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if the Bucks get out of the 1st round i wonder if they'll consider their coaching change decision a success? i wonder if that means Prunty has a full time job?
On April 21 2018 10:29 funnybananaman wrote:
Got the raptors winning it all this year for their first franchise title. Calling it now. Go raps
not without VanVleet. MLSE is good at hiding injuries. However, the truth is finally out after 11 days. FVV has a separated shoulder. It happened April 11. Blake Murphy did a nice investigative piece in "The Athletic" unravelling the trail of BS to get to the facts about FVV's injury. Once "The Athletic" published Murphy's article the Raptors finally came clean.
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On April 22 2018 18:29 xwoGworwaTsx wrote:
it;s so difficult to find the levelheaded middle ground with james because stans will say he is muh goat 4evr and haters will say he is a statpadder who got saved by wade allen and kyrie.
im not saying i disagree with you but you imply that lebron cant anymore take over jordan as #1?
and im always wary about stat comparisons being a statistician by profession but dont you think its a legitimate basis in comparing players instead of this killer instinct and owning responsibility thing people always bring up?
Lebron brought this upon himself. He anointed himself as the king, and is striving for greatness to be better than MJ.
But to address your points, may I answer them with an honest question?
Objectively statistically speaking, how does MJ's 6-6 and LBJ's 3-8 finals record factor into the goat discussion?
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CLE-IND will be great later! I hope I can stay awake for it.
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On April 23 2018 07:02 Twinkle Toes wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2018 18:29 xwoGworwaTsx wrote:
it;s so difficult to find the levelheaded middle ground with james because stans will say he is muh goat 4evr and haters will say he is a statpadder who got saved by wade allen and kyrie.
im not saying i disagree with you but you imply that lebron cant anymore take over jordan as #1?
and im always wary about stat comparisons being a statistician by profession but dont you think its a legitimate basis in comparing players instead of this killer instinct and owning responsibility thing people always bring up? Lebron brought this upon himself. He anointed himself as the king, and is striving for greatness to be better than MJ. But to address your points, may I answer them with an honest question? Objectively statistically speaking, how does MJ's 6-6 and LBJ's 3-8 finals record factor into the goat discussion?
I'd say it's more impressive if Lebron goes 5-10 in finals. I think failed finals is underrated in a lot of sports, because playoffs that end short of them are almost never taken into account.
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On April 23 2018 07:02 Twinkle Toes wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2018 18:29 xwoGworwaTsx wrote:
it;s so difficult to find the levelheaded middle ground with james because stans will say he is muh goat 4evr and haters will say he is a statpadder who got saved by wade allen and kyrie.
im not saying i disagree with you but you imply that lebron cant anymore take over jordan as #1?
and im always wary about stat comparisons being a statistician by profession but dont you think its a legitimate basis in comparing players instead of this killer instinct and owning responsibility thing people always bring up? Lebron brought this upon himself. He anointed himself as the king, and is striving for greatness to be better than MJ. But to address your points, may I answer them with an honest question? Objectively statistically speaking, how does MJ's 6-6 and LBJ's 3-8 finals record factor into the goat discussion?
I think its stupid to look at it that way. Whether you lose in the finals or in the WCF/ECF or 2nd round or 1st round is irrelevant to me. You weren't the best team, and its fairly random when you face the best team.
The sole reason people bring up his poor finals record as a knock against Lebron is because the Lebronites bring up his # of finals appearances as if its impressive. Its basically the Lebron sychophant's first thing they bring up (Nick Wright is an example of such a creature), "8 straight finalssssssssss 111!"
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Wiz//Raptors went 2-2 in 4 really tough and close games. The Wizards had no Wall and no Lawson. During that 2-2 regular season series FVV played in 3 of the 4 games and the Raptors were 2-1.
So the Wizards should win this series with the Raptors.
