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On February 02 2015 22:17 IgnE wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2015 20:14 asymptotech wrote:On February 02 2015 17:25 EvilTeletubby wrote:On February 02 2015 16:51 TheMusiC wrote:On February 02 2015 16:20 IgnE wrote:
Wilson 2015 is basically going to be Kaepernick of 2014. Already clear. what in wilson's career, tonight or otherwise, would lead you to that conclusion? Wilson is a pretty mediocre/slightly above average QB with an amazing team around him. He isn't anything special. What in Wilson's career, tonight or otherwise, would lead you to a conclusion otherwise? As blasphemous as this might sound in the modern era of statistical analysis (of which I am a huge fan), my answer to this question would be "the eye test" (ref: Simmons talking about Oden vs Durant back in the days of that draft). I do not believe that Wilson is as good as his record suggests he might be -- I made the joke with my friend I was watching the game with that he is/was Eli 2.0: get constant support from a stellar defense and run game, seem to do nothing for large stretches at a time, and then be good for 30+ yards out of the blue. However, it was a joke, and even in a joke, the "2.0" means something. Because the other thing I said is how much I enjoy just watching Wilson play (note: I am/was a fan of neither horse in tonight's race). He makes a number of plays look effortless, for lack of a better word. And the *big* difference between him and Kaepernick is that this extends beyond running (and even in running, Kap might when a 40 yard dash, but I believe the grace Wilson has means more than a potentially high score in figure skating). Wilson can throw it 15-25 yards and look extremely good doing it. I've never once felt that way about Kaepernick watching him. I didn't care what the stats said when the 49ers made their run, I always felt like there was some type of regression inevitably lurking. Wilson being above average would already suggest he's unlikely to be a 2015 version of that meltdown. And I believe he's that. And by only being above average, it's also very unlikely he's going to turn into some type of turret that looks half machine half man (see: Rodgers). But go back 10-12 years in a time machine and I'd be willing to bet the house that you could find a large number of posts exactly like this one with "Wilson" replaced by "Brady." Eh, you can sticky the quote. Wilson is finished as a "top tier qb".
This is the kind of overreaction that is propelling the "Brady is now the GOAT" discussions as well. Let's all calm down, we saw one football game. Please don't ignore the mountains of evidence we have to evaluate both of them and suddenly say Brady is the best and Wilson sucks.
Will the Seahawks have some difficulty choosing (likely two of) Wilson, Lynch, and Wagner? Yes. However, Seattle has shown some shrewdness with both signing players to lesser deals before their contracts are up as well as some clairvoyance regarding the increasing salary cap. I wouldn't count them out yet.
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United States97276 Posts
On February 02 2015 20:38 Jaaaaasper wrote:
Hey Jibba at least Katy Perry finally look a lion to the super bowl
but it was a tiger
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On February 02 2015 14:05 Craze wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2015 13:52 ZasZ. wrote:
Maybe now the Legion of Bandwagon Fans will retreat back into their caves, at least until next season. Are they still bandwagon fans if they come back after losing? At what point can they graduate from bandwagon fan to just fan? Always interested to hear the bullshit answers that people come up with for this.
Seems I touched a nerve. The great thing about being a bandwagon fan on the internet is no one can tell! You can just rep your team no problem!
Look, I have no doubt that there are Seahawks fans who have been going back to their first Super Bowl and before, just like there are for any team. But the sheer number of loud, obnoxious Seahawks fans on the internet has increased tenfold in the last two years. And when you talk the loudest, you can't be surprised when people want to shut you up. Everyone guns for the top for a reason.
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On February 03 2015 00:16 ZasZ. wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2015 14:05 Craze wrote:On February 02 2015 13:52 ZasZ. wrote:
Maybe now the Legion of Bandwagon Fans will retreat back into their caves, at least until next season. Are they still bandwagon fans if they come back after losing? At what point can they graduate from bandwagon fan to just fan? Always interested to hear the bullshit answers that people come up with for this. Seems I touched a nerve. The great thing about being a bandwagon fan on the internet is no one can tell! You can just rep your team no problem! Look, I have no doubt that there are Seahawks fans who have been going back to their first Super Bowl and before, just like there are for any team. But the sheer number of loud, obnoxious Seahawks fans on the internet has increased tenfold in the last two years. And when you talk the loudest, you can't be surprised when people want to shut you up. Everyone guns for the top for a reason.
