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On October 10 2020 10:46 GTR wrote:
is there some eastern european historical antagonism im missing here?
Correct me if I'm wrong. I think I get it
Hungary and Poland are very close allies, they have Poland/Hungary friendship day and had a whole year of Poland/Hungary solidarity in 2016.
It's come to the pointy end in Hungary's group, them Wales and slovaks are pretty much level with 1 slot undecided and 2 games to go. I think this dude is implying that a polish referee will favour Hungary to try and get them over the line? Idk
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On October 11 2020 17:51 DropBear wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2020 10:46 GTR wrote:
is there some eastern european historical antagonism im missing here? Correct me if I'm wrong. I think I get it Hungary and Poland are very close allies, they have Poland/Hungary friendship day and had a whole year of Poland/Hungary solidarity in 2016. It's come to the pointy end in Hungary's group, them Wales and slovaks are pretty much level with 1 slot undecided and 2 games to go. I think this dude is implying that a polish referee will favour Hungary to try and get them over the line? Idk
It seems absurd. Dutch referees have overseen games by Belgium and vice versa with no controversy. Hell, I even think a Welsh referee could oversee an England or Scotland game, although I couldn't find a football example. I did find plenty of rugby examples, and claiming the Nations League is higher profile than the rugby Six Nations Cup would be... weird.
Also, what's that about Wales and Slovakia? Are you confused with about a year ago and the conclusion of the Eurocup Qualifiers? :D
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@acrofales yeah I probably am lol
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51493 Posts
Lol alot of shit to take in but i can't see it going through anyway, i mean i bet Chelsea would be behind it but there would be too many people opposing it in the premier league and that is where it would need to pass. Even though it looks like it would shit on the EFL they need the money, they are getting a huge cash pay out if they accept this and so does the FA so it won't be blocked there i can't see.
Still interesting times ahead.
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United Kingdom10011 Posts
That's the problem with the Premier League.
Its too hard for poor Man United.
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Are there any examples of a league like the one in these proposals? It would leave only half the teams (9 out 18) in the competition with voting rights, which seems super duper suspicious.
Revenue share is probably better for the EFL teams, but teams on the bottom half of the premier league table and top of championship would only stand to lose out in this kind of system as far as I understood it. It just looks like a mad power grab in exchange to a share of premier league TV money going to lower leagues.
And if the B teams are allowed into the league system that'd further increase dominance of the top clubs. No doubt premier league teams can have a B team in league one level, pushing another club out of the money spots there.
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Giving power to half the teams seems like a terrible idea. They chose 9 clubs so they'd have a chance of this happening?What happens if Southampton relegate next year?
Getting rid of 1 of the cups seems like a good idea though.
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51493 Posts
Its basically giving all the power to the top 6 clubs and giving all the cash to the top 6 clubs too. In return the EFL gets to survive in this terrible time with no fans, B teams won't need to happen because you can now loan out 15 players and the premier league competition is devalued because less teams and less competition.
It is a shame that Liverpool and Yanited have tried to do this, makes them look really bad even though the rest of the top 6 would follow suit as it benefits them.
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On October 12 2020 22:49 Oukka wrote:
Are there any examples of a league like the one in these proposals? It would leave only half the teams (9 out 18) in the competition with voting rights, which seems super duper suspicious.
Revenue share is probably better for the EFL teams, but teams on the bottom half of the premier league table and top of championship would only stand to lose out in this kind of system as far as I understood it. It just looks like a mad power grab in exchange to a share of premier league TV money going to lower leagues.
And if the B teams are allowed into the league system that'd further increase dominance of the top clubs. No doubt premier league teams can have a B team in league one level, pushing another club out of the money spots there.
The revenue share may be a good thing but we don't know how long it would last. If the big 6 decided to stop it after a few years, would anybody be able to stop them? If not, those revenue sharing conditions are meaningless.
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On October 13 2020 02:21 Pandemona wrote:
Its basically giving all the power to the top 6 clubs and giving all the cash to the top 6 clubs too. In return the EFL gets to survive in this terrible time with no fans, B teams won't need to happen because you can now loan out 15 players and the premier league competition is devalued because less teams and less competition.
It is a shame that Liverpool and Yanited have tried to do this, makes them look really bad even though the rest of the top 6 would follow suit as it benefits them.
Doesn't the average level, thus the competitiveness, rise when you cut out the two bottom teams?
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Ronaldo has tested positive for COVID-19.
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51493 Posts
On October 13 2020 17:57 clusen wrote:Show nested quote +On October 13 2020 02:21 Pandemona wrote:
Its basically giving all the power to the top 6 clubs and giving all the cash to the top 6 clubs too. In return the EFL gets to survive in this terrible time with no fans, B teams won't need to happen because you can now loan out 15 players and the premier league competition is devalued because less teams and less competition.
It is a shame that Liverpool and Yanited have tried to do this, makes them look really bad even though the rest of the top 6 would follow suit as it benefits them. Doesn't the average level, thus the competitiveness, rise when you cut out the two bottom teams?
