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LennX
4568 Posts
On March 24 2024 13:10 GTR wrote: i bet no one had verstappen retiring from the race first on their bingo card I had Max winning 20 races in a row... And Bottas having another pit issue ouchie lol Hamilton engine died | ||
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Penev
28524 Posts
Max was driving "with the hand brake on" lol | ||
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Penev
28524 Posts
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GTR
51583 Posts
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Penev
28524 Posts
E: Interesting race, I wonder if Max could've dominated. I kinda doubt it. Now back to bed lol | ||
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Excludos
Norway8251 Posts
On one hand, I'm certain Fernando knew what he was doing. But on the other hand, this is (imo) just clever defending. I don't think there should be rules that says you have to take a corner a certain way. If he wanted to slow down early to get a different exit that lets him defend an attack better, then he should be allowed to. I really don't think agency to take a corner differently than "the one expected line" should be taken away from the drivers, but it seems it is, in the name of safety. Also, lol at Gunther being the one doing the post-race interviews, and Leclerc not understanding a word he was saying. | ||
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LennX
4568 Posts
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mderg
Germany1740 Posts
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Excludos
Norway8251 Posts
On March 25 2024 01:28 mderg wrote: I'm very happy Fernando got a harsh penalty. What he did is really dangerous Explain to me in your words why you think what he did was dangerous, without looking up comments from other people. I want you to think critically about this for a second | ||
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Lmui
Canada6223 Posts
Lifting + light braking that early is an intentional maneuver, much as swerving in the braking zone is. It's similar to this incident which also caused an accident. Slowing outside a braking zone is really, really unexpected. As a driver, you know how much relative speed you should have, and how much grip to expect. While you can make minor changes to expectations pretty easily, if expectations change drastically, you have to reprocess the situation, and Russell didn't have the time to do that with disastrous consequences. Edit:: To be very clear. What Alonso did was brake check Russell, not any normal racing maneuver. | ||
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mderg
Germany1740 Posts
On March 25 2024 01:59 Excludos wrote: Explain to me in your words why you think what he did was dangerous, without looking up comments from other people. I want you to think critically about this for a second he went like 50 kph slower than usual on a fast part of the track. If you're behind someone going at high speeds everything unexpected the car ahead does is dangrous. | ||
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Excludos
Norway8251 Posts
On March 25 2024 03:17 mderg wrote: he went like 50 kph slower than usual on a fast part of the track. If you're behind someone going at high speeds everything unexpected the car ahead does is dangrous. I mean this in the most non-condescending way I can, but I suspect you don't watch a lot of other motorsports, or drive any yourself (or simracing). Driving a bit slow to catch your opponent off so he has to brake at an unoptimal time is completely common defensive driving. There is no rule that you need to take a corner perfectly, or have to use the perfect line. Of course, you can't brake check someone, but that's not what Fernando did either. He braked a bit early to coast into the corner (again, normal), realised it was too early, got back on the throttle, and then braked once more once he got a few meter closer. If you go to any other motorsport, this happens every, single, race. (Certain F1 drivers used to do it in every single corner back in the day, because they were worried about failing brakes) The argument isn't that this is super dangerous driving, but that you shouldn't do this specifically in F1 for dirty air reasons. Personally I think George got caught out and made a mistake, and it's far from the first time that happens. You can't take agency away from the drivers to drive their own lines and make defensive moves. That would be ridiculous. I think a lot of the people who are screaming about this (and there are a lot) needs to notch it down a level and realize they don't know enough about the subject to be screaming as loud as they are. | ||
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Excludos
Norway8251 Posts
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mderg
Germany1740 Posts
On March 25 2024 04:41 Excludos wrote: I mean this in the most non-condescending way I can, but I suspect you don't watch a lot of other motorsports, or drive any yourself (or simracing). Driving a bit slow to catch your opponent off so he has to brake at an unoptimal time is completely common defensive driving. There is no rule that you need to take a corner perfectly, or have to use the perfect line. Of course, you can't brake check someone, but that's not what Fernando did either. He braked a bit early to coast into the corner (again, normal), realised it was too early, got back on the throttle, and then braked once more once he got a few meter closer. If you go to any other motorsport, this happens every, single, race. (Certain F1 drivers used to do it in every single corner back in the day, because they were worried about failing brakes) The argument isn't that this is super dangerous driving, but that you shouldn't do this specifically in F1 for dirty air reasons. Personally I think George got caught out and made a mistake, and it's far from the first time that happens. You can't take agency away from the drivers to drive their own lines and make defensive moves. That would be ridiculous. I think a lot of the people who are screaming about this (and there are a lot) needs to notch it down a level and realize they don't know enough about the subject to be screaming as loud as they are. https://twitter.com/LouisDeletraz/status/1771931692380323971 Your first reply already sounded pretty condescending to me. For the record I watch a lot of motorsports and have done thousands of hours of simracing at a pretty high level. If it was what you described it would be perfectly fine but it wasn't. Only an amateur would brake this early to coast into the corner and only then realize it was too early. You can alter your line a bit or brake a few meters early just fine but this was way too much. He braked over 50 meters earlier than normal for a corner that only requires a small tap on the brakes, then he accelerated and went on the brakes again (still earlier than normal). I also don't really see this in any other motorsports. What happens a lot is lift and coast but that's also quite different from what happened here. | ||