My barometer is the next wagon. If they chose not to jump ship they are now legit fans.
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On February 02 2015 20:38 Jaaaaasper wrote:
Hey Jibba at least Katy Perry finally look a lion to the super bowl
yeah I got this on my Facebook... friends...
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/dWEMr6Z.jpg)
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On February 02 2015 23:52 AgentW wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2015 22:17 IgnE wrote:On February 02 2015 20:14 asymptotech wrote:On February 02 2015 17:25 EvilTeletubby wrote:On February 02 2015 16:51 TheMusiC wrote:On February 02 2015 16:20 IgnE wrote:
Wilson 2015 is basically going to be Kaepernick of 2014. Already clear. what in wilson's career, tonight or otherwise, would lead you to that conclusion? Wilson is a pretty mediocre/slightly above average QB with an amazing team around him. He isn't anything special. What in Wilson's career, tonight or otherwise, would lead you to a conclusion otherwise? As blasphemous as this might sound in the modern era of statistical analysis (of which I am a huge fan), my answer to this question would be "the eye test" (ref: Simmons talking about Oden vs Durant back in the days of that draft). I do not believe that Wilson is as good as his record suggests he might be -- I made the joke with my friend I was watching the game with that he is/was Eli 2.0: get constant support from a stellar defense and run game, seem to do nothing for large stretches at a time, and then be good for 30+ yards out of the blue. However, it was a joke, and even in a joke, the "2.0" means something. Because the other thing I said is how much I enjoy just watching Wilson play (note: I am/was a fan of neither horse in tonight's race). He makes a number of plays look effortless, for lack of a better word. And the *big* difference between him and Kaepernick is that this extends beyond running (and even in running, Kap might when a 40 yard dash, but I believe the grace Wilson has means more than a potentially high score in figure skating). Wilson can throw it 15-25 yards and look extremely good doing it. I've never once felt that way about Kaepernick watching him. I didn't care what the stats said when the 49ers made their run, I always felt like there was some type of regression inevitably lurking. Wilson being above average would already suggest he's unlikely to be a 2015 version of that meltdown. And I believe he's that. And by only being above average, it's also very unlikely he's going to turn into some type of turret that looks half machine half man (see: Rodgers). But go back 10-12 years in a time machine and I'd be willing to bet the house that you could find a large number of posts exactly like this one with "Wilson" replaced by "Brady." Eh, you can sticky the quote. Wilson is finished as a "top tier qb". This is the kind of overreaction that is propelling the "Brady is now the GOAT" discussions as well. Let's all calm down, we saw one football game. Please don't ignore the mountains of evidence we have to evaluate both of them and suddenly say Brady is the best and Wilson sucks.
Well Brady being GOAT is at least on the table, whether or not you think that way. He's close enough with 4 rings and all those post-season records that you can have that discussion.
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On February 03 2015 00:53 Zdrastochye wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2015 23:52 AgentW wrote:On February 02 2015 22:17 IgnE wrote:On February 02 2015 20:14 asymptotech wrote:On February 02 2015 17:25 EvilTeletubby wrote:On February 02 2015 16:51 TheMusiC wrote:On February 02 2015 16:20 IgnE wrote:
Wilson 2015 is basically going to be Kaepernick of 2014. Already clear. what in wilson's career, tonight or otherwise, would lead you to that conclusion? Wilson is a pretty mediocre/slightly above average QB with an amazing team around him. He isn't anything special. What in Wilson's career, tonight or otherwise, would lead you to a conclusion otherwise? As blasphemous as this might sound in the modern era of statistical analysis (of which I am a huge fan), my answer to this question would be "the eye test" (ref: Simmons talking about Oden vs Durant back in the days of that draft). I do not believe that Wilson is as good as his record suggests he might be -- I made the joke with my friend I was watching the game with that he is/was Eli 2.0: get constant support from a stellar defense and run game, seem to do nothing for large stretches at a time, and then be good for 30+ yards out of the blue. However, it was a joke, and even in a joke, the "2.0" means something. Because the other thing I said is how much I enjoy just watching Wilson play (note: I am/was a fan of neither horse in tonight's race). He makes a number of plays look effortless, for lack of a better word. And the *big* difference between him and Kaepernick is that this extends beyond running (and even in running, Kap might when a 40 yard dash, but I believe the grace Wilson has means more than a potentially high score in figure skating). Wilson can throw it 15-25 yards and look extremely good doing it. I've never once felt that way about Kaepernick watching him. I didn't care what the stats said when the 49ers made their run, I always felt like there was some type of regression inevitably lurking. Wilson being above average would already suggest he's unlikely to be a 2015 version of that meltdown. And I believe he's that. And by only being above average, it's also very unlikely he's going to turn into some type of turret that looks half machine half man (see: Rodgers). But go back 10-12 years in a time machine and I'd be willing to bet the house that you could find a large number of posts exactly like this one with "Wilson" replaced by "Brady." Eh, you can sticky the quote. Wilson is finished as a "top tier qb". This is the kind of overreaction that is propelling the "Brady is now the GOAT" discussions as well. Let's all calm down, we saw one football game. Please don't ignore the mountains of evidence we have to evaluate both of them and suddenly say Brady is the best and Wilson sucks. Well Brady being GOAT is at least on the table, whether or not you think that way. He's close enough with 4 rings and all those post-season records that you can have that discussion.
