On February 27 2013 19:32 Salteador Neo wrote: We stomp so hard in la liga and we are the beast team ever.
We lose two games to Milan and Madrid and hell breaks lose xD
Barça played much better football than Madrid on the first half. Would have been a fair game if the ref called that clear penalty on Pedro. Second game came from a counterattack with only Puyol on the back, because all the team was attacking. Again, in a 1-1 result that might not happen.
Still, grats to Madrid because they deserved to win. They should learn the class to stay after the game to congratulate the winners like Barça did too. In the past Clásicos we won, they did quite the opposite.
Also Pepe gets in just in time to prove he is a fucking insane and moronic douche
This is why "all hell breaks loose" is because Barca fans (not proper Catalans) see them as "the best team ever" which they might have been, but everything comes to an end....Liverpool in the 80s were shit good, won everything they entered, had such amazing players. Boom turn of the 90s, they become very average, try and recapture there heights but have just gotten worst and worst. This will happen to Barca at one stage, not as severe don't get me wrong, but you wont be "the best" for ever and ever, it's just what happens in football. Also i am not saying that this is happening to Barca now, but you need to expect that they have reached their peak, and their high standards they set in the last few years (winning champions league and La Liga) it just will not happen all the time any more. And they pretty much are manager less now which is silly, even if he was the greatest manager of all time (which he isn't anyway) he should be relieved of his duties and be made a director of football or something, you cannot run a football team from your bed.
It is also a pretty big deal losing to Milan and Real Madrid. Not just because they lost, it is the manner in which they lost both games. Milan, they not only got beat, but they got beat 2-0 by a pretty average looking AC Milan team. That is not only a big result, but it could be a tie ending result and them out of champions league, the ultimate prize in Europe. Real Madrid defeat, again highlighted the fact they do not look the untouchables they have done in the past, they got beaten by a relatively normal looking Real team they have been beating for fun over the last 2-3 seasons. Every counter attack (which was more than normal) Barca look like they are about to concede. Going forward, they are no where near as fluent as they have been and look relatively easy to push back and keep away from the penalty area.
This is all highlighted in the following; Milan vs Barca 72% possession for Barcelona, more than normal? Yes 4 shots in total...with 72% possession...shocking 1 shot on target....1 in 4 shots on goal/at goal on target...shocking
So you see Barca are just having the ball like usual, but are wasting it, they are just passing it and passing it, hoping for something to happen and it is just not happening, how on earth can you justify having 72% possession and 1 shot on target, against a pretty mediocre team in AC Milan...the same team that lost to Malaga and Zenit in the champions league whilst also drawing at home to Anderlecht 0-0. Not a team that is in "good form" this season.
Barca vs Madrid 1-1 on Aggregate
Go into this game, knowing that it is a good chance getting into the final, have an away goal and home advantage. And they performed to a similar extent, i can't find any reports at the moment for stats and such, but i will update as soon as i can. I remember seeing in the game it was 4shots for Barca vs 7shots of Real, and that was midway through the second half at 3-0. For a home team again that is pretty poor.
You need to understand that if this happens again on Saturday, then Barca have major issues to deal with.
Of course that being said, if Barca turn on Saturday and actually play as good as we have seen in the past, and win 3/4-1 then we will all be shut up again. But when big teams lose, people are quick to question them (especially when it is 2 big games in a row)
Yeah I know all good things come to and end xD The "best team ever" part was not a statement but an example on how things change in just two games, hyperbolized much?
Just trying to say Barça wasnt godlike before these two games and neither it is crap now.
Although saying the Guardiola-Tito Barça of the past 4-5 years has probably been the strongest 11 ever is quite fair.
On February 27 2013 20:42 Steveling wrote: And why do you say that they lack a plan b, when almost every other team don't even have one, they just defend with their lives and it worked twice in 6 years with chelsea and inter, big whoop.
I know plenty of people who support Barca. Rabid fans from the heart of Cataluña but also casuals from the surrounding area. Every single one of them agrees that Barca has no plan B. It's not something I started saying, it's something they started saying and I picked up on. When Barca put Piqué in CF position, you know that they don't have a plan B. If City's small guys are getting outmuscled they bring on Dzeko and move Touré forwards. If Chelsea, Man U or Liverpool are getting turtled...they win the corner and use their tall CBs to bring the pain. If Tottenham get turtled...Bale throws out 30 yard screamers. Everton don't ever have that problem as long as Fellaini is playing because he is like a ball magnet. The prem is full of teams who have plan Bs. Barca do not have a plan B.
