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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51493 Posts
Lol the FIFA corner worked in real life xd
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How is Mike Dean still employed. I mean he does more damage the longer he is allowed to officiate.
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this is getting ridiculous.
theyre footballers, not sjws. get on with your job and just play the damn game. imagine a normal employee walking out of the office at the slightest hint of abuse.
footballers are all primadonnas now
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Norway28699 Posts
Alternatively, imagine having your colleagues hurl racial abuse your way and your boss being like 'oh well deal with it bro'.
I really don't understand your framing here. Clearly the issue is the racism, not the response to the racism.
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I have to say I'm a bit worried if that kind of responses can be exploited. It's an incredibly powerful tool if you can pretty much call off a match based on something that can be somewhat subjective, hard to verify afterwards and so on.
Basically the game still has to be moderated and managed by referees, rules, associations and such, not by some kind of arbitrary heat of the moment decisions by team or player involved in the game.
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On April 05 2021 19:22 Liquid`Drone wrote:
Alternatively, imagine having your colleagues hurl racial abuse your way and your boss being like 'oh well deal with it bro'.
I really don't understand your framing here. Clearly the issue is the racism, not the response to the racism.
thats not a very good comparison?
the governing body of the league still should be dealing with these issues, with fines or bans or whatever.
your boss doesnt send everyone home and close shop because one of your coworkers was abused.
and call me cold but i think its pretty pathetic that professional footballers who play in a competition are so easily hurt by some words said in the heat of the moment. if anyone thinks that footballers dont talk shit to each other at all levels of competition just to piss each other off, theyre dreaming. trying to tilt your opposition is part of the game and although racial abuse isnt acceptable if youre triggered so easily by your opponent to the point that you cant carry on with the game, youre in the wrong profession. then again, were in the age where players are encouraged more and more to be like neymar so i guess my expectations are out of date now.
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On April 05 2021 19:51 evilfatsh1t wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2021 19:22 Liquid`Drone wrote:
Alternatively, imagine having your colleagues hurl racial abuse your way and your boss being like 'oh well deal with it bro'.
I really don't understand your framing here. Clearly the issue is the racism, not the response to the racism. thats not a very good comparison? the governing body of the league still should be dealing with these issues, with fines or bans or whatever. your boss doesnt send everyone home and close shop because one of your coworkers was abused. and call me cold but i think its pretty pathetic that professional footballers who play in a competition are so easily hurt by some words said in the heat of the moment. if anyone thinks that footballers dont talk shit to each other at all levels of competition just to piss each other off, theyre dreaming. trying to tilt your opposition is part of the game and although racial abuse isnt acceptable if youre triggered so easily by your opponent to the point that you cant carry on with the game, youre in the wrong profession. then again, were in the age where players are encouraged more and more to be like neymar so i guess my expectations are out of date now.
You're correct that these comments make you look horrifically callous and cold.
Racist abuse isn't "trying to tilt your opponent". It's a facet of a racist culture that perpetuates the abuse and dehumanization of POC. Tolerating it in any way allows greater racial injustices to continue. The idea that people should "just suck it up and play through it" is disgustingly racist in-and-of-itself.
These people aren't working in an essential social industry like healthcare or law enforcement where society needs the people to work through these kinds of situations; they're playing a fucking game. Walking off of the field is 100% the correct thing to do; it brings attention to the issue and forces governing bodies to take it seriously. The team is already taking a risk because they are essentially forfeiting the game by walking off, but doing this brings awareness to the issue when the governing bodies of football at all levels have been entirely too complacent in this behavior in the past. It forces governing bodies to respond to the issue (since they rarely use to respond in any meaningful way) or suffer a massive PR backlash.
Professional athletes don't owe you anything in terms of entertainment, and they most certainly shouldn't be told to "just shut up and play". Athletes in any sport, at all levels, do not have to sit through bigoted abuse for entertainment, and they are absolutely right to use their platform to fight against hatred like this. The idea of "shut up and play" is a disgusting level of entitlement leveled by people that are made uncomfortable by talking about social issues.
Sports, just like comics and other nerd things, have always been deeply political. Demanding that the two be separated so that fans can enjoy sports in a "safe space" without having to critically think is woefully naive.
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On April 05 2021 20:55 Stratos_speAr wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2021 19:51 evilfatsh1t wrote:On April 05 2021 19:22 Liquid`Drone wrote:
Alternatively, imagine having your colleagues hurl racial abuse your way and your boss being like 'oh well deal with it bro'.
I really don't understand your framing here. Clearly the issue is the racism, not the response to the racism. thats not a very good comparison? the governing body of the league still should be dealing with these issues, with fines or bans or whatever. your boss doesnt send everyone home and close shop because one of your coworkers was abused. and call me cold but i think its pretty pathetic that professional footballers who play in a competition are so easily hurt by some words said in the heat of the moment. if anyone thinks that footballers dont talk shit to each other at all levels of competition just to piss each other off, theyre dreaming. trying to tilt your opposition is part of the game and although racial abuse isnt acceptable if youre triggered so easily by your opponent to the point that you cant carry on with the game, youre in the wrong profession. then again, were in the age where players are encouraged more and more to be like neymar so i guess my expectations are out of date now. You're correct that these comments make you look cold. They also just make you look like a terrible person. Racist abuse isn't "trying to tilt your opponent". It's a facet of a racist culture that perpetuates the abuse and dehumanization of POC. The idea that people should "just suck it up and play through it" is disgustingly racist and bigoted in-and-of-itself.These people aren't working in an essential social industry like healthcare or law enforcement where society needs the people to work through these kinds of situations; they're playing a fucking game. Walking off of the field is 100000% the correct thing to do; it brings attention to the issue and forces governing bodies to take it seriously. The team is already taking a risk because they are essentially forfeiting the game by walking off, but doing this brings awareness to the issue when the governing bodies of football at all levels have been entirely too complacent in this behavior in the past. It forces governing bodies to respond to the issue (since they rarely use to respond in any meaningful way) or suffer a massive PR backlash. Professional athletes don't owe you anything in terms of entertainment, and they most certainly shouldn't be told to "just shut up and play". Athletes in any sport, at all levels, do not have to sit through bigoted abuse for entertainment, and they are absolutely right to use their platform to fight against hatred like this. The idea of "shut up and play" is a disgusting level of entitlement leveled by people that are made uncomfortable by talking about social issues. Sports, just like comics and other nerd things, have always been deeply political. Demanding that the two be separated so that fans can enjoy sports in a "safe space" without having to critically think is woefully naive.