I don't disagree that it's on the table, it's just no more on the table than before Butler intercepted the ball. That's all. I mentioned this yesterday: Kurt Warner was 1-2 in Super Bowls and is a marginal Hall of Famer. However, if we look back at it, if Kevin Dyson of Tennessee ISN'T tackled at the 1 yard line, he's perhaps 0-3 and there's no discussion. Conversely, if Vinatieri misses the FG in the first Patriots Super Bowl and Santonio Holmes doesn't make a sick catch Warner is 3-0 and a no brainer HoFer. All I'm saying is that the RINGZZZZ argument is dumb and Brady is not a whole lot more closer to GOAT discussion after last night's performance, IMO.
EDIT: In other news, Manziel checks into treatment.
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On February 03 2015 01:02 AgentW wrote:Show nested quote +On February 03 2015 00:53 Zdrastochye wrote:On February 02 2015 23:52 AgentW wrote:On February 02 2015 22:17 IgnE wrote:On February 02 2015 20:14 asymptotech wrote:On February 02 2015 17:25 EvilTeletubby wrote:On February 02 2015 16:51 TheMusiC wrote:On February 02 2015 16:20 IgnE wrote:
Wilson 2015 is basically going to be Kaepernick of 2014. Already clear. what in wilson's career, tonight or otherwise, would lead you to that conclusion? Wilson is a pretty mediocre/slightly above average QB with an amazing team around him. He isn't anything special. What in Wilson's career, tonight or otherwise, would lead you to a conclusion otherwise? As blasphemous as this might sound in the modern era of statistical analysis (of which I am a huge fan), my answer to this question would be "the eye test" (ref: Simmons talking about Oden vs Durant back in the days of that draft). I do not believe that Wilson is as good as his record suggests he might be -- I made the joke with my friend I was watching the game with that he is/was Eli 2.0: get constant support from a stellar defense and run game, seem to do nothing for large stretches at a time, and then be good for 30+ yards out of the blue. However, it was a joke, and even in a joke, the "2.0" means something. Because the other thing I said is how much I enjoy just watching Wilson play (note: I am/was a fan of neither horse in tonight's race). He makes a number of plays look effortless, for lack of a better word. And the *big* difference between him and Kaepernick is that this extends beyond running (and even in running, Kap might when a 40 yard dash, but I believe the grace Wilson has means more than a potentially high score in figure skating). Wilson can throw it 15-25 yards and look extremely good doing it. I've never once felt that way about Kaepernick watching him. I didn't care what the stats said when the 49ers made their run, I always felt like there was some type of regression inevitably lurking. Wilson being above average would already suggest he's unlikely to be a 2015 version of that meltdown. And I believe he's that. And by only being above average, it's also very unlikely he's going to turn into some type of turret that looks half machine half man (see: Rodgers). But go back 10-12 years in a time machine and I'd be willing to bet the house that you could find a large number of posts exactly like this one with "Wilson" replaced by "Brady." Eh, you can sticky the quote. Wilson is finished as a "top tier qb". This is the kind of overreaction that is propelling the "Brady is now the GOAT" discussions as well. Let's all calm down, we saw one football game. Please don't ignore the mountains of evidence we have to evaluate both of them and suddenly say Brady is the best and Wilson sucks. Well Brady being GOAT is at least on the table, whether or not you think that way. He's close enough with 4 rings and all those post-season records that you can have that discussion. I don't disagree that it's on the table, it's just no more on the table than before Butler intercepted the ball. That's all. I mentioned this yesterday: Kurt Warner was 1-2 in Super Bowls and is a marginal Hall of Famer. However, if we look back at it, if Kevin Dyson of Tennessee ISN'T tackled at the 1 yard line, he's perhaps 0-3 and there's no discussion. Conversely, if Vinatieri misses the FG in the first Patriots Super Bowl and Santonio Holmes doesn't make a sick catch Warner is 3-0 and a no brainer HoFer. All I'm saying is that the RINGZZZZ argument is dumb and Brady is not a whole lot more closer to GOAT discussion after last night's performance, IMO. EDIT: In other news, Manziel checks into treatment.
