|
|
On December 21 2017 00:19 evilfatsh1t wrote:Show nested quote +On December 21 2017 00:02 Rebs wrote:On December 20 2017 17:57 Pandemona wrote:
But still that isn't fact Mourinho hasn't spent alot either i concede but he also won alot without spending it. Show me Pep winning champions league without Messi Xavi or Iniesta :D
How much did Pep spend on Xavi, Iniesta and Messi ? There are plenty of ways to discredit Mou's achievments aswell but doing that would make one just as bad as you. Here is an example of the kind of thing you are doing. See spoiler. + Show Spoiler +
Mou is great at making average teams good at winning against Monaco, fucking Monaco. In what is widely considered the weakest CL season. Also United got Cheated out of the Porto tie. Pretty sure Carvalho tore of enough knickers and shirts to clothe an african village for Charity.
For anyone who remembers, it was dirty and it was ugly. Just like Mou's philosophy about football in general.
but he lets all forget that and stare at the travesty that was Barca - Chelsea. Thats the real important one.
Well played bravo, he da best.
pep discovering great players at his club doesnt make him a great manager. a great scout or coach maybe, but your argument doesnt change the fact that he has only managed world class players and employs a style that can only be pulled off by such players. a very common characteristic in management in any industry is adaptability and pep has zero. in fact in whichever club he goes to the club and its players have to adapt to him and if you cant then youre cut. hes good at what he does when hes allowed to do it, but thats exactly why he is yet to prove himself as one of the greatest. hes never been in a situation where he wasnt allowed the freedom he requires
That's a farcical argument at best. No one is arguing he doesnt need good players to play the way he plays. but he is also taken good players and made them great players. Unless you think Raheem Sterling was the best winger in the league coming into this season ? Dude's passing was as bad (if not worse) than Lukaku.
By your logic Big Sam best manager of all time, followed closely by Claudio Ranieri. Wait. wait. Lets not forget my boy's Otto and whats that bald guy again.. the greatest Chelsea coach of all time, uhhh Di Mateo (#Playersmanager)
I am not sure what adaptability in other industries has to do with this situation, management in industry is quite different form managing a sports team. Also when your way of doing things is producing the best results, I see no reason to adapt.
Also your first statement and the following caveat dont jive. Maybe a typo, dono.
Edit: Actually the more I think about it, the stupider it sounds. "This guy is only good at his job when he is allowed to do what he wants to do." Uhmmm ok ?
|
On December 21 2017 00:23 Rebs wrote:Show nested quote +On December 21 2017 00:19 evilfatsh1t wrote:On December 21 2017 00:02 Rebs wrote:On December 20 2017 17:57 Pandemona wrote:
But still that isn't fact Mourinho hasn't spent alot either i concede but he also won alot without spending it. Show me Pep winning champions league without Messi Xavi or Iniesta :D
How much did Pep spend on Xavi, Iniesta and Messi ? There are plenty of ways to discredit Mou's achievments aswell but doing that would make one just as bad as you. Here is an example of the kind of thing you are doing. See spoiler. + Show Spoiler +
Mou is great at making average teams good at winning against Monaco, fucking Monaco. In what is widely considered the weakest CL season. Also United got Cheated out of the Porto tie. Pretty sure Carvalho tore of enough knickers and shirts to clothe an african village for Charity.
For anyone who remembers, it was dirty and it was ugly. Just like Mou's philosophy about football in general.
but he lets all forget that and stare at the travesty that was Barca - Chelsea. Thats the real important one.
Well played bravo, he da best.
pep discovering great players at his club doesnt make him a great manager. a great scout or coach maybe, but your argument doesnt change the fact that he has only managed world class players and employs a style that can only be pulled off by such players. a very common characteristic in management in any industry is adaptability and pep has zero. in fact in whichever club he goes to the club and its players have to adapt to him and if you cant then youre cut. hes good at what he does when hes allowed to do it, but thats exactly why he is yet to prove himself as one of the greatest. hes never been in a situation where he wasnt allowed the freedom he requires That's a farcical argument at best. No one is arguing he doesnt need good players to play the way he plays. but he is also taken good players and made them great players. Unless you think Raheem Sterling was the best winger in the league coming into this season ? Dude's passing was as bad (if not worse) than Lukaku. By your logic Big Sam best manager of all time, followed closely by Claudio Ranieri. I am not sure what adaptability in other industries has to do with this situation, management in industry is quite different form managing a sports team. Also when your way of doing things is producing the best results, I see no reason to adapt.
claudio ranieri is a manager i would definitely give special mention to. to do what he did with the kind of club he was at, theres no denial there was moments of genius from top to bottom at leicester city the entire season.
and no one isnt saying hes a good coach or scout. thats not the point of a manager though so im not sure why youre reinforcing those points. again, pep has always had great players and massive resources at his disposal.