how is that racist? do you even know what racism means? do you think materazzi really meant it by saying to zidane he wanted to screw his sister? or is it far more likely that he just said whatever would piss zidane off because theyre opponents in a heated match? people dont have to get offended by everything they hear. some people are gonna say stupid shit that pisses you off and theres nothing you can do about it. either let it get to you or dont.
if the team actually forfeited the match in order to bring attention to the issue, then thats their choice. but they didnt forfeit the match did they? in fact, i dont recall a match being forfeited by a team boycotting the game for various reasons in a long time. its becoming a habit now that teams just walk off the field for whatever reason because they know there wont be repercussions and its become dangerous. lets not pretend like the players thought there really was something at stake when they walked off. only when they were told that they really might be forced to forfeit did they come back on the pitch.
as for professional footballers not owing us entertainment, thats just blatantly wrong. where do you think they get their million dollar paychecks? tv rights, shirt sales, sponsorships, ticket sales etc.
their entire profession is funded by the viewer like you and me who pay for them to play at a high and professional standard. its one thing for a club's official position to be that the players boycott a game or wont play under certain conditions, its another for a player or group of players to take it upon themselves and walk off the pitch of an official match with no repercussions. leave the disclipining to the official bodies; players shouldnt be taking matters into their own hands. its also not their call whether a match gets played or not. it doesnt seem like a big issue now because we have no fans in stadiums, but if a player walked off because he was offended and refused to play further when 70,000 fans are expecting a game, he better be paying back the ticket fees out of his own pocket.
and i think its pretty funny you think that its naive to think that fans should be able to enjoy sports without politics. i think its naive to expect a couple millionaire footballers boycotting games because of some racist remarks to actually have any impact.
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On April 05 2021 21:30 evilfatsh1t wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2021 20:55 Stratos_speAr wrote:On April 05 2021 19:51 evilfatsh1t wrote:On April 05 2021 19:22 Liquid`Drone wrote:
Alternatively, imagine having your colleagues hurl racial abuse your way and your boss being like 'oh well deal with it bro'.
I really don't understand your framing here. Clearly the issue is the racism, not the response to the racism. thats not a very good comparison? the governing body of the league still should be dealing with these issues, with fines or bans or whatever. your boss doesnt send everyone home and close shop because one of your coworkers was abused. and call me cold but i think its pretty pathetic that professional footballers who play in a competition are so easily hurt by some words said in the heat of the moment. if anyone thinks that footballers dont talk shit to each other at all levels of competition just to piss each other off, theyre dreaming. trying to tilt your opposition is part of the game and although racial abuse isnt acceptable if youre triggered so easily by your opponent to the point that you cant carry on with the game, youre in the wrong profession. then again, were in the age where players are encouraged more and more to be like neymar so i guess my expectations are out of date now. You're correct that these comments make you look cold. They also just make you look like a terrible person. Racist abuse isn't "trying to tilt your opponent". It's a facet of a racist culture that perpetuates the abuse and dehumanization of POC. The idea that people should "just suck it up and play through it" is disgustingly racist and bigoted in-and-of-itself.These people aren't working in an essential social industry like healthcare or law enforcement where society needs the people to work through these kinds of situations; they're playing a fucking game. Walking off of the field is 100000% the correct thing to do; it brings attention to the issue and forces governing bodies to take it seriously. The team is already taking a risk because they are essentially forfeiting the game by walking off, but doing this brings awareness to the issue when the governing bodies of football at all levels have been entirely too complacent in this behavior in the past. It forces governing bodies to respond to the issue (since they rarely use to respond in any meaningful way) or suffer a massive PR backlash. Professional athletes don't owe you anything in terms of entertainment, and they most certainly shouldn't be told to "just shut up and play". Athletes in any sport, at all levels, do not have to sit through bigoted abuse for entertainment, and they are absolutely right to use their platform to fight against hatred like this. The idea of "shut up and play" is a disgusting level of entitlement leveled by people that are made uncomfortable by talking about social issues. Sports, just like comics and other nerd things, have always been deeply political. Demanding that the two be separated so that fans can enjoy sports in a "safe space" without having to critically think is woefully naive. how is that racist? do you even know what racism means? do you think materazzi really meant it by saying to zidane he wanted to screw his sister? or is it far more likely that he just said whatever would piss zidane off because theyre opponents in a heated match? people dont have to get offended by everything they hear. some people are gonna say stupid shit that pisses you off and theres nothing you can do about it. either let it get to you or dont. if the team actually forfeited the match in order to bring attention to the issue, then thats their choice. but they didnt forfeit the match did they? in fact, i dont recall a match being forfeited by a team boycotting the game for various reasons in a long time. its becoming a habit now that teams just walk off the field for whatever reason because they know there wont be repercussions and its become dangerous. lets not pretend like the players thought there really was something at stake when they walked off. only when they were told that they really might be forced to forfeit did they come back on the pitch. as for professional footballers not owing us entertainment, thats just blatantly wrong. where do you think they get their million dollar paychecks? tv rights, shirt sales, sponsorships, ticket sales etc. their entire profession is funded by the viewer like you and me who pay for them to play at a high and professional standard. its one thing for a club's official position to be that the players boycott a game or wont play under certain conditions, its another for a player or group of players to take it upon themselves and walk off the pitch of an official match with no repercussions. leave the disclipining to the official bodies; players shouldnt be taking matters into their own hands. its also not their call whether a match gets played or not. it doesnt seem like a big issue now because we have no fans in stadiums, but if a player walked off because he was offended and refused to play further when 70,000 fans are expecting a game, he better be paying back the ticket fees out of his own pocket. and i think its pretty funny you think that its naive to think that fans should be able to enjoy sports without politics. i think its naive to expect a couple millionaire footballers boycotting games because of some racist remarks to actually have any impact.