Barca are a physically weak and diminutive team currently. And their tactics are based around being weak and diminutive. As far as I am concerned, it is an ugly, selfish, unsportsmanlike style. 70%-80% possession matches are not fun to watch for anyone other than Barca fans. You people are saying that the way everyone plays against Barca is ugly and I agree...but it's called fighting fire with fire. If Barca wants to be a bunch of dicks and play like a teenager playing Fifa, then you have to set your team to fucking ultra defensive and turtle the hell up.
Real Madrid get criticised for being anti-football but they play, in my opinion, way way way more attractive football than Barca when they play other teams. They have wing attacks, tricky passing, long balls, individual skill, long shots, headers, goals from set plays. A full range of exciting play. Watching Barca destroy average teams is like watching a boa constrictor kill a drugged mouse. There's no flair. I guess the Spanish are infused with the culture of the flamboyant executioner- the whole killing bulls whilst wearing bright clothing and dancing around thing. But it doesn't excite me. I like a fair fight, gimme 50-50% possession and two teams slogging away at each other any day, over 80-20% with the majority of the action being lateral and backwards passes.
Just look at the awesome variety of the ways they score the goals in this match which I keep going on about:
On February 27 2013 21:17 Salteador Neo wrote: Yeah I know all good things come to and end xD The "best team ever" part was not a statement but an example on how things change in just two games, hyperbolized much?
Just trying to say Barça wasnt godlike before these two games and neither it is crap now.
Although saying the Guardiola-Tito Barça of the past 4-5 years has probably been the strongest 11 ever is quite fair.
I honestly think only one team could be regarded in the same category and that team would be Sacchi's Milan, but yeah it's unprecedented what Barcelona has shown the world these years.
People should really learn to understand that in football being a better team than your opponent and still loosing are not mutual exclusive at all. Say Team A and Team B play 100 games under different conditions, and Team A wins 50, Team B 25 and 25 are drawn. Then I would say Team A is better than Team B. But if they happen to play just a single game, then statisitics can screw you over. Same with the "best ever" discussion. Even if you are the best ever, it does not mean that on every given occasion your (or your team) will display skills and result of a different level. Nobody can do that. Football isn't a game of perfection, the best come close, but never reach it. (I'm not a particular Barcelona or Messi fan at all, but 2 losses against world class teams should not take anything away from them being called "the best" currently playing.)
On February 27 2013 20:42 Steveling wrote: And why do you say that they lack a plan b, when almost every other team don't even have one, they just defend with their lives and it worked twice in 6 years with chelsea and inter, big whoop.
I know plenty of people who support Barca. Rabid fans from the heart of Cataluña but also casuals from the surrounding area. Every single one of them agrees that Barca has no plan B. It's not something I started saying, it's something they started saying and I picked up on. When Barca put Piqué in CF position, you know that they don't have a plan B. If City's small guys are getting outmuscled they bring on Dzeko and move Touré forwards. If Chelsea, Man U or Liverpool are getting turtled...they win the corner and use their tall CBs to bring the pain. If Tottenham get turtled...Bale throws out 30 yard screamers. Everton don't ever have that problem as long as Fellaini is playing because he is like a ball magnet. The prem is full of teams who have plan Bs. Barca do not have a plan B.
Barca are a physically weak and diminutive team currently. And their tactics are based around being weak and diminutive. As far as I am concerned, it is an ugly, selfish, unsportsmanlike style. 70%-80% possession matches are not fun to watch for anyone other than Barca fans. You people are saying that the way everyone plays against Barca is ugly and I agree...but it's called fighting fire with fire. If Barca wants to be a bunch of dicks and play like a teenager playing Fifa, then you have to set your team to fucking ultra defensive and turtle the hell up.
Real Madrid get criticised for being anti-football but they play, in my opinion, way way way more attractive football than Barca when they play other teams. They have wing attacks, tricky passing, long balls, individual skill, long shots, headers, goals from set plays. A full range of exciting play. Watching Barca destroy average teams is like watching a boa constrictor kill a drugged mouse. There's no flair. I guess the Spanish are infused with the culture of the flamboyant executioner- the whole killing bulls whilst wearing bright clothing and dancing around thing. But it doesn't excite me. I like a fair fight, gimme 50-50% possession and two teams slogging away at each other any day, over 80-20% with the majority of the action being lateral and backwards passes.
