not sure itll work on suarez though, being a cheating rat is just in that guys blood. will never forget the handball incident in the worldcup. normal diving doesnt even come close to the lack of sportsmanship you have to have to pull off that kind of crap
I dont know about that, anyone would have done the same.If given the choice I certainly wouldve done the same, Its not like he tried to get away with it. He got penalized, the system worked. Gyan missed and the rest is history.
People only have a problem with diving because its something that is easier to get away with. What he did in that incident was accepting an outcome and choosing to take the punishment for a chance to win. Similar to when a defender brings down someone on goal. That is a professional foul, but a deliberate handball off the lean is a cheating rat? Give me a break.
I think diving and trying to get away with it is way worse than that incident.
not sure itll work on suarez though, being a cheating rat is just in that guys blood. will never forget the handball incident in the worldcup. normal diving doesnt even come close to the lack of sportsmanship you have to have to pull off that kind of crap
I dont know about that, anyone would have done the same.If given the choice I certainly wouldve done the same, Its not like he tried to get away with it. He got penalized, the system worked. Gyan missed and the rest is history.
People only have a problem with diving because its something that is easier to get away with. What he did in that incident was accepting an outcome and choosing to take the punishment for a chance to win. Similar to when a defender brings down someone on goal. That is a professional foul, but a deliberate handball off the lean is a cheating rat? Give me a break.
I think diving and trying to get away with it is way worse than that incident.
So be a cunt as long as rules allow it cuz fuck the system right?
not sure itll work on suarez though, being a cheating rat is just in that guys blood. will never forget the handball incident in the worldcup. normal diving doesnt even come close to the lack of sportsmanship you have to have to pull off that kind of crap
I dont know about that, anyone would have done the same.If given the choice I certainly wouldve done the same, Its not like he tried to get away with it. He got penalized, the system worked. Gyan missed and the rest is history.
People only have a problem with diving because its something that is easier to get away with. What he did in that incident was accepting an outcome and choosing to take the punishment for a chance to win. Similar to when a defender brings down someone on goal. That is a professional foul, but a deliberate handball off the lean is a cheating rat? Give me a break.
I think diving and trying to get away with it is way worse than that incident.
So be a cunt as long as rules allow it cuz fuck the system right?
Love your sig btw
Im not sure how you gathered that.
The idea, to use your sort of vocabulary "be a cunt as long as you are willing to accept the consequences." And there should be consequences, preferably dont be one.
I will try to explain it again, even though I will fail because you have already made up your mind like the other guy that any infraction from Suarez is demon spawn that he created to corrupt the game at the time he did.
Technically speaking, even fouling someone is cheating the distinction is one made out of some abstract code of ethics and morals that we ascribe to, aka sportsmanship. Which is important because it makes the game enjoyable for everyone because honor, respect etc etc. Yet the very concept of a foul often deliberate is that it is unsportsmanlike and hence outside the rules, ergo Cheating. I repeated the same idea twice on at the start and the end of the paragraph on purpose because I like to patronize, so please indulge me there.
so logically speaking there is no difference between a handball of the line and a deliberate pullback to prevent a goal. Yet one is a cheating cunt, the other is a foul
Yea I lost a sigbet, but you should see the other guy...
the way he moves his head when he handballs the ball away in order to make it look like it was a header is enough evidence that he did try to get away with it. on top of that he was shameless enough to act surprised when he was sent off. also, i can accept that professional fouls are made when a defender brings someone down when they are set for a 1v1 with the keeper. youre gambling a red card vs a chance for the keeper to make a 1v1 save. in suarez's case, the ball was literally going into an open net with no one to stop it but himself. at that point a sportsmanlike player would have accepted defeat, not smack it away like a fking basketball rejection. if you call that sportsmanlike you may as well have a defender standing on the line at every major finals game ready to catch the ball with 2 hands in case your goalkeeper fails. just because theres a system to be taken advantage of doesnt mean it should be. what he did was embarrassing and he was shameless enough to even try to disguise it. i mean if youre gonna make such a blatant foul you may as well just catch the ball with 2 hands and throw it away. at least people will be ok with the fact that you've accepted youre cheating.
if you could say that if you were in his position you would have done the same thing then it just means you have just about as much sportsmanship as he does, which aint much. it doesnt make what he did right. whether the tradeoff for your conscience vs a higher place in the tournament was worth it is totally irrelevant. and people dont have a problem with diving because its easier to get away with. people have a problem with diving because its diving. end of story
On March 12 2017 19:25 evilfatsh1t wrote: the way he moves his head when he handballs the ball away in order to make it look like it was a header is enough evidence that he did try to get away with it. on top of that he was shameless enough to act surprised when he was sent off. also, i can accept that professional fouls are made when a defender brings someone down when they are set for a 1v1 with the keeper. youre gambling a red card vs a chance for the keeper to make a 1v1 save.