Essentially, your argument is:
"My right to enjoy sport without without politics is more important than a black player's right not be racially abused at work."
Personally, I disagree. We all wish it wasn't necessary for teams to walk off, but after decades of campaigning against racial abuse at football matches, still very little is actually done to prevent it, because FIFA doesn't want to piss off racists, so it has come to this.
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On April 05 2021 21:42 Jockmcplop wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2021 21:30 evilfatsh1t wrote:On April 05 2021 20:55 Stratos_speAr wrote:On April 05 2021 19:51 evilfatsh1t wrote:On April 05 2021 19:22 Liquid`Drone wrote:
Alternatively, imagine having your colleagues hurl racial abuse your way and your boss being like 'oh well deal with it bro'.
I really don't understand your framing here. Clearly the issue is the racism, not the response to the racism. thats not a very good comparison? the governing body of the league still should be dealing with these issues, with fines or bans or whatever. your boss doesnt send everyone home and close shop because one of your coworkers was abused. and call me cold but i think its pretty pathetic that professional footballers who play in a competition are so easily hurt by some words said in the heat of the moment. if anyone thinks that footballers dont talk shit to each other at all levels of competition just to piss each other off, theyre dreaming. trying to tilt your opposition is part of the game and although racial abuse isnt acceptable if youre triggered so easily by your opponent to the point that you cant carry on with the game, youre in the wrong profession. then again, were in the age where players are encouraged more and more to be like neymar so i guess my expectations are out of date now. You're correct that these comments make you look cold. They also just make you look like a terrible person. Racist abuse isn't "trying to tilt your opponent". It's a facet of a racist culture that perpetuates the abuse and dehumanization of POC. The idea that people should "just suck it up and play through it" is disgustingly racist and bigoted in-and-of-itself.These people aren't working in an essential social industry like healthcare or law enforcement where society needs the people to work through these kinds of situations; they're playing a fucking game. Walking off of the field is 100000% the correct thing to do; it brings attention to the issue and forces governing bodies to take it seriously. The team is already taking a risk because they are essentially forfeiting the game by walking off, but doing this brings awareness to the issue when the governing bodies of football at all levels have been entirely too complacent in this behavior in the past. It forces governing bodies to respond to the issue (since they rarely use to respond in any meaningful way) or suffer a massive PR backlash. Professional athletes don't owe you anything in terms of entertainment, and they most certainly shouldn't be told to "just shut up and play". Athletes in any sport, at all levels, do not have to sit through bigoted abuse for entertainment, and they are absolutely right to use their platform to fight against hatred like this. The idea of "shut up and play" is a disgusting level of entitlement leveled by people that are made uncomfortable by talking about social issues. Sports, just like comics and other nerd things, have always been deeply political. Demanding that the two be separated so that fans can enjoy sports in a "safe space" without having to critically think is woefully naive. how is that racist? do you even know what racism means? do you think materazzi really meant it by saying to zidane he wanted to screw his sister? or is it far more likely that he just said whatever would piss zidane off because theyre opponents in a heated match? people dont have to get offended by everything they hear. some people are gonna say stupid shit that pisses you off and theres nothing you can do about it. either let it get to you or dont. if the team actually forfeited the match in order to bring attention to the issue, then thats their choice. but they didnt forfeit the match did they? in fact, i dont recall a match being forfeited by a team boycotting the game for various reasons in a long time. its becoming a habit now that teams just walk off the field for whatever reason because they know there wont be repercussions and its become dangerous. lets not pretend like the players thought there really was something at stake when they walked off. only when they were told that they really might be forced to forfeit did they come back on the pitch. as for professional footballers not owing us entertainment, thats just blatantly wrong. where do you think they get their million dollar paychecks? tv rights, shirt sales, sponsorships, ticket sales etc. their entire profession is funded by the viewer like you and me who pay for them to play at a high and professional standard. its one thing for a club's official position to be that the players boycott a game or wont play under certain conditions, its another for a player or group of players to take it upon themselves and walk off the pitch of an official match with no repercussions. leave the disclipining to the official bodies; players shouldnt be taking matters into their own hands. its also not their call whether a match gets played or not. it doesnt seem like a big issue now because we have no fans in stadiums, but if a player walked off because he was offended and refused to play further when 70,000 fans are expecting a game, he better be paying back the ticket fees out of his own pocket. and i think its pretty funny you think that its naive to think that fans should be able to enjoy sports without politics. i think its naive to expect a couple millionaire footballers boycotting games because of some racist remarks to actually have any impact. Essentially, your argument is: "My right to enjoy sport without without politics is more important than a black player's right not be racially abused at work." Personally, I disagree. We all wish it wasn't necessary for teams to walk off, but after decades of campaigning against racial abuse at football matches, still very little is actually done to prevent it, because FIFA doesn't want to piss off racists, so it has come to this.
ummm no? my argument is that the players' obligations to the stakeholders of the sport trump whether hes been personally offended by another player. if he wants to take matters into his own hands, walk off the pitch alone or punch on with the offender if you have to. the players dont have the right to decide whether a match is played further or not and they should never feel like they have the power to do so, no matter what their cause is.
again, racism is everywhere. literally a worldwide problem that can be found anywhere you look. 99% of people dont combat racism by deciding that theyre not going to do their job because they want to have a whinge. footballers should be no different. bringing attention to the matter is all well and fine but boycotting a match isnt the way to do it
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On April 05 2021 22:07 evilfatsh1t wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2021 21:42 Jockmcplop wrote:On April 05 2021 21:30 evilfatsh1t wrote:On April 05 2021 20:55 Stratos_speAr wrote:On April 05 2021 19:51 evilfatsh1t wrote:On April 05 2021 19:22 Liquid`Drone wrote:
Alternatively, imagine having your colleagues hurl racial abuse your way and your boss being like 'oh well deal with it bro'.
