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On September 12 2014 08:34 TwoToneTerran wrote:Show nested quote +On September 12 2014 07:27 Jerubaal wrote:On September 12 2014 05:55 DMXD wrote:
off topic but
PG is a moron with that tweet
terrible year for him Any comment that is not construed as whole hearted, unqualified zealotry for the issue at hand is evidence that you're secretly a misanthrope. That is not the distinction here. He was clearly downplaying what Rice did and said to let Ray Rice continue playing which completely undermines the idea that what he did was worthy of punishment. If he saw the video and that's what he thinks then yeah, he probably is a misanthrope.
Sorry, I didn't see those points where he 'downplayed' the incident or how you jump from thinking that he should play means he excuses him. Maybe he thinks he's contrite or (God forbid) that the NFL isn't the place to enforce social justice.
Mostly, I just think this, and many other instances, are just excuses for small minded people to work themselves into righteous indignation by pretending a trite statement is some heroic stand. Of course, they further puff themselves up (and secure federal funding) by creating a shadow cabal living in our midst that secretly love beating women.
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I've been physically assaulted by an ex-gf - a couple of times and literally out of thin air, no cheating or any other justifiable cause - and did not physically react to the assault thankfully. When you're in that situation, however, it takes a lot of self-restraint,- and possibly the right genes, upbringing, etc - to not defend yourself in the way men are wired to. My environment is completely different but I find it hard to pass judgement in these cases. When you're subjected to psychological/emotional abuse for a long period and then at some point the other person starts physically assaulting, both in the knowledge that if you react back then your life is basically ruined (is anyone going to hire someone with that kind of criminal record?), then you are in an extremely fucked up situation.
I'm generalizing, but these guys are trained since young kids to be aggressive, they bulk up and possibly beef up on PEDs and live in a culture where the minimal sign of sensitivity is regarded as being a pussy. Now I'm not saying there shouldn't be civil/criminal consequences to these actions, there definitely should. There's something to say about the hypocrisy of society and the NFL in particular, however.
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Good post. I've already argued with a "well known" writer from a basketball site on the issue so I'm going to keep it extremely short. There are double standards that exist in society and some people are ignoring that reality. They are hopping on a soapbox to pile on Ray Rice to be in with the "moral outrage" crowd but are actually ignoring the real issue here - what's going to happen with his wife and that relationship. Throwing shots at Rice is all dandy but the word "domestic violence" was being shouted before the full tape even came out. This is why Stephen A Smith originally got in trouble even though what he was attempting to say was correct and that trash Michele Beadle took it to another level.
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On September 13 2014 01:31 Ace wrote:
Good post. I've already argued with a "well known" writer from a basketball site on the issue so I'm going to keep it extremely short. There are double standards that exist in society and some people are ignoring that reality. They are hopping on a soapbox to pile on Ray Rice to be in with the "moral outrage" crowd but are actually ignoring the real issue here - what's going to happen with his wife and that relationship. Throwing shots at Rice is all dandy but the word "domestic violence" was being shouted before the full tape even came out. This is why Stephen A Smith originally got in trouble even though what he was attempting to say was correct and that trash Michele Beadle took it to another level.
And this bolded part is where the NFL got into trouble. Ever since the original tape came out, it was already clear that domestic violence was most likely what happened inside the elevator. It was equally clear that there was a second video that showed what happened inside the elevator.
But since the public had no access to that second video, the troglodyte misogynist crowd was there in full force attempting to blame the victim. If you followed this story as it evolved, there were plenty of leaks, unnamed sources and other bullshit from the NFL insinuating that Janay was beating the crap out of Ray, that he was merely defending himself, that he barely pushed her and she slipped, etc. etc. etc. Ravens fans bought it. Goodell's lapdogs in the media bought it. And the narcissistic "we aren't joining this moral outrage because we are smarter than everybody else" crowd bought it.
Stephen A Smith clearly bought it. He was pretty much telling women that Janay was asking to be punched. The second video pretty much cut through all the BS excuses that certain people put up. It illustrated why domestic violence is still a huge problem in society today. The story is beyond Ray Rice at this point. The story is about all the people whose first instinct is to blame the victim for getting punched in the face. It is about everybody who argued that she must have done something first to provoke it. It is about how a prosecutor can't even send somebody to jail with a video and why Ray was accepted into a pre-trial intervention program that routinely rejects violent offenders.
And it is about how the NFL totally fucked its handling of the case. They were either part of a cover-up or they were grossly incompetent. NFL and Ravens officials totally deserve to be in the firing line for all the inappropriate leaks and insinuations they did before the second video surfaced. They were circulating the self-defense and she just slipped theories hard. As recently as this week, Goodell was still claiming that that's what Ray told him during their meeting.
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Ok boys, hope we don't fuck up the +14 that we've got
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Yeeees. Fuuuck yeeeeeees
edit: well played to france, that was an insane 4th quarter shooting display.
