the big bad one. okay crew? lets go"
come on blizzard! why are you making jimmy, the guy who's all about justice and the truth, go and lie too his whole crew? why blizzard? if he's got a crew that knows why they have to do this then they'd trust jim a whole lot and would die for the right cause!
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On August 03 2010 07:51 Liquid`Jinro wrote:
And honestly, how the hell do they find out someone has a bomb strapped to them and then ignore it for the entire game? Pissed me off to no end.
Jim Raynor isn't the smartest cupcake in the batch.
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+1
Your thoughts are exactly what I have been thinking regarding SC2 story line and writing.
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I'd write the story first, then build a campaign formula around it, not the other way around. Its just obvious. They wanted a campaign where the player runs around gathering units and technologies. How do we motivate Raynor into doing this? Eh, let's just say the rebellion isn't going well and give them 20 side-quests to unlock whatever units they like and then we'll get to the meat and bones of the story. What's the story again? I dunno, I guess we'll need a way to get the Zerg to do a similar thing in the next expansion. How do we do that? How do they forget what they've evolved? The player would have to start out with Zerglings and Roaches and then get better stuff. Oh, I know! What if we cure Kerrigan, so she starts working with Raynor & Co. and then she has to run around the galaxy picking up new Zerg strains to add to her arsenal and get into some big confrontation with Mengsk to finish it off? Brilliant! And then Zeratul can start off with Zealots and Stalkers and rush around the galaxy gathering Protoss tribes and technology for the final confrontation. Oh man, we're good.
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It seemed to me that Blizzard just decided to increase the size of the campaign, but they didn't bother adapting the story to it. So instead all we get is 3x the gameplay content, but the same amount of story that is stretched out over 26 missions instead of 10. People aren't kidding when they say that more happens in 10 SC1 missions than in 26 SC2 missions.
I think the issue with Blizzard's writing technique is that they often sacrifice story for the sake of gameplay, and that sounds noble and all until you realize that there are plenty of games that manage to have strong stories and excellent gameplay at the same time. Warcraft in particular suffered HEAVILY from this, as the lore now has gigantic holes in it due to the story being put under the guillotine for the sake of a gameplay gimmick. Videogame stories may never have the depth of a good book, but they don't have to be. A videogame story is still more than capable of making players feeling every emotion in the human spectrum, and it's that emotion that makes games more enjoyable to play.
Despite what Blizzard may think, a game that tells a story has to make sure that it's a good story, otherwise it brings the quality of the whole game down. It's a lot harder to recommend SC2 to my friends when I'm afraid to play the campaign around friends/family because of the cringe-worthy dialogue, or the fact that I have to warn my friends about the mediocre writing before I recommend it to them. That shouldn't happen, especially to a game that had such a high budget.
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imo it needed MORE dialogue. theres plenty of filler (ie talking to the various characters where theyll give a few lines), but they needed more story dialogue. summary of the second half: "kerrigan, im gonna stop you" "no jim, you wont" "well im gonna", as told by a handful of short speeches peppered through each missions. i understand theres a lot of missions to spread this out into, and its only the first part of a trilogy, but it doesnt strongly convey the sense that kerrigan is being the badass she was or that the protoss is really a factor in this story
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Well that was certainly a humerus thread,to be sure,its obvious u spent a tone on free time on it,what it take you like a fay to write.....
Still youre wrong,youre wrong,youre wrong............or rather i dont agree with you,at at least most of youre points....
Gee where to start,the whole way youve retold the plot is based on youre own desires as to what it should have been,its youre perspective on causality
,like every decision matters.
1)Truth be told THIS IS A GAME so first and foremost comes gameplay...the decision to segment the different plots was made so that people could take the missions in any order,and have theyre chosen tech so as to tackle later missions with interesting builds,units and tech and research that complement eachother....This basically give the campaign a huge amount of re-playability,on a level ive honestly never seen before.The mission espetially on brutal take a carefully thought out tactic,unit mix and timing....Now depending on the order,i undertake the mission,the tech ive chose in previous ones,all that carefully planed stuff changes.....
So basically every time i play this campaign i will have a completely different experience,i can leave the colonists subplot for last and come back with flame turrets or thors,or vultures,place mines and blow the infected colonist to hell,no firebats,or medics or anything i did the first time,maybe banshees......AND sc1 every time you did a mission it was the same build tactic,available units.......
NOW HERE is where it get really compelling,most games that go with this design,go for choice,and completely abandon any progression significance,you basically get sent to random place with no connection between them,each mission has its own story but no overarching plot......
In this game we got subplots,spamming several planets,subplots that are triggered by the core events in the game,Kerrigans invasion,it presents opportunities for some,like Tosh to work towards their goal(which he couldnt before,but with Mengst distracted with the zerg invasion,suddenly makes that prison a crackable target and gives him an opportunity to pull the same stunt Mengst did against the Confederacy and guess what Raynor is after the same but for different reasons,still it bring both of them together until they understand each-other limits)
and AT THE SAME TIME causes alot of events for others,like the colonists.....who are abandoned by the dominion> kerrigan uses them for experiments with infestation,trying to recreate the same act that turned her in to what she is(read the Dark Templar saga,it is explained that after the destruction of the cerebrates,Kerrigan seeks to recreate the act,to have infested humans keep their intelligence and personality,yet be obedient to her) >ergo she seeks agents to carry out her will across the galaxy,not just mindless warriors..., > the colonists are either killed or infested(with is the zergs primary function) >Raynor ensures their flight from the rampaging
swarm,unknowing their already infested>another colony gets contaminated as a result and this time only flame can suffice > the survives flee again,but zergs spores have already impregnated them >protoss scans reveal the spores and the new executor,with the same job as Tassadar before her,does her duty toward her people,exterminating zerg and their food(terrans) wherever theyre found.....
So the whole chain is started by Rainor,if he didnt rescue them in the first place theyd be killed in the first zerg wave,effective eliminating the whole plotline.....
Still the plotline represent to the plight of normal people during these intergalactic events,what these wars cost them(and Rainor does fight for the people first and foremost ,its why hes always there) The plotline can happen at any time during the beginnig and ending of the war and its still just as important as any of the other plots.....Why because it helps shape Raynors decisions in the end,to go to Char,to end the slaughter,Kerrigan and the arifact are the primary motives,but this one is no less important....
All plot-lines stem from the zerg invasion and their resolution influences Raynor in some away or other to go to Char(making them equal in importance) ,the plot for the colonists,the artifacts,Zeratuls prequel story of Kerrigans importance and the prophecy,hell even the plot against Mengst,Why fight for freedom,if the zerg are going to destroy everything.....
In the end,he has the tools ,he has plenty of motivation to do it.......and while he starts conflicted in his morals and about what to do,all these events help him resolve his inner daemons......and lead him to make the choice he does....making them JUST AS IMPORTANT as the beginning and ending....
After all he is the protagonist in SC2,which is a very different approach to storytelling the the one in SC1.In the Blizz documentary they actually explain,that with sc2 they chose to portrait these event throught the eyes of the characters....rather then the events taking precedence over character development....
AS far as peoples complaining,that the first act has no closure,theyre wrong,Raynors story has closure,in that in that find himself ,after brood war made him vengeful and bitter from,from idealistic and lighthearted.....
And most importantly his dream,the one he had aboard the Hypirion above Char after Kerrigan was abducted ,in the first place, of them dancing and she being human again,and him holding her in his arms(mind you their relationship was was only hinted in the first game, the retelling of the same events in the books shows the extent of theyre actual feelings for each other),finally come true,he s reunited with the woman he want the way he wanted her to be....even thou for all the years he thouth it was impossible...
This is the thing about blizzard story telling,they dont care if you havent read any of the books ,or the comics.......(where that Dark Voices identity,purpose and abilities are all explained ,how he can posses others,like Duran,who was just a normal confederate officer ,before being possessed by The Fallen One,setting the stage for the hybrids from BW that we see as realized project in sc2,the same probaly happend with that Dark Archon Ulresaj and that doctor in sc2 secret mission) ..............or played the original.A lot of plot point are explained in other media,and some polot developments bign in sc1,but are resolved in 2...So taking any product on its own and trying to make sence of it can be hard.....
Thats why so many thing in sc2,like the Fallen One,That Prophecy,why people hate Kerrigan in the first place and call her the Queen Bitch of the universe.....where the Sc2 plot line actually begins.........none of that is actually in the game,making people thing that blizz imagined up so plot that were never there.......they are just not in the game itself,but they still exist in the lore......
So i like the story alot it resolves alot of existing plots from before,and bring this huge conflict all the way down to one man...As far as choice,there is no story choice,both alternatives lead to the same conclusion and none of the are morally good or bad,both are withing the realm of Raynors character...,and both are technically good.....again this choice is presented only for gameplay purposes..........
The only thing that bugged me was some of the dialog,not the voice actors but the writing...i rolled my eyes in a few places,but not as much as you by a long shot,most lines i was sold on based primarily on the good voice acting....Also after playing throu the whole thing i sorta hoped for more CGI,but thats beside the point....Tassadars resurection(sort of) bugged me a little at first,but they did hint at it,again in the books,and hes not really alive,he cant fight along side his brether so yeah......
To summarize,it wasnt perfect,but its more than ive hoped for,after so many years and so many unresolved issues,i wasnt sure how they could possibly resolve any of them.....Especially liked the ending,so much so that i cant bring myself to play the campaign again,that scene and that song is stuck in my head.....,it defiantly touched a heart string.....alos Tychass he kinda grew on me,it was sad that both men were friends,but in the end he had no choice......it was either her or him....
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I hate to say it, but can i make a comparison?
the above poster is making the same mistake as others who try to reconcile huge mistakes in the star wars prequels with things in the external universe, such as books, movies, ect...
And may i give my humble opinion that that argument is bull shit. Lets look at this game as a standalone product please.
However, there were some good points made otherwise. im not hating on you just on that argument it really bugs me.
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On August 03 2010 11:00 DocM wrote:
I hate to say it, but can i make a comparison?
the above poster is making the same mistake as others who try to reconcile huge mistakes in the star wars prequels with things in the external universe, such as books, movies, ect...
And may i give my humble opinion that that argument is bull shit. Lets look at this game as a standalone product please.
However, there were some good points made otherwise. im not hating on you just on that argument it really bugs me.
There is no external universe,its all created by Blizzard,and how in gods name can you judge the story on its own merits,that means not including neither starcraft or broodwar.....but without them the story makes no sense whatsoever and serves no purpose,its a sequel after all,you cant judge it on its own sake....
On that note 12 have passed between both games,Blizzard has expanded on the story of sc as it was back in 1998,going so far as filling the gap in the 4 years,they obviously take that content seriously enough to tie most of it with the events in sc2......
If you insist on judging sc2 on its own merits,then there is no way anyone will be please,since its just a chapter of a ongoing story,......just as you could not understand brood war without the original,so cant you understand sc2s significance without the events from the past 4 years...
Also comparing to star wars is stupid,since Lucas himself doesnt take EU as canon,Blizzards sticks to all its content,its all canon....
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On August 03 2010 11:00 DocM wrote:
I hate to say it, but can i make a comparison?
the above poster is making the same mistake as others who try to reconcile huge mistakes in the star wars prequels with things in the external universe, such as books, movies, ect...
And may i give my humble opinion that that argument is bull shit. Lets look at this game as a standalone product please.
However, there were some good points made otherwise. im not hating on you just on that argument it really bugs me.
There is no external universe,its all created by Blizzard,and how in gods name can you judge the story on its own merits,that means not including neither starcraft or broodwar.....but without them the story makes no sense whatsoever and serves no purpose,its a sequel after all,you cant judge it on its own sake....
On that note 12 have passed between both games,Blizzard has expanded on the story of sc as it was back in 1998,going so far as filling the gap in the 4 years,they obviously take that content seriously enough to tie most of it with the events in sc2......
If you insist on judging sc2 on its own merits,then there is no way anyone will be please,since its just a chapter of a ongoing story,......just as you could not understand brood war without the original,so cant you understand sc2s significance without the events from the past 4 years...
Also comparing to star wars is stupid,since Lucas himself doesnt take EU as canon,Blizzards sticks to all its content,its all canon....
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I agree, the storytelling was very cringey. Overall, it lacked lacked the subtly/subtext that made the original epic. The characters were not believable, there was no motivation behind their actions. It was like watching a train-wreck a la 'Spiderman 3' style.