I really don't understand your framing here. Clearly the issue is the racism, not the response to the racism. thats not a very good comparison? the governing body of the league still should be dealing with these issues, with fines or bans or whatever. your boss doesnt send everyone home and close shop because one of your coworkers was abused. and call me cold but i think its pretty pathetic that professional footballers who play in a competition are so easily hurt by some words said in the heat of the moment. if anyone thinks that footballers dont talk shit to each other at all levels of competition just to piss each other off, theyre dreaming. trying to tilt your opposition is part of the game and although racial abuse isnt acceptable if youre triggered so easily by your opponent to the point that you cant carry on with the game, youre in the wrong profession. then again, were in the age where players are encouraged more and more to be like neymar so i guess my expectations are out of date now. You're correct that these comments make you look cold. They also just make you look like a terrible person. Racist abuse isn't "trying to tilt your opponent". It's a facet of a racist culture that perpetuates the abuse and dehumanization of POC. The idea that people should "just suck it up and play through it" is disgustingly racist and bigoted in-and-of-itself.These people aren't working in an essential social industry like healthcare or law enforcement where society needs the people to work through these kinds of situations; they're playing a fucking game. Walking off of the field is 100000% the correct thing to do; it brings attention to the issue and forces governing bodies to take it seriously. The team is already taking a risk because they are essentially forfeiting the game by walking off, but doing this brings awareness to the issue when the governing bodies of football at all levels have been entirely too complacent in this behavior in the past. It forces governing bodies to respond to the issue (since they rarely use to respond in any meaningful way) or suffer a massive PR backlash. Professional athletes don't owe you anything in terms of entertainment, and they most certainly shouldn't be told to "just shut up and play". Athletes in any sport, at all levels, do not have to sit through bigoted abuse for entertainment, and they are absolutely right to use their platform to fight against hatred like this. The idea of "shut up and play" is a disgusting level of entitlement leveled by people that are made uncomfortable by talking about social issues. Sports, just like comics and other nerd things, have always been deeply political. Demanding that the two be separated so that fans can enjoy sports in a "safe space" without having to critically think is woefully naive. how is that racist? do you even know what racism means? do you think materazzi really meant it by saying to zidane he wanted to screw his sister? or is it far more likely that he just said whatever would piss zidane off because theyre opponents in a heated match? people dont have to get offended by everything they hear. some people are gonna say stupid shit that pisses you off and theres nothing you can do about it. either let it get to you or dont. if the team actually forfeited the match in order to bring attention to the issue, then thats their choice. but they didnt forfeit the match did they? in fact, i dont recall a match being forfeited by a team boycotting the game for various reasons in a long time. its becoming a habit now that teams just walk off the field for whatever reason because they know there wont be repercussions and its become dangerous. lets not pretend like the players thought there really was something at stake when they walked off. only when they were told that they really might be forced to forfeit did they come back on the pitch. as for professional footballers not owing us entertainment, thats just blatantly wrong. where do you think they get their million dollar paychecks? tv rights, shirt sales, sponsorships, ticket sales etc. their entire profession is funded by the viewer like you and me who pay for them to play at a high and professional standard. its one thing for a club's official position to be that the players boycott a game or wont play under certain conditions, its another for a player or group of players to take it upon themselves and walk off the pitch of an official match with no repercussions. leave the disclipining to the official bodies; players shouldnt be taking matters into their own hands. its also not their call whether a match gets played or not. it doesnt seem like a big issue now because we have no fans in stadiums, but if a player walked off because he was offended and refused to play further when 70,000 fans are expecting a game, he better be paying back the ticket fees out of his own pocket. and i think its pretty funny you think that its naive to think that fans should be able to enjoy sports without politics. i think its naive to expect a couple millionaire footballers boycotting games because of some racist remarks to actually have any impact. Essentially, your argument is: "My right to enjoy sport without without politics is more important than a black player's right not be racially abused at work." Personally, I disagree. We all wish it wasn't necessary for teams to walk off, but after decades of campaigning against racial abuse at football matches, still very little is actually done to prevent it, because FIFA doesn't want to piss off racists, so it has come to this. ummm no? my argument is that the players' obligations to the stakeholders of the sport trump whether hes been personally offended by another player. if he wants to take matters into his own hands, walk off the pitch alone or punch on with the offender if you have to. the players dont have the right to decide whether a match is played further or not and they should never feel like they have the power to do so, no matter what their cause is. again, racism is everywhere. literally a worldwide problem that can be found anywhere you look. 99% of people dont combat racism by deciding that theyre not going to do their job because they want to have a whinge. footballers should be no different. bringing attention to the matter is all well and fine but boycotting a match isnt the way to do it
Your language is telling. The racially abused players are just 'having a whinge'. Yuck.
Clearly you don't understand the issue of racism in the slightest.
We decided as a society a while ago that nothing justifies racist abuse. You seem to have been left behind on this. No, a player's obligation to a stakeholder, or a boss, or anyone else, does not mean they have to sit and take racist abuse. You are just wrong about that.
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On April 05 2021 22:24 Jockmcplop wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2021 22:07 evilfatsh1t wrote:On April 05 2021 21:42 Jockmcplop wrote:On April 05 2021 21:30 evilfatsh1t wrote:On April 05 2021 20:55 Stratos_speAr wrote:On April 05 2021 19:51 evilfatsh1t wrote:On April 05 2021 19:22 Liquid`Drone wrote:
Alternatively, imagine having your colleagues hurl racial abuse your way and your boss being like 'oh well deal with it bro'.