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On September 13 2014 06:48 zeo wrote:
Yeeees. Fuuuck yeeeeeees
edit: well played to france, that was an insane 4th quarter shooting display.
yea really nice, gratz to serbia
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On September 12 2014 10:54 Jerubaal wrote:Show nested quote +On September 12 2014 08:34 TwoToneTerran wrote:On September 12 2014 07:27 Jerubaal wrote:On September 12 2014 05:55 DMXD wrote:
off topic but
PG is a moron with that tweet
terrible year for him Any comment that is not construed as whole hearted, unqualified zealotry for the issue at hand is evidence that you're secretly a misanthrope. That is not the distinction here. He was clearly downplaying what Rice did and said to let Ray Rice continue playing which completely undermines the idea that what he did was worthy of punishment. If he saw the video and that's what he thinks then yeah, he probably is a misanthrope. Sorry, I didn't see those points where he 'downplayed' the incident or how you jump from thinking that he should play means he excuses him. Maybe he thinks he's contrite or (God forbid) that the NFL isn't the place to enforce social justice. Mostly, I just think this, and many other instances, are just excuses for small minded people to work themselves into righteous indignation by pretending a trite statement is some heroic stand. Of course, they further puff themselves up (and secure federal funding) by creating a shadow cabal living in our midst that secretly love beating women.
Look man, if you watch that video of what Rice did and your first sentiment is to tell Rice to stay strong then you've got problems. Your incessant strawmans, like the "shadow cabal" overexaggeration crap, don't change that.
And yes, he downplayed it by saying IF SHE DON'T TRIP I AIN'T TRIPPIN then saying he should be allowed to continue playing. These things necessarily imply that what Rice did didn't demand a serious reaction that it has gotten. That's exactly downplaying it. He doesn't have to specifically say, "I don't think what Ray Rice did was that bad," to make light of it.
Things don't have to be a "heroic stand" to be right. Why are you saying this, anyhow? To defend Paul George because he said something stupid? Because what he said was stupid and ignorant (and this kind of ignorance is what breeds misanthropy). And yeah, people should've been outraged about this shit before Ray Rice but, kind of like with Sterling, when terrible shit happens it doesn't make it less terrible because terrible shit happened in the past. If you can get the public to get behind fixing terrible shit then that's a positive.
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I'm just amazed people are still trying to make excuses for Rice/George.
The whole "don't poke the bear if you don't want to get bit" attitude is just so wrong and deserves to be called out.
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On September 13 2014 11:37 RowdierBob wrote:
I'm just amazed people are still trying to make excuses for Rice/George.
The whole "don't poke the bear if you don't want to get bit" attitude is just so wrong and deserves to be called out.
why is it so wrong? so you would promote the act of provoking people in every way possible but once the other person reacts, its their fault 100%? im just speaking in general and not at the ray rice situation.
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there are a ton of ways Rice could have reacted that DID NOT include knocking his girlfriend out. breaking up with her as soon as she started acting crazy being one of them -- the fact that it escalated that far is already a huge issue.
i also don't think anyone is saying or implying that the girl is a victim, she was guilty of being provocative, abusive, whatever.. but we're not focusing on her conduct, we're shocked that a professional athlete (who generally should be held to a higher standard, anyway) did such a thing.
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I'm sad right know, hungover and sad 
Like really fucking sad, the unbelivable luckiest 2 points ever changed everything. But frankly we didn't deserve to win well played.
Yesterday, I've seen teodovic, torned appart piece by piece French defense, the P&R execution was lovely to watch, I got a bonner just thinking about it. Thanks about that, what a beast.
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On September 13 2014 12:49 zev318 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2014 11:37 RowdierBob wrote:
I'm just amazed people are still trying to make excuses for Rice/George.
The whole "don't poke the bear if you don't want to get bit" attitude is just so wrong and deserves to be called out. why is it so wrong? so you would promote the act of provoking people in every way possible but once the other person reacts, its their fault 100%? im just speaking in general and not at the ray rice situation.
This IS about the Rice situation though and this is the sort of strawman argument people are using to defend his actions.
He's a 220lb professional athlete. He has all the power and abused it. Short of defending his life his actions are criminal.
It's the same reason as a grown man you wouldn't fight a 13 year old kid.
Civilised people with an ounce of emotional intelligence can react to situations like this without resulting to abusing their power (metaphorically and literally). Rice's wife did the wrong thing by assaulting him but he did something much worse by knocking her out. Neither is justified or right but there is no double standard here. Get back to me when Rice's wife shows she's capable of throwing a left hook like that and then maybe we can talk.
Rice is a cheap thug and anyone trying to downplay his actions or justify his actions in relation to his wife's needs to seriously consider their attitudes towards women.
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I mostly agree but let me speak on what Stephen A was trying to say, because many people took it as a defense of Rice when it wasn't. He used the word provoke which set off a chain reaction.
Rice was wrong, but if his wife hit him first she is just as wrong. She provoked him. Now this is where Stephen A and many like myself were getting at - a double standard exists that some men just dont care about. Society says "men should not hit women" but not all men follow this code. As a woman do not think it will protect you in this case. Don't hit a man and not expect retaliation. THAT is the message he and many others were sending. It isn't a defense of Rice. It's asking everyone to keep their hands to themselves.
