EPT2014 - 2015 Football Thread - Page 764
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Copymizer
Denmark2106 Posts
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sharkie
Austria18572 Posts
On June 08 2015 18:35 Copymizer wrote: How fortunate we are to experience messi the best football player the world has ever known, just enjoy everything this guy does and has achieved I miss Zidane the GOAT  | ||
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Salteador Neo
Andorra5591 Posts
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sharkie
Austria18572 Posts
He did something not even Cruyff or Messi was able to do | ||
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Steveling
Greece10806 Posts
When he hangs his boots though, everyone will suddenly realise that during his reign, barca went from 1 CL to 6 or even 7(I'm assuming barca will win 1 or 2 more until then) and will go "woooooah". Plus, he will get the same revisionism treatment that only retired players get. Look at sharkie's post for example, he doesn't know that zidane missed 3 games in the 98' WC due to a red card and was practically carried to the final by his team, the 2 headers in the final have overshadowed his overall not so dazzling performance. The tournament where zidane really shined was the 2006 WC in which ironically, he was the reason they lost, due to him being hot headed and getting sent off yet one more time. Look at how he conveniently forgot to mention that the 98/00 french generation was incredible, zidane, vieira, lizarazu, thuram, trezeguet, petit, pires, henry, djorkaeff, cantela, dessaily, while messi has to carry a really average argentina to a title on his own and in his best chance it just so happened that the much feared argentine forward line was made up by injured or off form players. This will all be forgotten when messi retires, as the GOAT status will become rightfully his. drops mic | ||
Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51493 Posts
Also in that final on saturday Messi was pretty quiet if you ask me. Did one notable pass to Neymar to "start" the attack for 1st goal and that was about it, other than that he didn't get going. | ||
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sharkie
Austria18572 Posts
On June 08 2015 19:30 Steveling wrote: It's still all happening before our eyes and it's hard to grasp the magnitude of messi's rise in the football world. When he hangs his boots though, everyone will suddenly realise that during his reign, barca went from 1 CL to 6 or even 7(I'm assuming barca will win 1 or 2 more until then) and will go "woooooah". Plus, he will get the same revisionism treatment that only retired players get. Look at sharkie's post for example, he doesn't know that zidane missed 3 games in the 98' WC due to a red card and was practically carried to the final by his team, the 2 headers in the final have overshadowed his overall not so dazzling performance. The tournament where zidane really shined was the 2006 WC in which ironically, he was the reason they lost, due to him being hot headed and getting sent off yet one more time. Look at how he conveniently forgot to mention that the 98/00 french generation was incredible, zidane, vieira, lizarazu, thuram, trezeguet, petit, pires, henry, djorkaeff, cantela, dessaily, while messi has to carry a really average argentina to a title on his own and in his best chance it just so happened that the much feared argentine forward line was made up by injured or off form players. This will all be forgotten when messi retires, as the GOAT status will become rightfully his. drops mic Getting to a final is much easier than winning one... as stupid as it sounds. we have tons of different world cup finalists but not so many different world cup winners. | ||
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Steveling
Greece10806 Posts
On June 08 2015 19:37 Pandemona wrote: Lol steveling you open yourself up to some easy counters to Zidane vs Messi. Zidane champions league final goal is better than any goal Messi has scored in a champions league final. Then add in fact Zidane has a world cup title to his name and Messi does not and you have yourself a close comparison no matter what if Messi has 10000000 goals to his name domestically or not. Also in that final on saturday Messi was pretty quiet if you ask me. Did one notable pass to Neymar to "start" the attack for 1st goal and that was about it, other than that he didn't get going. Same thing again pande, revisionism, you compare zidane's(or any other greats') highest moments with messi's lowest to prove your fallible argument. And you didn't comment on the allstar team that france had. I mean out of that team, there were at least 4 players that one can pick in a best of all time team, zidane/henry/vieira/thuram. He was also immense in the final on saturday, he created the 2nd and 3rd goal(he passed to neymar) and his long ball started the 1st, not to mention 2-3 sick dribbling runs, he almost got vidal sent off in the first half. But you just need to watch him play and it becomes plain to see, that this man is really on a tier of his own, trophies and records aside. | ||
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Kleinmuuhg
Vanuatu4091 Posts
Also the World cup argument is so freaking terrible, pls stop. | ||
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Salteador Neo
Andorra5591 Posts
I mean they were some nice goals but just no lol. Reading the CL thread, it's really fun how the dumb haters keep spouting nonsense about diving while Barça was getting the second treble after beating the former PL champ, the french champ, the german champ and finally the italian champ. | ||
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Steveling
Greece10806 Posts
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haitike
Spain2722 Posts
Worldcup football level is bullshit compared to European Club level. | ||