The top 6 might get better in terms of competitiveness between itself, but the likes of a Wolves, Leicester and say Everton would change very fast as the money they would receive would shrink very fast and very quickly. Thus they would be forced to sell their stars to the top 6 teams to be able to then go and buy talented kids from Europe to then lose them to the top 6 again etc lol.
I mean if you took out two bottom teams this season you would get a more competitive league for sure, but in 3 years time it would be less competitive due to they wouldn't have the financial muscle to play like they have now. I mean look at West Ham, i thought they had no money left and will be spending around £60 million on new players this summer if the Benrahma and King deals go through. They had no money and been battling relegation for years.
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Germany is so pathetic and there is absolutely no excuse with the personnel that they have.
Starting lineup:
Werner
Gnabry-Goretzka-Havertz
Kimmich-Kroos
Gosens-Rudiger-Ginter-Klostermann
Neuer
Everyone except for that back 4 is a world class player.
Players on the bench or generally available to the team:
-Reus
-Brandt
-Hummels
-Sule
-Muller
-Ter Stegen
-Sane
-Gundogan
-Can
-Draxler
-Several other great youngsters
Put in Hummels and Sule and the only remote weakness you have in that lineup are the fullbacks. Consistently underwhelming and not being able to confidently beat teams like Ukraine and Switzerland is 100% a coaching failure.
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actually I think the problem is other than Neuer they have 0 leaders on the field. Where are the hummels/Müller/schweinsteiger type of players who take responsibility?
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On October 14 2020 04:24 sharkie wrote:
actually I think the problem is other than Neuer they have 0 leaders on the field. Where are the hummels/Müller/schweinsteiger type of players who take responsibility?
While that is an issue, I think that's far from the primary issue. Kimmich and Kroos can be leaders. There's something much more significant that has to explain such consistently underwhelming performances.
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Rudiger is bad and has no place on this team.
Werner tries to do way too much and needs to learn to pass faster.
Low is way too arrogant and complacent and, as has been mentioned for years now, needs to be fired.
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Well we have a variety of issues. Starting from the fact that certain players don't have the quality you'd expect to be necessary for the national team, let alone be a starter there. Then there's the fact that Löw has very few opportunities to test things and try out new players. These Nations League games are about the only chance, so he gives a lot of players chances and tries out different systems and ideas. Of course those things aren't always going to work out in the first attempt but it's not as if he could easily try them a few more times. First time things don't go well the public turns on the team immediately. But he is completely right to make these experiments in these games that aren't important.
The issue that arises from it though is that even the theoretical best 11 almost never play together. They're together a few days at a time at most, and for actual matches are commonly separated and used as a core Löw builds his experiments around (to avoid complete disasters). And I would think that it's hard to play well as a team when you almost never play as a team.
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On October 14 2020 05:51 Elentos wrote:
Well we have a variety of issues. Starting from the fact that certain players don't have the quality you'd expect to be necessary for the national team, let alone be a starter there. Then there's the fact that Löw has very few opportunities to test things and try out new players. These Nations League games are about the only chance, so he gives a lot of players chances and tries out different systems and ideas. Of course those things aren't always going to work out in the first attempt but it's not as if he could easily try them a few more times. First time things don't go well the public turns on the team immediately. But he is completely right to make these experiments in these games that aren't important.
The issue that arises from it though is that even the theoretical best 11 almost never play together. They're together a few days at a time at most, and for actual matches are commonly separated and used as a core Löw builds his experiments around (to avoid complete disasters). And I would think that it's hard to play well as a team when you almost never play as a team.
These are issues for literally every national team for any country ever.
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On October 14 2020 08:23 Stratos_speAr wrote:Show nested quote +On October 14 2020 05:51 Elentos wrote:
Well we have a variety of issues. Starting from the fact that certain players don't have the quality you'd expect to be necessary for the national team, let alone be a starter there. Then there's the fact that Löw has very few opportunities to test things and try out new players. These Nations League games are about the only chance, so he gives a lot of players chances and tries out different systems and ideas. Of course those things aren't always going to work out in the first attempt but it's not as if he could easily try them a few more times. First time things don't go well the public turns on the team immediately. But he is completely right to make these experiments in these games that aren't important.
The issue that arises from it though is that even the theoretical best 11 almost never play together. They're together a few days at a time at most, and for actual matches are commonly separated and used as a core Löw builds his experiments around (to avoid complete disasters). And I would think that it's hard to play well as a team when you almost never play as a team. These are issues for literally every national team for any country ever.
Well I would say unlike Germany, most teams aren't expected to win every single game they ever play. Especially when the head coach is restructuring the team. Which is not to say that I think Löw is doing everything right naturally. It was idiotic for him to say Boateng, Hummels and Müller will never play under him again. He's not going to go back on that. That's his second biggest mistake directly after not stepping down once he won the World Cup. At that point he finally had the public on his side and he could have retired as a legendary head coach for Germany who got top 4s in everything and a WC win.
I don't think there's any risk of him getting fired though. He's probably got enough pull behind the scenes to survive if the Euros go terribly. Unless he goes on his own volition.
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EPT