Too bad, overall still a great game because of the multiplayer. Hopefully they get it right next time.
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On August 03 2010 10:38 DocSnyder wrote:
Especially liked the ending,so much so that i cant bring myself to play the campaign again,that scene and that song is stuck in my head.....,it defiantly touched a heart string.....alos Tychass he kinda grew on me,it was sad that both men were friends,but in the end he had no choice......it was either her or him....
(SPOILERS AHEAD, though if you're this far in this thread I don't know why you care about spoilers)
Actually I really disagree with this. Why was it her or him? He blocked Tychus's shot, surely he didn't have to shoot back? After all the trouble he goes through to help random people, he just shoots his old friend straight up? Couldn't he have disarmed him instead? He'll give the Queen of Blades a second chance but not Tychus? I thought that was ridiculous. I didn't even like Tychus that much, but I couldn't believe that happened.
And I have to agree with the OP, although I also agree that it is a game first and foremost. Not that that makes it excusable to have bad story telling, but that does make it compelling. I still have hope that the following games will focus more on story since they will have different meta elements.
I was talking to my friend about the story from the prophecy. He revealed that he didn't even know what happened during those missions. I laughed and said that's probably the main story behind the entire trilogy. He responded well if that's the main story then why were they optional missions? I thought that was a REALLY good question.
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In regards to the OP, I applaud you Poobah. You've completely unscrambled my mixed feelings about the single player, even in spots I didn't realize I was annoyed by.
I finished the campaign, and besides being rather irked how they blew over Tychus's death, I couldn't decide if I liked the product at as a whole. I certainly felt like the missions were very cool, but I never actually felt engaged with them like I did in SC1--I was more curious to see what happened in the next level than I was actually focused on the current one. I think you explained just right why there was no reason to really care what was happening RIGHT NOW.
I do agree that as a whole Wings of Liberty was decent, but it seemed more like a prequel than a solid Part 1, just setting the stage for the heavy hitting story in the expansions. But I worry that if Blizzard doesn't change something, Part 2 and 3 will be lackluster as well. If they really want to step their game up and deliver some great story, I hope like hell they read your post.
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op is truth : (
When I played sc2... the voice acting was amazing, but the lines and plot was just bullshit. The missions were nice gamplay wise as you said, but the story... ugh...
I feel your completely right on all accounts though.
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On August 03 2010 09:21 Bibdy wrote:
Oh, I know! What if we cure Kerrigan, so she starts working with Raynor & Co. and then she has to run around the galaxy picking up new Zerg strains to add to her arsenal and get into some big confrontation with Mengsk to finish it off? Brilliant! And then Zeratul can start off with Zealots and Stalkers and rush around the galaxy gathering Protoss tribes and technology for the final confrontation. Oh man, we're good.
I have a horrible feeling you might be spot on. 
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On August 03 2010 07:51 Liquid`Jinro wrote:
Seiniyta, the acting is actually good - great even, it's just that the WRITING is about as cheesy as they come. Fight scene in the cantina made me cringe :/
And honestly, how the hell do they find out someone has a bomb strapped to them and then ignore it for the entire game? Pissed me off to no end.
Who has a bomb strapped to them? I think youre thinking of tychus whos marine suit is rigged to shut down his organs at the command of a button. Raynor's thing is to let people make their own choices so I felt like it was appropriate, iono.
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Indeed, applause for Poobah, for that was a pointed and hilarious post that transcended all other postings on this site except for a Mensrea battle report.Your writing was so good it makes me able to guess at identifying you out of many thousands of people, and say that you're none other than Ahri???  ^_^ I would have LOLed at many points in the OP more if I was not tired from staying up late to end that unsatisfying story but fun gameplay...I have to agree with everything, except that I really don't like even the how the toss were prepared to go down without hope of surviving went down.
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I agree with most of the op's points about the story. I think it was way too cliché and I too was facepalming or just skipping dialouge because it was boring to listen to. And yes this is a game which should have good gameplay, but games now a days is a media like movies or litterature ie. the means of telling a story.. in the end bad scripting/writing/imagination/creativity, whatever you want to call it is what makes this single player campaign medicore, it really doesn't matter how much graphics and gameplay you pour into it, it will always be the worst part that will stand out and drag it down.
Anyway this is of course a matter of oppinion and I will believe you if you say it is the best story you ever heard... my argument there however would be a list of games, books and movies for you to expand your horizon.
The multiplayer though.. very much enjoyable
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I agree with a lot of the posts in this thread. The campaign was okay, but nothing amazing like the original game and expansion. The voice acting in SC2 was awesome, but I thought there wasn't enough interaction between characters. I personally loved all the scenes, and yes even the one where Raynor gives his speech over the radio on Char where we see all the soldiers holding the line. I love the Protoss the most out of the three, and seeing all the heroes of their respective class in the final mission in Zeratul's side story was awesome, especially seeing an "older" Artanis sporting a sick looking armor.
The ending cinematic was beautifully made in my eyes, but it left me wanting more. StarCraft has never been one of those happy endings, but more bittersweet. Lets hope the next 2 expansions pick up the pace and be better than the original like how Brood War is.
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I agree on almost everything with Poobah exceptions being his predictions of the future Plot and that everything storywise was horrible. He demonstrated it himself how the very same plot gets much better with a less free structure and interconnected events.
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Well, It was certainly a bit underwhelming. I remember replaying SC1+BW over and over because I though the story was so good. I remember listening to the little mission briefings, and they really helped to get the story moving. I think that the biggest flaw in this campaign is the introduction of the BIG BAD GUY. The thing is, in BW they brough in the UED, another terran organisation but still a threat to alot of folks. Why couldn't they focus on mengsk in this campaign.
And what also left a huge negative impact on me is that during their blizzcon sc2 panels they were talking about making choices. NONE OF IT in this game. nothing matters in the end. I mean, simple things like not helping the colonists. Yeah, they die and you get no medic units or w/e. And maybe if you skip helping them, you can still land on their planet and salvage things, the zerg would stil be there so you just fend them off while ur collecting wots left. Just some kind of choice, pleaaaaaaaaaaase. Or don't tease us with it at all 
And For the next expansions, I hope that either the zerg or the protoss or Mengsk will just try and hunt down jimmy/kerrigan.
Though , now that they have introduced the hybrids they kind of burned their own bridges. They can't totaly disregard them now, so yes infact we will probably see something like the big fight for the world tree aka the universe.
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Wow,just wow,its like other people are blind,i loled at every part of this review,its like he played a different game than i did,no zerg invasion,all colonist missions and half the artifact mission put you in the direct path of the invading swarm.... oh and where people sleeping when Raynor was fighting the dominion on Tarsonis,Valhalla,Korhal .......what do you expect him to do say oh lets take my one battlecruiser and 4 dropships and charge the dominion fleet head on,you know the one Mengst spend 4 years and countless resources building
...same with Kerrigan what do you expect him to do against billions of monstrous organisms...even in the end where they invaded char......they were freaking losing from the very beginning.... pods and ship were falling from orbit by the dozens,the whole frigging assault was based on the existence of the artifact,even still they manged to survive a only 30 minutes against the invading swarn......even after Kerrigans rescue,you could see the battle still raging with zerg flying into low orbit and dominion ships dropping like flies....
....oh and the protoss,what exactly the the reviewer expect to happen in a terran campaign with the main toss,they have no dealing with Raynor,they're rebuilding their civilization and have plenty of social issues unresolved.....none witch have any place in a terran centric (make that Raynor-centric)campaign.....the only place where they could have possibly squeezed them they did......as for character depth - its like the reviewer skip every every cut-scene and dialog on the Hypirion and wonders why theres no charakter progression,gee i wonder why...and just to get it straight the main characters of this game were...Jim,Tychas and Matt.........not Kerrigan or Zeratul,or Mengst....If you ask me there might have been a bit to much interaction between them and not enough general intrigue between the other factions,but after all it was not about that....
I think the reviewer and people in general were,are still pissed about the campaign races splitting up.......because of a whole lot of things they expected to get answered didnt......i knew this would happen after 12 years of waiting.,.....people would want a million things and they wont get them all.....
The only thing i can give the reviewer is that Kerrigan need more personality,more character development and more meaningful dialog and Mengst oratorical and manipulative side could have shined more,thou when i think the whole thing was his scheming with Tychas and the artifacts(in the secret mission),there was plenty of backroom manipulation in there for my tastes.....
Honestly,if people are going to trash this game story at least give good reasons,i cant help it if you dont understand and havent reflected the frigging plot ........
Now granted i can give some people complaints of overly-cheesy dialog some merits,but sc1 dialog was equally cheesy at times and people are so blinded by 12 years of devotion to that story(which ,if you like to segment the shit out of every standalone product is better)........
For a free flow campaign they did an amazing job in my eyes ,back in the day when i heard that they were going to add choice ,i feared the whole story would be ruined.....
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On August 03 2010 13:07 Bronyaur wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2010 10:38 DocSnyder wrote:
Especially liked the ending,so much so that i cant bring myself to play the campaign again,that scene and that song is stuck in my head.....,it defiantly touched a heart string.....alos Tychass he kinda grew on me,it was sad that both men were friends,but in the end he had no choice......it was either her or him....
(SPOILERS AHEAD, though if you're this far in this thread I don't know why you care about spoilers) Actually I really disagree with this. Why was it her or him? He blocked Tychus's shot, surely he didn't have to shoot back? After all the trouble he goes through to help random people, he just shoots his old friend straight up? Couldn't he have disarmed him instead? He'll give the Queen of Blades a second chance but not Tychus? I thought that was ridiculous. I didn't even like Tychus that much, but I couldn't believe that happened.
+ Show Spoiler +If you talked to matt after one of the missions he tells you that his suit has a kill switch so that he can be remotely killed any time. At the end you find that he's working for mengsk and mengsk wants kerrigan dead therefore its safe to assume that if Tychus didn't kill Kerrigan Tychus would die. Essentially Raynor has to choose between Kerrigan or Tychus.
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On August 04 2010 02:10 ZeaL. wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2010 13:07 Bronyaur wrote:On August 03 2010 10:38 DocSnyder wrote:
Especially liked the ending,so much so that i cant bring myself to play the campaign again,that scene and that song is stuck in my head.....,it defiantly touched a heart string.....alos Tychass he kinda grew on me,it was sad that both men were friends,but in the end he had no choice......it was either her or him....
(SPOILERS AHEAD, though if you're this far in this thread I don't know why you care about spoilers) Actually I really disagree with this. Why was it her or him? He blocked Tychus's shot, surely he didn't have to shoot back? After all the trouble he goes through to help random people, he just shoots his old friend straight up? Couldn't he have disarmed him instead? He'll give the Queen of Blades a second chance but not Tychus? I thought that was ridiculous. I didn't even like Tychus that much, but I couldn't believe that happened. + Show Spoiler +If you talked to matt after one of the missions he tells you that his suit has a kill switch so that he can be remotely killed any time. At the end you find that he's working for mengsk and mengsk wants kerrigan dead therefore its safe to assume that if Tychus didn't kill Kerrigan Tychus would die. Essentially Raynor has to choose between Kerrigan or Tychus.
Exactly why dont people get this,further more,the blinking red light on Tychas suit at the end,was showing that the suit was in critical condition,and that in would implode any minute,those suit do have a small reactor in them.....As Matt said someones holding a trigger to his head,and that someone turned out to be Mengst,so Tychas had no choice,he would have just kept shooting until she was dead,maybe maybe even killed Jim,who didnt want to shot Tychas either,but they show the expression on his face when he decided its the only way....
As to why they did not prevent this,knowing of tychass predicament,well not counting the war and the million plot lines,Raynor had to worry about,how would they find out who was holding the trigger,especially if Tychas wouldnt say,they knew it was part of a deal that secure his freadom,just didnt know- a deal with who and why and considering the mans past,could have been anybody and for any reason.........
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the fight scene in the cantina was actually sweet. it was intense, as was the end of WOL.
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On August 04 2010 02:23 OneFierceZealot wrote:
the fight scene in the cantina was actually sweet. it was intense, as was the end of WOL.
Yes that rally showed how far each of them was willing to go....and showed how much Rainor changed since the beginning,in that seen he was calm ,collected and patient and just let Tychas vent,then incapacitated him with just on blow> there character progression fr you,from the drunk that wouldnt let go of the bottle in the beginning ....