Yeah but I'd rather discuss what did happen then what didn't happen. What did happen is Brady won his 4th (not just on an interception, he had two 66+ drives against what most people on these forums would claim is the best defense in the NFL right now) superbowl ring and his 3rd superbowl MVP and last night certainly helped his claim moreso then two days ago. You say it wasn't impacted at all by the game yesterday?
it's just no more on the table than before Butler intercepted the ball. That's all.
I disagree with you sir, I think it changed once his team won the biggest game of the season, but maybe it's just me.
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On February 02 2015 20:04 On_Slaught wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2015 16:07 FatChicksUnited wrote:On February 02 2015 16:00 cLutZ wrote:
"Wasn't perfectly placed"??? You mean, thrown where most high school QBs would know not to place it? Well, exactly. Look at the image, that is basically a play-calling win. That result at that moment is exactly what any OC would want from that play, and if you show me that image and tell me it's the game determining play without telling me what the result is, I'd definitely expect a TD there. The receiver doesn't cut in sharp enough, and so the ball is placed where the receiver can't box out the corner. Bevell himself said Lockette could have fought harder for the ball (which is a pathetic move by the OC). Therein lies the problem. Your receivers all range between mediocre and bad. Your receivers are getting regularly beat all game. You are ranked 27th in the league in passing for a reason. There isn't a receiver on the team worthy of putting on the spot in that situation, let alone a converted track athlete who has EIGHTEEN career receptions. Plus Wilson is only a mediocre passer. When it's between putting the ball in the hands of your WRs and putting it in the hands of the best player on the offense, in a situation custom built for him, then it's just plain stupid. Also they burned way too much time between 1st and 2nd down to run that play if you're going to just throw the ball anyways. You had plenty of time to bring in your bigger unit. PCs explanation makes it look worse (which Steve Young also said). Ultimately it's a failure to stick with what got you here. You win or lose the game on Lynch's back. Maybe even a RW run.
One thing on further reflection that makes me question the playcall more is that Wilson is a relatively short QB. This makes it harder for him to throw the ball low and tight, which is required for the call to not be idiotic.