In either case you are choosing to cheat. The degree of cheating is irrelevant and as I said, a bullshit distinction that people like you make to allow their conscious to think they are being consistent in their thought process. Surprise !
On March 12 2017 19:25 evilfatsh1t wrote: if you could say that if you were in his position you would have done the same thing then it just means you have just about as much sportsmanship as he does, which aint much. it doesnt make what he did right. whether the tradeoff for your conscience vs a higher place in the tournament was worth it is totally irrelevant. and people dont have a problem with diving because its easier to get away with. people have a problem with diving because its diving. end of story.
Give me a fucking break with your highhorse "sportsmanship nonsense." Again you are imposing your own abstract concept of "sportsmanship." Why should everyone ascribe to your idea of it ? Should we not suggest that all this kicking and nipping and tugging is unsportsmanlike ? But aah no that is just a part of the game. Real sportsmanship is about doing all sorts of cheating, except diving. Diving is just bad, actually add off the line handballs to it.
Also if I remember that video correctly your recounting of the events is even more bullshit and rather obviously coloured by your distaste, Ill admit to liking Suarez but Im not just fanboying or hating here, please be more logical and provide good examples.
He slapped it away with both hands and he walked off in tears. Sure he waved his fingers and acted surprised and shit and I'd discredit him for that. But its certainly not as exaggerated as what you described. So yeah, go take another look so you can try exaggerating what actually happened instead of what your biased ass fuck memory just concocted about heads twisting and all that jazz.
A sportsmanlike player should accept defeat when the ball is going over the line, but its ok to not do it when the opponent is about to score a goal. I mean I literally want to say "fuck off" at the sort absurd reasoning. Its the kind of gymnastics people come up with to justify one thing that exists in the game, but not the one they dislike
You very likely have never played competitive anything at any level and will probably never understand. The typical though process of someone who likes to sit atop their "fair is fair" pedestal without any clue as to what the nuances are to "sportsmanship." Then again I suppose thats most people.
On March 12 2017 19:25 evilfatsh1t wrote: just because theres a system to be taken advantage of doesnt mean it should be. what he did was embarrassing and he was shameless enough to even try to disguise it. i mean if youre gonna make such a blatant foul you may as well just catch the ball with 2 hands and throw it away. at least people will be ok with the fact that you've accepted youre cheating.
Again, bullshit people commit fouls all the time and try to avoid it. Some dont, most do. I dont see people up in arms when unfair tackles go unpunished, is that not a cancer in the game? "Gosh no, its a contact sport after all, and something something, this is different." Its not
In my view they are just as if not more (because they also pose physical consequences) unsportsmanlike.
On March 12 2017 19:25 evilfatsh1t wrote: the way he moves his head when he handballs the ball away in order to make it look like it was a header is enough evidence that he did try to get away with it. on top of that he was shameless enough to act surprised when he was sent off. also, i can accept that professional fouls are made when a defender brings someone down when they are set for a 1v1 with the keeper. youre gambling a red card vs a chance for the keeper to make a 1v1 save.
In either case you are choosing to cheat. The degree of cheating is irrelevant and as I said, a bullshit distinction that people like you make to allow their conscious to think they are being consistent in their thought process. Surprise !
On March 12 2017 19:25 evilfatsh1t wrote: if you could say that if you were in his position you would have done the same thing then it just means you have just about as much sportsmanship as he does, which aint much. it doesnt make what he did right. whether the tradeoff for your conscience vs a higher place in the tournament was worth it is totally irrelevant. and people dont have a problem with diving because its easier to get away with. people have a problem with diving because its diving. end of story.
Give me a fucking break with your highhorse "sportsmanship nonsense." Again you are imposing your own abstract concept of "sportsmanship." Why should everyone ascribe to your idea of it ? Should we not suggest that all this kicking and nipping and tugging is unsportsmanlike ? But aah no that is just a part of the game. Real sportsmanship is about doing all sorts of cheating, except diving. Diving is just bad, actually add off the line handballs to it.
Also if I remember that video correctly your recounting of the events is even more bullshit and rather obviously coloured by your distaste, Ill admit to liking Suarez but Im not just fanboying or hating here, please be more logical and provide good examples.
