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NBA 2013-14 Season - Page 122

Forum Index > Sports
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Itsmedudeman
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States19229 Posts
December 17 2013 05:41 GMT
#2421
Portland is still a bad defensive team which is going to hurt them during the playoffs.
zulu_nation8
Profile Blog Joined May 2005
China26351 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-12-17 10:16:56
December 17 2013 06:28 GMT
#2422
So the Knicks game.. Udrih on Beal for Wizards' last shot, no help D obviously because Barganani doesn't know how. Then with 5 seconds left and down by 1, Woodson refuses to call a timeout and but Melo thought there would be one, Melo walks up the floor, then realizes no timeout and chucks up a 3 pointer.
Jibba
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
United States22883 Posts
December 17 2013 08:39 GMT
#2423
On December 17 2013 11:34 iamho wrote:
Pistons just beat the Pacers in Indianapolis..

Yeah, I think the Pistons are a relatively dangerous matchup for Indiana. At the very least, one that could exhaust them in the playoffs.

It's one of the few front courts that can really match up with Hibbert and West, since Monroe's slowness doesn't get exploited and Josh Smith gets favorable match ups. PG can still go off in Superman mode as we've seen earlier in the season and I don't think KCP is enough to stop him. but at least we can match them on the boards (or crush them as we did tonight - 55 to 40.)

Funny though, both teams combined for just 7 fast break points.
ModeratorNow I'm distant, dark in this anthrobeat
RowdierBob
Profile Blog Joined May 2003
Australia13297 Posts
December 17 2013 10:13 GMT
#2424
Carmelo Anthony misses 25-foot three point running jumper


So I saw this on the box score of NYC vs the Wiz and had to go check it out... Confirmed to be as bad (loltastic) as I thought.

MelOwned.
"Terrans are pretty much space-Australians" - H
Disregard
Profile Blog Joined March 2007
China10252 Posts
December 17 2013 11:34 GMT
#2425
Jesus what got into Joe Johnson
"If I had to take a drug in order to be free, I'm screwed. Freedom exists in the mind, otherwise it doesn't exist."
MassHysteria
Profile Joined October 2010
United States3678 Posts
December 17 2013 17:58 GMT
#2426
I was reading Zach Lowe's article today and I swear I didn't know what he was going to write about beforehand =P.


On December 11 2013 03:13 MassHysteria wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 11 2013 02:17 jmbthirteen wrote:
On December 10 2013 17:34 Doraemon wrote:
On December 10 2013 17:30 Jerubaal wrote:
On December 10 2013 17:25 AppleSauce123 wrote:
Spoelstra is the greatest coach in the league


Did you get a name change Aerisky?

I'm done with this echo chamber.


On December 09 2013 15:07 Jerubaal wrote:
I just shook my head at Grantland proclaiming Miami "the most highly evolved offense'.


you still haven't explained why they don't have the most highly evolved offense. all you did was go on a diatribe about how spol isn't great, he's unproven, he's so lucky he got 3 big stars.

Because its just not that special. All it is, is playing to your players strengths. The only reason its "evolved" at all is because how horrendous Miami's offense was early on, because the big 3 were just doing ISO all the time, rather than playing as a team.

There is nothing that makes the Heat's offense more evolved than the Triangle offense or Princeton offense. Its not even that the offense is highly evolved, its the players that evolved and learn how to play with each other. They have great ball movement. As they should with one of the best play creators of all time in LBJ. Chris Bosh hitting elbow jumpers, Wade cutting to the basket, and Chalmers camping at the three point line while LBJ directs the offense isn't special. Its just basketball.

That is just wrong. Their offense has definitely changed since their first year but it is not as simple as you want to make it sound. And I can actually make an argument that it is more highly evolved than the Triangle and the Princeton offense because they feature the 3-point shot in their offense more. It is not that you can't tweak the Triangle or Princeton to use the 3-pointer more (which is a modern concept due to better shooters and efficiency per shot), it is just that there aren't teams doing it better than the Heat the last two or so years.

+ Show Spoiler [..........] +

And Jibba actually explained some of the things that they do on offense well but I found the following about their offense (written last season) interesting. And they are even better this year..