On April 23 2018 06:52 JimmiC wrote:
There is no grand conspiracy with injuries. Team just keep the info close to the vest to not give their opponents the info. Hockey is worse they just call it upper body or lower body
you do not require a grand conspiracy. The Raptors owners own 95% of the media that covers the team. The media they own shuts up. Media not owned by the Raptors, Leafs, and TFC are always the ones who figure out what the real injury problems are to guys like Matthews and VanVleet.
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Raptors missing those prized young players is killing them.
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On April 23 2018 07:37 cLutZ wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2018 07:02 Twinkle Toes wrote:On April 22 2018 18:29 xwoGworwaTsx wrote:
it;s so difficult to find the levelheaded middle ground with james because stans will say he is muh goat 4evr and haters will say he is a statpadder who got saved by wade allen and kyrie.
im not saying i disagree with you but you imply that lebron cant anymore take over jordan as #1?
and im always wary about stat comparisons being a statistician by profession but dont you think its a legitimate basis in comparing players instead of this killer instinct and owning responsibility thing people always bring up? Lebron brought this upon himself. He anointed himself as the king, and is striving for greatness to be better than MJ. But to address your points, may I answer them with an honest question? Objectively statistically speaking, how does MJ's 6-6 and LBJ's 3-8 finals record factor into the goat discussion? I think its stupid to look at it that way. Whether you lose in the finals or in the WCF/ECF or 2nd round or 1st round is irrelevant to me. You weren't the best team, and its fairly random when you face the best team. The sole reason people bring up his poor finals record as a knock against Lebron is because the Lebronites bring up his # of finals appearances as if its impressive. Its basically the Lebron sychophant's first thing they bring up (Nick Wright is an example of such a creature), "8 straight finalssssssssss 111!"
Nick Wright is terrible.
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On April 23 2018 07:37 cLutZ wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2018 07:02 Twinkle Toes wrote:On April 22 2018 18:29 xwoGworwaTsx wrote:
it;s so difficult to find the levelheaded middle ground with james because stans will say he is muh goat 4evr and haters will say he is a statpadder who got saved by wade allen and kyrie.
im not saying i disagree with you but you imply that lebron cant anymore take over jordan as #1?
and im always wary about stat comparisons being a statistician by profession but dont you think its a legitimate basis in comparing players instead of this killer instinct and owning responsibility thing people always bring up? Lebron brought this upon himself. He anointed himself as the king, and is striving for greatness to be better than MJ. But to address your points, may I answer them with an honest question? Objectively statistically speaking, how does MJ's 6-6 and LBJ's 3-8 finals record factor into the goat discussion? I think its stupid to look at it that way. Whether you lose in the finals or in the WCF/ECF or 2nd round or 1st round is irrelevant to me. You weren't the best team, and its fairly random when you face the best team. The sole reason people bring up his poor finals record as a knock against Lebron is because the Lebronites bring up his # of finals appearances as if its impressive. Its basically the Lebron sychophant's first thing they bring up (Nick Wright is an example of such a creature), "8 straight finalssssssssss 111!"
Except it's not very random at all when you face the best team. The deeper you go in the playoffs the more likely it is you're going to face the best team. If we're defining the best team as the team that wins the championship then if you make it to the finals there is a 100% chance of facing the best team (or you are the best team). If you lost in the first round it's not very likely you've faced the best team unless you were the 1 team out of the other 15 that was seeded against them.
I have no problem with people bringing up LeBron's record in the finals as an argument against his legacy. 6-0 is better than 3-5. A lot better. That's indisputable. What I do have a problem is with this contingent of people that honestly believe that 3-0 in the finals is better than 3-5 in the finals. Or the people that say LeBron can never catch Jordan because Jordan is undefeated in the finals. Word? Never? So even if LeBron plays until he is 40 and wins 7 more rings making him 10-5 in the finals, 6-0 is still better? It's not even just random moron fans that say these things. You can even hear it from formers players, and so called "analysts." It's ridiculous.
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Night of upsets.
All 4 teams that won tonight shouldve lost.
How about that Lebron 2 plays to Korver and then the icing spin move to secure the game!
