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Czech Republic12134 Posts
On June 25 2021 20:04 gTank wrote:
Funny how homophobia and racism is suddenly "political agenda".
"Of course everybody knows the situation in Hungary"
That's like literally the first sentence of the interview in the twitter. How is this not a political agenda when it's about a political subject? Tell me? Enlighten me?
Everybody's talking about Hungary but IT IS NOT POLITICAL!#@!#$!$!
If you talk about a political subject, aim at a political subject, then it is a political thing.
Also I wonder what all these NONPOLITICAL people will do the next year in Qatar, which is a country best known for human rights, LGBTQ+ and free spirit and certainly not for "other" things.
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See, that is the difference. I never even mentioned Hungary XD
Being against homophobia and racism is nothing political since people are not making a difference where that happens.
Besides, I am also against the WC 2022 in Qatar for your mentioned reasons but I doubt FIFA has any balls to do something against this when for them (and UEFA obviously too) money > everything else.
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Norway28915 Posts
Of course the pride stuff is political. I'm still entirely supportive of using football (or other sports) for making political statements, but there's no question that this is political in nature. Gay rights is a political question, and the current protests against Hungary are because they made a political decision that others disagree with.
The whole trying to distinguish 'political' statements from other statements or politics from the rest of society is an entirely failed endeavor anyway. Most things are political. Statements like as 'I don't want politics in sports' or 'people care too much about politics' are political.
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If they dont want to have anything involved, UEFA never should have changed their logo to rainbow colours claiming that they give a damn about LGBTQ rights in the first place.
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100% what plasma is saying. Proud to be a fellow arsenal fan!!
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On June 26 2021 00:28 plasmidghost wrote:
So my perspective as a trans woman on the UEFA stuff is this:
There's something we call "rainbow capitalism" that UEFA is currently doing. They change their logo to Pride colors, they mention that football is for everyone, and then when we're actively oppressed and have our rights stripped away in places like Poland and Hungary, they consider it a political statement to be against those countries' laws. UEFA doesn't care about us when we suffer and it's infuriating. Saying our rights is a political statement and thus can't be advocated for just sucks so much. Fuck them and fuck FIFA for giving the World Cup to Qatar.
Thank you! Human rights is never a political statement, it is basic human rights ffs.
I cant agree more!
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On June 26 2021 00:28 plasmidghost wrote:
So my perspective as a trans woman on the UEFA stuff is this:
There's something we call "rainbow capitalism" that UEFA is currently doing. They change their logo to Pride colors, they mention that football is for everyone, and then when we're actively oppressed and have our rights stripped away in places like Poland and Hungary, they consider it a political statement to be against those countries' laws. UEFA doesn't care about us when we suffer and it's infuriating. Saying our rights is a political statement and thus can't be advocated for just sucks so much. Fuck them and fuck FIFA for giving the World Cup to Qatar.
Yeah this is spot on. Agree completely. I wish one day we can get rid of both UEFA and FIFA and have the game become for the fans and players again.
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Northern Ireland27464 Posts
It is entirely the luxury of those who aren’t actively discriminated against in some way to be irritated by there being too much politics in sport, a rather globally shared platform.
I’m unsure if it’s a genuine inability or disingenuousness but, wow people really seem to struggle with the concept that basically all human activity is political in some shape or form. I’ll have people swearing blind to me that the poppy, an increasing subject of borderline derangement from a particular segment of England is not political, or the literal armed forces being honoured at an NFL game is not political, but taking a knee or wearing a rainbow band is.
Also 100% what plasmid said.
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On June 26 2021 02:29 sneakyfox wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2021 00:28 plasmidghost wrote:
So my perspective as a trans woman on the UEFA stuff is this:
There's something we call "rainbow capitalism" that UEFA is currently doing. They change their logo to Pride colors, they mention that football is for everyone, and then when we're actively oppressed and have our rights stripped away in places like Poland and Hungary, they consider it a political statement to be against those countries' laws. UEFA doesn't care about us when we suffer and it's infuriating. Saying our rights is a political statement and thus can't be advocated for just sucks so much. Fuck them and fuck FIFA for giving the World Cup to Qatar. Yeah this is spot on. Agree completely. I wish one day we can get rid of both UEFA and FIFA and have the game become for the fans and players again.
Okay, does that mean fans and players are allowed to celebrate with double eagle hand symbols, knit pictures of maps on disputed territories into jerseys, chant songs that relive old historical scars. and what not? Yes, there are laws against hate speech and incitement to violence, but the line between unlawful speech and political speech can be rather blurry.
Point is, sporting authorities have a tough time cutting this crap out of football (some may argue that such 'crap' is part of football and should stay). I'm not a big fan of UEFA (especially on the competition rules and format of major tournaments like Euro and Champions League), but let's cut them some slack on this complicated issue. Whatever decision they make will set a precedent, so they have to be extra careful to be consistent in their actions. and fair and neutral to all kinds of speech.
Personally, I feel sporting authorities shouldn't go on an aggressive active campaign to promote social causes. Sports is complicated as it is (VAR, away goal's rules, handball in the box, etc.), so let that be their focus. Get your own house in order first and protect the closest stakeholders first (players, fans, etc) before trying to save the rest of the world. Charity begins at home.
Not saying that I'm against promotion of LGBT rights and other forms of worthy social causes. There's a time and place for all that. Yes, one may say that major competitions are the best place to show off one's colours (due to the once-in-four-years global viewership boom), but perhaps a more incremental approach is more practical to avoid backlash and controversy that detracts from the competition itself.