I really don't understand your framing here. Clearly the issue is the racism, not the response to the racism. thats not a very good comparison? the governing body of the league still should be dealing with these issues, with fines or bans or whatever. your boss doesnt send everyone home and close shop because one of your coworkers was abused. and call me cold but i think its pretty pathetic that professional footballers who play in a competition are so easily hurt by some words said in the heat of the moment. if anyone thinks that footballers dont talk shit to each other at all levels of competition just to piss each other off, theyre dreaming. trying to tilt your opposition is part of the game and although racial abuse isnt acceptable if youre triggered so easily by your opponent to the point that you cant carry on with the game, youre in the wrong profession. then again, were in the age where players are encouraged more and more to be like neymar so i guess my expectations are out of date now. You're correct that these comments make you look cold. They also just make you look like a terrible person. Racist abuse isn't "trying to tilt your opponent". It's a facet of a racist culture that perpetuates the abuse and dehumanization of POC. The idea that people should "just suck it up and play through it" is disgustingly racist and bigoted in-and-of-itself.These people aren't working in an essential social industry like healthcare or law enforcement where society needs the people to work through these kinds of situations; they're playing a fucking game. Walking off of the field is 100000% the correct thing to do; it brings attention to the issue and forces governing bodies to take it seriously. The team is already taking a risk because they are essentially forfeiting the game by walking off, but doing this brings awareness to the issue when the governing bodies of football at all levels have been entirely too complacent in this behavior in the past. It forces governing bodies to respond to the issue (since they rarely use to respond in any meaningful way) or suffer a massive PR backlash. Professional athletes don't owe you anything in terms of entertainment, and they most certainly shouldn't be told to "just shut up and play". Athletes in any sport, at all levels, do not have to sit through bigoted abuse for entertainment, and they are absolutely right to use their platform to fight against hatred like this. The idea of "shut up and play" is a disgusting level of entitlement leveled by people that are made uncomfortable by talking about social issues. Sports, just like comics and other nerd things, have always been deeply political. Demanding that the two be separated so that fans can enjoy sports in a "safe space" without having to critically think is woefully naive. how is that racist? do you even know what racism means? do you think materazzi really meant it by saying to zidane he wanted to screw his sister? or is it far more likely that he just said whatever would piss zidane off because theyre opponents in a heated match? people dont have to get offended by everything they hear. some people are gonna say stupid shit that pisses you off and theres nothing you can do about it. either let it get to you or dont. if the team actually forfeited the match in order to bring attention to the issue, then thats their choice. but they didnt forfeit the match did they? in fact, i dont recall a match being forfeited by a team boycotting the game for various reasons in a long time. its becoming a habit now that teams just walk off the field for whatever reason because they know there wont be repercussions and its become dangerous. lets not pretend like the players thought there really was something at stake when they walked off. only when they were told that they really might be forced to forfeit did they come back on the pitch. as for professional footballers not owing us entertainment, thats just blatantly wrong. where do you think they get their million dollar paychecks? tv rights, shirt sales, sponsorships, ticket sales etc. their entire profession is funded by the viewer like you and me who pay for them to play at a high and professional standard. its one thing for a club's official position to be that the players boycott a game or wont play under certain conditions, its another for a player or group of players to take it upon themselves and walk off the pitch of an official match with no repercussions. leave the disclipining to the official bodies; players shouldnt be taking matters into their own hands. its also not their call whether a match gets played or not. it doesnt seem like a big issue now because we have no fans in stadiums, but if a player walked off because he was offended and refused to play further when 70,000 fans are expecting a game, he better be paying back the ticket fees out of his own pocket. and i think its pretty funny you think that its naive to think that fans should be able to enjoy sports without politics. i think its naive to expect a couple millionaire footballers boycotting games because of some racist remarks to actually have any impact. Essentially, your argument is: "My right to enjoy sport without without politics is more important than a black player's right not be racially abused at work." Personally, I disagree. We all wish it wasn't necessary for teams to walk off, but after decades of campaigning against racial abuse at football matches, still very little is actually done to prevent it, because FIFA doesn't want to piss off racists, so it has come to this. ummm no? my argument is that the players' obligations to the stakeholders of the sport trump whether hes been personally offended by another player. if he wants to take matters into his own hands, walk off the pitch alone or punch on with the offender if you have to. the players dont have the right to decide whether a match is played further or not and they should never feel like they have the power to do so, no matter what their cause is. again, racism is everywhere. literally a worldwide problem that can be found anywhere you look. 99% of people dont combat racism by deciding that theyre not going to do their job because they want to have a whinge. footballers should be no different. bringing attention to the matter is all well and fine but boycotting a match isnt the way to do it Your language is telling. The racially abused players are just 'having a whinge'. Yuck. Clearly you don't understand the issue of racism in the slightest. We decided as a society a while ago that nothing justifies racist abuse. You seem to have been left behind on this. No, a player's obligation to a stakeholder, or a boss, or anyone else, does not mean they have to sit and take racist abuse. You are just wrong about that.
im an asian living in a "white country". dont tell me what i do and dont know about racism because i can guarantee you ive experienced it far more than you have. that doesnt mean im going to break down at every remark made against me and be unable to carry on with my day.
and when did i say the racism was justified? being able to ignore the words of a random guy and move on isnt equivalent to accepting what happened was right. what part of that dont you understand? the footballer has certain responsibilities placed upon him and its up to him to live up to them. you cant just decide that youre having a bad day at the office because someone hurt your feelings and so you refuse to do your job. the racist remarks is one matter and you fulfilling your responsibilities to the people you owe it to is a separate matter.
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Individual players don't decide if a game is played or not. Their teammates being decent human beings and standing in solidarity with them do.