.....
The Heat have almost totally reinvented their offense over those three seasons, and in the process they've done something very rare: taken a good offense and transformed it into something almost historically great. The Heat ranked eighth in points per 100 possessions last season, sporting a mark about two points above the league's overall average, per Basketball-Reference.com.2 They're no. 1 this season, a full seven points over the league's overall average — a huge five-point year-over-year jump in comparison to the NBA's general scoring output.

How rare is that? Only 51 teams since 1953-54 have made such a large jump, relative to league average, from one season to the next, per research Basketball-Reference's Neil Paine performed for Grantland. Not surprisingly, most of the teams on this list were very bad in Year 1 and made some sort of massive (and positive) offseason change before Year 2.3 Only four teams have ever improved this much on offense in Year 2 after having merely an above-average offense in Year 1; the Heat will be the fifth such team.

The other four:

• 1971-72 Los Angeles Lakers: an all-time great team, owner of the 33-game streak Miami is chasing.

• 1995-96 Chicago Bulls (Michael Jordan's first full season back from retirement).

• 1997-98 Los Angeles Lakers: Shaquille O'Neal plays nine more games than prior season, Kobe Bryant no longer a rookie.

• 2003-04 Sacramento Kings.

And now the Heat, a super-team that for two years was prone to puzzling and inexcusable bouts of stagnancy on offense.4 No more. Miami is a pass-happy team that whips the ball around the floor, shifts bodies all over the place in carefully coordinated motion sets, gobbles up the most efficient shots available, and generally destroys opposing defenses in a way that is both visually pleasing and nothing like how they played in the past. League observers used to talk about Orlando's four-out/one-in system, with four shooters surrounding Dwight Howard in the post or on the pick-and-roll. Miami and Erik Spoelstra have one-upped that by often playing a five-out system, with all five guys moving around the 3-point arc as the Heat run through a series of rehearsed actions while hunting for gaps in the defense. It's a system Miami settled upon through organic internal growth, free-agent signings, injury-related improvisation, and the study of everything from college football to NCAA basketball to high-profile international hoops teams.
.....
Source

I just find it really hard to not give Spo any credit for this.

Frome Lowe's article:
About 34.7 percent of the Rockets' field goal attempts this season have been 3-pointers, putting Houston just behind the record-setting 35.4 percent share the Knicks put up last season. Threes have accounted for 25.3 percent of all field goal attempts league-wide, above last year's all-time record share (24.3 percent) — and well above the 16 to 18 percent shares the league averaged for most of the mid-2000s. The average team jacks just shy of 21 3-pointers per game, another record rate, up from about 19.9 last season. The Vipers and Rockets might be outliers, but the larger basketball landscape is trending in their direction. All of which raises the question: Are we nearing the point at which the 3-point shot will become too dominant a part of basketball? Is all the long-range chucking good for the game?

As Smith notes, there has always been grumbling among old-school types about the 3-pointer — our dads and grandpas lamenting how those impudent youngsters only care about 3s and dunks, since those highlight plays get them on SportsCenter. But new, more nuanced concerns are starting to bubble up about the dominance of the 3-pointer. One strain centers on the consequences of the idea that math has basically solved basketball. Analytics has won out in shot selection. Just about everyone in the NBA, from scouts to head coaches to GMs, understands that long 2-point shots are bad and 3s are good. There is a strong correlation between 3-point attempts and team scoring efficiency, and an even more specific correlation between the number of short corner 3s a team attempts and its overall points per possession.

The debate on this stuff is over. Math has won, though team-by-team personnel obviously still plays a huge role in a team's shot-selection profile. The triumph of math has produced a fear of standardization among some NBA observers. "We shoot too many 3s now," says Jeff Van Gundy, perhaps the closest thing the NBA has to a populist ombudsman. "We are out of whack. The numbers people have analyzed the game correctly, but we are eliminating a certain segment of NBA players."