(Anyway, I really don't want this thread to derail into politics, and hope we can all stay focused discussing on football. The 'General' forum is more appropriate for such discussions, imho. Maybe we can discuss politics off-season here once the tournament is done.)
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The guardian has made a power ranking. Pretty controversial with Portugal a head of Germany. Also Denmark 6 before big nations like England and Germany.
Power Ranking
No surprise in Italy nr 1
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On June 26 2021 14:10 Sapaio wrote:The guardian has made a power ranking. Pretty controversial with Portugal a head of Germany. Also Denmark 6 before big nations like England and Germany. Power RankingNo surprise in Italy nr 1
The PR is generally right on the ball, if the brackets are to be factored in (which explains Denmark in #6). But Portugal is still too highly rated (ironically, Belgium is probably the toughest opposition due to being burned by complacency in last Euro and will be super focused). Germany, England and Spain further lower down the rung is appropriate.
For me, the enigma is France. They've been producing results without hitting top gear. Are they saving their energy and tactical cards up their sleeves? Or have they really given their all and struggling? If they continue playing the way they do, I'm not surprised if Switzerland can even land a sucker punch to knock them out (France have a habit and history of collapsing in embarrassing fashion after a big championship win).
The bottom bracket is bound to spring a few surprises. England and Germany must be already thinking "Okay, after this RO16 match, free run into SF".
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On June 26 2021 14:40 RKC wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2021 14:10 Sapaio wrote:The guardian has made a power ranking. Pretty controversial with Portugal a head of Germany. Also Denmark 6 before big nations like England and Germany. Power RankingNo surprise in Italy nr 1 The PR is generally right on the ball, if the brackets are to be factored in (which explains Denmark in #6). But Portugal is still too highly rated (ironically, Belgium is probably the toughest opposition due to being burned by complacency in last Euro and will be super focused). Germany, England and Spain further lower down the rung is appropriate. For me, the enigma is France. They've been producing results without hitting top gear. Are they saving their energy and tactical cards up their sleeves? Or have they really given their all and struggling? If they continue playing the way they do, I'm not surprised if Switzerland can even land a sucker punch to knock them out (France have a habit and history of collapsing in embarrassing fashion after a big championship win). The bottom bracket is bound to spring a few surprises. England and Germany must be already thinking "Okay, after this RO16 match, free run into SF".
I think the bottom 3 are probably in the wrong order, but nobody really cares. Putting the debutant above more powerful nations that really disappointed this tournament makes sense.
The top teams seem about right. Maybe a bit charitable to Denmark, but they did channel the loss of Eriksen admirably well.
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On June 26 2021 03:26 WombaT wrote:
It is entirely the luxury of those who aren’t actively discriminated against in some way to be irritated by there being too much politics in sport, a rather globally shared platform.
This is a very touchy thing and I'm not really if a TL forum is a place to talk about it, but I've had some very unpleasant and long term life and health affecting things happen to me. Meanwhile my issues are not the hot topic of the social media and that makes such a big difference in how people & media approach the subject. Some of the worst neglect and ignorance I've had has been from strongly liberal & green & political left people who haven't been able to operate on anything outside their hot topics and instant emotional payoffs even when it's their responsibility.
Due to that, some of the self-righteuousness makes me feel a bit uneasy. I don't really like how we are drawn into these big dramatic gestures that are easy to tweet & instagram and give instant emotional conclusion right away. They don't really deepen our understanding that much and don't really make us much more considerate or aware as people. In general I think we are doing a really crappy job at genuinely helping out people & solving issues in this world, especially considering how much noise we are making of it.
So yeah, I don't think it's a good idea to neglect the opposition completely as bunch of spoiled kids with zero emotional range and inablility to relate to anyone with trouble. If anything, my troubles have made me much more conservative and reclutant to join the general crowd in this kind of activity.
That being said, I think lighting the stadium would probably have been quite alright. I'm not sure what kind of precedent it would've set and whether that could lead to some less well meaning expressions in the future, but as others have pointed out, some level of politics are almost always involved with sports and this one seemed pretty well aimed at the issue. I just don't feel we should treat anything like this as completely straightforward good vs evil thing or so.
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Predictions:
Denmark wins 2:1
Italy wins 3:0
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On June 26 2021 20:39 DropBear wrote:
Predictions:
Denmark wins 2:1
Italy wins 3:0
Same pretty much!
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Northern Ireland27464 Posts
@RKC, agreed I think UEFA especially (more so than FIFA probably) do get a bit too much flak in negotiating these waters in some degrees.
People do tend to forget that there was a rather nasty civil war in Europe with serious ethnic components within many of our lifetimes. A lid has largely been kept on those specific kinds of tensions that still simmer coming out in the sporting realm.
Predictions, hm. Think Italy will win comfortably, heart is going Wales but head probably gives Denmark to shade it. Perhaps 2-1
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51493 Posts
On June 26 2021 14:10 Sapaio wrote:The guardian has made a power ranking. Pretty controversial with Portugal a head of Germany. Also Denmark 6 before big nations like England and Germany. Power RankingNo surprise in Italy nr 1
Only issue i have with it is Denmark are too high, they should be "best of the rest" per se behind England, Spain and Germany.
Having Portugal above Germany is fine by me, outside that game, Portugal have looked good and Germany have looked awful.
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Do you think France has done enough to warrant the 2nd position? Results wise a draw against Hungary and draw against Portugal aided by a very soft penalty are a bit shaky.
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I predict 3-1 for Denmark and 2-0 for Italy.
Think France is ranked so high because of glimpse of the potential. I personally have ranked Belgium 2. The form De Bruyne and Lukaku has shown I really can't see a team preventing them scoring
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EPT
