EPT2017 - 2018 Football Thread - Page 33
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evilfatsh1t
Australia8930 Posts
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zev318
Canada4306 Posts
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evilfatsh1t
Australia8930 Posts
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Liquid`Drone
Norway28910 Posts
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sneirac
Germany3464 Posts
On August 22 2017 08:25 nayumi wrote: Not that Ramos hasn't been a cunt all his life but how is that a second yellow? Well take it in the context that i saw only 15 minutes of first half of the match but my guess would be: a) looked much worse in live than in the replays b) he was on a yellow and 15 warnings c) someone interpreted him doing this in 94th minute in 3-0 game as intentional, tho then it should have probably been a red | ||
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Dante08
Singapore4189 Posts
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Bacillus
Finland2115 Posts
On August 22 2017 21:33 Dante08 wrote: Always been curious on this, how come Barcelona never get any big name managers and instead always promote someone from within the club? Part of it has to do with the certain kind of footballing identity, ideology and tradition they have. They have a very strong connection to Cruyff-era Ajax football and take great pride in developing players to that ideology in their academy. For example Guardiola, Messi, Xavi and Iniesta are all products of that academy. With the football ideology being strongly supported by the Catalan culture itself, you pretty much need someone 'from the inside' to represent and uphold that culture as team's manager. I don't know if there are other factors involved, but the tradition definitely plays a part. | ||
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Rebs
Pakistan10726 Posts
On August 22 2017 22:15 Bacillus wrote: Part of it has to do with the certain kind of footballing identity, ideology and tradition they have. They have a very strong connection to Cruyff-era Ajax football and take great pride in developing players to that ideology in their academy. For example Guardiola, Messi, Xavi and Iniesta are all products of that academy. With the football ideology being strongly supported by the Catalan culture itself, you pretty much need someone 'from the inside' to represent and uphold that culture as team's manager. I don't know if there are other factors involved, but the tradition definitely plays a part. Ehh I dont know about always. The only coaches that played for the club and were groomed on the inside with the "Ajax Influence" are Pep and Luis Enrique, and both had very different philosophies (and were very different players aswell). Valverde is just a good coach, his time in Barcelona may aswell be irrelevant. It wasnt much of note. | ||
Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51493 Posts
As for me Pochettino is the best manager in the game to take over and he wasn't considered at all, mainly because he managed and player for Espanyol of course but still he has the best ideology and youth commitment which should be highly applauded at Barcelona. | ||
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Rebs
Pakistan10726 Posts
On August 22 2017 22:29 Pandemona wrote: Isn't it since this president has come in they have only had Barcelona/Catalan managers come in? People who have played or are from the area are coaches of the club? As for me Pochettino is the best manager in the game to take over and he wasn't considered at all, mainly because he managed and player for Espanyol of course but still he has the best ideology and youth commitment which should be highly applauded at Barcelona. No the previous one appointed Pep, it was probably the Hail Mary of the century as far as those sorts of decisions go. Barca had no culture of no name coaches "coming out of the system'" before then . Nothing notable anyway outside of the Cruyff years and even some of those were pretty mediocre. | ||
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51493 Posts
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Rebs
Pakistan10726 Posts
On August 22 2017 22:51 Pandemona wrote: Yeah i thought it was the one from last 10 years who has done it or said he was going to at least? Maybe i miss read, but since Pep they have all been products of Barcelona anyway xD which is 2008 - Present Martino and Valverde are not Barcelona products. Not as managers anyway, they just had some familiarity and involvement with the club in the past. Completely nominal in the current scheme of things. But yes the vast majority of it has been Pep and Ironman so its reasonable that it is indeed the preferred type of coach. Again they just got Valverde because hes a good coach, not because he is from the system necessarily. In the context of the larger History Madrid has more of a culture of bringing players and managers out of the system than Barcelona does, the script has only flipped maybe in the last decade. During the 2000's both teams were trying to do to the galacticos thing Madrid were just better at it. And prior to Florez if you look at the history of Marque signings and Barcelona has probably made more (with lesser success overall). So its a bit fresh to romanticize the whole value, culture and traditions as some age old thing in my opinion anyway. Its something that was planted in the early 90's and didnt actually become a thing till like 10 years ago. And it may just die again because you dont produce players like Xavi and Iniesta all the time. Its unrealistic. | ||
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Bacillus
Finland2115 Posts
On August 22 2017 22:24 Rebs wrote: Ehh I dont know about always. The only coaches that played for the club and were groomed on the inside with the "Ajax Influence" are Pep and Luis Enrique, and both had very different philosophies (and were very different players aswell). Valverde is just a good coach, his time in Barcelona may aswell be irrelevant. It wasnt much of note. Yeah, for the clarity it's not a strict rule or such, but it's still a pretty clear repeating theme on the Barcelona system. Van Gaal, Rijkaard and Cryuff are all connected to Ajax while Guardiola, Villanova and Luis Enrique entered the position from inside the Barcelona system itself. There are a few odd ones from various backgrounds there too, but there's still a pretty clear theme going on most of the managerial picks. | ||