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On February 03 2015 01:15 Zdrastochye wrote:Show nested quote +On February 03 2015 01:02 AgentW wrote:On February 03 2015 00:53 Zdrastochye wrote:On February 02 2015 23:52 AgentW wrote:On February 02 2015 22:17 IgnE wrote:On February 02 2015 20:14 asymptotech wrote:On February 02 2015 17:25 EvilTeletubby wrote:On February 02 2015 16:51 TheMusiC wrote:On February 02 2015 16:20 IgnE wrote:
Wilson 2015 is basically going to be Kaepernick of 2014. Already clear. what in wilson's career, tonight or otherwise, would lead you to that conclusion? Wilson is a pretty mediocre/slightly above average QB with an amazing team around him. He isn't anything special. What in Wilson's career, tonight or otherwise, would lead you to a conclusion otherwise? As blasphemous as this might sound in the modern era of statistical analysis (of which I am a huge fan), my answer to this question would be "the eye test" (ref: Simmons talking about Oden vs Durant back in the days of that draft). I do not believe that Wilson is as good as his record suggests he might be -- I made the joke with my friend I was watching the game with that he is/was Eli 2.0: get constant support from a stellar defense and run game, seem to do nothing for large stretches at a time, and then be good for 30+ yards out of the blue. However, it was a joke, and even in a joke, the "2.0" means something. Because the other thing I said is how much I enjoy just watching Wilson play (note: I am/was a fan of neither horse in tonight's race). He makes a number of plays look effortless, for lack of a better word. And the *big* difference between him and Kaepernick is that this extends beyond running (and even in running, Kap might when a 40 yard dash, but I believe the grace Wilson has means more than a potentially high score in figure skating). Wilson can throw it 15-25 yards and look extremely good doing it. I've never once felt that way about Kaepernick watching him. I didn't care what the stats said when the 49ers made their run, I always felt like there was some type of regression inevitably lurking. Wilson being above average would already suggest he's unlikely to be a 2015 version of that meltdown. And I believe he's that. And by only being above average, it's also very unlikely he's going to turn into some type of turret that looks half machine half man (see: Rodgers). But go back 10-12 years in a time machine and I'd be willing to bet the house that you could find a large number of posts exactly like this one with "Wilson" replaced by "Brady." Eh, you can sticky the quote. Wilson is finished as a "top tier qb". This is the kind of overreaction that is propelling the "Brady is now the GOAT" discussions as well. Let's all calm down, we saw one football game. Please don't ignore the mountains of evidence we have to evaluate both of them and suddenly say Brady is the best and Wilson sucks. Well Brady being GOAT is at least on the table, whether or not you think that way. He's close enough with 4 rings and all those post-season records that you can have that discussion. I don't disagree that it's on the table, it's just no more on the table than before Butler intercepted the ball. That's all. I mentioned this yesterday: Kurt Warner was 1-2 in Super Bowls and is a marginal Hall of Famer. However, if we look back at it, if Kevin Dyson of Tennessee ISN'T tackled at the 1 yard line, he's perhaps 0-3 and there's no discussion. Conversely, if Vinatieri misses the FG in the first Patriots Super Bowl and Santonio Holmes doesn't make a sick catch Warner is 3-0 and a no brainer HoFer. All I'm saying is that the RINGZZZZ argument is dumb and Brady is not a whole lot more closer to GOAT discussion after last night's performance, IMO. EDIT: In other news, Manziel checks into treatment. Yeah but I'd rather discuss what did happen then what didn't happen. What did happen is Brady won his 4th (not just on an interception, he had two 66+ drives against what most people on these forums would claim is the best defense in the NFL right now) superbowl ring and his 3rd superbowl MVP and last night certainly helped his claim moreso then two days ago. You say it wasn't impacted at all by the game yesterday? Show nested quote + it's just no more on the table than before Butler intercepted the ball. That's all. I disagree with you sir, I think it changed once his team won the biggest game of the season, but maybe it's just me.
Exactly, Brady worked hard to put them in the position to win with an interception, to put them in range for AV, to have the lead late in the game against the Giants. To say this game doesn't make a difference in the GOAT discussions would be doing a disservice to the work he put in against that level of talent. Weren't announcers/"experts" also calling that Seattle D one of the top 5 ever considering the offensive favored rules in place for the modern era? You want to say it's not enough to convince you fine, but it is a big factor when you are essentially splitting hairs in the first place.
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On February 03 2015 00:16 ZasZ. wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2015 14:05 Craze wrote:On February 02 2015 13:52 ZasZ. wrote:
Maybe now the Legion of Bandwagon Fans will retreat back into their caves, at least until next season. Are they still bandwagon fans if they come back after losing? At what point can they graduate from bandwagon fan to just fan? Always interested to hear the bullshit answers that people come up with for this. Seems I touched a nerve. The great thing about being a bandwagon fan on the internet is no one can tell! You can just rep your team no problem! Look, I have no doubt that there are Seahawks fans who have been going back to their first Super Bowl and before, just like there are for any team. But the sheer number of loud, obnoxious Seahawks fans on the internet has increased tenfold in the last two years. And when you talk the loudest, you can't be surprised when people want to shut you up. Everyone guns for the top for a reason.