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On April 23 2018 11:17 BlackJack wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2018 07:37 cLutZ wrote:On April 23 2018 07:02 Twinkle Toes wrote:On April 22 2018 18:29 xwoGworwaTsx wrote:
it;s so difficult to find the levelheaded middle ground with james because stans will say he is muh goat 4evr and haters will say he is a statpadder who got saved by wade allen and kyrie.
im not saying i disagree with you but you imply that lebron cant anymore take over jordan as #1?
and im always wary about stat comparisons being a statistician by profession but dont you think its a legitimate basis in comparing players instead of this killer instinct and owning responsibility thing people always bring up? Lebron brought this upon himself. He anointed himself as the king, and is striving for greatness to be better than MJ. But to address your points, may I answer them with an honest question? Objectively statistically speaking, how does MJ's 6-6 and LBJ's 3-8 finals record factor into the goat discussion? I think its stupid to look at it that way. Whether you lose in the finals or in the WCF/ECF or 2nd round or 1st round is irrelevant to me. You weren't the best team, and its fairly random when you face the best team. The sole reason people bring up his poor finals record as a knock against Lebron is because the Lebronites bring up his # of finals appearances as if its impressive. Its basically the Lebron sychophant's first thing they bring up (Nick Wright is an example of such a creature), "8 straight finalssssssssss 111!" Except it's not very random at all when you face the best team. The deeper you go in the playoffs the more likely it is you're going to face the best team. If we're defining the best team as the team that wins the championship then if you make it to the finals there is a 100% chance of facing the best team (or you are the best team). If you lost in the first round it's not very likely you've faced the best team unless you were the 1 team out of the other 15 that was seeded against them. I have no problem with people bringing up LeBron's record in the finals as an argument against his legacy. 6-0 is better than 3-5. A lot better. That's indisputable. What I do have a problem is with this contingent of people that honestly believe that 3-0 in the finals is better than 3-5 in the finals. Or the people that say LeBron can never catch Jordan because Jordan is undefeated in the finals. Word? Never? So even if LeBron plays until he is 40 and wins 7 more rings making him 10-5 in the finals, 6-0 is still better? It's not even just random moron fans that say these things. You can even hear it from formers players, and so called "analysts." It's ridiculous.
Internet consensus seems to be that Lebron had an easier path to the finals (Hawks, Toronto, Pacers, who else?) while having more difficult finals opponents (beautiful game 2014 Spurs, alleged goat team 2015-7 Warriors), while MJ went to the grindhouse (Knicks, Detroit, Heat, Pacers) and got relatively easier finals opponents (Chuck Suns, Drexler Portland, old LA).
The merit of the 6-0 argument though is that it proves Jordan as a winner, mamba mentality before kobe made it up, and didnt know how to lose. As a specific reference, Jordan would rather die on the court that be caught with the many instances Lebron is criticized for, like losing to Mavs, scoring less than 10 points in a finals game, giving up on his team, and all the off the court drama such as jumping ship, the decision, posseing TT's and JR's contracts and gutting the Cavs of valuable talent, etc.
To be clear though, I don't think MJ is untouchable, and definitely not that Lebon has no more chance to be #1. I'm just saying that after the Heat stint and losing to the Mavs and Spurs in his prime, and now realizing he is not as young and dominant anymore against the rising powers in GSW, HOU, and soon PHI, TOR, PHX, and MIL, realistically the goat conversation has slipped him. There is a way for him to still grab that #1 goat title, and that is if he wins this championship now, thereby carrying what seems as the weakest team he's ever had since his first 5 years with the Cavs. That would put him above Kobe and equal to MJ. If he can then maintain his performance and win another one, regardless of the circumstance (except maybe joining Harden CP3 Rockets or Durant Curry Warriors), then he is undisputed goat.
Going back to my original intention with the stats question, I wonder how statisticians or more specifically sports statisticians view the MJ-LBJ comparison based on stats, since even the interpretation of those things is a controversial topic.
