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Well clen is illegal.
You can always try ephedrine as a pre-workout, it also lessens your appetite. Decent supplement for dieting, not legal in every country though. And not sure about legal issues with tested competitions.
I'm in a pretty similar position with your take on caffeine, hardly drink coffee/tea. Before workout i used to take 200mg caffeine, worked great but also gave me a little downphase following post workout meal. (Might have been the insane training volume i used to do.) Nothing a little nap didn't solve though.
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Ephedrine is also banned unless you have a medical reason. I'll just stick to not taking anything at all.
Cleaning up my diet should take priority anyway tbh.
EDIT: @mods / Zatic / anyone, are we even allowed to discuss stuff like that here?
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On March 20 2013 07:05 Deadeight wrote:
Ephedrine is also banned unless you have a medical reason. I'll just stick to not taking anything at all.
Cleaning up my diet should take priority anyway tbh.
EDIT: @mods / Zatic / anyone, are we even allowed to discuss stuff like that here?
I'm sure that if you're talking it from a strictly educational standpoint (and not advising someone to use it) you'd be allowed to discuss it, but I wouldn't exactly go bragging about using it myself or recommend that someone else use it 
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On March 20 2013 05:50 Deadeight wrote:
Ah thanks Adel, that's the explanation I was looking for (assuming it's correct).
I looked at some stuff like Clenbuterol but it turns out it's not so legal, and also banned in competitions. I'd quite like to at least enter a tested power lifting competition before I turn 24, because my numbers are good enough to qualify for nationals in the 18-23 category (especially if I move down a category in my cut). Once I'm 24 though I'm in the open category and the numbers are significantly higher. I refuse to take Clen and then compete in a drug-free comp.
I also never even have caffeine. I don't drink tea/coffee and I don't like coke or anything. Maybe I should just try some caffeine stuff, I just have never felt like I needed it.
Would pre-workout caffeine stuff mean you then have less energy when you come off it? If so it's not something I want to go near.
Well, I certainly hope so 
Clenbuterol is much more dangerous.
Even at a normal dose (let alone an overdose) you have many many side-effects, one of which being striated muscle tissue (not sure if that's the exact name, it should be but English isn't my native language) cramps. Now this is extremely hazardous because the heart is a striated muscle, and a cramp there would mean a heart failure.
Turns out the side effects are proportional to the tremendous benefits this substance can have.
If you take a product forbidden in a competition and then wait some time (the exact amount depending on what you took), it won't show up on the tests, but I get that you can see that as cheating
Some pre-workouts contain no forbidden compounds in them, and mainly work using caffeine and creatine. It still should work pretty well.
Nope, definitely not. Say your total energy right now is A, and you can spend it however you want. Using a pre-workout boost would set your total energy to a higher amount, say A+X. When you're off the pre-workout, your energy reverts back to A.
Now the thing is, if the pre-workout is effective, you'll enjoy its effects. And when you're off it, when you get to the end of your session, you will notice that a) you have less energy than when you were on it and b) you can definitely notice that you have the exact same amount of energy you had when you were off it (meaning : if you workout regularly with the same sets and the same exercices for a while before using, during its use and after discontinuating using a stacker, at your last exercise, you'll notice the same fatigue you used to have and at the same time).
You'll thusly have the same energy, but you'll feel like you have less because you used to have more for a little while.
@glurio : Ephedrine is banned in every tested competition and can no longer be used as a dieteing supplement because the danger outweighs the potential benefits it has, and any dosage is now considered a pharmaceutical usage and requires the same testing & commercialization process as medication. And a prescription.
Since I'm new here, I apologize if discussing these issues is forbidden (none of the products I use are illegal, but it is indeed forbidden to use them while competing). I posted thinking it wouldn't be a problem, since I'm neither advising someone to do anything illegal, or helping them to.
200mg of caffeine is a fairly high amount, I usually only go with 100mg (much lighter effect, but better from a health standpoint).
I've tried once the maximum amount they recommend on the NeuroCore box (3 scoops -- 300mg of caffeine + other stuff), I was overflowing with energy, couldn't stay in place (I tried to stay still but couldn't help involuntarily trembling), ..., but no caffeine crash. I'm quite caffeine-tolerant and enjoy drinking tea, coffee, coke and other caffeinated beverages.
Wouldn't do that anymore though, since it's quite expensive and way too effective, that's not the effect I'm looking for -- I only want a little boost to go the extra mile at the gym.
