Ok I did the Insane 2v1 , the 7 Insane FFA, the 1 Insane AI blitz but I can not defeat this 4 very hard AI. 4 very hard comp , 4v1 very hard , 4v1 comp
Part of the difficulty is the fact that the only map available to do it is the 3v3 map. (so 3 spawn far and 1 near while your base is wide open)
I can't/don't know if it is really possible to win this with Z or P. (since you need to cheese win 1 comp early on terran is the easiest and cheapest.) And I've been using 4 terran computers (maybe this is the downfall?) because their early units have the lowest hp (as well as ranged) vs my tanks and bunkers.
So the Build I have been doing is:
10 proxy rax 11 depot 12 marine, scv, bunker near their gas/minerals (the comp is dumb and keeps sending replacement workers to the gas). 13 Orbital Refinery asap (keep producing marines and scv nonstop now) another refinery depot (keep making depots when you get within 2 supply of cap) factory asap Tech lab asap Siege mode and tank asap 3 bunkers near your CC (scv to repair) salvage the cheese bunker send marines to home bunkers Another factory/techlab Expand Starport Vikings Ebay Turrets
And that is as far as I've gotten so far after like 20 tries or something ridiculous.
The waves of attacks are somewhat random but for the most part its just a huge MnM that attacks right when you get tanks. Occasionally one comp will reaper rush and this is gg as far as I can tell. Occasionally the comps will send marines early in waves of 2 (so like 4-6)
After the huge ball attack, if you manage to survive without losing too much they may retreat cutting losses and re attack in a few minutes (possibly with medivacs)
The next attack is banshees (harassing my expo), eventually cloak.
Then another massive MnM ball with medivacs.
Anyone beat this one yet? What was your race/strat? What comps did you use? Did you use the FFA map?
PS- Does anyone else find it annoying as hell to have to set the mode (sometiimes custom/sometimes melee) every game? Also there is no restart button when vs comps like there was in BW which would avoid that whole problem above.
On July 11 2010 10:47 Boblion wrote: What is your bo vs 2 insanes ?
I believe it was 13pool speedling vs 2 toss on LT. Then I just ran harassing back and forth between them while they chase me.
btw, I was streaming all of this and am still after my sandwich.
edit- While I'm at it I might as well tell my FFA build. 7 Terran me Zerg. 15pool max out drones, right when pool finishes make 2 spines and queen 2 drones overlord extractor drone couple more spines extractor and just make spines and drones try to keep at least 15 drones on minerals at all times Lair asap spire asap You should have like 8 or so spines in a line on 1 angle of your base
Mass up muta til you have like 7 then try and harass whoever is winning (kill marines, turrets, medivacs, scv, command center) keep making muta and drones, try and expand with extra mins (need gas asap). possibly shit creep/tumor some of your spines to finish off a comp.
Also, I dunno if this is vital or not but when the comps GG I hit NO. I think they fight to the death this way but at the least their structures all must be killed wasting other comps time.
So basically what happens, is all the comps kill each other, but 1 on each side is king. You need to muta rape these 2 and if possible coax them to fight instead of attacking you.
Insane AI blitz was easy as well, just 9pool speedling rush vs terran.
For some reason insane AI don't (usually) send guys to deal with proxy cannon rushes. So i cannon rushed the 2 insane AI on twilight fortress. I also just cannon rushed 3 very hard computers, the last computer had commitment issues and keep engaging and retreating when he could of killed my cannons. a cannon rush on 4 very hard computers didn't seem plausible on the current maps so i haven't tried anything, i'm sure on release you will be able to ridiculous map exploitation with more maps available so i was banking success on that
On July 11 2010 12:05 Cheesy_George wrote: For some reason insane AI don't (usually) send guys to deal with proxy cannon rushes. So i cannon rushed the 2 insane AI on twilight fortress. I also just cannon rushed 3 very hard computers, the last computer had commitment issues and keep engaging and retreating when he could of killed my cannons. a cannon rush on 4 very hard computers didn't seem plausible on the current maps so i haven't tried anything, i'm sure on release you will be able to ridiculous map exploitation with more maps available so i was banking success on that
When I tried canon rushing I found that the comp would attack the proxy pylon or probe after a certain time. They did this every time, you could exploit it by making them chase the probe around. But it's still hard to canon rush one, and then the others are just going to walk into you
I used 6 player map, pseudo canon rushed close comp, just kept massing canons there. After about 6-8 I FEd and kept massing canons and probes and chronos. Then I nexus between the rocks and keep massing cannons.
Once I had like 60-70 probes and a huge pile of canons I started to get my mass collosus and carrier with mofo ship.
Figured I'd chime in with my so far undefeated technique for beating lots of AI. So far I've used this for the insane FFA and the 1v3 very hard AI, but it's probably going to work for the 1v4 VH and the 1v2 insane:
1) Pick Extinction (yes 4v4 map) 2) Pick Terran 3) Make opponents Zerg 4) Scoop SCVs and float to a semi-island 5) Expand to proper islands 6) Build tanks and turrets 7) Build 3/3 BCs 8) ????? 9) Achievements!
tried doing the 3 very hard AI with Z vs Z (which would be possible I think) on Twilight Fort Novice. But I had enough of this shit and just did the same strat as the one I used on 4v1 VH AI.
Hmmm, that replay doesn't work I've been trying it multiple ways, such as getting tanks on pseudo-island on Extinction then transitioning into BC's, as well as cannon rushing 4 of them.