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Yes, I think I get what you're saying: it'd be great to live in a world where morons didn't resorts to assaulting their partners because, well, they're morons but we don't live in said world so be careful.
I get the logic there and there's certainly some merit. But it also makes me uncomfortable that said line of logic still implies the victim had it coming to them (i.e if you don't set said moron off in the first place they won't do moron things to you). Rice's wife shouldn't have assaulted him. But in no way is she culpable for what happened to her. None.
Fact is we shouldn't assault each other. And if you're a 220lb beast you need to be aware of the damage you're capable of and learn to express your emotions in ways other than with your fists.
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She is culpable IF she hit him first. Just because she's a female and most likely weaker than a man doesn't excuse her actions. The outcome (her getting knocked out) doesn't invalidate her action of hitting him. Like I said before - there is a double standard here and it should be acknowledged. The logic isn't implying the victim had it coming, it is stating if you hit ANYONE do not just expect them to take it.
Fact is we shouldn't assault each other. And if you're a 220lb beast you need to be aware of the damage you're capable of and learn to express your emotions in ways other than with your fists.
Right which is why as much as I think they are both to blame, Rice's actions are moronic to a magnitude most of us wouldn't understand. Short of being in a life threatening scenario he could have done something else. But this goes to the football and aggression argument that is just difficult to assess.
SN: My problem with the way the situation is framed is that before the tape came out it was automatically assumed his wife was the victim, and he was a perpetrator. Around the same time the Jay-Z/Solange elevator video came out and people made fun of Jay Z for letting her hit him like that EVEN THOUGH he handled it in the best way possible. The question people kept asking? What did Jay Z do to deserve it? The notion that the man is guilty before the facts can be gathered is a dangerous line of thinking our society has.
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Well, we're not going to agree on that first point so probably should just leave it there.
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On September 13 2014 09:40 TwoToneTerran wrote:Show nested quote +On September 12 2014 10:54 Jerubaal wrote:On September 12 2014 08:34 TwoToneTerran wrote:On September 12 2014 07:27 Jerubaal wrote:On September 12 2014 05:55 DMXD wrote:
off topic but
PG is a moron with that tweet
terrible year for him Any comment that is not construed as whole hearted, unqualified zealotry for the issue at hand is evidence that you're secretly a misanthrope. That is not the distinction here. He was clearly downplaying what Rice did and said to let Ray Rice continue playing which completely undermines the idea that what he did was worthy of punishment. If he saw the video and that's what he thinks then yeah, he probably is a misanthrope. Sorry, I didn't see those points where he 'downplayed' the incident or how you jump from thinking that he should play means he excuses him. Maybe he thinks he's contrite or (God forbid) that the NFL isn't the place to enforce social justice. Mostly, I just think this, and many other instances, are just excuses for small minded people to work themselves into righteous indignation by pretending a trite statement is some heroic stand. Of course, they further puff themselves up (and secure federal funding) by creating a shadow cabal living in our midst that secretly love beating women. Look man, if you watch that video of what Rice did and your first sentiment is to tell Rice to stay strong then you've got problems. Your incessant strawmans, like the "shadow cabal" overexaggeration crap, don't change that. And yes, he downplayed it by saying IF SHE DON'T TRIP I AIN'T TRIPPIN then saying he should be allowed to continue playing. These things necessarily imply that what Rice did didn't demand a serious reaction that it has gotten. That's exactly downplaying it. He doesn't have to specifically say, "I don't think what Ray Rice did was that bad," to make light of it. Things don't have to be a "heroic stand" to be right. Why are you saying this, anyhow? To defend Paul George because he said something stupid? Because what he said was stupid and ignorant (and this kind of ignorance is what breeds misanthropy). And yeah, people should've been outraged about this shit before Ray Rice but, kind of like with Sterling, when terrible shit happens it doesn't make it less terrible because terrible shit happened in the past. If you can get the public to get behind fixing terrible shit then that's a positive.
Don't make the mistake of thinking I care about Ray Rice or Paul George. The actions of a few people are not interesting. The attitudes of hundreds of millions of people are. You bringing up the Ray Rice video suggests you think that my opinions are contingent on whether or not Ray Rice was guilty of domestic violence. They aren't. Frankly, I think it's demeaning that law abiding citizens with no history of violence towards anyone have to kowtow to a platitude before making a modest point. I don't think I should have to say "I'm not a racist" before commenting on race and I don't think SAS should have to say he knows hitting women is bad. It's clear to me, at least, that many commentators are suggesting a significant portion of America condones domestic violence and that litmus tests must be administered frequently. No strawman needed.
My Junior Sociology Club explanation of this is that, in the absence of actual virtue, we are obsessed with taking stands and announcing our positions on the most banal subjects. What matters isn't your actions or your character but only that you make the appropriately orthodox positions.
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Jeru gets it 
<3
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Domestic violence is not a fucking banal subject. I'm done with this.
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EPT