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I'm working on cutting right now. I'm currently 161 lb at 5'7" (73 kg at 170 cm) and would like to lose at least 10 pounds by summer, preferably 20. I'm living on campus right now, so my dietary options are somewhat limited, but I manage. My current diet is typically this:
Breakfast: Bacon & Ham Omelette with mushrooms, onions, and spinach, banana, water
Lunch: Some fruit
Dinner: Stir fry bowl with rice, apple, water
Late night snack: apple
As for my workouts, I typically lift for about 2 hours, 3 days a week with the following schedule:
Monday: chest and upper back
Wednesday: arms and shoulders
Friday: legs and lower back
Tuesdays I swing dance and during the weekend, I try to get some more cardio in, but that has been slacking recently. In any case, that's how I'm preparing for Summer.
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On March 20 2013 05:01 Adel wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2013 02:53 Deadeight wrote:On March 18 2013 22:32 kaluro wrote:On March 04 2013 09:01 eshlow wrote:
1. Lift heavy weights.
2. Eat 200-500 kcals below maintanance
3. 1 g/lbs protein
4. Sleep a lot
Get rid of the wheat crackers and eat fruit instead.
Not sure why you want to starve yourself.... Fruit contains lots of fructose (and dextrose) which are sugars that generate an absurdly high insulin peak, much higher than for example sucrose or lactose. If you want to lose fat, you should go for carbs that don't generate such high peaks (rice, potatoes, bread, pasta). Because as we all know, insulin peaks is thé main transport unit to get that fat into the fat cells. Why does that even matter? So your insulin peaks and you make some fat, how does that change how many calories you're burning? After the insulin peak the blood sugar will drop and glucagon will be released, turning fat stores into blood sugar. How does eating a particular sugar mean that your body then just burns fewer calories? I'm no expert, I genuinely want to know why it's not just Calories In < Calories Out. Hi! (I'm new in this TL section, and I don't post on this forum all too often) The thing is, when your insuline peaks, you make fat AND your testosterone levels plummit, which means : less anabolic activity in your muscles.
I think you are forgetting that insulin is probably one of the most anabolic substances out there.
When your insulin spikes your body takes up glucose to form glycogen, stores fat and starts forming muscle tissue from the amino acids. This what caused everyone to have a good postworkout meal with protein and carbs because then you had the insulin spike to bring "home" the amino acids and build more muscle.
On the clen thing, if you haven't even done caffine you are not going to like it. Also, it clears out in something like less than 3 days so it is generally pretty safe to use in tested competitions.
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On March 20 2013 14:34 Beamer wrote:
I'm working on cutting right now. I'm currently 161 lb at 5'7" (73 kg at 170 cm) and would like to lose at least 10 pounds by summer, preferably 20. I'm living on campus right now, so my dietary options are somewhat limited, but I manage. My current diet is typically this:
Breakfast: Bacon & Ham Omelette with mushrooms, onions, and spinach, banana, water
Lunch: Some fruit
Dinner: Stir fry bowl with rice, apple, water
Late night snack: apple
As for my workouts, I typically lift for about 2 hours, 3 days a week with the following schedule:
Monday: chest and upper back
Wednesday: arms and shoulders
Friday: legs and lower back
Tuesdays I swing dance and during the weekend, I try to get some more cardio in, but that has been slacking recently. In any case, that's how I'm preparing for Summer.
You should eat a lot more protein to increase muscularity, which it in turn makes it easier to lose fat. Eat lots of lean meat, chicken breast and fish. Most people will tell a 160 lb guy to consume 160g of protein per day. I'd say get at least 100g.
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Started my cut a few days ago.
Currently sitting on 97kg, 192cm with 11-12%
Should be possible to reach shredded status within a couple of months before the weather starts to allow beach times here in Denmark (we still have snow).
My strategy? I eat healthy all year around but just love food, so it's hard to just cut back by a lot all of a sudden. So it's just by pure motivation I guess, no magic there.
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Has anybody heard of the JJ Virgin diet? I've been on it since early January. Basically you don't eat:
Corn, I don't avoid corn-fed chicken or beef, but I don't eat anything else
Gluten
Egg
Soy
Dairy
Peanuts
Sugar (nothing over 5g)
I wasn't overwight to start with, but I wanted to cut my stomach fat (rest of my body is pretty lean). Currently 6 feet, ~70kgs, maybe slightly less.
Generally my meals are
Breakfast: Shake (rice based protein powder, add hemp seeds, ground flax seeds, baby spinach, fruits (mostly berries, if i have strawberries or pineapple i add some of those too)
For lunch and dinner I usually make a big pot of food, I'll usually throw in quinoa, celery, green peppers, carrots, can of diced tomatoes, olives, loean ground beef, chick peas, things like that. Usually lasts 2-3 days so I just grab a bowl of that for both my meals, and have a slice of gluten free bread with almond butter on it.
Generally I avoid snacks, but if I do I have an apple, cut it in half, fill the middle with almond butter.