I'm not sure if i'm subtely triggering something in the AI that makes them eff me up, but they go a lot of immortals and just run my cannons into the ground after i eliminate 2 players. (the last 2 have immortals and gg me)
I do the Extinction liftoff strategy but into the proper island (if I go semi-island there seems to be 15 roaches shooting down the rocks by the time I have 1 marauder out) and dropping tanks on the high ground patches near the enemy bases. From there I just take a semi-island with tank cover and mass tank/thor and run over anything that remains. Works 1v4 very hard and 1v2 insane just as well.
Build order goes something along the lines of 10rax 11gas(x2) just getting the factory with tech lab and starport out as soon as possible. Don't really know the optimal order since I don't play T.
I did terran liftoff on expansion, build turrets and siege tanks, move tanks to expansion (with rocks), build turrets there THEN build command center as the AI will only attack if you have a center there for some reason.. then save all your money for 12 battlecrusiers
You can also build 1-2 ghosts academy and nukes if the AI is too agressive on your rock expansion before you have battlecrusiers
Then it's a waiting game, making the AI outmine the whole map while your tanks racks up 500+ kills
When you feel safe move out with battlecrusiers and a raven for creep tumor detection and clean up
Just did it. Extinction (8p map), PvZZZZ. Did quick tech to warp prism while pumping zealots not to get zergling rushed (4 seemed like enough). Mass roaches come to kill base around the time prisms come out. Grab all the workers you can save, and expand to both corner islands, cannon up walls edges (about 1 unit away from edge seems to keep them alive while attacking nearby roaches/hydras). Then go mass void rays. I waited until 200/200 fully upgraded but can most likely be done sooner.
Did it on my 1st try (all outmatched took bout 40 mins).
Choose maps where the AI spawns close together. I choose to be P vs 4 T. go into the middle so its equally far from all bases then throw down a pylon and then a forge. Now is about the time when the AI reacts and sends a horde of scvs against you(at least it did with insane, VH comp didnt here and I think its because he "scouted" it late). Just micro around and throw down a cannon. Eventually the scvs will back off and you just keep building cannons.
I rushed with my first probe at 6 and while he was travelling built 4 more. I had to finnish off the last computer with some zealots.
I did 1v4 very AI for this achievement, you can use the megaton map. Send a probe immediately, build the pylon outside the natural near the ramp so it's tucked so it powers onto the ledge where the AI's minerals/etc are.
Build a forge in this location immediately, at 10 supply, make 2 probes ( chrono them if you'd like).
Then move the probe up onto the platform and drop a cannon then quickly another ( you're going to be cutting all probe production with maybe erratic probe production chronoboosted)
Slowly move out building a pylon then 2 cannons near it in a way that if a zealot tries and kills them itll get hit by another cannon. move your way toward the middle then branching out.
In these pictures I made a pylon instead of 2 cannons then I made a cannon and a 2nd cannon shortly there after, I'd heavily suggest 2 cannon's then the pylon, make erratic probes ( not a lot ).
The AI will go insane, want to attack the pylons then pull back. ( suggested to do this against 4 protoss )
The cannon strat seems to work, and all 4 A.I surrendered, but I'm not getting any achievements. I went to Single Player -> Play vs. A.I -> Megaton -> 4vs4 and put all A.I Very Hard on Team 2 and me only on Team 1.
Is there something I'm missing here? Do you have to create it via the MP lobby for it to count?
EDIT: I can confirm that you have to start the game via the Multiplayer Custom game section, it cannot be done as a Single Player Custom game. Just did it and got my achievements.
I've got the Outmatched acheives but having a problem with the FFA and since a bunch of you are talking about having the achievement in here, I'll ask a quick question, and apologise for being OT at the outset:
Are there any special conditions for getting the "Win a FFA against 7 Insane AI" achievement?
I've been loading up a custom game (using the map "Abyss") from the Multiplayer menu, setting it to FFA, adding the 7 AI players and changing all their difficulty to Insane AI, winning the FFA but not getting the acheivement. Is there something I'm missing here?
On August 02 2010 13:07 Brett wrote: I've got the Outmatched acheives but having a problem with the FFA and since a bunch of you are talking about having the achievement in here, I'll ask a quick question, and apologise for being OT at the outset:
Are there any special conditions for getting the "Win a FFA against 7 Insane AI" achievement?
I've been loading up a custom game (using the map "Abyss") from the Multiplayer menu, setting it to FFA, adding the 7 AI players and changing all their difficulty to Insane AI, winning the FFA but not getting the acheivement. Is there something I'm missing here?
That sounds like exactly what you should be doing... are you changing their handicap or anything?
If you want to do a lift off strategy then choose the new 8 player lava one where the island has 2 expansions.
Personally I just went P vs. 4xP very hard on extinction. I cannon rushed two of them. Make sure to be efficient. I think I built 3 cannons total, the first one was in range of the nexus and disabled the first computer and the second two took out a second computer in similar fashion. Then I rushed a warp prism and expanded on the island behind me. When I still had my cyber core up (the remaining two computers were on there way to my main after dealing with the cannons), I made sure to build a stargate at the island. I then slowly made void rays. From here on out it's all based on how well you can keep the computers busy with your void rays. Do hit and run on any building or probe and they will try to chase down your rays.
If they're busy enough you can pretty much do anything you want. The main problem is that the computers take 4 or 5 bases and are so rich they can remake entire expansions even if you chain kill them. This could be a blessing since there's never a shortage of targets on the map to hit and harass.
protoss tower rush 4 terran on megaton; just place your initial pylon & forge where they don't scv rush you.. then just build out-- your first few cannons won't really be in range of anything, but will pick off random shit.
wtf, I did this and the 1v7 insane AI shit and I got achievements for neither what the hell. Is it cause I chose single player vs AI rather than multiplayer custom game or why am I just wasting my fuckin time here?
all you have to do is cannon rush. the computers will all rush to defend their allies and die to mass cannons. then mass expand and build mass carriers. easy wins
On August 05 2010 15:10 7mk wrote: wtf, I did this and the 1v7 insane AI shit and I got achievements for neither what the hell. Is it cause I chose single player vs AI rather than multiplayer custom game or why am I just wasting my fuckin time here?
you have to do it in a multiplayer custom game or it wont count. can't do it in single player vs ai.