In this view, the game is tilting toward uniformity, in both team strategy and the types of players each team will seek to execute that strategy. "As analytics people take control of more teams, you'd think there will be more and more of this," says Rod Thorn, the NBA's president of basketball operations. "Obviously, there are more 3s being taken now. But we're still in the infancy of this, in terms of deciding whether it is good or bad for the game. Remember, we've had people pontificating that the 3-point arc is bad for the game for as long as the 3 has been around."


What he wrote is nothing too "groundbreaking" but it gets at how I was trying to say that the Heat in a way do have the most evolved offense in this sense. It will continue evolving at a rapid pace now, but they really do if you include how many 3's they take and how good/efficient they are in reality (doesn't matter who the players are).

My post from yesterday:
On December 17 2013 09:40 MassHysteria wrote:
I agree with all four Freedom. I couldn't actually say he has improved and your #1 b/c had not seen enough of him/them to confidently say it.

To add to your point of great ball movement; is that they are one of the lowest turnover teams in the league. The execution of their plays by their heavy-minute guys is pretty damn good, which is usually a sign of good coaching. Stotts will probably be mentioned for COTY if this keeps up for them (Batum is probably the only guy that you can reasonably expect to improve on his TO's still --maybe Mo although he plays PG--).

From Lowe's article:
Thorn is right; it's too early to do anything but watch for potential issues. There is no real evidence that an increase in 3-pointers leads to unappealing play. It might lead to a quicker overall pace, but fans seem to like a fast-paced game. A Grantland analysis of the last three seasons showed basically no correlation between the number of 3-pointers a team attempts and its turnover rate — an indicator of sloppiness. The 3-happy Rockets are the most turnover-prone team in the league, but last year's chucktastic Knicks recorded one of the lowest turnover rates in league history. This season's Blazers and Clippers both launch a ton of 3s while ranking among the league's half-dozen best at turnover avoidance, per NBA.com.

Coaches and analytics experts agree that NBA teams are not close to reaching the optimum upper limit on 3-point attempts, with the success of the Vipers perhaps serving as evidence. In strict mathematical terms, not even Houston is taking enough 3s. We're still in a place where the huge majority of 3-pointers are the product of the kind of fun ball movement the league sought to unleash by banning the handcheck, scrapping the old illegal-defense rule, and replacing it with the defensive three-seconds rule in the early 2000s. Those tweaks combined to give ball handlers more freedom of movement on the perimeter, and to declutter the lane of both interior defenders and post-up players.


Portland's turnover rate is what really stands out to me like I said yesterday. Along with their rebounding (specially offensive rebounding). I know from years with PJ, that these are two of the most important things in a good team. Turnovers is tricky though, they have to maintain it along with their high shooting %'s from outside.
"Just ban all the J's...even jinklejoes" --unnamed source
Jibba
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
United States22883 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-12-17 18:55:27
December 17 2013 18:44 GMT
#2427
One thing to take away and watch for from the article:

Parsons is smart, and you can see his mental calculator working. Matthews's scorching start notwithstanding, Parsons gets that a Batum corner 3 is worth more than a Matthews above-the-breaker. And so he only stunts softly at Matthews — enough to at least make Matthews think for a beat, but not enough to lose contact with Batum.


NBA defenses have gotten more successful at stopping penetration, but many still do a lousy job with overcommitting on help defense and leaving corner shooters open. More should be doing what Parsons did, and stunt to cause hesitation on a possible drive or shot, and immediately go back to their man. The Knicks are absolutely awful at this (even last year when they were playing better), because Woodson thinks his players should always help and recover (which is usually impossible against quick shooters.)
ModeratorNow I'm distant, dark in this anthrobeat
Jibba
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
United States22883 Posts
December 17 2013 18:58 GMT
#2428
Also, I SAID THIS:

2. Watching the Suns

Apologies to the Blazers, but this is the best story in the league — the team too good to tank. No one in the organization dreamed these guys would be 14-9, with the no. 9 overall point differential (per 100 possessions) and a borderline top-five offense. Goran Dragic has never been better, and I'm not sure there are five craftier players in the league. He's not fast enough to just blow by opposing point guards, but he makes up for it with guile — shoulder fakes, hesitation dribbles, crossovers, head fakes, behind-the-back step-backs, whirling finishes in the lane. Just a delight.