also if you dont think management in a sports team requires adaptability then theres no point even discussing this any further. just shows you have zero clue what management even is and you have no idea what youre talking about
|
On December 21 2017 00:32 evilfatsh1t wrote:Show nested quote +On December 21 2017 00:23 Rebs wrote:On December 21 2017 00:19 evilfatsh1t wrote:On December 21 2017 00:02 Rebs wrote:On December 20 2017 17:57 Pandemona wrote:
But still that isn't fact Mourinho hasn't spent alot either i concede but he also won alot without spending it. Show me Pep winning champions league without Messi Xavi or Iniesta :D
How much did Pep spend on Xavi, Iniesta and Messi ? There are plenty of ways to discredit Mou's achievments aswell but doing that would make one just as bad as you. Here is an example of the kind of thing you are doing. See spoiler. + Show Spoiler +
Mou is great at making average teams good at winning against Monaco, fucking Monaco. In what is widely considered the weakest CL season. Also United got Cheated out of the Porto tie. Pretty sure Carvalho tore of enough knickers and shirts to clothe an african village for Charity.
For anyone who remembers, it was dirty and it was ugly. Just like Mou's philosophy about football in general.
but he lets all forget that and stare at the travesty that was Barca - Chelsea. Thats the real important one.
Well played bravo, he da best.
pep discovering great players at his club doesnt make him a great manager. a great scout or coach maybe, but your argument doesnt change the fact that he has only managed world class players and employs a style that can only be pulled off by such players. a very common characteristic in management in any industry is adaptability and pep has zero. in fact in whichever club he goes to the club and its players have to adapt to him and if you cant then youre cut. hes good at what he does when hes allowed to do it, but thats exactly why he is yet to prove himself as one of the greatest. hes never been in a situation where he wasnt allowed the freedom he requires That's a farcical argument at best. No one is arguing he doesnt need good players to play the way he plays. but he is also taken good players and made them great players. Unless you think Raheem Sterling was the best winger in the league coming into this season ? Dude's passing was as bad (if not worse) than Lukaku. By your logic Big Sam best manager of all time, followed closely by Claudio Ranieri. I am not sure what adaptability in other industries has to do with this situation, management in industry is quite different form managing a sports team. Also when your way of doing things is producing the best results, I see no reason to adapt. claudio ranieri is a manager i would definitely give special mention to. to do what he did with the kind of club he was at, theres no denial there was moments of genius from top to bottom at leicester city the entire season. and no one isnt saying hes a good coach or scout. thats not of a manager though so im not sure why youre reinforcing those points. again, pep has always had great players and massive resources at his disposal. also if you dont think management in a sports team requires adaptability then theres no point even discussing this any further. just shows you have zero clue what management even is and you have no idea what youre talking about
I didnt say it didnt require adaptability. Not sure where you got that from. It shows you have zero reading skills. I said adaptability in other industries has nothing to do with the needs of a football team. You also talk as if you have a clue as to whether there is no adapting from this City side. Adapting doesnt have to be overt, it can be subtle. And if you dont know this then you have zero clue of what management even is and you have no idea what you are talking about.
Adapting doesnt mean overturning everything you do inside it. Adapting means adjusting to the needs of a situation. The range of flexibility is upto the person who is in charge. Again if you dont know this then you have zero clue of what management even is and you have no idea what you are talking about.
Finally coaching a football team is part of being a "football" manager. Where did this distinction suddenly pop up from. You cant be a bad coach or a bad scout and be a good "football"manager.
As for no one is saying it. Nearly half of the discussion has been on how teams are coached to play so I dont know who you mean by no one. Just you is not no one.
+ Show Spoiler +Dont regurgitate bookish bullshit at me bro. I didnt say anything about your knowledge or lack thereoff. Arguments can be criticized but dont get personal. I will tear you to your first world, dont know shit about the world entitled ass to shreds and it will be embarrassing.. the second you start directing your argument at my person rather than my argument you are a child arguing with a man.
|
Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51493 Posts
He got promoted at Barcelona, which had Messi Xavi Iniesta Biscuits Puyol in it, bought in Pique and dani alves. Went through about 5 world class strikers as well lol. But im just saying that is the only people who won champions league with. Where as Mourinho won champions league with the likes of Maniche/Pedro Mendes/Carlos Alberto/Benni McCarthy haha. Then at Inter he had Pandev/Chivu and Muntari in it.
You say "beating the likes of Monaco" which you must forget they were a fantastic side back then, Morientes, Guily, Evra, Prso, Givet. They weren't exactly a pushover team. Porto had a bit of luck vs Yanited but still deserved to win that game and did so, then won the final very convincingly.