Very easy as Protoss on Extinction against 4 zergs. Do a quick tech to warp prisms while powering probes; the prism will come out just in time for their first roach push. Have all probes hotkeyed and run them away while the prism ferries 8 at a time to the island, where you should immediately drop a nexus and pylons, then take one probe to the other island at the opposite end of the map. Get a forge up ASAP and cannon up the 2nd island, throwing down a few at the first as well. By the time they are trying to do drops, you should have a solid mass of cannons and a few void rays on the way (get 5 stargates on the island by their base). From there, just mass and upgrade void rays and take a third at one of the rock-blocked islands. 200 food of VRs and a mommaship will be able to faceroll their bases, then it's just cleanup.
I don't recommend trying this on the Lava map, as there's much more space to defend, and you don't have the advantage of being able to mass your army a stone-throw from their bases.
If you do the 1v4 Very Hard one, will you get all the 1v2, 1v3, 1v4 for Normal, Hard and Very Hard as well, or do you have to do all of them seperately?
On August 05 2010 15:10 7mk wrote: wtf, I did this and the 1v7 insane AI shit and I got achievements for neither what the hell. Is it cause I chose single player vs AI rather than multiplayer custom game or why am I just wasting my fuckin time here?
you have to do it in a multiplayer custom game or it wont count. can't do it in single player vs ai.
ugh I wish I had known that T_T
thx tho! now I got something to do again if I dont wanna ladder/no friends are online
On August 06 2010 13:23 anilusion wrote: If you do the 1v4 Very Hard one, will you get all the 1v2, 1v3, 1v4 for Normal, Hard and Very Hard as well, or do you have to do all of them seperately?
youll get 1v4 for lower difficulties, not for 1v2 or 1v3 though
1v4 on extinction, protoss vs 4 terrans is how I did it. (Cannon rush; you'll have to learn where u can place ur initial stuff without having their scvs aggro. Then quickly expand ur cannons closer to their mineral lines. You can aggro their marines and scvs by using right clicks with ur probe and other tricks to make them run into your cannons. Took like 5 tries but nothing particularly difficult after u learn how they behave.
On August 08 2010 00:42 Mikami_ wrote: I've tried countless times now, i can't pull it off !
Please tell me what am i doing wrong. Should i be more aggressive ?
Replay : [url blocked]
haha thats very cute of you to say "gg" at the end. I dont get why you completele stop any probe production after the 9th probe. I think your main mistake was that you left the bottom two terrans completely unharmed for way too long. They could just mass up marine marauder without you shooting anything with your cannons. Also position your cannons in such a way that the MMs cant just take out one cannon without any of the other cannons shooting them. should have placed the bottom ones in a more diagonal way. Top was taken care of btw. if you manage to harass the bottom the same way, youll win, just try it a few times more, I lost the first time too.
Yup, it's all about that first pylon. Whichever color is rushing you, place it just a shade farther away from their base. I only put my pylon far enough inside the top of the ramp for the forge and worked out from there, trying to engage as many armies as possible. Finally got it after about 10-12 tries.
On August 14 2010 12:18 Darkalbino wrote: how do you get the probes/drones/scvs not to attack you? for some reason mine agro
Yea, you can't really cannon rush against 4 terran/protoss AI anymore. I think blizzard may've tweaked how the AI reacts to it. The only AI I was able to cannon rush was Zerg, and since you can't build on creep, that's a little trixy.
I ended up forcing the AI to focus all their attention on a large cluster of cannons (built in the center of their shared base on megaton) while I built up some immortals to deal with mass roach and buildings that my cannons couldn't reach. I had to tell my cannons to focus fire each individual roach during their first couple waves, but after I crippled a couple of them by taking out tech structures the rest went pretty well.
On August 14 2010 12:18 Darkalbino wrote: how do you get the probes/drones/scvs not to attack you? for some reason mine agro
Yea, you can't really cannon rush against 4 terran/protoss AI anymore. I think blizzard may've tweaked how the AI reacts to it. The only AI I was able to cannon rush was Zerg, and since you can't build on creep, that's a little trixy.
I ended up forcing the AI to focus all their attention on a large cluster of cannons (built in the center of their shared base on megaton) while I built up some immortals to deal with mass roach and buildings that my cannons couldn't reach. I had to tell my cannons to focus fire each individual roach during their first couple waves, but after I crippled a couple of them by taking out tech structures the rest went pretty well.
You can still do it on megaton unless they fixed it in the last two days. It took me about 6-7 goes to get it right even after watching the replays posted in this thread, It's not just position but it also depends on where the AIs decided to build their initial pylons/gateways, if your pylon is within a certain distance of their buildings then the comp will see it as a threat and probe rush you.
It does seem harder. I was completely unable to do a cannon rush with a pylon inside the base, so I dropped a pylon on the underside of the ridge w/ a forge cannon and then built one on top of the ridge and steadily moved forward.
Did it on Lava Flows as Protoss. I meant to pick Terran, but hey, whatever.
Went for fast forge and massed cannons at my ramp. It's important to note that the AI won't attack unless it has a good chance of winning the battle. If you only build 2-3 cannons, it will roll over them without hesitation. If you build 20-30, it won't even attack you until midgame.