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Lovely post. Generally well done. Sadly it underlines the moments where you can tell Blizzard's ambition was not fulfilled. SC was blessed with such great reviews because the basic mission design is so much better than its rivals and the story telling for all rtses is generally crap (SC1 excepted).
Did you ever feel that some of the side missions needed to be extended? Like you mention how Tosh's missions felt the most... random and inconsequential. I felt like there should have been a mission or two where you used those spectres to cause havoc.
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I agree with the OP. VA's were fine imo but the dialogue was horrible. (IE, Every spoken word from Kerrigan.) Side note on Kerrigan, I am sure am glad that she took the time to evolve high heels. Yep.
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I just want to point out one aspect of the story that Blizzard did incredibly well. Once you leave for the Char missions each level is incredibly important to the story. The landing, the zerg air platform (I haven't done the ground mission yet), and the final mission each felt crucially important to the story. I was engaged and excited throughout that entire section. I didn't care much about General Warfield but I felt saving him was a nice throwback to the saving General Duke mission in SC1. What made that section of the story all the more compelling was the in between sections. Watching Raynor and Tychus sitting in an under fire base-camp while discussing the next mission made me feel like I was actually on Char. If the entire game had the same immersive feeling I wouldn't care at all about the gaping plot holes. It has been said before but I think the underlying problems with the campaign are not the order in which you play missions, though that is an issue, but is in fact that the missions mean almost nothing. Getting the pieces of the artifact is technically advancing the story but ends up feelings like a small plot point extended for half the game. To feel like you are immersed in the world, and advancing Raynor's aims, you need to be able to feel like you are impacting the story in a real way (not just saving colonists because it's the good guys job to save people). By cutting down on the sheer randomness of each mission choice, and making each mission relevant to the overarching story, the whole WoL campaign would have been far more gratifying. I applaud Blizzard for having moments of greatness, but I am disappointed it was so inconsistent.
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The missions are definitely too non-linear. While a choice is nice it also meant that each hand didn't know what the other hand was doing. The prophecy didn't factor into the story because those missions are optional (unless I'm mistaken). Saving the colonists and Tosh's side quests were just that, side quests. The 'main story' of collecting the artifacts was also one that felt very much like side quests. The story line you expect to be important, the actual revolution, turns out to be a side quest. It was just a little all over the place.
I'd be fine with Tosh/Colonist being side quests, but Rebellion and Collecting the artifacts should have been rolled together into one overarching narrative. Even better if you incorporate the Colonists arch into it.
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On August 03 2010 13:07 Bronyaur wrote:
(SPOILERS AHEAD, though if you're this far in this thread I don't know why you care about spoilers)
Actually I really disagree with this. Why was it her or him? He blocked Tychus's shot, surely he didn't have to shoot back? After all the trouble he goes through to help random people, he just shoots his old friend straight up? Couldn't he have disarmed him instead? He'll give the Queen of Blades a second chance but not Tychus? I thought that was ridiculous. I didn't even like Tychus that much, but I couldn't believe that happened.
(my view)Tychus let Jim see the laser, so he probably wanted Jim to kill him. If he had died by the suit then it would have been very painfull(organs being crushed or shut down), but by letting Jim see what he had to do he was able to avoid a terrible death while letting Jim save Kerrigan. The Mobias foundation had the kill button so he had to help them(and the artifact worked pretty well)
And I have to agree with the OP, although I also agree that it is a game first and foremost. Not that that makes it excusable to have bad story telling, but that does make it compelling. I still have hope that the following games will focus more on story since they will have different meta elements.
(my view)A more stuctured campaign would help Blizard with the story and they are better with larger scale conflicts(hybrid vs kerrigan anyone?)
I was talking to my friend about the story from the prophecy. He revealed that he didn't even know what happened during those missions. I laughed and said that's probably the main story behind the entire trilogy. He responded well if that's the main story then why were they optional missions? I thought that was a REALLY good question.
(my view)It's a possible future not THE future. It's optional because it may not happen and Raynor would still save Kerrigan just because of the warning from Zeratul. To put it this way, the Zeratul missions are what happenned when Kerrigan died(or dies) before she the hybrids invaded. [/QUOTE]
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On August 04 2010 04:50 Logo wrote:
The missions are definitely too non-linear. While a choice is nice it also meant that each hand didn't know what the other hand was doing. The prophecy didn't factor into the story because those missions are optional (unless I'm mistaken). Saving the colonists and Tosh's side quests were just that, side quests. The 'main story' of collecting the artifacts was also one that felt very much like side quests. The story line you expect to be important, the actual revolution, turns out to be a side quest. It was just a little all over the place.
I'd be fine with Tosh/Colonist being side quests, but Rebellion and Collecting the artifacts should have been rolled together into one overarching narrative. Even better if you incorporate the Colonists arch into it.
You really think those were side missions,that they wont carry weight in the expansions and Blizzard wont put them as causes for the public unrest....all the colonist on the fringe worlds will be the first to join Raynor when he need an army,whereas Toshs actions ended up releasing every political,philosophical and military group,that Mengst came into Conflit with > all of a sudden he has so many allies he can draw upon,where he was alone in the beginning....,not to mention the revel that he used the zerg as bioweapon,stands a a contradiction to his whole regime,that united the humans in a time of great crisis....hes just a terrorist now himself..>imagine all the volunteers that will be flooding groups like Raynors Raider....he might just build an army for himself,like Matt said "One broadcast won them a bigger victory,than i hundred battles"
Blizz themselfs said they wanted to enlarge the story,but when they did it became to big,so they made 3 games instead.......so when Mengst falls next game,youll know how and why he fell....
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On August 04 2010 02:09 DocSnyder wrote:
Honestly,if people are going to trash this game story at least give good reasons,i cant help it if you dont understand and havent reflected the frigging plot ........
Well I´d say YOU are the one that didn´t get it.
As the review quite clearly explained the cheesy and cliche plot is regrettable but not the real issue - SC itself was just as bad but it worked.
The real core issue is that the modular Mission structure breaks vital elements of storytelling above all Tension and a consistent Narrative.
On August 04 2010 05:26 DocSnyder wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2010 04:50 Logo wrote:
The missions are definitely too non-linear. While a choice is nice it also meant that each hand didn't know what the other hand was doing. The prophecy didn't factor into the story because those missions are optional (unless I'm mistaken). Saving the colonists and Tosh's side quests were just that, side quests. The 'main story' of collecting the artifacts was also one that felt very much like side quests. The story line you expect to be important, the actual revolution, turns out to be a side quest. It was just a little all over the place.
I'd be fine with Tosh/Colonist being side quests, but Rebellion and Collecting the artifacts should have been rolled together into one overarching narrative. Even better if you incorporate the Colonists arch into it. You really think those were side missions,that they wont carry weight in the expansions and Blizzard wont put them as causes for the public unrest....all the colonist on the fringe worlds will be the first to join Raynor when he need an army,whereas Toshs actions ended up releasing every political,philosophical and military group,that Mengst came into Conflit with > all of a sudden he has so many allies he can draw upon,where he was alone in the beginning....,not to mention the revel that he used the zerg as bioweapon,stands a a contradiction to his whole regime,that united the humans in a time of great crisis....hes just a terrorist now himself..>imagine all the volunteers that will be flooding groups like Raynors Raider....he might just build an army for himself,like Matt said "One broadcast won them a bigger victory,than i hundred battles" Blizz themselfs said they wanted to enlarge the story,but when they did it became to big,so they made 3 games instead.......so when Mengst falls next game,youll know how and why he fell....
It´s nice IF Blizzard would use the results of the "sidemissions" in the addon (they said they wouldn´t though) but they really SHOULD have used them in THIS game. But they weren´t even able to use the sidemissions with a single ending. The Prophecy is NEVER mentioned outside of itself - would have been strange if Raynor rambled about saving Kerrigan to save the universe to a player that skipped the Zeratul Missions.
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Yeah my point about them being side missions has more to do with them being optional and not really building on the single beginning (Mar Sara) or the single end (Char). They have some impact on the universe if you do them, but it's not the core story being told as the actions are never referenced on Char or in collecting the artifacts.
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Sweden33719 Posts
On August 03 2010 16:45 Medzo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2010 07:51 Liquid`Jinro wrote:
Seiniyta, the acting is actually good - great even, it's just that the WRITING is about as cheesy as they come. Fight scene in the cantina made me cringe :/
And honestly, how the hell do they find out someone has a bomb strapped to them and then ignore it for the entire game? Pissed me off to no end. Who has a bomb strapped to them? I think youre thinking of tychus whos marine suit is rigged to shut down his organs at the command of a button. Raynor's thing is to let people make their own choices so I felt like it was appropriate, iono.
Isn't that basically the same thing?
"Oh hey, a close friend of mine has a gun to his head and is acting weirdly - let's trust him completely anyways".
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On August 04 2010 05:44 Unentschieden wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2010 02:09 DocSnyder wrote:
Honestly,if people are going to trash this game story at least give good reasons,i cant help it if you dont understand and havent reflected the frigging plot ........
Well I´d say YOU are the one that didn´t get it. As the review quite clearly explained the cheesy and cliche plot is regrettable but not the real issue - SC itself was just as bad but it worked. The real core issue is that the modular Mission structure breaks vital elements of storytelling above all Tension and a consistent Narrative. Show nested quote +On August 04 2010 05:26 DocSnyder wrote:On August 04 2010 04:50 Logo wrote:
The missions are definitely too non-linear. While a choice is nice it also meant that each hand didn't know what the other hand was doing. The prophecy didn't factor into the story because those missions are optional (unless I'm mistaken). Saving the colonists and Tosh's side quests were just that, side quests. The 'main story' of collecting the artifacts was also one that felt very much like side quests. The story line you expect to be important, the actual revolution, turns out to be a side quest. It was just a little all over the place.
I'd be fine with Tosh/Colonist being side quests, but Rebellion and Collecting the artifacts should have been rolled together into one overarching narrative. Even better if you incorporate the Colonists arch into it. You really think those were side missions,that they wont carry weight in the expansions and Blizzard wont put them as causes for the public unrest....all the colonist on the fringe worlds will be the first to join Raynor when he need an army,whereas Toshs actions ended up releasing every political,philosophical and military group,that Mengst came into Conflit with > all of a sudden he has so many allies he can draw upon,where he was alone in the beginning....,not to mention the revel that he used the zerg as bioweapon,stands a a contradiction to his whole regime,that united the humans in a time of great crisis....hes just a terrorist now himself..>imagine all the volunteers that will be flooding groups like Raynors Raider....he might just build an army for himself,like Matt said "One broadcast won them a bigger victory,than i hundred battles" Blizz themselfs said they wanted to enlarge the story,but when they did it became to big,so they made 3 games instead.......so when Mengst falls next game,youll know how and why he fell.... It´s nice IF Blizzard would use the results of the "sidemissions" in the addon (they said they wouldn´t though) but they really SHOULD have used them in THIS game. But they weren´t even able to use the sidemissions with a single ending. The Prophecy is NEVER mentioned outside of itself - would have been strange if Raynor rambled about saving Kerrigan to save the universe to a player that skipped the Zeratul Missions.
Look above all,and i repeat myself,IT IS A GAME,and Blizz wanted Player to have freedom to approach each mission the way they wanted,and in a game like starcraft,the available units and tech u have,make for a immensely different experience...........thats the only reason the story was approached at a none linear angle for the majority of the game...
what i believe is brilliance,that all these plotlines,can be taken at any order an yet they still somehow influence the ending,NOT DIRECTLY SPELLING IT OUT FOR U......because then blizz would have to say this happened first and this second............and that mean no gameplay choice,each mission is stuck at the same order always....no diff tech,no diff units> no REPLAYABILITY...
Yeah my point about them being side missions has more to do with them being optional and not really building on the single beginning (Mar Sara) or the single end (Char). They have some impact on the universe if you do them, but it's not the core story being told as the actions are never referenced on Char or in collecting the artifacts.
Same thing,this mission you call "side" couldnt not have happened otside of the plotline "ZERG INVASION" ---none of them,they are a result(or should i say are made possible) of Kerrigan invading terran space to look for the artifacts.....thy lead to Char all of them,WHY because is Jim Raynors decision to go to Char.....and he does that for several reasons....all stemming from the transpired events....
The thing is,he told his crew an Tychas a reason they would get....he gave diff people that he was risking a reason theyd understand....