The players risk a forfeit whenever they don't play. It's up to the referees/governing bodies to punish them. They make the wise decision not to do so because punishing players for protesting racism is a terrible, terrible PR move.
Again, players owe you nothing. If you don't like their actions, stop buying merchandise or going to their games. Companies are readily capable of cancelling endorsements if they don't like the players' actions. Teams are easily capable of witholding pay from players that don't play if they want to.
You sound like those comic book nerds that whine about superhero movies getting "too political" when literally the entire foundation of comics was political. This is no different in sports. Athletics have been incredibly political since their inception. You don't get to indulge in the athletic spectacle that POC are capable of putting on while demanding that they stay silent in their own oppression. That is horrendously selfish.
Also, this should go without saying, but being a POC doesn't mean you automatically understand racism or that you don't contribute to racism. I'm sure that the most cursory Google search with bring up an abundance of historical examples of this.
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On April 05 2021 22:33 evilfatsh1t wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2021 22:24 Jockmcplop wrote:On April 05 2021 22:07 evilfatsh1t wrote:On April 05 2021 21:42 Jockmcplop wrote:On April 05 2021 21:30 evilfatsh1t wrote:On April 05 2021 20:55 Stratos_speAr wrote:On April 05 2021 19:51 evilfatsh1t wrote:On April 05 2021 19:22 Liquid`Drone wrote:
Alternatively, imagine having your colleagues hurl racial abuse your way and your boss being like 'oh well deal with it bro'.
I really don't understand your framing here. Clearly the issue is the racism, not the response to the racism. thats not a very good comparison? the governing body of the league still should be dealing with these issues, with fines or bans or whatever. your boss doesnt send everyone home and close shop because one of your coworkers was abused. and call me cold but i think its pretty pathetic that professional footballers who play in a competition are so easily hurt by some words said in the heat of the moment. if anyone thinks that footballers dont talk shit to each other at all levels of competition just to piss each other off, theyre dreaming. trying to tilt your opposition is part of the game and although racial abuse isnt acceptable if youre triggered so easily by your opponent to the point that you cant carry on with the game, youre in the wrong profession. then again, were in the age where players are encouraged more and more to be like neymar so i guess my expectations are out of date now. You're correct that these comments make you look cold. They also just make you look like a terrible person. Racist abuse isn't "trying to tilt your opponent". It's a facet of a racist culture that perpetuates the abuse and dehumanization of POC. The idea that people should "just suck it up and play through it" is disgustingly racist and bigoted in-and-of-itself.These people aren't working in an essential social industry like healthcare or law enforcement where society needs the people to work through these kinds of situations; they're playing a fucking game. Walking off of the field is 100000% the correct thing to do; it brings attention to the issue and forces governing bodies to take it seriously. The team is already taking a risk because they are essentially forfeiting the game by walking off, but doing this brings awareness to the issue when the governing bodies of football at all levels have been entirely too complacent in this behavior in the past. It forces governing bodies to respond to the issue (since they rarely use to respond in any meaningful way) or suffer a massive PR backlash. Professional athletes don't owe you anything in terms of entertainment, and they most certainly shouldn't be told to "just shut up and play". Athletes in any sport, at all levels, do not have to sit through bigoted abuse for entertainment, and they are absolutely right to use their platform to fight against hatred like this. The idea of "shut up and play" is a disgusting level of entitlement leveled by people that are made uncomfortable by talking about social issues. Sports, just like comics and other nerd things, have always been deeply political. Demanding that the two be separated so that fans can enjoy sports in a "safe space" without having to critically think is woefully naive. how is that racist? do you even know what racism means? do you think materazzi really meant it by saying to zidane he wanted to screw his sister? or is it far more likely that he just said whatever would piss zidane off because theyre opponents in a heated match? people dont have to get offended by everything they hear. some people are gonna say stupid shit that pisses you off and theres nothing you can do about it. either let it get to you or dont. if the team actually forfeited the match in order to bring attention to the issue, then thats their choice. but they didnt forfeit the match did they? in fact, i dont recall a match being forfeited by a team boycotting the game for various reasons in a long time. its becoming a habit now that teams just walk off the field for whatever reason because they know there wont be repercussions and its become dangerous. lets not pretend like the players thought there really was something at stake when they walked off. only when they were told that they really might be forced to forfeit did they come back on the pitch. as for professional footballers not owing us entertainment, thats just blatantly wrong. where do you think they get their million dollar paychecks? tv rights, shirt sales, sponsorships, ticket sales etc. their entire profession is funded by the viewer like you and me who pay for them to play at a high and professional standard. its one thing for a club's official position to be that the players boycott a game or wont play under certain conditions, its another for a player or group of players to take it upon themselves and walk off the pitch of an official match with no repercussions. leave the disclipining to the official bodies; players shouldnt be taking matters into their own hands. its also not their call whether a match gets played or not. it doesnt seem like a big issue now because we have no fans in stadiums, but if a player walked off because he was offended and refused to play further when 70,000 fans are expecting a game, he better be paying back the ticket fees out of his own pocket. and i think its pretty funny you think that its naive to think that fans should be able to enjoy sports without politics. i think its naive to expect a couple millionaire footballers boycotting games because of some racist remarks to actually have any impact. Essentially, your argument is: "My right to enjoy sport without without politics is more important than a black player's right not be racially abused at work." Personally, I disagree. We all wish it wasn't necessary for teams to walk off, but after decades of campaigning against racial abuse at football matches, still very little is actually done to prevent it, because FIFA doesn't want to piss off racists, so it has come to this. ummm no? my argument is that the players' obligations to the stakeholders of the sport trump whether hes been personally offended by another player. if he wants to take matters into his own hands, walk off the pitch alone or punch on with the offender if you have to. the players dont have the right to decide whether a match is played further or not and they should never feel like they have the power to do so, no matter what their cause is. again, racism is everywhere. literally a worldwide problem that can be found anywhere you look. 99% of people dont combat racism by deciding that theyre not going to do their job because they want to have a whinge. footballers should be no different. bringing attention to the matter is all well and fine but boycotting a match isnt the way to do it Your language is telling. The racially abused players are just 'having a whinge'. Yuck. Clearly you don't understand the issue of racism in the slightest. We decided as a society a while ago that nothing justifies racist abuse. You seem to have been left behind on this. No, a player's obligation to a stakeholder, or a boss, or anyone else, does not mean they have to sit and take racist abuse. You are just wrong about that. im an asian living in a "white country". dont tell me what i do and dont know about racism because i can guarantee you ive experienced it far more than you have. that doesnt mean im going to break down at every remark made against me and be unable to carry on with my day. and when did i say the racism was justified? being able to ignore the words of a random guy and move on isnt equivalent to accepting what happened was right. what part of that dont you understand? the footballer has certain responsibilities placed upon him and its up to him to live up to them. you cant just decide that youre having a bad day at the office because someone hurt your feelings and so you refuse to do your job. the racist remarks is one matter and you fulfilling your responsibilities to the people you owe it to is a separate matter.