PS. Yeah fuck nick wright
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On April 23 2018 12:26 Twinkle Toes wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2018 11:17 BlackJack wrote:On April 23 2018 07:37 cLutZ wrote:On April 23 2018 07:02 Twinkle Toes wrote:On April 22 2018 18:29 xwoGworwaTsx wrote:
it;s so difficult to find the levelheaded middle ground with james because stans will say he is muh goat 4evr and haters will say he is a statpadder who got saved by wade allen and kyrie.
im not saying i disagree with you but you imply that lebron cant anymore take over jordan as #1?
and im always wary about stat comparisons being a statistician by profession but dont you think its a legitimate basis in comparing players instead of this killer instinct and owning responsibility thing people always bring up? Lebron brought this upon himself. He anointed himself as the king, and is striving for greatness to be better than MJ. But to address your points, may I answer them with an honest question? Objectively statistically speaking, how does MJ's 6-6 and LBJ's 3-8 finals record factor into the goat discussion? I think its stupid to look at it that way. Whether you lose in the finals or in the WCF/ECF or 2nd round or 1st round is irrelevant to me. You weren't the best team, and its fairly random when you face the best team. The sole reason people bring up his poor finals record as a knock against Lebron is because the Lebronites bring up his # of finals appearances as if its impressive. Its basically the Lebron sychophant's first thing they bring up (Nick Wright is an example of such a creature), "8 straight finalssssssssss 111!" Except it's not very random at all when you face the best team. The deeper you go in the playoffs the more likely it is you're going to face the best team. If we're defining the best team as the team that wins the championship then if you make it to the finals there is a 100% chance of facing the best team (or you are the best team). If you lost in the first round it's not very likely you've faced the best team unless you were the 1 team out of the other 15 that was seeded against them. I have no problem with people bringing up LeBron's record in the finals as an argument against his legacy. 6-0 is better than 3-5. A lot better. That's indisputable. What I do have a problem is with this contingent of people that honestly believe that 3-0 in the finals is better than 3-5 in the finals. Or the people that say LeBron can never catch Jordan because Jordan is undefeated in the finals. Word? Never? So even if LeBron plays until he is 40 and wins 7 more rings making him 10-5 in the finals, 6-0 is still better? It's not even just random moron fans that say these things. You can even hear it from formers players, and so called "analysts." It's ridiculous. Internet consensus seems to be that Lebron had an easier path to the finals (Hawks, Toronto, Pacers, who else?) while having more difficult finals opponents (beautiful game 2014 Spurs, alleged goat team 2015-7 Warriors), while MJ went to the grindhouse (Knicks, Detroit, Heat, Pacers) and got relatively easier finals opponents (Chuck Suns, Drexler Portland, old LA). The merit of the 6-0 argument though is that it proves Jordan as a winner, mamba mentality before kobe made it up, and didnt know how to lose. As a specific reference, Jordan would rather die on the court that be caught with the many instances Lebron is criticized for, like losing to Mavs, scoring less than 10 points in a finals game, giving up on his team, and all the off the court drama such as jumping ship, the decision, posseing TT's and JR's contracts and gutting the Cavs of valuable talent, etc. To be clear though, I don't think MJ is untouchable, and definitely not that Lebon has no more chance to be #1. I'm just saying that after the Heat stint and losing to the Mavs and Spurs in his prime, and now realizing he is not as young and dominant anymore against the rising powers in GSW, HOU, and soon PHI, TOR, PHX, and MIL, realistically the goat conversation has slipped him. There is a way for him to still grab that #1 goat title, and that is if he wins this championship now, thereby carrying what seems as the weakest team he's ever had since his first 5 years with the Cavs. That would put him above Kobe and equal to MJ. If he can then maintain his performance and win another one, regardless of the circumstance (except maybe joining Harden CP3 Rockets or Durant Curry Warriors), then he is undisputed goat. PS. Yeah fuck nick wright
"that would put him above Kobe..."
lol
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Yes, I repeat: Kobe is still above LBJ at the moment. LBJ has momentum of recency bias and fans <10 years old who havent seen Kobe play.