He slapped it away with both hands and he walked off in tears. Sure he waved his fingers and acted surprised and shit and I'd discredit him for that. But its certainly not as exaggerated as what you described. So yeah, go take another look so you can try exaggerating what actually happened instead of what your biased ass fuck memory just concocted about heads twisting and all that jazz.
A sportsmanlike player should accept defeat when the ball is going over the line, but its ok to not do it when the opponent is about to score a goal. I mean I literally want to say "fuck off" at the sort absurd reasoning. Its the kind of gymnastics people come up with to justify one thing that exists in the game, but not the one they dislike
On March 12 2017 19:25 evilfatsh1t wrote: just because theres a system to be taken advantage of doesnt mean it should be. what he did was embarrassing and he was shameless enough to even try to disguise it. i mean if youre gonna make such a blatant foul you may as well just catch the ball with 2 hands and throw it away. at least people will be ok with the fact that you've accepted youre cheating.
Again, bullshit people commit fouls all the time and try to avoid it. Some dont, most do. I dont see people up in arms when unfair tackles go unpunished, is that not a cancer in the game? "Gosh no, its a contact sport after all, and something something, this is different." Its not
In my view they are just as if not more (because they also pose physical consequences) unsportsmanlike.
im not imposing my own idea of sportsmanship at all. i could bet my left nut that most people would agree that suarez's handball incident is one of the lowest forms of cheating this sport has seen. pretty sure its just you who thinks the handball incident was "only" as bad as any other diving incident. stopping a player going on through for a 1v1 has different consequences. you could choose to not bring the player down and your goalkeeper could still make a save, or you could choose the bring the player down and get sent off for it. there is a clear gamble between choices here. you standing on the line handballing a ball away is making a choice that is clear as day. you either stop it and get sent off or you accept that the ball goes in. funny you should mention the video, i literally watched it 5 seconds before i made the post because i wanted to confirm my recollection. he did in fact move his head to disguise the handball as a header. he did act surprised when the ref sent him off. he did pull his shirt above his head because he was "crying", which lets be honest was a load of shit because literally 5 seconds later when gyan missed the penalty he celebrated like he just scored the winner for the world cup final (which in a way you could say he did). there were 3 separate instances in that entire incident where he was trying to play the victim. so please, go watch the video again and tell me on your high horse how i was exaggerating what he did rofl a player with class or grace would have accepted that the end result is they lost the game, regardless of who was the better team. thats football
again, just because there are people doing it doesnt make it ok. by your logic if you found a loophole in the law that allowed you to get away with murder youd do it, because why not? the system allows me to. herp derp if it were up to me id have retrospective bans on a whole lot of shit but realistically speaking its unfeasible to have bans for every shirt tug or late tackle, which is why people focus on the priorities which are particularly worse acts such as diving. the lack of attention to those other cases doesnt mean people ignore the fact that other forms of cheating happen in the sport. violent tackles should be punished retrospectively, like with violent conduct although im pretty sure in some cases they are considered the same anyway. other tackles you could make arguments for and against, but tbh im indifferent. whether something is unsportsmanlike comes a lot from the intent of the player. hector moreno broke shaw's leg last season. does that make him unsportsmanlike? no, at least not from that incident alone. its clear he wasnt intending to injure shaw, the tackle was just executed poorly in the heat of the moment and shaw's foot just happened to be in a position which could not lessen the impact. i think you need to look up what the definition of sportsmanship means mate, because youre not making a very good case for why suarez isnt a dirtbag in the world of football. i mean the guy literally went around biting players because of his own anger management issue or whatever defense he came up with. honestly i cant believe the topic at hand got derailed so much by me having to explain why suarez is a dirty player. its a complete no brainer and if you cant see that then you must actually have no brain
I felt differently about the handball incident tbh. To me, the incidents that piss me off the most, aside from violent and dangerous conduct, are when people feign injury and when they try to trick the referees, who already have incredibly tough jobs as it is. Suarez' handball was to me more like a defender clipping down an attacker with clear route towards the goal. If anything, it was slightly better, because he didn't have much time to think, it's definitely possible to argue that this was just a reflexive action. I've handballed like that in football myself, of course, stakes were nonexistent, so I just laughed and said oops, sorry, but I can see how the instinct to keep the ball out of the net just kinda gives your hand a life of its own. Stakes were also as high as they get, the main reason why this incident is remembered so negatively is that it robbed Ghana (and by some extension, Africa) of their first ever world cup semi final. It felt so unfair, but the action itself wasn't that bad.