Eric Bledsoe still has turnover issues and his defense has slipped a tad under a larger scoring burden, but the dude is a beast. Miles Plumlee is hurting basketballs with his shot blocks, the Morris twins are making tough shots, and Channing Frye's shooting is forcing defenses into all sorts of painful contortions.

This also raises perhaps the most intriguing question in the league right now: Does Phoenix just ride this and go for a shocking playoff berth? Or will we see some questionable injuries, suddenly shaky coaching from the excellent Jeff Hornacek, and other chicanery? I hope not.
ModeratorNow I'm distant, dark in this anthrobeat
MassHysteria
Profile Joined October 2010
United States3678 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-12-17 20:03:09
December 17 2013 19:52 GMT
#2429
My dick's still bigger than yours jibba

edit: non-joking though, I don't know, they are in a tough spot. Really hard to say. I think they get the Lakers first round pick next year which might be good if LA doesn't make any moves/signings...but if they can get Asik somehow, they should go for a run I think. Have to think about it more.
"Just ban all the J's...even jinklejoes" --unnamed source
Vindicare605
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States16118 Posts
December 18 2013 00:01 GMT
#2430
http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2013/12/17/5208554/pau-gasol-analysis-la-lakers-mike-dantoni

More on Pau Gasol.

Summing up the article's conclusions, Gasol needs to stop popping out to the perimeter on Pick and Rolls and instead needs to be rolling hard to the basket like D'Antoni's been saying he hasn't been.
aka: KTVindicare the Geeky Bartender
FreedomMurder
Profile Joined November 2011
Canada200 Posts
December 18 2013 00:48 GMT
#2431
On December 18 2013 09:01 Vindicare605 wrote:
http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2013/12/17/5208554/pau-gasol-analysis-la-lakers-mike-dantoni

More on Pau Gasol.

Summing up the article's conclusions, Gasol needs to stop popping out to the perimeter on Pick and Rolls and instead needs to be rolling hard to the basket like D'Antoni's been saying he hasn't been.


I feel like D'antoni continually contradicts himself. Last year he sad Gasol was most effective as a jump shooter.
(>$___$)> https://soundcloud.com/5m00th-j4zz <(-__$<)
seiferoth10
Profile Joined May 2010
3362 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-12-18 01:30:31
December 18 2013 01:19 GMT
#2432
Uhh.. obviously? Because they had Dwight in the post last year he was a high post facilitator, clearly he has a different role this year as their sole post player.

Edit: What I want to know is how Sacre is somehow the backup center now and Kaman is third string.
AxionSteel
Profile Joined January 2011
United States7754 Posts
December 18 2013 01:52 GMT
#2433
Pau was also a much more better jump shooter in seasons past..at least from my memory.


Grizzlies commentators are just AWFUL.
Vindicare605
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States16118 Posts
December 18 2013 02:07 GMT
#2434
On December 18 2013 10:19 seiferoth10 wrote:
Uhh.. obviously? Because they had Dwight in the post last year he was a high post facilitator, clearly he has a different role this year as their sole post player.

Edit: What I want to know is how Sacre is somehow the backup center now and Kaman is third string.


Kaman's disappearance is a mystery to everyone.
aka: KTVindicare the Geeky Bartender
icystorage
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
Jollibee19350 Posts
December 18 2013 02:17 GMT
#2435
huh... i always thought kaman was in dallas
LiquidDota StaffAre you ready for a Miracle-? We are! The International 2017 Champions!
a176
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Canada6688 Posts
December 18 2013 02:20 GMT
#2436
cavs vs portland so good
starleague forever
zoLo
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
United States5896 Posts
December 18 2013 02:22 GMT
#2437
Lillard is cold blooded
AppleSauce123
Profile Joined October 2013
Denmark148 Posts
December 18 2013 02:24 GMT
#2438
ICE IN HIS FUCKING VEINS
kidleaderr
Profile Joined April 2013
365 Posts
December 18 2013 02:24 GMT
#2439
lillard too stronk
a176
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Canada6688 Posts
December 18 2013 02:26 GMT
#2440
holy

fuck

lilard
starleague forever
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