You seem to think people at work are slaves.
If I was abused at work, I am free to go home. I might face consequences for doing so, but they can't strap me down and force me to work.
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On April 05 2021 22:37 Stratos_speAr wrote:
Individual players don't decide if a game is played or not. Their teammates being decent human beings and standing in solidarity with them do.
The players risk a forfeit whenever they don't play. It's up to the referees/governing bodies to punish them. They make the wise decision not to do so because punishing players for protesting racism is a terrible, terrible PR move.
Again, players owe you nothing. If you don't like their actions, stop buying merchandise or going to their games. Companies are readily capable of cancelling endorsements if they don't like the players' actions. Teams are easily capable of witholding pay from players that don't play if they want to.
You sound like those comic book nerds that whine about superhero movies getting "too political" when literally the entire foundation of comics was political. This is no different in sports. Athletics have been incredibly political since their inception. You don't get to indulge in the athletic spectacle that POC are capable of putting on while demanding that they stay silent in their own oppression. That is horrendously selfish.
Also, this should go without saying, but being a POC doesn't mean you automatically understand racism or that you don't contribute to racism. I'm sure that the most cursory Google search with bring up an abundance of historical examples of this.
thats exactly the whole thing wrong with this. the players' decision to walk off the pitch is objectively against the rules. it should lead to disciplinary action either against the players or against the club. however due to pr pressure this wont happen and the players know it, which opens up the opportunity for this to be abused and players' deciding if games are to be played or not by simply walking off under the "there was racist abuse" excuse. the governing bodies are unable to enforce their own laws because it would make them look like shit and thats the biggest issue here.
the players dont owe me, personally, anything of course. they do however owe their fans and the club and walking off the pitch, while it is a good pr move, is simply against the rules. if the governing body did the opposite of what people expect and actually enforced action, you could bet your ass there would be people within the club who instruct players to never walk off the pitch again. they just wouldnt be public about it because like you said, bad pr move.
if a club spokesman, ceo, manager etc instructed the players to walk off the pitch then thats fine. they can shoulder the responsibility of any action they might be on the end of. if the players walked off the pitch of their own volition at the expense of points, bans, fines etc then who claims responsibility? sure the player(s) might get reprimanded but in the end its the club and fans that take the bigger hit. therefore its irresponsible to just walk off the pitch without permission and decide you wont play the match anymore. do your duty and let others do theirs. two wrongs dont make a right
On April 05 2021 22:47 Jockmcplop wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2021 22:33 evilfatsh1t wrote:On April 05 2021 22:24 Jockmcplop wrote:On April 05 2021 22:07 evilfatsh1t wrote:On April 05 2021 21:42 Jockmcplop wrote:On April 05 2021 21:30 evilfatsh1t wrote:On April 05 2021 20:55 Stratos_speAr wrote:On April 05 2021 19:51 evilfatsh1t wrote:On April 05 2021 19:22 Liquid`Drone wrote:
Alternatively, imagine having your colleagues hurl racial abuse your way and your boss being like 'oh well deal with it bro'.