Maybe it's mostly just about how sad and pathetic I think it looks when people pretend that they're hurt when they aren't. Now, I disagree with Rebs in there being any equivalency between defenders tugging and pushing, and flat out diving. I think there can be an equivalency between tugging and pushing and falling lightly, but the latter I'm mostly fine with. I think football is to some degree a contact sport, some tugging, some wrestling, that's fine, strength is one of the properties of a football player. Acting and pretending should not be.
Here are seven videos of unsportsmanlike conduct, just incidents that have either been mentioned in recent discussions or ones that are famously unsportsmanlike. 1: Keane vs Haaland
2: Suarez handball vs Ghana
3: Suarez biting Chiellini
4: Suarez dive vs PSG
5: Rivaldo injury fake vs Turkey
6: Pepe kicking Francisco Casquero
7: Walker push vs Sterling
How would you guys rank these different incidents, from worst to least bad? To me, the worst ones are without a doubt Keane and Pepe. Keane worst because it's premeditated, but Pepe comes off as completely dangerous and out of control. Third place is probably Suarez biting. Has absolutely no place on a football field, but it's not dangerous like the first two are. Fourth, rivaldo dive. I feel it's worse to dive because you're trying to send someone off than to get a penalty somehow, and I feel the way he pretends that he was hit in the face is a complete travesty. Fifth, Suarez dive vs PSG. This is a pretty standard dive, stakes are high, there's super mild contact.. 6th Suarez' handball vs Ghana, already posted about this one. 7th, Walker push vs Sterling. I honestly don't know why I'm not placing this one slightly higher, maybe because it's not a move that completely ends the situation? Like when an attacking player dives rather than tries to finish, he's completely forgoing the opportunity to score a goal. I somehow feel that this goes more against the spirit of the game than a defender pushing someone out of balance.
Anyway, I'm interested in how others rank these.. All are unsportsmanlike of course.
That's just adorable, and more than anything, it showcases how he clearly has no practice whatsoever diving.
Here's another example of a Norwegian just.. not knowing how to dive
First 5 seconds is the real clip, guy gets a slight punch and then 1 second later throws himself to the ground. The latter half of the video is a recreation of the dive, John Carew taking the role of falling-down-man, as part of a goal celebration.
the violent ones are obviously at the top for me. only thing worse than breaking the rules is trying actually break someones legs or otherwise physically impair them. that belongs in the ufc cage not on the football field after that id put suarez's handball at the top. drone decided to not take into consideration the circumstances of the action, but for me thats exactly what makes it so unsportsmanlike. like you said, in a friendly match between friends someone pulling off the same act may have gotten a couple of laughs but if you change the circumstances its different. ghana should have won that game and it would have been a historic moment for them, but suarez completely robbed them on the world stage as a professional player. rivaldo one would be next, mainly because its actually hilarious how bullshit it was. suarez dive vs psg would be after that, although there are tons of these in games everywhere. walker push for me would be last because hes not trying to deceive the ref like divers are. its still a foul but trying to throw the attacker off balance is less of a crime than acting like you got wrongly fouled.
theres heaps of really bad/funny dives on youtube though. fallon d'floor compilations are great
not sure itll work on suarez though, being a cheating rat is just in that guys blood. will never forget the handball incident in the worldcup. normal diving doesnt even come close to the lack of sportsmanship you have to have to pull off that kind of crap
I dont know about that, anyone would have done the same.If given the choice I certainly wouldve done the same, Its not like he tried to get away with it. He got penalized, the system worked. Gyan missed and the rest is history.
People only have a problem with diving because its something that is easier to get away with. What he did in that incident was accepting an outcome and choosing to take the punishment for a chance to win. Similar to when a defender brings down someone on goal. That is a professional foul, but a deliberate handball off the lean is a cheating rat? Give me a break.
I think diving and trying to get away with it is way worse than that incident.
So be a cunt as long as rules allow it cuz fuck the system right?
Love your sig btw
Remember Ballack's foul in 2002 world cup semi final? It's not different from Suarez' hand and I'm sure we can agree Ballack was a classy player. I'm not implying Suarez is not a cunt but I would not judge him based on that hand at the world cup.
Not the referees best game for sure. I don't really get why you stop being a supporter because of one game which is an outlier though. Not much of a fan then anyway.
Think referee in La Liga been worst ever though, maybe in England too it be pretty bad this year as well. Might be sign game is getting extremely fast and hard to referee now though.
EPT