I work out 4-5 days a week for the past 3-4 years, recently started starting strength and doing 20 mins of cardio (1.5 mins running, 1 min walking intervals).
Anyways, so that's I think most of the relevant info I can give for a decent answer - I was losing belly fat for the first month or so, but recently started getting it back and I'm not too happy about that. Anybody want to give me some suggestions? Basically I eat well and exercise, and as far as I'm concerned I shouldn't be gaining anything 
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Cutting out dairy, corn and sugar seems like a great idea health wise, but why would you ever cut out eggs of your diet?
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The diet is based around allergenic reactions, people tend to have reactions to foods that they weren't aware of. Eggs are apparently one of those foods - I didn't spend much time learning what the theory of it all was, I just basically trusted her research (she's a reliable person, tons of experience and history) and went with it. What would I benefit from eggs, from a belly fat perspective?
edit -
A part of the diet is to go 3 weeks without eating any of those 7 food categories, then 1 week at a time, you reintroduce 4 of those foods 1 at a time for 4 days to see if you react to them (bloating, inflammation, pain [ex: my mom noticed she gets joint pain if she eats bread], etc). I didn't have a reaction to eggs, so I could eat them if I wanted to.
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On March 21 2013 00:32 Zenbrez wrote:
The diet is based around allergenic reactions, people tend to have reactions to foods that they weren't aware of. Eggs are apparently one of those foods - I didn't spend much time learning what the theory of it all was, I just basically trusted her research (she's a reliable person, tons of experience and history) and went with it. What would I benefit from eggs, from a belly fat perspective?
edit -
A part of the diet is to go 3 weeks without eating any of those 7 food categories, then 1 week at a time, you reintroduce 4 of those foods 1 at a time for 4 days to see if you react to them (bloating, inflammation, pain [ex: my mom noticed she gets joint pain if she eats bread], etc). I didn't have a reaction to eggs, so I could eat them if I wanted to.
So many fantastic micro nutrients that are good for you, and the taste, at least for me, is absolutely amazing. Everybody used to be concerned about consuming too many eggs some years ago due to cholesterole, but recent research have shown that unless you consume absurd amounts of eggs, the harmful effects are very debatable.
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On March 21 2013 00:23 KOVU wrote:
Cutting out dairy, corn and sugar seems like a great idea health wise, but why would you ever cut out eggs of your diet?
What's wrong with dairy, particularly milk? It seems like a really good source to increase protein intake.
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On March 23 2013 03:39 Beamer wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2013 00:23 KOVU wrote:
Cutting out dairy, corn and sugar seems like a great idea health wise, but why would you ever cut out eggs of your diet? What's wrong with dairy, particularly milk? It seems like a really good source to increase protein intake.
there's some debate going on about whether milk is healthy for you (use of growth hormones in cows, casein, lactose intolerance, etc). then again, there are health debates for every single type of food ever (except water lol), so just eat what you want, see how your body reacts to it, and go from there. if drinking milk makes me build muscle, recover faster, sleep better, and feel better, no amount of research saying "milk is bad" is going to keep me from drinking it.
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I drink 2 liters of milk and eat yoghurt almost every day, but my body has no problem dealing with large amounts of dairy. I'm very fortunate in that way, but a lot of other people have problems with lactose intolerance, especially asians. I love my milk though, but i understand that someone might not
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I'm going to start cutting by end of March, increased my weight from 75 to 80 kg since beginning of Dec.
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Man, as a person with around 8/10 percent body fat but no muscle mass I'm going to do the exact opposite. Eat and train a metric fuckton.
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If anybody could offer me some suggestions from above post I'd appreciate it
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On March 24 2013 12:36 Zenbrez wrote:If anybody could offer me some suggestions from above post I'd appreciate it
if you've stopped losing belly fat, then you are no longer on a caloric deficit. you'll need to eat a bit less, spend more calories (through working out), or both. your diet looks pretty healthy, so you don't really need to change much except eat smaller portions.
if youre wondering what foods to eat less of, cutting out the calorie-dense foods will make the biggest difference. stuff like nuts, almond butter, maybe chick peas (im not sure, just guessing).... im sure you can google up some website that gives you the actual numbers.
another suggestion would be to reduce your caloric intake gradually, rather than suddenly. if you suddenly cut out 500kcals, it'll be tough to keep it up and you might splurge and eat a ton. it's easier to handle if you reduce 100kcals, wait 3-5 days, and then cut out another 100kcal, etc.
finally, i didnt see you mention what you drink, so i dont know if you already do this, but only drink water. no fruit juice or soda or anything.
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From an aesthetic point of view, yes I do know most lifters laugh at "chicken legs", but my impression is that relatively thinner legs make one look taller. They have a kind of "elongating" effect.
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EPT