Liquid`Drone
Norway28736 Posts
And this is using math that is way more generous than reality - but even then your statement really isn't true at all. Also, it's not like the number of world cup finalists is that much bigger than the number of world cup winners. Besides Spain vs Netherlands 2010, every final since 1982 has been between two former winners. There are only 12 different teams to ever reach a final - 8 of them have won. | ||
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Faruko
Chile34173 Posts
For me the history of football is written on the WC. But whatever to each their own, why do you guys even care who is the best or what ? Messi is indeed on a tier of his own, but he has yet to do what Zidane (for example) ever did, putting their national team on its shoulder and win the WC, does that makes him better or worse ? You decide. | ||
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UdderChaos
United Kingdom707 Posts
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Rebs
Pakistan10726 Posts
On June 08 2015 18:46 sharkie wrote: Zidane was the difference between a France that won titles and a France that is top4 material but not more. For that reason alone he is a top5 GOAT. He did something not even Cruyff or Messi was able to do Facepalm... Yes Zidane was good, the only man who has ever played football while gliding at his own pace and for that no one can forget him. But he wasnt this good. There are plenty of players that were the difference between their sides winning. Just because he won a world cup doesnt really make him top 5 GOAT. The France team that won the WC he did fuck all till the final, he was relevant sure, but he didnt "carry" anything. Kempes beat Holland on his own in their final. Is he top 5 GOAT ?? France scraped through with tough solid D and hardly any goal scoring prowess and looked second best against Croatia for large parts of the game until Thuram's wonder strike. Maybe I saw a different world cup. The France that won Euro 2000 was just all round really powerful (part of the reason Arsenal was so good around that period was because of all the French stars. Yes they had a fucked up 2002 WC but Zidane wouldnt have changed that much. Too many of that lot had turned into assholes. His most amazing contribution to the footballing world if we are talking internationals was in the 2006 tournament. You know the one he didnt quite win. That year he carried his team. That year, he failed to win This idea that Zidane won 98 all by himself is false. And the idea that he carried teams more than his peers when there is a plethora of players who have done it over and over at all sorts of high levels is very very rose tinted and totally untrue. Zidane played for a very powerful Juve and even more powerful Real Madrid. So what exactly did he need to carry at club level and what evidence do we have of him "carrying" teams more than a Figo or a Ronaldo or a Messi ? It almost makes me sad to debunk this nonsense because watching him play is what classic music would be like if it were football. But its silly to give someone credit for something he isnt. Especially when he doesnt even need it. He didnt carry his teams any more than any other people who we would mention in the same breath. | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States23607 Posts
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Steveling
Greece10806 Posts
On June 08 2015 20:30 Faruko wrote: I dont care about this conversation, but i rate the WC way way higher than any other tournament. For me the history of football is written on the WC. But whatever to each their own, why do you guys even care who is the best or what ? Messi is indeed on a tier of his own, but he has yet to do what Zidane (for example) ever did, putting their national team on its shoulder and win the WC, does that makes him better or worse ? You decide. WC have more prestige than CL, despite the worse football. It's understandable, a whole nation pours to the roads and plazas to celebrate, it's the shiniest bling in football. But it means squat all in terms of an individual player's rank since it requires a decent team and luck, much luck. Swap zidane's and ronaldo's situations in the final and the score would have being the opposite. | ||
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Steveling
Greece10806 Posts
On June 08 2015 20:31 UdderChaos wrote: Zidane and Messi is an interesting one. I think Messi probably is the greatest of all time, but he has a weakness, and that is lack of ability to carry a team. Messi is a player who can take a great team and make them unstoppable, he doesn't win games by himself as much but he makes the rest of the team preform vastly better. Zidane and maradonna on the other hand drag their teams, kicking and screaming, to title after title on both the world cup and club level. They have different impact on teams. Messi's distinct lack of performance in what is actually quite a good world cup side demonstrates this. Messi needs world class enablers playing together to allow him to shine, but when he has this he is simply unstoppable and on another level to anyone else. Zidane on the other hand could probably be put in the Argentinian squad and would have won them the world cup. This doesn't make Zidane better, don't get me wrong, but messi doesn't seem to be able to score insane goals and set up isnane goals without world class players who can read his intentions and either be on the end of his balls or link up with him in the way he invisions and needs. You put zidane in the side instead of messi the other night, and Juventus defiantly have a chance. This whole post is incredibly bad and doesn't deserve a response, especially the bits I highlighted. I mean, I just explained it above. sighs | ||
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Faruko
Chile34173 Posts
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