"Listen up crew....were going to Char....because so many colonist have died or infested at the hands of the zerg,because if we dont stop the zerg they be no freedom to fight for,oh and zeratul said if we dont save Kerrigan,the universe is going to be conquered by hybrids controlling the zerg,but if Kerrigan is saved than the Overminds plans,who by the way was good,just had no free will...............................................blalalalalalalaalala,oh and we have an artifact from the Xelnaga that can kill zerg,but undo infestetion,but i have no idea where its form,or does it even do what its suppose to.........or and KERRIAGANS is my girlfrind and i want her back,,,,,,,NOW WHOSE WITH ME!!!!!
??????????????
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Eh, this whole discussion really boils down the Blizzard's choice to have the modular mission structure and really, they can't win -- Had they not done it the single player would've been a lot more underwhelming gameplay wise and have a whole lot less replay value while doing it does cost you some narrative experience I guess.
As for most of the other complaints, I find it really cute how every single poster who complains honestly thinks they know so much better. "Kerrigan's dialog was terrible, obviously!" "The Dark Voice is a stupid bad guy!" "Everyone's gonna ally together and it'll be boring!" Seriously guys, have some faith, don't you think Blizzard has thought of it already? Maybe its not an accident, maybe there's a purpose and you just don't get it. I've defended Kerrigan in this game before and I'll say it again, 4 years alone with a bunch of Hydralisks as conversation buddies listening to voices in your head is gonna make you a little crazy and aloof - comes with the territory and I freaking love her dialog.
The Dark Voice is a one dimensional bad guy - yes. And as the OP himself said so was Sauron. Did that make it a bad narrative? You can criticize Lord of the Rings for a lot of things, but it is a critically acclaimed piece of literature -- sometimes the point is exactly that the bad guy is just bad. I mean honestly, this game, and in all honesty, most all narratives told nowadays, are too heavy handed on the moral gray area. Sometimes the bad guy is just fuckin evil. We already have Raynor torn between doing the right thing and the vengeful thing, Kerrigan, who is literally schizophrenically evil/good, the protoss who are fractured into fanatics and loyalists among whom, if you know much about the connecting plot between BW and now, are themselves not getting along very well (The templar castes are still not playing well with each other), I really don't need the bad guy to be some tormented soul who you kind of pity but have to kill anyway. Sometimes I just wanna save the universe -- And in the shadow of that a great story can be told, where we get to see everyone's true colors.
And as for everyone banding together, honestly, do you really think it's gonna be that simple? Yeah there will be motivation to do so but you do expect Mengsk and the survivors of Aiur to pick up arms alongside Kerrigan and Raynor? I'd wager a whole lot of money that it is in the shadow of doom, on the eve of oblivion, that we will see the true hearts of the characters involved. The Dark Voice isn't unequivocally evil because Blizzard didn't have anything else in mind (they coulda just used Kerrigan again!), but its instead because they have a story to tell -- one in which the Dark Voice is integral.
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I bet this DocSnyder guy works for blizzard or some hardcore blizzard fan boy or something.
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Look above all,and i repeat myself,IT IS A GAME,and Blizz wanted Player to have freedom to approach each mission the way they wanted,and in a game like starcraft,the available units and tech u have,make for a immensely different experience...........thats the only reason the story was approached at a none linear angle for the majority of the game...
what i believe is brilliance,that all these plotlines,can be taken at any order an yet they still somehow influence the ending,NOT DIRECTLY SPELLING IT OUT FOR U......because then blizz would have to say this happened first and this second............and that mean no gameplay choice,each mission is stuck at the same order always....no diff tech,no diff units> no replayabily...
First of all, calm the hell down. You know what they say right? Its usually those who shout the loudest who know the least. Step back away from the computer, do a little stretch, and sit down. You'll feel much better.
Usually bad writing in can't be objectively judged too well. In Starcraft 2, the entire design behind the writing was so gawdaweful it actually can.
Eh, this whole discussion really boils down the Blizzard's choice to have the modular mission structure and really, they can't win -- Had they not done it the single player would've been a lot more underwhelming gameplay wise and have a whole lot less replay value while doing it does cost you some narrative experience I guess.
nope.
Let me illustrate. Throughout the entire game, you fight the Tal'Darim on Five Separate occasions. In the first game, you fight the Confederacy on five separate occasions.
On a narrative level, the Tal'Darim should be at least close to the level of development given to the Confederacy. We should know their motives (remember, Ulrejaz is dead, so its unknown), we should have a reason to fight them beyond stealing their stuff. We should feel like they are an interesting and developed faction we wish to know more about.
Was this accomplished? You literally cannot argue yes, because the only dialogue ever present for five missions that developed this plotline were threads uttered by an anonymous purplish looking. This would be the equivalent of playing half of a campaign in Starcraft 1 and not having a single interesting antagonist.
The vast majority of missions are fillers. The narrative pacing was awful. The writing, which shouldn't have been awful, becomes awful because it is allowed to stand in a vacuum. Blizzard writing can't stand in a vacuum. This has absolutely nothing to do with the non-linear structure, just poor narratives.
OP, I can empathize with your frustration and what you're trying to do. I feel like its a bit misguided though. I'd recommend summarizing your points into bulletins and posting on the blizzforums. In addition, you should change your tone. Not that I had a problem with it, but generally developers hate being lectured on how to do their jobs by fans. It should be worded as criticism or suggestion, not "here is my dissertation on how to construct a proper video game narrative".
You have a lot of good ideas there. But theirs also too much "mental masturbation" for it to be taken seriously by anyone who gathers feedback. Just be concise and levies criticism with the campaign.
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Even if the dark voice causes something other than a, "band together and kill the evil" type scenario he's still lame.
Any bad guy that wants to destroy everything just to destroy it is lame as hell*. Kerrigan was awesome as a bad guy precisely because she had motivation to do what she did. The zerg wasn't evil, they just wanted to expand, adapt, and survive.
*exception is Kefka because he was legitly insane and totally awesome.
If the Xel'Naga came back to create a 3rd race (hybrids) to try and be the ultimate race the story would probably flow a lot better. There'd be no 'end of the universe', but there would be a case of the Hybrids expanding and consuming everything much like the Zerg acted at the start. It'd still be kinda lame, but at least it'd have an actual motivation to it.
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On August 04 2010 06:23 Keren wrote:
Eh, this whole discussion really boils down the Blizzard's choice to have the modular mission structure and really, they can't win -- Had they not done it the single player would've been a lot more underwhelming gameplay wise and have a whole lot less replay value while doing it does cost you some narrative experience I guess.
As for most of the other complaints, I find it really cute how every single poster who complains honestly thinks they know so much better. "Kerrigan's dialog was terrible, obviously!" "The Dark Voice is a stupid bad guy!" "Everyone's gonna ally together and it'll be boring!" Seriously guys, have some faith, don't you think Blizzard has thought of it already? Maybe its not an accident, maybe there's a purpose and you just don't get it. I've defended Kerrigan in this game before and I'll say it again, 4 years alone with a bunch of Hydralisks as conversation buddies listening to voices in your head is gonna make you a little crazy and aloof - comes with the territory and I freaking love her dialog.
The Dark Voice is a one dimensional bad guy - yes. And as the OP himself said so was Sauron. Did that make it a bad narrative? You can criticize Lord of the Rings for a lot of things, but it is a critically acclaimed piece of literature -- sometimes the point is exactly that the bad guy is just bad. I mean honestly, this game, and in all honesty, most all narratives told nowadays, are too heavy handed on the moral gray area. Sometimes the bad guy is just fuckin evil. We already have Raynor torn between doing the right thing and the vengeful thing, Kerrigan, who is literally schizophrenically evil/good, the protoss who are fractured into fanatics and loyalists among whom, if you know much about the connecting plot between BW and now, are themselves not getting along very well (The templar castes are still not playing well with each other), I really don't need the bad guy to be some tormented soul who you kind of pity but have to kill anyway. Sometimes I just wanna save the universe -- And in the shadow of that a great story can be told, where we get to see everyone's true colors.
And as for everyone banding together, honestly, do you really think it's gonna be that simple? Yeah there will be motivation to do so but you do expect Mengsk and the survivors of Aiur to pick up arms alongside Kerrigan and Raynor? I'd wager a whole lot of money that it is in the shadow of doom, on the eve of oblivion, that we will see the true hearts of the characters involved. The Dark Voice isn't unequivocally evil because Blizzard didn't have anything else in mind (they coulda just used Kerrigan again!), but its instead because they have a story to tell -- one in which the Dark Voice is integral.
True,in a sence blizzard wanted to give fans both freedom and a good story,even if it isnt cohesive....
In the end i think they a good job of marrying those two together well.....
The story is not oscor worthy,but its certainly worthy.....losts of people have enjoyed it ,me included......for a free-flow game..everything meshes together pretty well......so unless you can imagine and tell a better story better,which i cant then drop it.....
Oh and i dont think anybodys band together....the whole point is stoping the zerg from being used,doesnt mean theyre actually gonna fight hybrids at all let along along side the other races,for one terrans dot even give a shit...
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On August 04 2010 06:33 mkfk1 wrote:
I bet this DocSnyder guy works for blizzard or some hardcore blizzard fan boy or something.
Thats not true,im actually on a salary,oh and Blizzards is trying to assume control of the world and make people like sc2s plot,so we can band and fight the hybrids together.....
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On August 04 2010 06:23 Keren wrote:
The Dark Voice is a one dimensional bad guy - yes. And as the OP himself said so was Sauron. Did that make it a bad narrative? You can criticize Lord of the Rings for a lot of things, but it is a critically acclaimed piece of literature -- sometimes the point is exactly that the bad guy is just bad. I mean honestly, this game, and in all honesty, most all narratives told nowadays, are too heavy handed on the moral gray area. Sometimes the bad guy is just fuckin evil. We already have Raynor torn between doing the right thing and the vengeful thing, Kerrigan, who is literally schizophrenically evil/good, the protoss who are fractured into fanatics and loyalists among whom, if you know much about the connecting plot between BW and now, are themselves not getting along very well (The templar castes are still not playing well with each other), I really don't need the bad guy to be some tormented soul who you kind of pity but have to kill anyway. Sometimes I just wanna save the universe -- And in the shadow of that a great story can be told, where we get to see everyone's true colors.
Terrible comparison. LotR is a fantastic piece of literature with so much more to it than a one dimensional villain. Just because WoL and LotR share one thing in common (a fairly one-dimensional bad guy) doesn't mean you can compare them. It's not just that WoL had a one-dimensional Dark Voice - it's that every single facet of the story was absolutely pathetic and the writers of this shit should've been fired. There wasn't one even remotely deep character throughout the entire thing and the story reeks of cliches and rip-offs from their own games, not to mention basically throwing everything from BW straight out the window.
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On August 04 2010 06:33 Half wrote:Show nested quote +
Look above all,and i repeat myself,IT IS A GAME,and Blizz wanted Player to have freedom to approach each mission the way they wanted,and in a game like starcraft,the available units and tech u have,make for a immensely different experience...........thats the only reason the story was approached at a none linear angle for the majority of the game...
what i believe is brilliance,that all these plotlines,can be taken at any order an yet they still somehow influence the ending,NOT DIRECTLY SPELLING IT OUT FOR U......because then blizz would have to say this happened first and this second............and that mean no gameplay choice,each mission is stuck at the same order always....no diff tech,no diff units> no replayabily...
First of all, calm the hell down. You know what they say right? Its usually those who shout the loudest who know the least. Step back away from the computer, do a little stretch, and sit down. You'll feel much better. Usually bad writing in can't be objectively judged too well. In Starcraft 2, the entire design behind the writing was so gawdaweful it actually can. Show nested quote +Eh, this whole discussion really boils down the Blizzard's choice to have the modular mission structure and really, they can't win -- Had they not done it the single player would've been a lot more underwhelming gameplay wise and have a whole lot less replay value while doing it does cost you some narrative experience I guess. nope. Let me illustrate. Throughout the entire game, you fight the Tal'Darim on Five Separate occasions. In the first game, you fight the Confederacy on five separate occasions. On a narrative level, the Tal'Darim should be at least close to the level of development given to the Confederacy. We should know their motives (remember, Ulrejaz is dead, so its unknown), we should have a reason to fight them beyond stealing their stuff. We should feel like they are an interesting and developed faction we wish to know more about. Was this accomplished? You literally cannot argue yes, because the only dialogue ever present for five missions that developed this plotline were threads uttered by an anonymous purplish looking. This would be the equivalent of playing half of a campaign in Starcraft 1 and not having a single interesting antagonist. The vast majority of missions are fillers. The narrative pacing was awful. The writing, which shouldn't have been awful, becomes awful because it is allowed to stand in a vacuum. Blizzard writing can't stand in a vacuum. This has absolutely nothing to do with the non-linear structure, just poor narratives. OP, I can empathize with your frustration and what you're trying to do. I feel like its a bit misguided though. I'd recommend summarizing your points into bulletins and posting on the blizzforums. In addition, you should change your tone. Not that I had a problem with it, but generally developers hate being lectured on how to do their jobs by fans. It should be worded as criticism or suggestion, not "here is my dissertation on how to construct a proper video game narrative". You have a lot of good ideas there. But theirs also too much "mental masturbation" for it to be taken seriously by anyone who gathers feedback. Just be concise and levies criticism with the campaign.