Yea sorry, I wasn't in the best mood at the time 
I do get frustrated with the anti-Seahawk commentary directed at the fans or the big personalities. Seattle is a great sports city with passionate fans but very little winning history. Losing has always been the norm, and our one team with a championship before last year was the Sonics... who were stolen out from under us.
I'm cool with people jumping on board if they weren't fans before the first Super Bowl, winning breeds fandom. Who wants to support perennial losers? Other franchises with huge fanbases have a storied past with championships, hall of famers, etc. We have had very little of that. So the burst has to come at some point, and we've been selling out since 2006.
I just hope we don't end up paying RW more than Aaron Rodgers like has been going around, that would be just ridiculous. He's a very good QB but I wouldn't say he's elite. Top 10, sure. If he makes more than $20 million a season there is something very wrong.
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On February 02 2015 17:25 EvilTeletubby wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2015 16:51 TheMusiC wrote:On February 02 2015 16:20 IgnE wrote:
Wilson 2015 is basically going to be Kaepernick of 2014. Already clear. what in wilson's career, tonight or otherwise, would lead you to that conclusion? Wilson is a pretty mediocre/slightly above average QB with an amazing team around him. He isn't anything special. What in Wilson's career, tonight or otherwise, would lead you to a conclusion otherwise?
mediocre is a little harsh, no? i'd say by both statistics and eye test/watching games that wilson sits squarely ahead of kaepernick however you'd like to rank qbs. he's shown better decision making and better accuracy, sure he doesn't have a cannon like kaep does and he doesn't have the same running speed, but he's just as elusive and he's one of the best at turning nothing into something.
i don't think anyone will say he's in the same tier as like, rodgers or brady or manning (maybe some people will? seahawks fans? although the bitterness from the past two games might have changed that, recency is dangerous), but i think plenty of teams (>50% at the very least) would feel good with him as their qb. wilson being blessed with the LOB and marshawn seems like a poor reason to assess him as mediocre, especially since he's already proven otherwise - these seahawks didn't become these seahawks until the latter half of wilson's rookie season.
i guess what i'm trying to say is that all this talk about wilson being "mediocre" or "done" seems like a pretty big overreaction to the past two games to me.
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Italy12246 Posts
To be fair overreaction is kind of the basis of most sports talk
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I feel like we should give Wilson a little more credit.
He's a mobile QB with a relatively nice deep ball, and has the ability to make some really nice plays when the game is on the line.
That doesn't excuse that last play, but I don't think that last play should damn Russell as much as we think it should.
I would even argue that the two pick's Brady threw were worse passes than the single one that Wilson threw, but we'll stay it was simply due to the fact that it lost them the game and was a pretty horrible call.
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Irvin essentially gave some half assed apology about the fight at the end. Curious what old Roger's gonna do about that, iirc Gronk threw a shot as well
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On February 03 2015 02:21 giftdgecko wrote:Show nested quote +On February 03 2015 01:15 Zdrastochye wrote:On February 03 2015 01:02 AgentW wrote:On February 03 2015 00:53 Zdrastochye wrote:On February 02 2015 23:52 AgentW wrote:On February 02 2015 22:17 IgnE wrote:On February 02 2015 20:14 asymptotech wrote:On February 02 2015 17:25 EvilTeletubby wrote:On February 02 2015 16:51 TheMusiC wrote:On February 02 2015 16:20 IgnE wrote:
Wilson 2015 is basically going to be Kaepernick of 2014. Already clear. what in wilson's career, tonight or otherwise, would lead you to that conclusion? Wilson is a pretty mediocre/slightly above average QB with an amazing team around him. He isn't anything special. What in Wilson's career, tonight or otherwise, would lead you to a conclusion otherwise? As blasphemous as this might sound in the modern era of statistical analysis (of which I am a huge fan), my answer to this question would be "the eye test" (ref: Simmons talking about Oden vs Durant back in the days of that draft). I do not believe that Wilson is as good as his record suggests he might be -- I made the joke with my friend I was watching the game with that he is/was Eli 2.0: get constant support from a stellar defense and run game, seem to do nothing for large stretches at a time, and then be good for 30+ yards out of the blue. However, it was a joke, and even in a joke, the "2.0" means something. Because the other thing I said is how much I enjoy just watching Wilson play (note: I am/was a fan of neither horse in tonight's race). He makes a number of plays look effortless, for lack of a better word. And the *big* difference between him and Kaepernick is that this extends beyond running (and even in running, Kap might when a 40 yard dash, but I believe the grace Wilson has means more than a potentially high score in figure skating). Wilson can throw it 15-25 yards and look extremely good doing it. I've never once felt that way about Kaepernick watching him. I didn't care what the stats said when the 49ers made their run, I always felt like there was some type of regression inevitably lurking. Wilson being above average would already suggest he's unlikely to be a 2015 version of that meltdown. And I believe he's that. And by only being above average, it's also very unlikely he's going to turn into some type of turret that looks half machine half man (see: Rodgers). But go back 10-12 years in a time machine and I'd be willing to bet the house that you could find a large number of posts exactly like this one with "Wilson" replaced by "Brady." Eh, you can sticky the quote. Wilson is finished as a "top tier qb". This is the kind of overreaction that is propelling the "Brady is now the GOAT" discussions as well. Let's all calm down, we saw one football game. Please don't ignore the mountains of evidence we have to evaluate both of them and suddenly say Brady is the best and Wilson sucks. Well Brady being GOAT is at least on the table, whether or not you think that way. He's close enough with 4 rings and all those post-season records that you can have that discussion. I don't disagree that it's on the table, it's just no more on the table than before Butler intercepted the ball. That's all. I mentioned this yesterday: Kurt Warner was 1-2 in Super Bowls and is a marginal Hall of Famer. However, if we look back at it, if Kevin Dyson of Tennessee ISN'T tackled at the 1 yard line, he's perhaps 0-3 and there's no discussion. Conversely, if Vinatieri misses the FG in the first Patriots Super Bowl and Santonio Holmes doesn't make a sick catch Warner is 3-0 and a no brainer HoFer. All I'm saying is that the RINGZZZZ argument is dumb and Brady is not a whole lot more closer to GOAT discussion after last night's performance, IMO. EDIT: In other news, Manziel checks into treatment. Yeah but I'd rather discuss what did happen then what didn't happen. What did happen is Brady won his 4th (not just on an interception, he had two 66+ drives against what most people on these forums would claim is the best defense in the NFL right now) superbowl ring and his 3rd superbowl MVP and last night certainly helped his claim moreso then two days ago. You say it wasn't impacted at all by the game yesterday? it's just no more on the table than before Butler intercepted the ball. That's all. I disagree with you sir, I think it changed once his team won the biggest game of the season, but maybe it's just me. Exactly, Brady worked hard to put them in the position to win with an interception, to put them in range for AV, to have the lead late in the game against the Giants. To say this game doesn't make a difference in the GOAT discussions would be doing a disservice to the work he put in against that level of talent. Weren't announcers/"experts" also calling that Seattle D one of the top 5 ever considering the offensive favored rules in place for the modern era? You want to say it's not enough to convince you fine, but it is a big factor when you are essentially splitting hairs in the first place.
No where did I say that yesterday's game doesn't affect the discussion, I was merely referencing the result. Brady played well yesterday, but this was a still an "either or" game as evidenced by the conclusion, so saying "he won his 4th" is too simplistic.
On February 03 2015 02:41 giftdgecko wrote:
Irvin essentially gave some half assed apology about the fight at the end. Curious what old Roger's gonna do about that, iirc Gronk threw a shot as well
I've said this for years. Suspend idiots like that and you won't have guys punching people in meaningless situations. Massive retaliation will deter them.
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Damn it, that horrible feeling every year when I realize there's no more football for 7 months...
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On February 03 2015 06:32 DannyJ wrote:
Damn it, that horrible feeling every year when I realize there's no more football for 7 months...
After those playoffs I need at least a little break
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United States22883 Posts
On February 03 2015 02:39 Willard42 wrote:
I feel like we should give Wilson a little more credit.
He's a mobile QB with a relatively nice deep ball, and has the ability to make some really nice plays when the game is on the line.
That doesn't excuse that last play, but I don't think that last play should damn Russell as much as we think it should.
I would even argue that the two pick's Brady threw were worse passes than the single one that Wilson threw, but we'll stay it was simply due to the fact that it lost them the game and was a pretty horrible call.
His best plays have been due to blind luck. I don't think you should really credit Kearse's catch or the conversion at the end of the Packers game to Wilson.
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EPT