Just look at the awesome variety of the ways they score the goals in this match which I keep going on about:
and that why chelsea/city/liverpool/everton are not in cl. barca doesnt need a plan b,because they win a shitload of game using plan a.they got so good at plan a,plan b isnt even needed. i would compare it to strikers,fox in the box,like trezeguet inzaghi or ruud.lots of people were saying they did not participate in the game and just scored goals.thats specialization for you,they do not need to fall back to the middle and dribble 5 opponents like henry or tevez would,they just plant their tents in the box and score.theyre one-dimensional,and thats what made them so damn good. barca plays with small players and tiki taka only,thats what makes them so damn good.
On February 27 2013 20:42 Steveling wrote: And why do you say that they lack a plan b, when almost every other team don't even have one, they just defend with their lives and it worked twice in 6 years with chelsea and inter, big whoop.
If Barca wants to be a bunch of dicks and play like a teenager playing Fifa, then you have to set your team to fucking ultra defensive and turtle the hell up.
There is is again. Here, I cut it out for you to realise.
There are other ways of dealing with the way barca is playing. One of them is to try and play actual football instead of rugby. And simply no team can face barca head on(when leo xaviniesta are having a good day). It's not a matter of comparing styles and what you fancy or not, but comparing ability and footballing prowess.
tldr: all other teams are forced to play defensively against barca cause they are worse. It's their lack of skill thats making games boring.
But thats not how football is meant to be played. Football is meant to be played HOW EVER YOU WANT IT TO...there is no "this is how football is played", because if you go back to when it was invented...in England, all the way back when. It was a form of Rugby basically. You get the ball, run and kick it, kicking the shit out of anyone who tried to stop you, until the rules were introduced. And then it wasn't until about the late 90s when real true passing teams came into English football, yes there was teams that could pass it, like Englands team in '66, a great bunch of players who were gifted, BUT they still knew how to out muscle their opponents and rough 'em up. That you could argue is how you play football. But until they changed the rules and other Ref's interpret the rules differently we are all being pushed to a completely non physical game, which is where passing (tika taka) teams dominate. Do i think this is wrong? No, do i think it is the way "football was designed to be played" no i do not, and when people say "this is the way football should be played and the way Stoke play is a "disgrace" "
Where did you see me referring to it as a ''disgrace''. I just said that inferior teams play that way. So it's not barcas fault that some games drag on and on, when one team just can't do anything else besides kicking legs.
On February 27 2013 22:35 Steveling wrote: Where did you see me referring to it as a ''disgrace''. I just said that inferior teams play that way. So it's not barcas fault that some games drag on and on, when one team just can't do anything else besides kicking legs.
Barca players are pretty good at kicking legs too.
No thats what people say it is a disgrace. And you just said it then, "inferior" teams play that way? How are they inferior because of the way they interpret the rules and the game. I don't ever understand that perception on football. Idea of the game, is to kick the ball into your opponents goal by abiding by the set of rules being given and in the allotted time. Whether that is by having 72% possession and 4 shots or it is having 27% and winning 2-0, no one can categorically say one or the other. One way maybe "looks" better to some people, and the other is frowned upon. But at the end of the day, you still have to have a player put the ball in the net. Whether it is a Peter Crouch/Andy Carroll or a Messi/Iniesta
Also just to add something. In the rules of football it clearly says "if you raise your hand to another players face, it is deemed violent conduct and is an instant red card" Whether or not that is due to retaliating for something else that went on is irrelevant, ala Alba should of been sent off for raising his hand and making contact (all be it slight) with Pepe last night. Even if Pepe fell to the ground like he had just been hit by Tyson is again irrelevant to breaking the rules...
And you just said it then, "inferior" teams play that way? How are they inferior because of the way they interpret the rules and the game.
Damn, how can you not understand what I'm trying to say, xD. Let me try again.
It's not these teams' choise, chelsea didn't park the bus vs barca cause that's what they thought would be cute, they did so cause it was their only option if they wanted to win. That's what I mean inferior, one team is so overwhelmingly better that the other is forced to play a certain style.
Or Chelsea parked the bus, so they could counter Barca and there 10 men in the oppositions half trying to tiki taka it around them and then expose Barcelona's slow defenders?
Chelsea also played the same way vs Benfica, would you say Benfica were better than Chelsea last season? We did the same vs Napoli too...