I'm willing to argue this rationally, are you, beyond your "lol" comment?
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On April 23 2018 11:17 BlackJack wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2018 07:37 cLutZ wrote:On April 23 2018 07:02 Twinkle Toes wrote:On April 22 2018 18:29 xwoGworwaTsx wrote:
it;s so difficult to find the levelheaded middle ground with james because stans will say he is muh goat 4evr and haters will say he is a statpadder who got saved by wade allen and kyrie.
im not saying i disagree with you but you imply that lebron cant anymore take over jordan as #1?
and im always wary about stat comparisons being a statistician by profession but dont you think its a legitimate basis in comparing players instead of this killer instinct and owning responsibility thing people always bring up? Lebron brought this upon himself. He anointed himself as the king, and is striving for greatness to be better than MJ. But to address your points, may I answer them with an honest question? Objectively statistically speaking, how does MJ's 6-6 and LBJ's 3-8 finals record factor into the goat discussion? I think its stupid to look at it that way. Whether you lose in the finals or in the WCF/ECF or 2nd round or 1st round is irrelevant to me. You weren't the best team, and its fairly random when you face the best team. The sole reason people bring up his poor finals record as a knock against Lebron is because the Lebronites bring up his # of finals appearances as if its impressive. Its basically the Lebron sychophant's first thing they bring up (Nick Wright is an example of such a creature), "8 straight finalssssssssss 111!" Except it's not very random at all when you face the best team. The deeper you go in the playoffs the more likely it is you're going to face the best team. If we're defining the best team as the team that wins the championship then if you make it to the finals there is a 100% chance of facing the best team (or you are the best team). If you lost in the first round it's not very likely you've faced the best team unless you were the 1 team out of the other 15 that was seeded against them. I have no problem with people bringing up LeBron's record in the finals as an argument against his legacy. 6-0 is better than 3-5. A lot better. That's indisputable. What I do have a problem is with this contingent of people that honestly believe that 3-0 in the finals is better than 3-5 in the finals. Or the people that say LeBron can never catch Jordan because Jordan is undefeated in the finals. Word? Never? So even if LeBron plays until he is 40 and wins 7 more rings making him 10-5 in the finals, 6-0 is still better? It's not even just random moron fans that say these things. You can even hear it from formers players, and so called "analysts." It's ridiculous.
I think you undersell the randomness, at least in the modern age of one conference being clearly superior, of facing great teams. You look at a team like the Clippers with CP3, if they had bounced around from division to division it's possible they make a few finals just because they stop facing teams like the Dubs, Thunder, &Rockets that are bad matchups.
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On April 23 2018 12:39 Twinkle Toes wrote:
Yes, I repeat: Kobe is still above LBJ at the moment. LBJ has momentum of recency bias and fans <10 years old who havent seen Kobe play.
I'm willing to argue this rationally, are you, beyond your "lol" comment?
Had to log in for this one and it is laughable. Kobe is just not above Lebron. They've played the same number of playoffs games, 220 to 221, and Lebron's numbers are way ahead. Both have also given up in playoff series (phoenix g7) so you don't really have that. Kobe's just less efficient, less able to involve teammates and relies on his clutch mamba mentality myth, which is simply high volume 30ish% heroball late in games and when he made them it added to the confirmation bias. If the game's on the line there's no question I'd want current Lebron over any era Kobe. Lebron's shot over 50% from the field in 7 playoff runs. Kobe's done it 0 times with less rebounds and WAY less assists. Lebron has also carried 2 of the all-time worst rosters to participate in the finals, which shouldn't be a knock against him. On the other hand you have Kobe who wasn't even the best player on his team for 3/5 finals.
Let's see this rational argument.
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Seeker
Where dat snitch at?37125 Posts
I don't really follow basketball anymore but I noticed that #6 seeded NO Pelicans roflstomped the #3 seeded Portland Trail Blazers... WTF happened there?
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EPT