What makes u think im shouting,the CAPS,its just to put the attention to those words,im actully lathing my ass off...,or do you actually think i care what other people think of this game......but this discussion is actually a lot fun..
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On August 04 2010 06:45 Stratos_speAr wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2010 06:23 Keren wrote:
The Dark Voice is a one dimensional bad guy - yes. And as the OP himself said so was Sauron. Did that make it a bad narrative? You can criticize Lord of the Rings for a lot of things, but it is a critically acclaimed piece of literature -- sometimes the point is exactly that the bad guy is just bad. I mean honestly, this game, and in all honesty, most all narratives told nowadays, are too heavy handed on the moral gray area. Sometimes the bad guy is just fuckin evil. We already have Raynor torn between doing the right thing and the vengeful thing, Kerrigan, who is literally schizophrenically evil/good, the protoss who are fractured into fanatics and loyalists among whom, if you know much about the connecting plot between BW and now, are themselves not getting along very well (The templar castes are still not playing well with each other), I really don't need the bad guy to be some tormented soul who you kind of pity but have to kill anyway. Sometimes I just wanna save the universe -- And in the shadow of that a great story can be told, where we get to see everyone's true colors. Terrible comparison. LotR is a fantastic piece of literature with so much more to it than a one dimensional villain. Just because WoL and LotR share one thing in common (a fairly one-dimensional bad guy) doesn't mean you can compare them. It's not just that WoL had a one-dimensional Dark Voice - it's that every single facet of the story was absolutely pathetic and the writers of this shit should've been fired. There wasn't one even remotely deep character throughout the entire thing and the story reeks of cliches and rip-offs from their own games, not to mention basically throwing everything from BW straight out the window.
FTW
how the hell they keep their jobs right now... -_-
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it's that every single facet of the story was absolutely pathetic and the writers of this shit should've been fired. There wasn't one even remotely deep character throughout the entire thing and the story reeks of cliches and rip-offs from their own games, not to mention basically throwing everything from BW straight out the window.
Really video game writers tend to work pretty differently then say, script writers for TV shows or Hollywood. Their going to be working heavily with the cinematic and level design teams, and chances are the story was constructed in a pretty incoherent and disjointed order to begin with. Saying "the writing sucks fire the writers" is not necessarily fair, generally the issues with WoL could have happened not just from the writing department. Generally from my (admittedly small) pool of knowledge and experience all kinds of dumb stuff can happen. Cinematics can be made before writers even know what they're for, etc.
Directors are going to have a solid script their going to follow 99.9% of the time. Video games have that maybe .1% of the time.
If a TVs shows writing is horrible, firing the writers may be appropriate. 90% of the time its their fault. With video games, its more like 40%.
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On August 04 2010 06:44 DocSnyder wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2010 06:33 mkfk1 wrote:
I bet this DocSnyder guy works for blizzard or some hardcore blizzard fan boy or something.
Thats not true,im actually on a salary,oh and Blizzards is trying to assume control of the world and make people like sc2s plot,so we can band and fight the hybrids together.....
Blizzard is indeed trying to exert control. Everything from e-sports, to b-net 2.0 regulation, to map publishing, to selling 3 games because "there are too much story to fit into one", and now we have WOL where more than half of the missions are fucking fillers.
And yes, we will all fight the hybrid on the 3rd or even 4th expansions to protect the world tree...I mean the K- sector. Who knows, maybe the UED will sent a 2nd fleet with fillers to collect minerals and artifacts for a 5th expansion.
Blizzard if you are reading this, I want half my money back, because you sold me half a game.
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On August 04 2010 06:33 Half wrote:Show nested quote +
Look above all,and i repeat myself,IT IS A GAME,and Blizz wanted Player to have freedom to approach each mission the way they wanted,and in a game like starcraft,the available units and tech u have,make for a immensely different experience...........thats the only reason the story was approached at a none linear angle for the majority of the game...
what i believe is brilliance,that all these plotlines,can be taken at any order an yet they still somehow influence the ending,NOT DIRECTLY SPELLING IT OUT FOR U......because then blizz would have to say this happened first and this second............and that mean no gameplay choice,each mission is stuck at the same order always....no diff tech,no diff units> no replayabily...
First of all, calm the hell down. You know what they say right? Its usually those who shout the loudest who know the least. Step back away from the computer, do a little stretch, and sit down. You'll feel much better. Usually bad writing in can't be objectively judged too well. In Starcraft 2, the entire design behind the writing was so gawdaweful it actually can. Show nested quote +Eh, this whole discussion really boils down the Blizzard's choice to have the modular mission structure and really, they can't win -- Had they not done it the single player would've been a lot more underwhelming gameplay wise and have a whole lot less replay value while doing it does cost you some narrative experience I guess. nope. Let me illustrate. Throughout the entire game, you fight the Tal'Darim on Five Separate occasions. In the first game, you fight the Confederacy on five separate occasions. On a narrative level, the Tal'Darim should be at least close to the level of development given to the Confederacy. We should know their motives (remember, Ulrejaz is dead, so its unknown), we should have a reason to fight them beyond stealing their stuff. We should feel like they are an interesting and developed faction we wish to know more about. Was this accomplished? You literally cannot argue yes, because the only dialogue ever present for five missions that developed this plotline were threads uttered by an anonymous purplish looking. This would be the equivalent of playing half of a campaign in Starcraft 1 and not having a single interesting antagonist. The vast majority of missions are fillers. The narrative pacing was awful. The writing, which shouldn't have been awful, becomes awful because it is allowed to stand in a vacuum. Blizzard writing can't stand in a vacuum. This has absolutely nothing to do with the non-linear structure, just poor narratives. OP, I can empathize with your frustration and what you're trying to do. I feel like its a bit misguided though. I'd recommend summarizing your points into bulletins and posting on the blizzforums. In addition, you should change your tone. Not that I had a problem with it, but generally developers hate being lectured on how to do their jobs by fans. It should be worded as criticism or suggestion, not "here is my dissertation on how to construct a proper video game narrative". You have a lot of good ideas there. But theirs also too much "mental masturbation" for it to be taken seriously by anyone who gathers feedback. Just be concise and levies criticism with the campaign.
Again youre opinion,i can argue all of it,Like Raynor having no reason to steal theyre stuff......
Gee lets see on one side we have nonsensical fanatics,that believe the Artifacts belong to Gods,who were just a race themselves,not gods,the civilized protoss know this,so theyre not worshiping the artifact,instead just cherish them as a relic of the past(witch if they knew what it was capable of thyd also use it,hence the"If only we had known"),instead thise guys kill people on sight if they land on the planet,because the think theyre defilers.....
And on the other side we have Raynor fighting for a very real cause,freedom for the people from theyre oppressive regime,hes lacking badly in funds and is ready to give up.....
WHo has more right here?
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On August 04 2010 06:59 DocSnyder wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2010 06:33 Half wrote:
Look above all,and i repeat myself,IT IS A GAME,and Blizz wanted Player to have freedom to approach each mission the way they wanted,and in a game like starcraft,the available units and tech u have,make for a immensely different experience...........thats the only reason the story was approached at a none linear angle for the majority of the game...
what i believe is brilliance,that all these plotlines,can be taken at any order an yet they still somehow influence the ending,NOT DIRECTLY SPELLING IT OUT FOR U......because then blizz would have to say this happened first and this second............and that mean no gameplay choice,each mission is stuck at the same order always....no diff tech,no diff units> no replayabily...
First of all, calm the hell down. You know what they say right? Its usually those who shout the loudest who know the least. Step back away from the computer, do a little stretch, and sit down. You'll feel much better. Usually bad writing in can't be objectively judged too well. In Starcraft 2, the entire design behind the writing was so gawdaweful it actually can. Eh, this whole discussion really boils down the Blizzard's choice to have the modular mission structure and really, they can't win -- Had they not done it the single player would've been a lot more underwhelming gameplay wise and have a whole lot less replay value while doing it does cost you some narrative experience I guess. nope. Let me illustrate. Throughout the entire game, you fight the Tal'Darim on Five Separate occasions. In the first game, you fight the Confederacy on five separate occasions. On a narrative level, the Tal'Darim should be at least close to the level of development given to the Confederacy. We should know their motives (remember, Ulrejaz is dead, so its unknown), we should have a reason to fight them beyond stealing their stuff. We should feel like they are an interesting and developed faction we wish to know more about. Was this accomplished? You literally cannot argue yes, because the only dialogue ever present for five missions that developed this plotline were threads uttered by an anonymous purplish looking. This would be the equivalent of playing half of a campaign in Starcraft 1 and not having a single interesting antagonist. The vast majority of missions are fillers. The narrative pacing was awful. The writing, which shouldn't have been awful, becomes awful because it is allowed to stand in a vacuum. Blizzard writing can't stand in a vacuum. This has absolutely nothing to do with the non-linear structure, just poor narratives. OP, I can empathize with your frustration and what you're trying to do. I feel like its a bit misguided though. I'd recommend summarizing your points into bulletins and posting on the blizzforums. In addition, you should change your tone. Not that I had a problem with it, but generally developers hate being lectured on how to do their jobs by fans. It should be worded as criticism or suggestion, not "here is my dissertation on how to construct a proper video game narrative". You have a lot of good ideas there. But theirs also too much "mental masturbation" for it to be taken seriously by anyone who gathers feedback. Just be concise and levies criticism with the campaign. Again youre opinion,i can argue all of it,Like Raynor having no reason to steal theyre stuff...... Gee lets see on one side we have nonsensical fanatics,that believe the Artifacts belong to Gods,who were just a race themselves,not gods,the civilized protoss know this,so theyre not worshiping the artifact,instead just cherish them as a relic of the past(witch if they knew what it was capable of thyd also use it,hence the"If only we had known"),instead thise guys kill people on sight if they land on the planet,because the think theyre defilers..... And on the other side we have Raynor fighting for a very real cause,freedom for the people from theyre oppressive regime,hes lacking badly in funds and is ready to give up..... WHo has more right here?
That isn't an opinion. Its an objective fact. I'm not kidding.
Saying "The Confederacy was more heavily explored and developed the the Tal'Darim", in this case, is a fact because the discrepancy is so severe.
Also your punctuation and grammer are so bad I gave up trying to read it half way through. Sorry.
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On August 04 2010 06:58 mkfk1 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2010 06:44 DocSnyder wrote:On August 04 2010 06:33 mkfk1 wrote:
I bet this DocSnyder guy works for blizzard or some hardcore blizzard fan boy or something.
Thats not true,im actually on a salary,oh and Blizzards is trying to assume control of the world and make people like sc2s plot,so we can band and fight the hybrids together..... Blizzard is indeed trying to exert control. Everything from e-sports, to b-net 2.0 regulation, to map publishing, to selling 3 games because "there are too much story to fit into one", and now we have WOL where more than half of the missions are fucking fillers. And yes, we will all fight the hybrid on the 3rd or even 4th expansions to protect the world tree...I mean the K- sector. Who knows, maybe the UED will sent a 2nd fleet with fillers to collect minerals and artifacts for a 5th expansion. Blizzard if you are reading this, I want half my money back, because you sold me half a game.
Yeah and i want my youth back,oh and cookies.....
U kidding me with this,now people are making demands and threats at Blizz,LOL
Jesus frigging christ,they didnt force you to buy the game...cant stop lathing................. . . . . .