Parking the buss vs Defending...big difference too? I mean Chelsea went into the game thinking right, we can out defend Barca and win with counter attacks? And they did so. Can Barca out defend anyone? No they can't so they make sure they keep the ball in the opponents half and defend whilst attacking that is how Barca play to their strength.
On February 27 2013 22:35 Steveling wrote: Where did you see me referring to it as a ''disgrace''. I just said that inferior teams play that way. So it's not barcas fault that some games drag on and on, when one team just can't do anything else besides kicking legs.
Barca players are pretty good at kicking legs too.
yeah, as a Barca fan myself I hate the notion that Barca players don't kick legs as much and are much less mean somehow. Barca players are as much asshats as any other team in that regard including Messi.
On February 27 2013 22:56 Pandemona wrote: Or Chelsea parked the bus, so they could counter Barca and there 10 men in the oppositions half trying to tiki taka it around them and then expose Barcelona's slow defenders?
Chelsea also played the same way vs Benfica, would you say Benfica were better than Chelsea last season? We did the same vs Napoli too...
Parking the buss vs Defending...big difference too? I mean Chelsea went into the game thinking right, we can out defend Barca and win with counter attacks? And they did so. Can Barca out defend anyone? No they can't so they make sure they keep the ball in the opponents half and defend whilst attacking that is how Barca play to their strength.
Yeah, so I guess the post hits and the missed penalty by messi was all part of the grand scheme? Damn.
On February 27 2013 22:56 Pandemona wrote: Or Chelsea parked the bus, so they could counter Barca and there 10 men in the oppositions half trying to tiki taka it around them and then expose Barcelona's slow defenders?
Chelsea also played the same way vs Benfica, would you say Benfica were better than Chelsea last season? We did the same vs Napoli too...
Parking the buss vs Defending...big difference too? I mean Chelsea went into the game thinking right, we can out defend Barca and win with counter attacks? And they did so. Can Barca out defend anyone? No they can't so they make sure they keep the ball in the opponents half and defend whilst attacking that is how Barca play to their strength.
Chelsea conceded 50 shots in 2 games and were lucky to qualify. So you're saying that they chose the strategy that gave them maybe 5% chance of qualifying? These 2 games were just completely fucked up by Barcelona, and still they were a lot better than what we saw against Milan and Real. Against Chelsea, Barcelona had a lot of patience and shot a lot of times, without any success, which is why I'm giving you this '5% chance'. Against Milan and Real Madrid they forgot about control and tried the risky vertical style that isn't our speciality, and it failed miserably. We were expected, and we failed to find our style to have a controlled game. In the 4 games (2 Chelsea, 1 Milan/RM), we had over 65% of ball possession, but only during the 2 games against Chelsea we did something with it. We didn't even execute our plan A, how can we be talking about plan B?
Thats called football? No question Chelsea might not of won that game 9 times out of 10. But we did, and we won it going into the game thinking right, we can out defend them and counter them. And well the full time result of the 2 legs (what is remembered) shows the plan worked perfectly.
Milan did the same this season, they had a plan to let Barca play in front of them, make sure they don't get in behind them, then hit them on the counter. BOOM 2-0
Real Madrid play like that EVERY time they play vs Barca, let them have the ball in front of them, don't let them get in behind and hit them on the counter. Works even better when you have a player like Ronaldo xD 3-1 GG
That is how teams beat Barca! You will not see a team do anything else, unless they are naive
But you're just analyzing these games from the result and not the content, like all the dumb newspapers do in Spain. It's called "resultadismo" in Spanish. Nobody talks about the 95% of the games Barcelona wins against this kind of strategy...
Lol its called "real life" It's what happens when big clubs lose big games. Everyone deserves criticism even Ronaldo and Messi. So Barcelona is no exception.
But i will hold back until after this weekends game against Madrid in Madrid, if they bounce back and beat them. Then they are still as good and wont deserve any criticism until the next time they lose 2 important games in a row...convincingly losing 2 games in a row i might add.
They dont talk the 95% games they win like that because they are vs mediocre teams....Who cares if they beat Espanyol doing it, or Atletico Bilbao. Lets see if it works in Europes biggest competition or vs the next biggest team to them in the world; Real Madrid...
Also one more thing, you can never say Barca have been "dominant" this season, as they struggled to beat FKN CELTIC!!! Fkn noob Scottish team ffs ;_; and lost to them at Celtic park wtf is that xD
I'll add, Form is Temporary, Class is Permanent. Lets see what Barca has on Saturday!
EPT