After that I teched to Warp Prisms and took the double island expansion. There, I massed up ~20 carriers, parked them on the edge of my base with some photon cannon support, and once I had enough carriers I just rolled over the map starting with the AI's mains. Was really easy.
I did this on beta too with a slightly different tactic. Pick Extinction. Build ~10 scvs, don't bother with a supply depot. Once you have 400 minerals, send an scv to the AI's side of the map and build a command centre outside their normal attack paths. Once it's done, load the building scv into it and float it to the island expansion behind the AI's base. Now take a second scv from your main, and do the same with the island expansion at the opposite side of the AI's base. Pretty quickly you should have 3 command centres, one on each island and one on your initial spawn.
The AI will attack your main with roaches sooner or later. Load your scvs into the command centre and float it to somewhere out of sight. It's important that you remove the cc from sight because the AI will chase it indefinitely if you don't.
Now, the bases. It's very important that you build only scvs + tech buildings at your far away base. The close base (distance relative to the zerg bases) should mass tanks. I'm talking 12+ at each side. Your original main that should now be floating around aimlessly, can freely land on the raised expansions that are protected by destructible rocks. The AI won't attack these expansions unless it scouts them. As soon as you see an overlord near this cc, lift it off and move it, sacrificing some scvs.
After that, it's just a waiting game. If you don't build any units at your far island expansion, it will never get attacked. The AI will literally line up at your close expansion to be shot up by siege tanks. Build a few turrets to deal with overlord drops and then it's just a waiting game for the AI to run out of resources. The more you mine with your floating cc, the faster this will be.
I can confirm that 1 v 4 protoss v protoss is incredibly easy with the canon rush method. It works for all the outmatched achievements.
I just followed the video posted.. On Very Hard you can be pretty sloppy with your placement. But on insane if you put down your pylon too late the AI will engage and destroy your canons.
T v Z (3 terrans will rape the 4 zergs) - megaton P v P (cannon and hold them back til your 3 Protoss come and steamroll them) - megaton P v T (same as PvP) - megaton Z v Z (harrass one ASAP. 8 workers Spawning pool, have 7\10 food, build 6 zerglings when spawning pool is done, wait for 300 minerals and rush with 6 zerglings and 3 drones. Build 3x Spine Crawlers and kite workers with zerlings) - cant recall map name but the one that looks kind of like a star
I'm not sure this even works anymore. Every single time I try the cannon rush on Megaton, the probes rush my pylon. Doesn't matter where I put my forge at all. If I place the pylon any farther away, my cannons will not be able to reach the bases.
On September 05 2010 15:05 atrocity3010 wrote: I'm not sure this even works anymore. Every single time I try the cannon rush on Megaton, the probes rush my pylon. Doesn't matter where I put my forge at all. If I place the pylon any farther away, my cannons will not be able to reach the bases.
You'll want 2 Pylons. Should be able to get in range of 2 bases with each one without getting rushed, or possibly 3/1. I pumped Probes to 10, Pylon, Forge, Pylon, Cannons. The extra Pylon doesn't slow it down enough to allow the AIs time to build up enough to fight it off. You need to be pretty conservative in your placement and it make take a little practice. You don't need to get your first cannon against each opponent in range of their CC, if it's covering a rax or depot that's fine, you can push in from there and still finish in under 10 minutes easily.
vs 2 Insane I played Z v ZZ 9pooled and built crawlers behind their mineral lines vs 4 very hard I did cannon rush on megaton (not sure about name) - 10 pylon - 10 forge - cannons (outside their base, just below mineral lines on someone) took me 4 tries to get it right... after 1 is down you have to pressure others with cannons... you can cannon another mineral line but it's bit harder to keep track of 2 lanes of cannons
On August 05 2010 16:01 lasershark wrote: all you have to do is cannon rush. the computers will all rush to defend their allies and die to mass cannons. then mass expand and build mass carriers. easy wins
Wow, that's pretty bad that the AI is dumb enough just to suicide into cannons like that. I saw the video of this and it was pathetic.
I had a very easy time of it with voidrays, myself... like someone said earlier, fast expand, mass cannons to survive their rush, then once you have critical mass of voidrays you can snipe their bases down endlessly.
Warning though, it takes a LONG time to finish it off... as you move from one base to the next, the Insane AI keeps rebuilding new bases all over the map and won't gg, I've never seen such bm from the computer before.
I'm curious if this can be done with terran, find a way to get a 200/200 bioball on a chokepoint-heavy map (aka, all of them)... do this against zerg, the computer LOVES to suicide all their units into terran armies and zerg never gets close enough to do any damage. I'm thinking a 200 supply terran army can crush 800 supply of cpu zerg.
On September 26 2010 08:01 sephiran wrote: Has anyone tried this since patch 1.1. Did the AI get a boost in cannon proxy rushing defense?
They got a boost in maphacking.
The answer is yes.
That being said... Has anyone found a way to get this achievement in 1.1? I've been working on it for a couple of days now and am about out of ideas. I've unsuccessfully tried cannon rushing, Lifting to islands (lavaflow), lifting to golds (Sand Canyon), Turtling with cannons -> Warp prism -> island as toss.
So far turtling on an island seems to be the closest I've gotten, but the always end up doing massive drops (10+ Medivacs/overlords/warp prism) that I can't stop with turrets or cannons
On September 26 2010 08:01 sephiran wrote: Has anyone tried this since patch 1.1. Did the AI get a boost in cannon proxy rushing defense?
They got a boost in maphacking.
The answer is yes.