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On August 04 2010 06:52 Half wrote:Show nested quote +it's that every single facet of the story was absolutely pathetic and the writers of this shit should've been fired. There wasn't one even remotely deep character throughout the entire thing and the story reeks of cliches and rip-offs from their own games, not to mention basically throwing everything from BW straight out the window. Really video game writers tend to work pretty differently then say, script writers for TV shows or Hollywood. Their going to be working heavily with the cinematic and level design teams, and chances are the story was constructed in a pretty incoherent and disjointed order to begin with. Saying "the writing sucks fire the writers" is not necessarily fair, generally the issues with WoL could have happened not just from the writing department. Generally from my (admittedly small) pool of knowledge and experience all kinds of dumb stuff can happen. Cinematics can be made before writers even know what they're for, etc. Directors are going to have a solid script their going to follow 99.9% of the time. Video games have that maybe .1% of the time. If a TVs shows writing is horrible, firing the writers may be appropriate. 90% of the time its their fault. With video games, its more like 40%.
Yes video games work differently but when the writing is this terrible, someone deserves to get smacked for it. I mean really. This has got to be one of the worst story lines to come out of a video game in the past decade.
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I actually liked the overarching plot. My really big gripe is about the optional missions. I hated them. That structure dragged down the story.
It would be one thing if the player was given a choice between which of two missions to complete first but the player had to complete both of them before advancing further in the story. It's another thing to have missions that are completely optional and have the game assume that the player never completed them.
I could understand if the Haven and Tosh arcs were left optional. But the game shouldn't have allowed the player to continue to Char without first completing the Zeratul and Horner arcs. The story assumed that only the Tychus arc was completed, which made the last arc have too many bad plot holes.
The ending was way too short, too. There were just way too much loose ends that they should've had a long cinematic and some more lines of text to explain things. We don't even have a good bridge to the next expansion.
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On August 04 2010 07:03 Half wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2010 06:59 DocSnyder wrote:On August 04 2010 06:33 Half wrote:
Look above all,and i repeat myself,IT IS A GAME,and Blizz wanted Player to have freedom to approach each mission the way they wanted,and in a game like starcraft,the available units and tech u have,make for a immensely different experience...........thats the only reason the story was approached at a none linear angle for the majority of the game...
what i believe is brilliance,that all these plotlines,can be taken at any order an yet they still somehow influence the ending,NOT DIRECTLY SPELLING IT OUT FOR U......because then blizz would have to say this happened first and this second............and that mean no gameplay choice,each mission is stuck at the same order always....no diff tech,no diff units> no replayabily...
First of all, calm the hell down. You know what they say right? Its usually those who shout the loudest who know the least. Step back away from the computer, do a little stretch, and sit down. You'll feel much better. Usually bad writing in can't be objectively judged too well. In Starcraft 2, the entire design behind the writing was so gawdaweful it actually can. Eh, this whole discussion really boils down the Blizzard's choice to have the modular mission structure and really, they can't win -- Had they not done it the single player would've been a lot more underwhelming gameplay wise and have a whole lot less replay value while doing it does cost you some narrative experience I guess. nope. Let me illustrate. Throughout the entire game, you fight the Tal'Darim on Five Separate occasions. In the first game, you fight the Confederacy on five separate occasions. On a narrative level, the Tal'Darim should be at least close to the level of development given to the Confederacy. We should know their motives (remember, Ulrejaz is dead, so its unknown), we should have a reason to fight them beyond stealing their stuff. We should feel like they are an interesting and developed faction we wish to know more about. Was this accomplished? You literally cannot argue yes, because the only dialogue ever present for five missions that developed this plotline were threads uttered by an anonymous purplish looking. This would be the equivalent of playing half of a campaign in Starcraft 1 and not having a single interesting antagonist. The vast majority of missions are fillers. The narrative pacing was awful. The writing, which shouldn't have been awful, becomes awful because it is allowed to stand in a vacuum. Blizzard writing can't stand in a vacuum. This has absolutely nothing to do with the non-linear structure, just poor narratives. OP, I can empathize with your frustration and what you're trying to do. I feel like its a bit misguided though. I'd recommend summarizing your points into bulletins and posting on the blizzforums. In addition, you should change your tone. Not that I had a problem with it, but generally developers hate being lectured on how to do their jobs by fans. It should be worded as criticism or suggestion, not "here is my dissertation on how to construct a proper video game narrative". You have a lot of good ideas there. But theirs also too much "mental masturbation" for it to be taken seriously by anyone who gathers feedback. Just be concise and levies criticism with the campaign. Again youre opinion,i can argue all of it,Like Raynor having no reason to steal theyre stuff...... Gee lets see on one side we have nonsensical fanatics,that believe the Artifacts belong to Gods,who were just a race themselves,not gods,the civilized protoss know this,so theyre not worshiping the artifact,instead just cherish them as a relic of the past(witch if they knew what it was capable of thyd also use it,hence the"If only we had known"),instead thise guys kill people on sight if they land on the planet,because the think theyre defilers..... And on the other side we have Raynor fighting for a very real cause,freedom for the people from theyre oppressive regime,hes lacking badly in funds and is ready to give up..... WHo has more right here? That isn't an opinion. Its an objective fact. I'm not kidding. Saying "The Confederacy was more heavily explored and developed the the Tal'Darim", in this case, is a fact because the discrepancy is so severe. Also your punctuation and grammer are so bad I gave up trying to read it half way through. Sorry.
Sorry about that,its not my native language,and you do have a point,the Confederacy was explored at grater detail,still the fact is there but youre point is still false.....
Just because the Confederacy was more interesting,as an obstacle,the reason for the conflict are there in both cases.....Its your own preference,not fact and no need to get personal......childish forums...
The fact is nothing i say will ever convince you the story was good,aswell as you convincing me it god awful .....
I actually liked the overarching plot. My really big gripe is about the optional missions. I hated them. That structure dragged down the story.
It would be one thing if the player was given a choice between which of two missions to complete first but the player had to complete both of them before advancing further in the story. It's another thing to have missions that are completely optional and have the game assume that the player never completed them.
I could understand if the Haven and Tosh arcs were left optional. But the game shouldn't have allowed the player to continue to Char without first completing the Zeratul and Horner arcs. The story assumed that only the Tychus arc was completed, which made the last arc have too many bad plot holes.
The ending was way too short, too. There were just way too much loose ends that they should've had a long cinematic and some more lines of text to explain things. We don't even have a good bridge to the next expansion.
Have to agree there at least partially,the ending could have been abit longer to tie everything up.....still the more question we have the more well want to have the next installment..marketing ploy....Its comes from taking the story and splitting it up a 2 years before release as to amount to 3 separate products.......There were overall a lot less CGI than,i would have expected....they covered alot with the Ingame cinemas.....
At least,now that they know what they are after,the plot of the other 2 will be better fleshed out to avoid confusion..
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On August 04 2010 07:04 DocSnyder wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2010 06:58 mkfk1 wrote:On August 04 2010 06:44 DocSnyder wrote:On August 04 2010 06:33 mkfk1 wrote:
I bet this DocSnyder guy works for blizzard or some hardcore blizzard fan boy or something.
Thats not true,im actually on a salary,oh and Blizzards is trying to assume control of the world and make people like sc2s plot,so we can band and fight the hybrids together..... Blizzard is indeed trying to exert control. Everything from e-sports, to b-net 2.0 regulation, to map publishing, to selling 3 games because "there are too much story to fit into one", and now we have WOL where more than half of the missions are fucking fillers. And yes, we will all fight the hybrid on the 3rd or even 4th expansions to protect the world tree...I mean the K- sector. Who knows, maybe the UED will sent a 2nd fleet with fillers to collect minerals and artifacts for a 5th expansion. Blizzard if you are reading this, I want half my money back, because you sold me half a game. Yeah and i want my youth back,oh and cookies..... U kidding me with this,now people are making demands and threats at Blizz,LOL Jesus frigging christ,they didnt force you to buy the game...cant stop lathing................. . . . . .
No, but they make a bad single player, and over hyped it with false advertisement such as their panel at blizzcon about "so much story that it cant fit into one game". What a load of bull crap.
I will definitely pirate their expansion next time before making a decision buying. At least I am a smart consumer, unlike you who happen to be a brainless blizzard fan boy.
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On August 04 2010 07:13 mkfk1 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2010 07:04 DocSnyder wrote:On August 04 2010 06:58 mkfk1 wrote:On August 04 2010 06:44 DocSnyder wrote:On August 04 2010 06:33 mkfk1 wrote:
I bet this DocSnyder guy works for blizzard or some hardcore blizzard fan boy or something.
Thats not true,im actually on a salary,oh and Blizzards is trying to assume control of the world and make people like sc2s plot,so we can band and fight the hybrids together..... Blizzard is indeed trying to exert control. Everything from e-sports, to b-net 2.0 regulation, to map publishing, to selling 3 games because "there are too much story to fit into one", and now we have WOL where more than half of the missions are fucking fillers. And yes, we will all fight the hybrid on the 3rd or even 4th expansions to protect the world tree...I mean the K- sector. Who knows, maybe the UED will sent a 2nd fleet with fillers to collect minerals and artifacts for a 5th expansion. Blizzard if you are reading this, I want half my money back, because you sold me half a game. Yeah and i want my youth back,oh and cookies..... U kidding me with this,now people are making demands and threats at Blizz,LOL Jesus frigging christ,they didnt force you to buy the game...cant stop lathing................. . . . . . No, but they make a bad single player, and over hyped it with false advertisement such as their panel at blizzcon about "so much story that it cant fit into one game". What a load of bull crap. I will definitely pirate their expansion next time before making a decision buying. At least I am a smart consumer, unlike you who happen to be a brainless blizzard fan boy.
Again getting personal,how old are you people 12.......,,,damn its my way or the high way,,,oh and pirating makes you a smart consumer.
Damn ive pirated plenty of things in my day,but ive never thought i was a smart consumer.Tisk,tisk,tisk kids these days have no manners
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On August 04 2010 07:25 DocSnyder wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2010 07:13 mkfk1 wrote:On August 04 2010 07:04 DocSnyder wrote:On August 04 2010 06:58 mkfk1 wrote:On August 04 2010 06:44 DocSnyder wrote:On August 04 2010 06:33 mkfk1 wrote:
I bet this DocSnyder guy works for blizzard or some hardcore blizzard fan boy or something.
Thats not true,im actually on a salary,oh and Blizzards is trying to assume control of the world and make people like sc2s plot,so we can band and fight the hybrids together..... Blizzard is indeed trying to exert control. Everything from e-sports, to b-net 2.0 regulation, to map publishing, to selling 3 games because "there are too much story to fit into one", and now we have WOL where more than half of the missions are fucking fillers. And yes, we will all fight the hybrid on the 3rd or even 4th expansions to protect the world tree...I mean the K- sector. Who knows, maybe the UED will sent a 2nd fleet with fillers to collect minerals and artifacts for a 5th expansion. Blizzard if you are reading this, I want half my money back, because you sold me half a game. Yeah and i want my youth back,oh and cookies..... U kidding me with this,now people are making demands and threats at Blizz,LOL Jesus frigging christ,they didnt force you to buy the game...cant stop lathing................. . . . . . No, but they make a bad single player, and over hyped it with false advertisement such as their panel at blizzcon about "so much story that it cant fit into one game". What a load of bull crap. I will definitely pirate their expansion next time before making a decision buying. At least I am a smart consumer, unlike you who happen to be a brainless blizzard fan boy. Again getting personal,how old are you people 12.......,,,damn its my way or the high way,,,oh and pirating makes you a smart consumer. Damn ive pirated plenty of things in my day,but ive never thought i was a smart consumer.Tisk,tisk,tisk kids these days have no manners
Looking at this thread, people will most likely consider you as the stupid kid in here. Only you who try to yell at other people for not agreeing with you.
As it has been shown in many single player reviews on TL, most of the people hate the single player story aspect. And on the Internet, there will always be kids like you who try to argue his way to try to spin the reality.
Even if you want to defend the single player, you should at least make some effort. Your arguments were weak as hell.
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On August 04 2010 07:30 mkfk1 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2010 07:25 DocSnyder wrote:On August 04 2010 07:13 mkfk1 wrote:On August 04 2010 07:04 DocSnyder wrote:On August 04 2010 06:58 mkfk1 wrote:On August 04 2010 06:44 DocSnyder wrote:On August 04 2010 06:33 mkfk1 wrote:
I bet this DocSnyder guy works for blizzard or some hardcore blizzard fan boy or something.