Big Sam is one of the great managers who gets zero respect from people who think the only way to play football is what Pep says and does which is wrong. There is no right way or wrong way, its a game where objective is to score a goal and win the game, however this is done is irrelevant. Big Sam made his name by beating the big sides and taking players on paper who are worst than their opponents and winning. That is a great manager if you ask me. Never being relegated in the premier league with the likes of Sunderland who had the worst squad i have ever seen in premier league history lol. Following season without him finish bottom and just awful.
|
Mourinho also doesn't have a season/year where he has won every single title possible.
And Pep has never been sacked in disgrace, between 1 and 3 times. Or completely destroyed a team, that just won a title, with horrible coaching.
So while Mourinho has had success at more different teams/situations including a remarkable upset with Porto, he also has not achieved the peak that Pep has, but he has had seasons far far faaaar worse than Pep has ever had.
Yet for some reason Mourinho is a legend and brilliant coach and Pep is overrated.
|
I hope none of you guys are seriously thinking that you can convince the other side? 
|
On December 20 2017 16:26 evilfatsh1t wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2017 15:50 city42 wrote:On December 20 2017 13:52 evilfatsh1t wrote:
mou is similar to fergie in that he manages to win with what he has, but mou's teams have nowhere near the longetivity saf's teams had. Mourinho has spent an almost incomprehensible amount of money on players in the last decade. mou has shown that he wins games at clubs that dont spend ridiculous amounts of money. pep hasnt. and if were using money spent as a way of measuring how good or bad a manager is, well, pep has spent "only" 300m less than mou with a management career thats 8 years less than mourinho. i would have loved to see pep at united, i actually preferred him over mou. thats because i know united could afford to get the players pep wants and his style is more entertaining to watch which is what united fans have always wanted since saf. but if were comparing pure management ability pep has way more to prove than even mou, let alone the greatest such as saf.
Obviously what Mourinho did at Porto was a great achievement, but 2003-04 was the weakest CL season in memory. After beating Utd in the round of 16, Porto had a miraculously easy run (Lyon, Deportivo, Monaco). Since leaving Portugal, Mourinho has only been in charge of top-tier players. At RM he had the most expensive squad ever assembled on Earth, and right now the Utd squad is probably second only to City in that category.
I'm not trying to downplay Mourinho's greatness as a manager, but saying that he "wins with what he has" as a stick to beat Pep with is disingenuous at best.
|
On December 21 2017 02:33 sharkie wrote:I hope none of you guys are seriously thinking that you can convince the other side?
No one can. It is the same thing as Ronaldo v Messi goat arguments.
The problem is that while in that discussion both sides respect the other as close to the same level, Mourinho fans for some reason feel they have to paint Pep as far inferior.
|
Fatih Terim > rest of the world
|
On December 21 2017 03:01 Skynx wrote:
Fatih Terim > rest of the world
Well no one will beat him in a kebab store, that is for sure.
|
Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51493 Posts
On December 21 2017 02:28 sneirac wrote:
Mourinho also doesn't have a season/year where he has won every single title possible.
And Pep has never been sacked in disgrace, between 1 and 3 times. Or completely destroyed a team, that just won a title, with horrible coaching.
So while Mourinho has had success at more different teams/situations including a remarkable upset with Porto, he also has not achieved the peak that Pep has, but he has had seasons far far faaaar worse than Pep has ever had.
Yet for some reason Mourinho is a legend and brilliant coach and Pep is overrated.
He made Bayern worst....statistically aka won less with them than previous coach
On December 21 2017 02:37 city42 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2017 16:26 evilfatsh1t wrote:On December 20 2017 15:50 city42 wrote:On December 20 2017 13:52 evilfatsh1t wrote:
mou is similar to fergie in that he manages to win with what he has, but mou's teams have nowhere near the longetivity saf's teams had. Mourinho has spent an almost incomprehensible amount of money on players in the last decade. mou has shown that he wins games at clubs that dont spend ridiculous amounts of money. pep hasnt. and if were using money spent as a way of measuring how good or bad a manager is, well, pep has spent "only" 300m less than mou with a management career thats 8 years less than mourinho. i would have loved to see pep at united, i actually preferred him over mou. thats because i know united could afford to get the players pep wants and his style is more entertaining to watch which is what united fans have always wanted since saf. but if were comparing pure management ability pep has way more to prove than even mou, let alone the greatest such as saf. Obviously what Mourinho did at Porto was a great achievement, but 2003-04 was the weakest CL season in memory. After beating Utd in the round of 16, Porto had a miraculously easy run (Lyon, Deportivo, Monaco). Since leaving Portugal, Mourinho has only been in charge of top-tier players. At RM he had the most expensive squad ever assembled on Earth, and right now the Utd squad is probably second only to City in that category. I'm not trying to downplay Mourinho's greatness as a manager, but saying that he "wins with what he has" as a stick to beat Pep with is disingenuous at best.