That being said... Has anyone found a way to get this achievement in 1.1? I've been working on it for a couple of days now and am about out of ideas. I've unsuccessfully tried cannon rushing, Lifting to islands (lavaflow), lifting to golds (Sand Canyon), Turtling with cannons -> Warp prism -> island as toss.
So far turtling on an island seems to be the closest I've gotten, but the always end up doing massive drops (10+ Medivacs/overlords/warp prism) that I can't stop with turrets or cannons
Pretty sure I wrote how I won this. pick that beta 3v3 map PvZZZZ mass canon up between you and the close comp, keep massing canons and probes, expand, more canons, expand again, moarrrrrr canons, once you have the middle two bases and another expo you can drop some robos and upgrades pump out colossus and canons. Eventually get carriers and mofo ship with upgrades as well.
I did pretty much the same thing as the poster above me except on Megaton with PvZZZZ I cannoned both ramps, teched to 1 robo collosi, got around 8 collosi, triple expanded, then massed carriers from 4 stargates.
On August 03 2010 01:13 EiNiS wrote: Here is a video of the easy cannon rush strat, I used it and got 1v4 at first try, just be careful where you place your first pylon + Show Spoiler +
Now when you try this if even 1 SCV scout you, it's finished you get mass SCV rushed. I'm having a lot of trouble with 1v3 insane ai now after the patch.
It seems like cannon rushes consistently fail because SCVs will now SCV rush your Probe when scouted ALSO, massive tank defense as Terran doesn't work anymore because of Tank nerf.
Any tips on completing these achievements post patch?
On September 26 2010 08:01 sephiran wrote: Has anyone tried this since patch 1.1. Did the AI get a boost in cannon proxy rushing defense?
They got a boost in maphacking.
The answer is yes.
That being said... Has anyone found a way to get this achievement in 1.1? I've been working on it for a couple of days now and am about out of ideas. I've unsuccessfully tried cannon rushing, Lifting to islands (lavaflow), lifting to golds (Sand Canyon), Turtling with cannons -> Warp prism -> island as toss.
So far turtling on an island seems to be the closest I've gotten, but the always end up doing massive drops (10+ Medivacs/overlords/warp prism) that I can't stop with turrets or cannons
Pretty sure I wrote how I won this. pick that beta 3v3 map PvZZZZ mass canon up between you and the close comp, keep massing canons and probes, expand, more canons, expand again, moarrrrrr canons, once you have the middle two bases and another expo you can drop some robos and upgrades pump out colossus and canons. Eventually get carriers and mofo ship with upgrades as well.
200/200 , 1a to victory.
Ah, ok just read this. I will try this strat Charlie... hmm I really hope it still works.. Does anyone know the name of this map? The Beta 3v3 map?
Unfortunately I don't have the replay, but basically I played on the map Outpost(4v4 map) where the map is split diagonally and you share a main with one of your teammates. I essentially just walled in with barracks/siege tanks, then when I eventually got the chance lifted 4 Command centers to the other main and set up a planetary fortress wallin.
My original main eventually got busted because I didn't have enough air defense/tight enough wall. It was already mined out by the time that happened, so it didn't particularly matter as I was able to escape with most of my production buildings. Tank/turret/battle cruiser/4planetary fortress ended up being enough to hold the new choke till the map pretty much mined out while I poked away at their tech structures with 3/3 cloaked banshees.
Also to get a bit of extra resources I kept landing a spare orbital command I had and spamming mules then lifting again till the comps came to stop me.
On my main bases I almost never used mules, only supply drop because one is actually free resources the other is just letting you get them fast which doesn't really help while you're waiting for the map to mine out.
Sorry for not clarifying I played Terran against four Zergs.
I actually won the 4v4 race game as 4zergs (3 comps plus me) vs 4Terrans which was pretty frustrating there for a bit.
DminusTerran, what did you defend with before you got the tanks? I tried marines with a handful of bunkers. The roaches just laughed and smashed through.
On September 28 2010 04:06 Javonovich wrote: DminusTerran, what did you defend with before you got the tanks? I tried marines with a handful of bunkers. The roaches just laughed and smashed through.
Pretty much the same, though I had about 4ish Marauders by the time roaches came. The most important aspect was just constantly repaired barracks walling in my choke since roaches can't shoot over them, and the ai tends to freak out a bit rather than just focus firing them.
Wish I still had the replay, it really bothers me that blizzard auto deletes them =[.
On July 11 2010 10:47 Boblion wrote: What is your bo vs 2 insanes ?
The easiest way to beat 2 insanes is play on an island map as Terran vs 2 Zergs and just mass vikings off 1 base/with early upgrades. Then slowly take expansions with turrets/planetary forts and constantly harass their overlord/muta count(the ai just floats them around/tries to drop you rather than protecting them in their base). Eventually I got battlecruisers, but by that point I could have pretty much got whatever I wanted to.
The ai is pretty slow with upgrades so by the time your vikings are 3/3 they'll be lucky to have 1/0 mutas. Guess what happen in the majority of air battles >.<.
Thinking about it for a second you could probably do the exact same thing with Protoss and Phoenixes/transition into Carriers.
Yeah, that sucks. I've tried just about everything I can think of to get this achievement. Cannon rushing doesn't work at all. I've tried to fly away to an island expo on some maps, but that doesn't seem to work either.
Man, I really wish I knew the AI was getting such a nice buff or I would have done these achievements sooner.
On September 28 2010 04:20 Javonovich wrote: Yeah, that sucks. I've tried just about everything I can think of to get this achievement. Cannon rushing doesn't work at all. I've tried to fly away to an island expo on some maps, but that doesn't seem to work either.