Thats not true,im actually on a salary,oh and Blizzards is trying to assume control of the world and make people like sc2s plot,so we can band and fight the hybrids together..... Blizzard is indeed trying to exert control. Everything from e-sports, to b-net 2.0 regulation, to map publishing, to selling 3 games because "there are too much story to fit into one", and now we have WOL where more than half of the missions are fucking fillers. And yes, we will all fight the hybrid on the 3rd or even 4th expansions to protect the world tree...I mean the K- sector. Who knows, maybe the UED will sent a 2nd fleet with fillers to collect minerals and artifacts for a 5th expansion. Blizzard if you are reading this, I want half my money back, because you sold me half a game. Yeah and i want my youth back,oh and cookies..... U kidding me with this,now people are making demands and threats at Blizz,LOL Jesus frigging christ,they didnt force you to buy the game...cant stop lathing................. . . . . . No, but they make a bad single player, and over hyped it with false advertisement such as their panel at blizzcon about "so much story that it cant fit into one game". What a load of bull crap. I will definitely pirate their expansion next time before making a decision buying. At least I am a smart consumer, unlike you who happen to be a brainless blizzard fan boy. Again getting personal,how old are you people 12.......,,,damn its my way or the high way,,,oh and pirating makes you a smart consumer. Damn ive pirated plenty of things in my day,but ive never thought i was a smart consumer.Tisk,tisk,tisk kids these days have no manners Looking at this thread, people will most likely consider you as the stupid kid in here. Only you who try to yell at other people for not agreeing with you. As it has been shown in many single player reviews on TL, most of the people hate the single player story aspect. And on the Internet, there will always be kids like you who try to argue his way to try to spin the reality. Even if you want to defend the single player, you should at least make some effort. Your arguments were weak as hell.
Oh please i give up,just dont care why you think and i dont want to convince anyone of anything....If youre insisting you got cheated by Blizz go cry to someone who cares,and i did make effort...
If you insist they were week,prove me wrong...instead of crying for your 60 bucks.....
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On August 04 2010 07:11 andrewlt wrote:
I actually liked the overarching plot. My really big gripe is about the optional missions. I hated them. That structure dragged down the story.
It would be one thing if the player was given a choice between which of two missions to complete first but the player had to complete both of them before advancing further in the story. It's another thing to have missions that are completely optional and have the game assume that the player never completed them.
I could understand if the Haven and Tosh arcs were left optional. But the game shouldn't have allowed the player to continue to Char without first completing the Zeratul and Horner arcs. The story assumed that only the Tychus arc was completed, which made the last arc have too many bad plot holes.
The ending was way too short, too. There were just way too much loose ends that they should've had a long cinematic and some more lines of text to explain things. We don't even have a good bridge to the next expansion.
Yeah I absolutely agree. Another aproach would have been if you could take the Tosh OR the Hanson subplot but then force you to finish whatever you took.
Cliffhangers are annoying but yeah, they could have used a lead in to HotS. I´d have imagined a "epiloge" Mission where Valerian wants to capture Kerrigan and Raynor has to escape with her. A bit like the last Mission of the very first Terran campaign.
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On August 04 2010 07:36 DocSnyder wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2010 07:30 mkfk1 wrote:On August 04 2010 07:25 DocSnyder wrote:On August 04 2010 07:13 mkfk1 wrote:On August 04 2010 07:04 DocSnyder wrote:On August 04 2010 06:58 mkfk1 wrote:On August 04 2010 06:44 DocSnyder wrote:On August 04 2010 06:33 mkfk1 wrote:
I bet this DocSnyder guy works for blizzard or some hardcore blizzard fan boy or something.
Thats not true,im actually on a salary,oh and Blizzards is trying to assume control of the world and make people like sc2s plot,so we can band and fight the hybrids together..... Blizzard is indeed trying to exert control. Everything from e-sports, to b-net 2.0 regulation, to map publishing, to selling 3 games because "there are too much story to fit into one", and now we have WOL where more than half of the missions are fucking fillers. And yes, we will all fight the hybrid on the 3rd or even 4th expansions to protect the world tree...I mean the K- sector. Who knows, maybe the UED will sent a 2nd fleet with fillers to collect minerals and artifacts for a 5th expansion. Blizzard if you are reading this, I want half my money back, because you sold me half a game. Yeah and i want my youth back,oh and cookies..... U kidding me with this,now people are making demands and threats at Blizz,LOL Jesus frigging christ,they didnt force you to buy the game...cant stop lathing................. . . . . . No, but they make a bad single player, and over hyped it with false advertisement such as their panel at blizzcon about "so much story that it cant fit into one game". What a load of bull crap. I will definitely pirate their expansion next time before making a decision buying. At least I am a smart consumer, unlike you who happen to be a brainless blizzard fan boy. Again getting personal,how old are you people 12.......,,,damn its my way or the high way,,,oh and pirating makes you a smart consumer. Damn ive pirated plenty of things in my day,but ive never thought i was a smart consumer.Tisk,tisk,tisk kids these days have no manners Looking at this thread, people will most likely consider you as the stupid kid in here. Only you who try to yell at other people for not agreeing with you. As it has been shown in many single player reviews on TL, most of the people hate the single player story aspect. And on the Internet, there will always be kids like you who try to argue his way to try to spin the reality. Even if you want to defend the single player, you should at least make some effort. Your arguments were weak as hell. Oh please i give up,just dont care why you think and i dont want to convince anyone of anything....If youre insisting you got cheated by Blizz go cry to someone who cares,and i did make effort... If you insist they were week,prove me wrong...instead of crying for your 60 bucks.....
Like wise, people in here dont care about your yelling and attempt to convince people that the single player story was great. The majority thinks it sucks, and I dont blame them.
And I pre order my for only 24.99 pounds. With today exchange rate, is about 35-40 dollars. I am happy with that actually. But that still doesnt cover the bad single player story line.
Well, time to hit b net for some 1v1 and UMS instead of talking to some german kid who will lick blizzard balls.
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On August 04 2010 07:46 mkfk1 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2010 07:36 DocSnyder wrote:On August 04 2010 07:30 mkfk1 wrote:On August 04 2010 07:25 DocSnyder wrote:On August 04 2010 07:13 mkfk1 wrote:On August 04 2010 07:04 DocSnyder wrote:On August 04 2010 06:58 mkfk1 wrote:On August 04 2010 06:44 DocSnyder wrote:On August 04 2010 06:33 mkfk1 wrote:
I bet this DocSnyder guy works for blizzard or some hardcore blizzard fan boy or something.
Thats not true,im actually on a salary,oh and Blizzards is trying to assume control of the world and make people like sc2s plot,so we can band and fight the hybrids together..... Blizzard is indeed trying to exert control. Everything from e-sports, to b-net 2.0 regulation, to map publishing, to selling 3 games because "there are too much story to fit into one", and now we have WOL where more than half of the missions are fucking fillers. And yes, we will all fight the hybrid on the 3rd or even 4th expansions to protect the world tree...I mean the K- sector. Who knows, maybe the UED will sent a 2nd fleet with fillers to collect minerals and artifacts for a 5th expansion. Blizzard if you are reading this, I want half my money back, because you sold me half a game. Yeah and i want my youth back,oh and cookies..... U kidding me with this,now people are making demands and threats at Blizz,LOL Jesus frigging christ,they didnt force you to buy the game...cant stop lathing................. . . . . . No, but they make a bad single player, and over hyped it with false advertisement such as their panel at blizzcon about "so much story that it cant fit into one game". What a load of bull crap. I will definitely pirate their expansion next time before making a decision buying. At least I am a smart consumer, unlike you who happen to be a brainless blizzard fan boy. Again getting personal,how old are you people 12.......,,,damn its my way or the high way,,,oh and pirating makes you a smart consumer. Damn ive pirated plenty of things in my day,but ive never thought i was a smart consumer.Tisk,tisk,tisk kids these days have no manners Looking at this thread, people will most likely consider you as the stupid kid in here. Only you who try to yell at other people for not agreeing with you. As it has been shown in many single player reviews on TL, most of the people hate the single player story aspect. And on the Internet, there will always be kids like you who try to argue his way to try to spin the reality. Even if you want to defend the single player, you should at least make some effort. Your arguments were weak as hell. Oh please i give up,just dont care why you think and i dont want to convince anyone of anything....If youre insisting you got cheated by Blizz go cry to someone who cares,and i did make effort... If you insist they were week,prove me wrong...instead of crying for your 60 bucks..... Like wise, people in here dont care about your yelling and attempt to convince people that the single player story was great. The majority thinks it sucks, and I dont blame them. And I pre order my for only 24.99 pounds. With today exchange rate, is about 35-40 dollars. I am happy with that actually. But that still doesnt cover the bad single player story line. Well, time to hit b net for some 1v1 and UMS instead of talking to some german kid who will lick blizzard balls.
My god ,If had you here id beat the crap out of you...,so me having a different opinion means you got to insult me,i think the storys good,you - its god awful,doesnt give you the right to insult me,i didnt try to convince anyone of anything nor do i care,i just wanted to discuss......and i didnt insult people for not agreeing,the only one who acts like a stupid kid is you,trashing me with every......what makes you think you know anything about anything u brainless dushe...
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On August 03 2010 09:21 Bibdy wrote:
I'd write the story first, then build a campaign formula around it, not the other way around. Its just obvious. They wanted a campaign where the player runs around gathering units and technologies. How do we motivate Raynor into doing this? Eh, let's just say the rebellion isn't going well and give them 20 side-quests to unlock whatever units they like and then we'll get to the meat and bones of the story. What's the story again? I dunno, I guess we'll need a way to get the Zerg to do a similar thing in the next expansion. How do we do that? How do they forget what they've evolved? The player would have to start out with Zerglings and Roaches and then get better stuff. Oh, I know! What if we cure Kerrigan, so she starts working with Raynor & Co. and then she has to run around the galaxy picking up new Zerg strains to add to her arsenal and get into some big confrontation with Mengsk to finish it off? Brilliant! And then Zeratul can start off with Zealots and Stalkers and rush around the galaxy gathering Protoss tribes and technology for the final confrontation. Oh man, we're good.
Oh God this. I didn't even think about the fact that they might revert us back to tier 1 in Heart of the Swarm and Legacy of the Void, just for the sake of the new kids on the block to learn what a zealot is.
Honestly, I thought it was poorly done. People play single player mainly for the story. (At least I do). Much less so for the gameplay, although thats obviously important. However, I could care less about all the units and cool technologies I garner during the course of the campaign, that lasts a maximum of 16 hours of game time. I would rather the story be tight and clean, multiplayer and custom games are where I get to mess around with awesome hardware.
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On August 04 2010 07:52 DocSnyder wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2010 07:46 mkfk1 wrote:On August 04 2010 07:36 DocSnyder wrote:On August 04 2010 07:30 mkfk1 wrote:On August 04 2010 07:25 DocSnyder wrote:On August 04 2010 07:13 mkfk1 wrote:On August 04 2010 07:04 DocSnyder wrote:On August 04 2010 06:58 mkfk1 wrote:On August 04 2010 06:44 DocSnyder wrote:On August 04 2010 06:33 mkfk1 wrote:
I bet this DocSnyder guy works for blizzard or some hardcore blizzard fan boy or something.