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Rebs
Pakistan10726 Posts
On August 22 2017 23:07 Bacillus wrote: Yeah, for the clarity it's not a strict rule or such, but it's still a pretty clear repeating theme on the Barcelona system. Van Gaal, Rijkaard and Cryuff are all connected to Ajax while Guardiola, Villanova and Luis Enrique entered the position from inside the Barcelona system itself. There are a few odd ones from various backgrounds there too, but there's still a pretty clear theme going on most of the managerial picks. These are two different themes that mark two different phases of the general approach the club took. These are not repeating themes. | ||
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Bacillus
Finland2115 Posts
On August 22 2017 23:13 Rebs wrote: These are two different themes that mark two different phases of the general approach the club took. These are not repeating themes. I'm not totally sure how you view this, but I don't think you can call them completely separate phases. From the La Masia (Barcelona Academy) wikipedia page: Former technical director, Pep Segura, attributes the club's success to its "philosophy of play": "It is about creating one philosophy, one mentality, from the bottom of the club to the top". The philosophy consists of the application of total football mixed with traditional Spanish one-touch play (tiqui-taka). The total football approach was derived from the Netherlands football team through Cruyff. | ||
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Rebs
Pakistan10726 Posts
On August 22 2017 23:26 Bacillus wrote: I'm not totally sure how you view this, but I don't think you can call them completely separate phases. From the La Masia (Barcelona Academy) wikipedia page: You found a wiki page, good job. You will also find countless interviews and documentaries of various representatives romanticizing this facet aswell. Its pretty typical backward rationalization because you have to explain your success as some genius that you credit your culture and philospy for. And thats fine, because its good branding and its something that can remain attached to the club no matter where the individuals involved with it go. If you had actually seen them playing the last twenty years it would kinda scream at you that its not something they "always wanted to do". They sorta fell into it because certain people like Pep had ideas beyond just the basic dutch style or total football or whatever you want to call it. The lucked into Pep, thats basically it. If you are going to sit here and tell me that Van Gaal and Rijkjaard teams played anything like the Barca teams of the last decade i just have to laugh sorry. + Show Spoiler + The one touch play isnt just about the quick passing nor is it just about total footbal what brings them together is that its also about overloading parts of the field so that the defense gets drawn in and effectively shrinks the play area so you h have more room on the weak side (The side the ball isnt in) should you manage to break the press that you have basically forced the other team to make. Atleast when a team is trying to actively take the ball of you. Obviously doesnt work all that well when teams sit back (but nothing does). | ||
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Acrofales
Spain18464 Posts
On August 22 2017 23:13 Rebs wrote: These are two different themes that mark two different phases of the general approach the club took. These are not repeating themes. Well, the two clubs (Ajax and Barça) are historically pretty closely intertwined, and Pep and Luis Enrique are both Cruyff proteges (and played under v. Gaal too). Pep in particular owes much of his coaching philosophy to the Dutch school, with tiki taka being a modern resurrection of total football. Saying they are different themes is thus a bit weird. It's basically the same theme: betting on the foundations layed in the Cruyff years. If anything is a different theme, it's the choice now for Ernesto Valverde, who was probably contracted precisely because he's an excellent coach, but not from the same "clique". | ||
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Rebs
Pakistan10726 Posts
On August 22 2017 23:43 Acrofales wrote: Well, the two clubs are pretty closely intertwined, and Pep and Luis Enrique are both Cruyff proteges (and played under v. Gaal too). Pep in particular owes much of his coaching philosophy to the Dutch school, with tiki taka being a modern resurrection of total football. Saying they are different themes is thus a bit weird. It's basically the same theme: betting on the foundations layed in the Cruyff years. If anything is a different theme, it's the choice now for Ernesto Valverde, who was probably contracted precisely because he's an excellent coach, but not from the same "clique". That is fascinating considering Luis Enrique never actually played for Cruyff. Look I am not downplaying Cruyffs influence. I worship him almost as much as the next guy. If dutch football didnt exist I probably wouldnt be a fan of the game. The point was that this idea that Barcelona has always had this culture of bringing people form the within the club is flawed. Then it got extended to well actually -- its the Ajax - Barca Cruyff connection and it was planned all along because thats the clique and the spirit and the culture etc etc. Its not because they tried other things in between that failed miserably. So the managers never ended up staying. So to suggest that it was an active decision to do so because of the clubs culture is wrong. And that is down mostly to the people who run the club who are a bit of a joke. | ||
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51493 Posts
Kick off times 18:45 GMT (+00:00) - Apart from Celtic they kick off 15:30 GMT (+00:00) ![[image loading]](https://puu.sh/xgBkt/f87137830a.png) | ||
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zev318
Canada4306 Posts
On August 22 2017 14:39 evilfatsh1t wrote: he looks better than hes been for the last 3 years with us. thats where the salt comes from i didnt watch all of the game, but i think it was clear that he's been asked to play way more up the field, like actually in an offensive position. while most man u game i saw, he was very deep back. | ||
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