Man, I really wish I knew the AI was getting such a nice buff or I would have done these achievements sooner.
I hear you man. I beat brutal campaign no problem compared to trying to beat 3 very hard ai post 1.1 patch! There is something wrong with this picture.
I think that instead of investing a bit more time and effort to make ai BETTER, they just make ai obtain more units faster. Then when people figure out how to beat the computer, Blizzard patches it so it literally becomes impossible without much research and to much headache.
On September 28 2010 04:20 Javonovich wrote: Yeah, that sucks. I've tried just about everything I can think of to get this achievement. Cannon rushing doesn't work at all. I've tried to fly away to an island expo on some maps, but that doesn't seem to work either.
Man, I really wish I knew the AI was getting such a nice buff or I would have done these achievements sooner.
I hear you man. I beat brutal campaign no problem compared to trying to beat 3 very hard ai post 1.1 patch! There is something wrong with this picture.
I think that instead of investing a bit more time and effort to make ai BETTER, they just make ai obtain more units faster. Then when people figure out how to beat the computer, Blizzard patches it so it literally becomes impossible without much research and to much headache.
Tell you guys what. I'll try to do the 4v1 on Outpost again. If I can beat it I'll post the replay here, though thinking about it 35/15 tanks and 8 ground damage BCs :\. Might be signing myself up for the paintrain on this one lol.
On September 28 2010 04:20 Javonovich wrote: Yeah, that sucks. I've tried just about everything I can think of to get this achievement. Cannon rushing doesn't work at all. I've tried to fly away to an island expo on some maps, but that doesn't seem to work either.
Man, I really wish I knew the AI was getting such a nice buff or I would have done these achievements sooner.
I hear you man. I beat brutal campaign no problem compared to trying to beat 3 very hard ai post 1.1 patch! There is something wrong with this picture.
I think that instead of investing a bit more time and effort to make ai BETTER, they just make ai obtain more units faster. Then when people figure out how to beat the computer, Blizzard patches it so it literally becomes impossible without much research and to much headache.
Tell you guys what. I'll try to do the 4v1 on Outpost again. If I can beat it I'll post the replay here, though thinking about it 35/15 tanks and 8 ground damage BCs :\. Might be signing myself up for the paintrain on this one lol.
That would be awesome DminusTerran, I'll keep checking back for the update!
P.S. Oh and just a side note, I think the Tank nerf really affected vs. ai gameplay because now your wall of tanks can't just obliterate everything. So yea, the ol' wall of Tanks trick doesn't seem to work anymore. I tried several (15+) times going for bunker / tank defense vs. 3 zerg and hydra and ling just laugh at the Tank splash now while they steamroll you.
Yup, and sometimes they are nice enough to mix in blings.
Right now it seems like the only way to do this is by picking Toss, cannoning up, getting a bunch of collosi (although they'd probably get slaughtered by any corrupters) and then teching even farther to mass carriers.
I might just abandon this achievement all together.
Ok just did it, game took an hour and a half and I really bungled it, but I still won so hopefully you get the gist of it. I'll have the replay uploaded in a second here.
That would be awesome DminusTerran, I'll keep checking back for the update!
P.S. Oh and just a side note, I think the Tank nerf really affected vs. ai gameplay because now your wall of tanks can't just obliterate everything. So yea, the ol' wall of Tanks trick doesn't seem to work anymore. I tried several (15+) times going for bunker / tank defense vs. 3 zerg and hydra and ling just laugh at the Tank splash now while they steamroll you.
The ramp choke on outpost makes it so your wall of tanks obliterates everything, because the ai just loves to run up it for some stupid reason.
I actually screwed up my expansion to the adjacent main =[. A: I waited too long B: I didn't bring any siege tanks with me C: the game started lagging so hard I was getting 1 fps constant. Despite not getting the four bases I wanted I was still able to easily starve the computers to death, I only hit a scare once when I saw some broodlords, luckily they never made more than a couple.
So essentially, if you want to do this really easily you can simply stick on the two bases and keep the third below your cliff clear of zerg till you need it and have a much easier time than was displayed in this particular example.
If you want to do the expand so you'll actually have enough money to build a huge airforce to kill the zerg. Take the expansions earlier than I did and bring some tanks in drop ships with you.
So hopefully that helps, because man that sure did eat up some time.
PS: This is actually super important/make sure to have replacements barracks ready to fill in holes in your wallin like I had in that game, also get building armor and range obviously O.o.
On September 28 2010 05:46 DminusTerran wrote: Ok just did it, game took an hour and a half and I really bungled it, but I still won so hopefully you get the gist of it. I'll have the replay uploaded in a second here.
That would be awesome DminusTerran, I'll keep checking back for the update!
P.S. Oh and just a side note, I think the Tank nerf really affected vs. ai gameplay because now your wall of tanks can't just obliterate everything. So yea, the ol' wall of Tanks trick doesn't seem to work anymore. I tried several (15+) times going for bunker / tank defense vs. 3 zerg and hydra and ling just laugh at the Tank splash now while they steamroll you.
The ramp choke on outpost makes it so your wall of tanks obliterates everything, because the ai just loves to run up it for some stupid reason.
SWEET man, you are my new hero. TY for doing this. Can't wait to see your replay and to try it out. I will have to do it tonight though after I go home but I'll let you know if I can repeat your success!
Build your first pylon, forge, and 2x cannons on the low ground first and make probes until about 26 food. In my game I had to build a second nexus and transfer my probes because I ran out of minerals at my main.