I really don't understand your framing here. Clearly the issue is the racism, not the response to the racism. thats not a very good comparison? the governing body of the league still should be dealing with these issues, with fines or bans or whatever. your boss doesnt send everyone home and close shop because one of your coworkers was abused. and call me cold but i think its pretty pathetic that professional footballers who play in a competition are so easily hurt by some words said in the heat of the moment. if anyone thinks that footballers dont talk shit to each other at all levels of competition just to piss each other off, theyre dreaming. trying to tilt your opposition is part of the game and although racial abuse isnt acceptable if youre triggered so easily by your opponent to the point that you cant carry on with the game, youre in the wrong profession. then again, were in the age where players are encouraged more and more to be like neymar so i guess my expectations are out of date now. You're correct that these comments make you look cold. They also just make you look like a terrible person. Racist abuse isn't "trying to tilt your opponent". It's a facet of a racist culture that perpetuates the abuse and dehumanization of POC. The idea that people should "just suck it up and play through it" is disgustingly racist and bigoted in-and-of-itself.These people aren't working in an essential social industry like healthcare or law enforcement where society needs the people to work through these kinds of situations; they're playing a fucking game. Walking off of the field is 100000% the correct thing to do; it brings attention to the issue and forces governing bodies to take it seriously. The team is already taking a risk because they are essentially forfeiting the game by walking off, but doing this brings awareness to the issue when the governing bodies of football at all levels have been entirely too complacent in this behavior in the past. It forces governing bodies to respond to the issue (since they rarely use to respond in any meaningful way) or suffer a massive PR backlash. Professional athletes don't owe you anything in terms of entertainment, and they most certainly shouldn't be told to "just shut up and play". Athletes in any sport, at all levels, do not have to sit through bigoted abuse for entertainment, and they are absolutely right to use their platform to fight against hatred like this. The idea of "shut up and play" is a disgusting level of entitlement leveled by people that are made uncomfortable by talking about social issues. Sports, just like comics and other nerd things, have always been deeply political. Demanding that the two be separated so that fans can enjoy sports in a "safe space" without having to critically think is woefully naive. how is that racist? do you even know what racism means? do you think materazzi really meant it by saying to zidane he wanted to screw his sister? or is it far more likely that he just said whatever would piss zidane off because theyre opponents in a heated match? people dont have to get offended by everything they hear. some people are gonna say stupid shit that pisses you off and theres nothing you can do about it. either let it get to you or dont. if the team actually forfeited the match in order to bring attention to the issue, then thats their choice. but they didnt forfeit the match did they? in fact, i dont recall a match being forfeited by a team boycotting the game for various reasons in a long time. its becoming a habit now that teams just walk off the field for whatever reason because they know there wont be repercussions and its become dangerous. lets not pretend like the players thought there really was something at stake when they walked off. only when they were told that they really might be forced to forfeit did they come back on the pitch. as for professional footballers not owing us entertainment, thats just blatantly wrong. where do you think they get their million dollar paychecks? tv rights, shirt sales, sponsorships, ticket sales etc. their entire profession is funded by the viewer like you and me who pay for them to play at a high and professional standard. its one thing for a club's official position to be that the players boycott a game or wont play under certain conditions, its another for a player or group of players to take it upon themselves and walk off the pitch of an official match with no repercussions. leave the disclipining to the official bodies; players shouldnt be taking matters into their own hands. its also not their call whether a match gets played or not. it doesnt seem like a big issue now because we have no fans in stadiums, but if a player walked off because he was offended and refused to play further when 70,000 fans are expecting a game, he better be paying back the ticket fees out of his own pocket. and i think its pretty funny you think that its naive to think that fans should be able to enjoy sports without politics. i think its naive to expect a couple millionaire footballers boycotting games because of some racist remarks to actually have any impact. Essentially, your argument is: "My right to enjoy sport without without politics is more important than a black player's right not be racially abused at work." Personally, I disagree. We all wish it wasn't necessary for teams to walk off, but after decades of campaigning against racial abuse at football matches, still very little is actually done to prevent it, because FIFA doesn't want to piss off racists, so it has come to this. ummm no? my argument is that the players' obligations to the stakeholders of the sport trump whether hes been personally offended by another player. if he wants to take matters into his own hands, walk off the pitch alone or punch on with the offender if you have to. the players dont have the right to decide whether a match is played further or not and they should never feel like they have the power to do so, no matter what their cause is. again, racism is everywhere. literally a worldwide problem that can be found anywhere you look. 99% of people dont combat racism by deciding that theyre not going to do their job because they want to have a whinge. footballers should be no different. bringing attention to the matter is all well and fine but boycotting a match isnt the way to do it Your language is telling. The racially abused players are just 'having a whinge'. Yuck. Clearly you don't understand the issue of racism in the slightest. We decided as a society a while ago that nothing justifies racist abuse. You seem to have been left behind on this. No, a player's obligation to a stakeholder, or a boss, or anyone else, does not mean they have to sit and take racist abuse. You are just wrong about that. im an asian living in a "white country". dont tell me what i do and dont know about racism because i can guarantee you ive experienced it far more than you have. that doesnt mean im going to break down at every remark made against me and be unable to carry on with my day. and when did i say the racism was justified? being able to ignore the words of a random guy and move on isnt equivalent to accepting what happened was right. what part of that dont you understand? the footballer has certain responsibilities placed upon him and its up to him to live up to them. you cant just decide that youre having a bad day at the office because someone hurt your feelings and so you refuse to do your job. the racist remarks is one matter and you fulfilling your responsibilities to the people you owe it to is a separate matter. You seem to think people at work are slaves. If I was abused at work, I am free to go home. I might face consequences for doing so, but they can't strap me down and force me to work.
thats fine. you would be held responsible for your actions.
these footballers walked off the pitch knowing they wouldnt held responsible for theirs. thats my point. the moment it was threatened that they would, they walked back on the pitch
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pretty sure if the ref red cards the racist attack then the players wouldnt have to walk off the pitch 
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51493 Posts
That is true, but in this case Sharkie ref said he heard nothing and none of his assistants either. Like Sneirac has said the only way you stamp this crap out of football on the pitch is like you say red card them but mic up the referee too that way it can be caught more.
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Northern Ireland25875 Posts
On April 05 2021 19:51 evilfatsh1t wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2021 19:22 Liquid`Drone wrote:
Alternatively, imagine having your colleagues hurl racial abuse your way and your boss being like 'oh well deal with it bro'.
I really don't understand your framing here. Clearly the issue is the racism, not the response to the racism. thats not a very good comparison? the governing body of the league still should be dealing with these issues, with fines or bans or whatever. your boss doesnt send everyone home and close shop because one of your coworkers was abused. and call me cold but i think its pretty pathetic that professional footballers who play in a competition are so easily hurt by some words said in the heat of the moment. if anyone thinks that footballers dont talk shit to each other at all levels of competition just to piss each other off, theyre dreaming. trying to tilt your opposition is part of the game and although racial abuse isnt acceptable if youre triggered so easily by your opponent to the point that you cant carry on with the game, youre in the wrong profession. then again, were in the age where players are encouraged more and more to be like neymar so i guess my expectations are out of date now.
They haven’t dealt with it, for fucking years, precisely why we’re getting to the stage teams are just walking off. Or taking the knee, or whatever gesture is being made currently really stems from a lack of cover from the authorities time and time again.
I’ve yet to hear footballers come out and demand a cessation to general banter and shit talk on the pitch, merely the rather reasonable desire not to be racially abused or have their colleagues racially abused, be it by supporters or especially not other professionals.
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