You leave out Inter, he spent less than 100million in his time there and produced the best Inter side ever with the likes of Muntari in it XD Won the treble and beat Pep's unbeatable barca as well. You can't downplay that, also that year in champions league wasn't weak, it still had amazing teams just look at the squads.
|
On December 21 2017 02:40 sneirac wrote:Show nested quote +On December 21 2017 02:33 sharkie wrote:I hope none of you guys are seriously thinking that you can convince the other side? No one can. It is the same thing as Ronaldo v Messi goat arguments. The problem is that while in that discussion both sides respect the other as close to the same level, Mourinho fans for some reason feel they have to paint Pep as far inferior.
Not really...this has been very civil. Well except Rebs, but that is to be expected.
|
Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51493 Posts
OMG
Bristol City 2-1 Man Utd, 92nd minute WINNER!
|
I do get that it's the League cup and all that, but that was still Pogba playing for 90 and Rashford and Martial in starting 11 too. As much as I believe Mou is willing to drop that particular competition, I don't think this went how he had it planned beforehand.
|
|
|
Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51493 Posts
Pep has bought everyone theese days it seems. Get easiest draw possible in cup. Shocking!
|
On December 21 2017 05:47 Pandemona wrote:Show nested quote +On December 21 2017 02:28 sneirac wrote:
Mourinho also doesn't have a season/year where he has won every single title possible.
And Pep has never been sacked in disgrace, between 1 and 3 times. Or completely destroyed a team, that just won a title, with horrible coaching.
So while Mourinho has had success at more different teams/situations including a remarkable upset with Porto, he also has not achieved the peak that Pep has, but he has had seasons far far faaaar worse than Pep has ever had.
Yet for some reason Mourinho is a legend and brilliant coach and Pep is overrated. He made Bayern worst....statistically aka won less with them than previous coach Show nested quote +On December 21 2017 02:37 city42 wrote:On December 20 2017 16:26 evilfatsh1t wrote:On December 20 2017 15:50 city42 wrote:On December 20 2017 13:52 evilfatsh1t wrote:
mou is similar to fergie in that he manages to win with what he has, but mou's teams have nowhere near the longetivity saf's teams had. Mourinho has spent an almost incomprehensible amount of money on players in the last decade. mou has shown that he wins games at clubs that dont spend ridiculous amounts of money. pep hasnt. and if were using money spent as a way of measuring how good or bad a manager is, well, pep has spent "only" 300m less than mou with a management career thats 8 years less than mourinho. i would have loved to see pep at united, i actually preferred him over mou. thats because i know united could afford to get the players pep wants and his style is more entertaining to watch which is what united fans have always wanted since saf. but if were comparing pure management ability pep has way more to prove than even mou, let alone the greatest such as saf. Obviously what Mourinho did at Porto was a great achievement, but 2003-04 was the weakest CL season in memory. After beating Utd in the round of 16, Porto had a miraculously easy run (Lyon, Deportivo, Monaco). Since leaving Portugal, Mourinho has only been in charge of top-tier players. At RM he had the most expensive squad ever assembled on Earth, and right now the Utd squad is probably second only to City in that category. I'm not trying to downplay Mourinho's greatness as a manager, but saying that he "wins with what he has" as a stick to beat Pep with is disingenuous at best. You leave out Inter, he spent less than 100million in his time there and produced the best Inter side ever with the likes of Muntari in it XD Won the treble and beat Pep's unbeatable barca as well. You can't downplay that, also that year in champions league wasn't weak, it still had amazing teams just look at the squads.
Umm that Inter side was extremely good to begin with, they just struggled in Europe (down to Mancini mostly). Inter's back 4 and midfield were both full of incredible talent. Under Mancini they only lost 26 matches out of 226 overall.
|
Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51493 Posts
So he made them better and won the treble the first time in there history? He did amazing with that side and after he left it went to shit and was awful. Big Rafa couldn't even pick up the pieces! Pep did the opposite to Bayern whilst spending more in an even easier league.
|
On December 21 2017 07:33 Pandemona wrote:
So he made them better and won the treble the first time in there history? He did amazing with that side and after he left it went to shit and was awful. Big Rafa couldn't even pick up the pieces! Pep did the opposite to Bayern whilst spending more in an even easier league.
Pep was at Bayern for three seasons, and spent £184m.. Mourinho was at Chelsea during two of those same seasons, and spent £319m. During his two seasons at Inter, Jose spent £139m. You make it sound like he was Eddie Howe taking over a bankrupt Bournemouth with a 17 point penalty in League Two.
|
Winning CL with Inter has always been the most impressive feat out of all imo. Because that was during a time when Italian dominance of football was gone and it was the rise of la liga
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