I believe the computer also expands at around 10-12 minutes into the game. I dealt with it by cannon rushing the expansions.
vs 2 insane: Pick a map where their starting points are together. Cannons in between their bases, dont get greedy or they will worker rush you. Once cannons are up, make just 1 cannon slightly closer to each base, to make them aware of what your doing. After that the AI bugs and you can enter their mineral lines and make pylons/cannons there, they will not attack it.
vs 4 very hard: Pick the map with island bottom left and top right. 4v4 map, dont remember the name. Pick terran, and airlift to closest island. You have 1 scv left on the mainland, which you make a 2nd CC with and float to 2nd island. Turret up, 3-4 siege tanks on each island. Enemy will try to walk to the island, your tanks will reach 500+ kills during this game. Enough turrets to stop their drops. Once these are closed to mined out, you should have 3-3 grades for vehicles, and started making thors/medivacs/more tanks. Find a exp they have yet to take, on the map im thinking of there are 4 total exps on high ground with destru rocks at choke. Drop all there, take that exp and mine out. The AI will move all forces at once, so send 3-4 thors to each of their exps, they will only defend 1, then they move to the others after you've destroyed them, send 4 new thors to the one they defended. Get 200/200 and faceroll them.
I've noticed that none of the AI knows what to do about well micro'd reapers. I killed 2x protoss insane AIs with nothing but mass reapers. You basically play pingpong with both armies; they won't attack if their base is attacked, so they pull back.. then when they try moving out again, you just continue the harass. Just cycle through all their bases and laugh at the ensuing AI failure! :D
Thank you all for your comments and suggestions. DminusTerran, I'll try to learn something from the replay you posted. I really appreciate the time you put into this.
I considered reapers for the 1v2 insane ai, but I was actually able to pull off that achievement by doing a spine crawler rush (it takes some luck to pull off). Maybe with some moderate micro mass reapers would work against the 4 very hard comps, but I doubt it. I'll still give it a try if I don't have any luck as Terran on Outpost.
I've played in Lava Flows as Terran and tried lifting off my CC to the island. The problem was the lag. My comp is a decent, but even on the lowest graphics settings all the units slow me down.
EDIT: Tried this a couple times. I was starting to get the hang of it when a few overlords dropped banelings and roaches into my base, which tore up my mineral line. Does that happen often? I was always under the impression that the AI never drops unless you are on an island location.
Guys, I just figured out the easiest way in the world to win 1v3 insane comps I think it took only 14 minutes and no skill. I made this video.
THis works for 1v2, 1v3 medium, hard, very hard, and insane Enjoy all the free easy acheivement points. That's 8 achievements with 0 skill required! Now to try 1v4 insane =/
I finally got the achievement following this video:
Basically, it's a cannon rush updated for 1.1. I messed up the placement with my first attempt, but on my second attempt I won easily, despite one of the comps teching to Thors and BCs.
Thank you all for the help and suggestions you've been giving. I can't tell you how much I appreciate the time you've devoted to helping me out.
Confirming that the above video works for the current patch today. I didn't do it properly so I ended up just starving the bottom two (the most powerful armies) out of minerals, then finishing off the first two that had tried to expand.
I beat this ezpz just a few trys to get the rush timings down. I basically chose a map where I could secure 3 easy bases and use tons of cannons and go mass carrier with a mother ship mass recall if u need to. Was hilarious! The boneyard is eziest map to do it on. You start with 3 bases in your main, and its a small choke. Just follow the basic steps I do in this game. timing on cannons is important as well as the early chrono boost note the times I stop and start probes once u get carriers and upgrades going should be ez, just remake cannons when they die here is the replay. I gurantee anyone can do this method!
AI has not changed since release so here's what I did: Choose map Abyss, place a few cannons near the ramp and rush Void Rays. You need at least 2. When AI attacks, start destroying buildings in their base. Every AI will return to defend, always. When their army is close withdraw and wait a little bit, then start attacking again. It took me some time but it doesn't require much skills. This strat (and similar ones) also work in co-op.
it is pretty easy if you make 3 rax reaper and harass the comps when the are headinh towords your base. You need to play against 4 toss opponents to make it work best
I tried a lot of different cheese against them(i honestly don't think there is another way to beat them)and the one that worked after numerous tries was canon rushing,now as stated in one of the posts above,the worker units will go brutal on your pylon and canon,the trick is to place it in a spot where it cannot get a surround by the workers,like between the mineral patches,or some other corner near one of the AI mains. once you get 2-3 canons you've basically won. As long as there is a threat inside the AI base,he will not move out,instead run in and out of the canon range the whole game witch means you can freely expand and get even more canons. Note:this may take a lot of time,thanks to the fact that the AI is extremely stubborn,and won't surrender until his last cyber core. Oh,and i almost forgot,i can't remember the reason,but i chose 4 Protoss as my enemies,i guess because they lack range units at the beginning,witch makes probe micro easier to plant the first canons.
I did it the 'cheap' way by using the Burning Tide map for the outmatched achievements.
It's a mineral race map instead of conquest; 3v3, but when you play 4 vs AI, the 4th AI's minerals count to your team. 2 Vs AI and 4 Vs AI same difficulty in that respect.
The AI never attacks either, since it wants to pool minerals, so you can just build workers and mass expo to your free win.
EDIT: It used to count; haven't verified if it was changed in 1.4.3, but why would they? It is a blizzard made map too.
If you use that map, when the lava flooding the low ground recedes, there are a bunch of walkover minerals to help get a nice mineral boost.
Burning Tide isn't available in the custom games browser in 1.5. It is available in the vs ai menu, but these games didn't count for the achviements pre-patch, so I doubt they do now. In addition, the vs ai map won't load when I tried to play it with bots.