Thats not true,im actually on a salary,oh and Blizzards is trying to assume control of the world and make people like sc2s plot,so we can band and fight the hybrids together..... Blizzard is indeed trying to exert control. Everything from e-sports, to b-net 2.0 regulation, to map publishing, to selling 3 games because "there are too much story to fit into one", and now we have WOL where more than half of the missions are fucking fillers. And yes, we will all fight the hybrid on the 3rd or even 4th expansions to protect the world tree...I mean the K- sector. Who knows, maybe the UED will sent a 2nd fleet with fillers to collect minerals and artifacts for a 5th expansion. Blizzard if you are reading this, I want half my money back, because you sold me half a game. Yeah and i want my youth back,oh and cookies..... U kidding me with this,now people are making demands and threats at Blizz,LOL Jesus frigging christ,they didnt force you to buy the game...cant stop lathing................. . . . . . No, but they make a bad single player, and over hyped it with false advertisement such as their panel at blizzcon about "so much story that it cant fit into one game". What a load of bull crap. I will definitely pirate their expansion next time before making a decision buying. At least I am a smart consumer, unlike you who happen to be a brainless blizzard fan boy. Again getting personal,how old are you people 12.......,,,damn its my way or the high way,,,oh and pirating makes you a smart consumer. Damn ive pirated plenty of things in my day,but ive never thought i was a smart consumer.Tisk,tisk,tisk kids these days have no manners Looking at this thread, people will most likely consider you as the stupid kid in here. Only you who try to yell at other people for not agreeing with you. As it has been shown in many single player reviews on TL, most of the people hate the single player story aspect. And on the Internet, there will always be kids like you who try to argue his way to try to spin the reality. Even if you want to defend the single player, you should at least make some effort. Your arguments were weak as hell. Oh please i give up,just dont care why you think and i dont want to convince anyone of anything....If youre insisting you got cheated by Blizz go cry to someone who cares,and i did make effort... If you insist they were week,prove me wrong...instead of crying for your 60 bucks..... Like wise, people in here dont care about your yelling and attempt to convince people that the single player story was great. The majority thinks it sucks, and I dont blame them. And I pre order my for only 24.99 pounds. With today exchange rate, is about 35-40 dollars. I am happy with that actually. But that still doesnt cover the bad single player story line. Well, time to hit b net for some 1v1 and UMS instead of talking to some german kid who will lick blizzard balls. My god ,If had you here id beat the crap out of you...,so me having a different opinion means you got to insult me,i think the storys good,you - its god awful,doesnt give you the right to insult me,i didnt try to convince anyone of anything nor do i care,i just wanted to discuss......and i didnt insult people for not agreeing,the only one who acts like a stupid kid is you,trashing me with every......what makes you think you know anything about anything u brainless dushe...
Now now boy, dont get violent. The last time German try to fight, you guys ended up losing and separated into 2 countries for 50 years.
Go and vent out your anger at the single player and play it 500 more times, since you love it so much.
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On August 04 2010 07:58 mkfk1 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2010 07:52 DocSnyder wrote:On August 04 2010 07:46 mkfk1 wrote:On August 04 2010 07:36 DocSnyder wrote:On August 04 2010 07:30 mkfk1 wrote:On August 04 2010 07:25 DocSnyder wrote:On August 04 2010 07:13 mkfk1 wrote:On August 04 2010 07:04 DocSnyder wrote:On August 04 2010 06:58 mkfk1 wrote:On August 04 2010 06:44 DocSnyder wrote:
[quote]
Thats not true,im actually on a salary,oh and Blizzards is trying to assume control of the world and make people like sc2s plot,so we can band and fight the hybrids together..... Blizzard is indeed trying to exert control. Everything from e-sports, to b-net 2.0 regulation, to map publishing, to selling 3 games because "there are too much story to fit into one", and now we have WOL where more than half of the missions are fucking fillers. And yes, we will all fight the hybrid on the 3rd or even 4th expansions to protect the world tree...I mean the K- sector. Who knows, maybe the UED will sent a 2nd fleet with fillers to collect minerals and artifacts for a 5th expansion. Blizzard if you are reading this, I want half my money back, because you sold me half a game. Yeah and i want my youth back,oh and cookies..... U kidding me with this,now people are making demands and threats at Blizz,LOL Jesus frigging christ,they didnt force you to buy the game...cant stop lathing................. . . . . . No, but they make a bad single player, and over hyped it with false advertisement such as their panel at blizzcon about "so much story that it cant fit into one game". What a load of bull crap. I will definitely pirate their expansion next time before making a decision buying. At least I am a smart consumer, unlike you who happen to be a brainless blizzard fan boy. Again getting personal,how old are you people 12.......,,,damn its my way or the high way,,,oh and pirating makes you a smart consumer. Damn ive pirated plenty of things in my day,but ive never thought i was a smart consumer.Tisk,tisk,tisk kids these days have no manners Looking at this thread, people will most likely consider you as the stupid kid in here. Only you who try to yell at other people for not agreeing with you. As it has been shown in many single player reviews on TL, most of the people hate the single player story aspect. And on the Internet, there will always be kids like you who try to argue his way to try to spin the reality. Even if you want to defend the single player, you should at least make some effort. Your arguments were weak as hell. Oh please i give up,just dont care why you think and i dont want to convince anyone of anything....If youre insisting you got cheated by Blizz go cry to someone who cares,and i did make effort... If you insist they were week,prove me wrong...instead of crying for your 60 bucks..... Like wise, people in here dont care about your yelling and attempt to convince people that the single player story was great. The majority thinks it sucks, and I dont blame them. And I pre order my for only 24.99 pounds. With today exchange rate, is about 35-40 dollars. I am happy with that actually. But that still doesnt cover the bad single player story line. Well, time to hit b net for some 1v1 and UMS instead of talking to some german kid who will lick blizzard balls. My god ,If had you here id beat the crap out of you...,so me having a different opinion means you got to insult me,i think the storys good,you - its god awful,doesnt give you the right to insult me,i didnt try to convince anyone of anything nor do i care,i just wanted to discuss......and i didnt insult people for not agreeing,the only one who acts like a stupid kid is you,trashing me with every......what makes you think you know anything about anything u brainless dushe... Now now boy, dont get violent. The last time German try to fight, you guys ended up losing and separated into 2 countries for 50 years. Go and vent out your anger at the single player and play it 500 more times, since you love it so much.
Oh man,u just love pushing my buttons dont you?
What happened to battle.net,why do you keep coming back,go and play the game,you hate so much.....oh just for arguments same insulting my country....Epic Fail...
FYI Im not german,i just live there.....so FU
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Let's see.. 3 campaigns, 10 missions each, where stuff happens in each of them, but only one game,
OR
1 Campaign with 30 missions, 10 missions that matter, 3 games and more minerals?
... Easy to see it's the same kind of decisions as many other things within this game.
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With regards to the article that was posted earlier (http://www.gameplaymonthly.com/reviewed-starcraft-ii-wings-of-liberty-singleplayer-only/), I think we can agree to disregard any body of writing that uses the phrase "such a penultimate game"- what's that even supposed to mean?
The writer goes on to claim that " In game chat, too, is gone. Want to talk to your friend? You’ll have to buy a mic". That's just straight up wrong, maybe he misread something about chat rooms?
I sense an agenda somewhere there...
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On August 04 2010 05:17 alsowikk wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2010 13:07 Bronyaur wrote:
Actually I really disagree with this. Why was it her or him? He blocked Tychus's shot, surely he didn't have to shoot back? After all the trouble he goes through to help random people, he just shoots his old friend straight up? Couldn't he have disarmed him instead? He'll give the Queen of Blades a second chance but not Tychus? I thought that was ridiculous. I didn't even like Tychus that much, but I couldn't believe that happened. (my view)Tychus let Jim see the laser, so he probably wanted Jim to kill him. If he had died by the suit then it would have been very painfull(organs being crushed or shut down), but by letting Jim see what he had to do he was able to avoid a terrible death while letting Jim save Kerrigan. The Mobias foundation had the kill button so he had to help them(and the artifact worked pretty well)
That's an interesting view. I'll have to watch it again with that in mind, maybe I'll feel better about the ending.
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On August 04 2010 04:07 Atticus.axl wrote:
I agree with the OP. VA's were fine imo but the dialogue was horrible. (IE, Every spoken word from Kerrigan.) Side note on Kerrigan, I am sure am glad that she took the time to evolve high heels. Yep.
Kerrigan with hoof-like high heels shows the Overmind really knew his humans well. High heels equals more seductive behind/legs/gait. Sexual selection FTW. And you know the Overmind is all bout artificial evolution (nothing to do with algorithms).
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On August 04 2010 09:45 Oliwoli wrote:
With regards to the article that was posted earlier (http://www.gameplaymonthly.com/reviewed-starcraft-ii-wings-of-liberty-singleplayer-only/), I think we can agree to disregard any body of writing that uses the phrase "such a penultimate game"- what's that even supposed to mean?
My guess is he's saying the ending is riddled with cliffhangers, barely finishing any important parts of the story.
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On August 04 2010 07:09 Stratos_speAr wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2010 06:52 Half wrote:it's that every single facet of the story was absolutely pathetic and the writers of this shit should've been fired. There wasn't one even remotely deep character throughout the entire thing and the story reeks of cliches and rip-offs from their own games, not to mention basically throwing everything from BW straight out the window. Really video game writers tend to work pretty differently then say, script writers for TV shows or Hollywood. Their going to be working heavily with the cinematic and level design teams, and chances are the story was constructed in a pretty incoherent and disjointed order to begin with. Saying "the writing sucks fire the writers" is not necessarily fair, generally the issues with WoL could have happened not just from the writing department. Generally from my (admittedly small) pool of knowledge and experience all kinds of dumb stuff can happen. Cinematics can be made before writers even know what they're for, etc. Directors are going to have a solid script their going to follow 99.9% of the time. Video games have that maybe .1% of the time. If a TVs shows writing is horrible, firing the writers may be appropriate. 90% of the time its their fault. With video games, its more like 40%. Yes video games work differently but when the writing is this terrible, someone deserves to get smacked for it. I mean really. This has got to be one of the worst story lines to come out of a video game in the past decade.
You REALLY need to play more games. Go play Global Agenda...let me know how the 'storyline' is as well as MANY other games...if anything the last decade has had some of the worst storylines around or lacked any.
I personally liked the campaign. Comparing it to its equivalent of SC Vanilla terran campaign it easily beats it. It develops the characters, shows how they act and puts in twists here and there. and makes things fairly obvious as well.
Example:
Tychus - From the get go this guy is fishy because if you think of who is voicing the scene where he is 'freed', it starts off fishy(Mengsk...hmmm...). Then as it was said he shows up out of nowhere with this lame story of busting out of a prison ship during transfer. Then when you get the nice suit dialogue he dodges and avoids the question of who put the suit on him and why he can't get it off. Then you have him making the odd snide, and obviously bitter, comments about going to jail and Jim being free. Then you have him exclaim after engine of destruction(i think) that he got a taste of freedom and he doesn't want to let it go(foreshadowing anyone?). Then you find out that matt scanned his suit as matt still didn't feel comfortable with him and you find out that at the input of 1 code Tychus would be dead. Then you have the cantina brawl that started with some worried soldiers/crew of Jim's about their going to Char and a drunk Tychus stands up and declares that Jim is a coward and when things get hairy he will abandon them(more bitterness to taking the fall in the past) and then they get into a fight and you know how that goes. Then you have the end where Mengsk tells him he will be free if he kills Kerrigan and Tychus gives Jim a choice and then says in seemingly uncaring way 'that's too bad'(almost as if he wanted it this way) and yeah.
A fairly fleshed out character there, they explain the relation of Tychus to Jim without Jim doing some 'lonely monologue' or such and explain(though not obviously for obvious reason) why he did what he did. Nevermind you have the warnings from Tosh(a psychic remember) and general unease but due to how Jim is with trust and such he let's it pass with Tychus(and possibly as he feels guilty for the past).
The story is deeper than it may appear...they flesh out the characters but as its not a novel they must do so in a different manner...action, dialogue, other characters, etc. They also set up the sequal nicely as well as hybrid stuff...so it's known the dominion is involved and so is mengsk(he gave the kill order after all) but how well known it is or such is questionable due to the 'extermination' order on the hybrid research team or if the dominion will be SC2's UED and merely a tool for duran/the dark voice or what their exact role is. Same with kerrigan and that in itself brings to question the involvement of the dominion...as in zeratul's future the terran are dead as is kerrigan due to them(he never said exactly whom killed her or how she died or if its kerrigan the ghost or the queen of blades whom will save them). For a part 1/3 it set up the appropriate cliff hangers, established the characters, motives and brought to question the parties...they may not have written a shakespearean play or some epic story but they did a very good job with what they could do without closing off too much, revealing too much or going off on tangents(yes the side missions could be called this but they are still useful in establishing character and such).
Then again that's just my view. I liked SC2 more than the original SC vanilla terran campign because it has more depth, and makes me want to know more where as the vanilla campaign didn't make me want the next part right away or want to know where it leads as it didn't give a lot to go off of.
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I stopped reading when you said SC told its story well. Aside from the fact that its story is unimaginative garbage, I lost all respect for the campaign when, with a huge force in the zerg base, Tassadar flips shit and decides he has to kill himself while channelling the energy of his new dark templar friends along with his own through the hull of a galactic spaceship and subsequently steer it on a crash course with the already destroyed overmind.
great fucking storytelling blizz
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EPT