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Excludos
Norway8251 Posts
On March 25 2024 06:29 mderg wrote: Your first reply already sounded pretty condescending to me. For the record I watch a lot of motorsports and have done thousands of hours of simracing at a pretty high level. If it was what you described it would be perfectly fine but it wasn't. Only an amateur would brake this early to coast into the corner and only then realize it was too early. You can alter your line a bit or brake a few meters early just fine but this was way too much. He braked over 50 meters earlier than normal for a corner that only requires a small tap on the brakes, then he accelerated and went on the brakes again (still earlier than normal). I also don't really see this in any other motorsports. What happens a lot is lift and coast but that's also quite different from what happened here. The reason I said it wasn't just to be a dick, but because people who actually know what they're talking about ar usually able to articulate why they think that way, instead of sounding like they're basing their opinions on vague feelings. But alright, I'll take it back. To actually meet your arguments: It does happen all the time in other motorsports. Heck, you used to see it commonly in F1 a number of years back, where they would test their brakes early to check if they were still alive. Of course, that's not a smoking gun or anything, F1 80 years ago isn't F1 today. However you still see it commonly in other motorsports for an absolute variety of reasons. If you have thousands of hours in simracing, I'm shocked you pretend you don't see it every single race. You have a 4 season F2 driver and WEC champion telling you as much in the tweet I linked above, and while that is the definition of appealing to authority, sometimes that's completely fine when the authority is the expert in the subject. | ||
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mderg
Germany1740 Posts
On March 25 2024 07:40 Excludos wrote: The reason I said it wasn't just to be a dick, but because people who actually know what they're talking about ar usually able to articulate why they think that way, instead of sounding like they're basing their opinions on vague feelings. But alright, I'll take it back. To actually meet your arguments: It does happen all the time in other motorsports. Heck, you used to see it commonly in F1 a number of years back, where they would test their brakes early to check if they were still alive. Of course, that's not a smoking gun or anything, F1 80 years ago isn't F1 today. However you still see it commonly in other motorsports for an absolute variety of reasons. If you have thousands of hours in simracing, I'm shocked you pretend you don't see it every single race. You have a 4 season F2 driver and WEC champion telling you as much in the tweet I linked above, and while that is the definition of appealing to authority, sometimes that's completely fine when the authority is the expert in the subject. You don't see anything like this in simracing, not even close. In simracing this move would definitely be punished every time. Usually the stewards are more harsh than in real life racing. You also don't really see it in real motorsports. You see either slight variations how the corner is taken or you see lift and coast. This is none of that. I don't really care what Louis Deletraz thinks about it. It's not like there is a huge amount of drivers complaining about the penalty. Drivers disagree about racing standards all the time, so picking out the one who disagrees with the penalty doesn't mean much. The stewards are usually also very experienced and successful racing drivers and people disagree with them all the time (including other racing drivers). | ||
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Mikau
Netherlands1446 Posts
On March 25 2024 01:59 Excludos wrote: Explain to me in your words why you think what he did was dangerous, without looking up comments from other people. I want you to think critically about this for a second If you need somebody to explain to you why brake-checking is dangerous it's probably you who needs to think critically about this for a second. | ||
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Excludos
Norway8251 Posts
On March 25 2024 16:03 Mikau wrote: If you need somebody to explain to you why brake-checking is dangerous it's probably you who needs to think critically about this for a second. If you're going to ignore several posts worth of discussion just to get a dig in, I'm not going to reply as if you're arguing in good faith | ||
FlaShFTW
United States10376 Posts
If it was what you described it would be perfectly fine but it wasn't. Only an amateur would brake this early to coast into the corner and only then realize it was too early. You can alter your line a bit or brake a few meters early just fine but this was way too much. He braked over 50 meters earlier than normal for a corner that only requires a small tap on the brakes, then he accelerated and went on the brakes again (still earlier than normal). I also don't really see this in any other motorsports. What happens a lot is lift and coast but that's also quite different from what happened here. This is pretty much how I see it too. Fernando is the most experienced driver on the track. He knew exactly what he was doing, he didn't just "miss" his breaking point or was trying to "test" his brakes. | ||
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Aristodemus
England2010 Posts
He's a great driver over the years you have seen his true colours, this is just another example. | ||
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