Cannon rushing vs 4 very hard ai seems impossible to me. I can't pressure enough of them at once, so I may take out a base or two, but the third and fourth bots can get enough maurauders/immortals out to end it. I've tried quick rushing with minimal cannons across a larger area, and large numbers of cannons in groups, but I'm either too weak or too slow to win. Not even close honestly.
I got the FFA vs 7 insane acheivement back in the day using the lava map and floating a cc to an island, but it feels like the bots counter the mass battlecruiser build very heavily with void rays and carriers. The few times I have lived long enough to get a decent number of BC's, the bots would just have too much antiair.
I haven't tried standard tank turtle on a map with a blockable base entrance (Zenith maybe), but I'm not very skilled with terran (or any race really).
Dunno whats wrong but heres my experience after numerous tries with this stupid set of achievements. After about 10 games, trying both the carrier method on boneyard (which looked a bit easier imo) and the voidray on lava I either A. have shit luck with AI or B. this just does not work. Having spent much more time than I deem necessary for something like this, I am quite a bit frustrated at just how random the encounters seem to be.
1. I either get ling rushed and have to restart, so not sure if them scouting you has to do with it or not. <-love this especially nice to waste my time having to restart. 2. There is a super early roach push or a bit later mixed with hydras. This can be circumvented by building toss evo chamber (name escapes me as I play zerg) then first nat expo so cannons come out sooner. 3. I had about 10 carriers out with an ass ton of cannons and there were so many corruptors it didn't even matter. I was hardly able to push out before having to run back to my base because I was overrun by corruptors and hydras.
Its almost like playing casino odds at a carnival where its doubly against your favor and no amount of skill can put you ahead. My macro isn't a problem because even at my level, bases that close proximity and just one unit, theres not that much to take care of. I dunno, this achievement seemed fun at first, and now its just one big pain in the ass that I have let go, even being the achievement whore I am.
Someone in another thread mentioned not building any starports until the map is mined out, but when I tried the bots still built broodlords and take out my missle turrets easilly.
I also can't repair the front line of turrets. I could leave paths for the scv's, but then I would have too few missle turrets.
It seems like at some point the bots get fed up and send several corruptors with several overlord drops and overwhelm even massive missle turret walls.
I'm wondering if it might be easier TvT or TvP. With so many turrets it might kill interceptors fast enough to make this viable vs P, but battlecruisers will die pretty slow to turrets.
Ya in my experience if you are gonna go up against at least zerg its best to use Protoss. If you go carrier heavy the corruptors go for the interceptors most of the time which negates dmg to the carriers themselves...usually. <---and this is the main problem. The innate randomness that seems to occur within each game. I stopped going terran after the patch change to computer AI, because that is how I did the vs 7 insane matchup. Now I don't see that one even being possible anymore.
I'll prolly try a few more carrier/void ray on boneyard map before I start trying a smaller map and seeing if I can't get by with a few lucky cannon rush games. Again, randomness aside if you get a good bit of stupid AI you can get a few cannons up within each base and the game wins itself but 4 of them would be quite the task.
On August 11 2012 10:51 AlchyAA wrote: Dunno whats wrong but heres my experience after numerous tries with this stupid set of achievements. After about 10 games, trying both the carrier method on boneyard (which looked a bit easier imo) and the voidray on lava I either A. have shit luck with AI or B. this just does not work. Having spent much more time than I deem necessary for something like this, I am quite a bit frustrated at just how random the encounters seem to be.
1. I either get ling rushed and have to restart, so not sure if them scouting you has to do with it or not. <-love this especially nice to waste my time having to restart. 2. There is a super early roach push or a bit later mixed with hydras. This can be circumvented by building toss evo chamber (name escapes me as I play zerg) then first nat expo so cannons come out sooner. 3. I had about 10 carriers out with an ass ton of cannons and there were so many corruptors it didn't even matter. I was hardly able to push out before having to run back to my base because I was overrun by corruptors and hydras.
Its almost like playing casino odds at a carnival where its doubly against your favor and no amount of skill can put you ahead. My macro isn't a problem because even at my level, bases that close proximity and just one unit, theres not that much to take care of. I dunno, this achievement seemed fun at first, and now its just one big pain in the ass that I have let go, even being the achievement whore I am.
I dl'ed your replays Mossmyr, that strat just wasn't working for me. I still got overran and I copied the build order and timings down to a T. I was even faster than you on macro and a few mistakes you made. Like I said, it just seems random at how they respond, at times I'll be doing fine until say the 15 min mark or the next time the 20.
On August 12 2012 03:40 AlchyAA wrote: I dl'ed your replays Mossmyr, that strat just wasn't working for me. I still got overran and I copied the build order and timings down to a T. I was even faster than you on macro and a few mistakes you made. Like I said, it just seems random at how they respond, at times I'll be doing fine until say the 15 min mark or the next time the 20.
Yes, you're not the only one who's had this problem. jdseemoreglass said he tried it twice and got overrun both times. This method does work, but it's random just like you said. Sometimes they scout you later for some reason, sometimes they scout early. Sometimes they macro up with Corruptors/Mutalisks, sometimes they go Roach/Hydralisk heavy. I havn't found a direct connection, but I swear on my mother's grave that if you try 5 times, and give it your best, at least one of them will succeed.
My reply to jdseemoreglass had some additional info, you should read it (it's in the other thread).
EPT
) so i wonder which kind of build would work vs two AI.![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/YQOs9.jpg)
I've been trying it multiple ways, such as getting tanks on pseudo-island on Extinction then transitioning into BC's, as well as cannon rushing 4 of them.![[image loading]](http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/3030/step1md.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/9402/step2o.jpg)
