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ATHLETIC Bilbao who beat Man. U ? And Barça won them 3-0 in 20mn at the Copa del Rey final this same season? OK ok, you should say 'mediocre spanish team' so we get your point. EPL's better etc..
They won 3 Champions League in 7 seasons and qualified for the semi finals almost every season during this period of time, so yeah they beat a lot of team and they're probably around 70% win in Europe too... They beat Real Madrid countless times in the last years, they beat a stronger Milan last year, Arsenal several times, raped Man. U twice in the finals... What else do you want? You're gonna talk about Celtic? Who cares about groupstage, they were already almost certain to finish 1st...
edit: by the time I finished writing, you edited and put the Celtic story, see how predictable you are x)
edit2: if they win against Madrid, even 5-0 it will mean absolutely nothing because Madrid don't care at all about this game. Both teams will probably rotate half of their squad anyway..
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On February 27 2013 23:16 Pandemona wrote:
I'll add, Form is Temporary, Class is Permanent. Lets see what Barca has on Saturday!
Yes lets wipe out all these years of dominance, lets just wait till they lose 3 games in a row to call them scrubs, thats classy!
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51493 Posts
When did i say EPL was better?
Man Utd lost to Bilbao with their reserve team in Europa League, now look at the differences between the two...Man Utd top of the league 12 points clear, in champions league last 16 and domestic quarter finals. Bilbao...relegation battle. Nice
Anyway thanks for eluding to that point from a random game last season when we are currently discussing 2012-2013 season, where this debate is coming from.
Lol jesus i don't understand your silly points of bringing up games from the previous seasons...Chelsea won the champions league last season...we are million miles away from reliving that glory at this moment in time, next season? Could be a different story if we get the right new manager and stay in the champions league. No one knows what the following season is going to give.
You really need to stop living in the past, because that feat of "qualified for semi finals of champs league" and what not is something Chelsea also achieved and look where we are now.
You beat Arsenal twice, wow, nice job. Chelsea beat them alot too.....doesn't mean we are immune to criticism or are world class :S
Milan haven't been good since Sheva left aswell.....And if you think otherwise are very very deluded.
The only decent achievements Barca have is beating Madrid in champions league/league. And so far this season they haven't beaten Real Madrid
2-2 at home in the league
1-1 away in the cup
1-3 at home in the cup
away in the league will be decided on Saturday. If Real Madrid didn't lose to the scrub teams in La Liga they would be calling this a title decider on Saturday, but it is isn't because they dropped alot of points to the teams they should not of.
Who cares about the group stage. The group stage determines seed into the round of 16 (finishing 1st or 2nd) You finished first on 13 points, because you scored twice in the last 3 minutes vs Celtic at home, which you should be winning. If you drew or failed to win you would of finished second and could of been playing vs Man Utd/Bayern/Dortmund instead and that 2-0 loss to a 2nd place Milan team (their group finish) could of been worst? :S
You need to discuss this season more and not live in the past. If you live in the past, we will get 100s of Liverpool fans flocking TL and reliving their glory years and telling us how amazing they are. I DO NOT WANT THAT xD
On February 27 2013 23:37 Steveling wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2013 23:16 Pandemona wrote:
I'll add, Form is Temporary, Class is Permanent. Lets see what Barca has on Saturday! Yes lets wipe out all these years of dominance, lets just wait till they lose 3 games in a row to call them scrubs, thats classy!
Years of dominance?
2004–05, 2005–06, 2008–09, 2009–10, 2010–11 - 5league titles out of 7, gz Man Utd have the same maybe better
2008–09, 2011–12 - erm, 2 Copa Del Rey's in there "dominance?" equivalent of the FA Cup in Spain...
2005, 2006, 2009, 2010, 2011 (Spanish super cup) glorified friendly? The one in England is that..
2005–06, 2008–09, 2010–11 Champions League, 3 times out of 7, again that is probably the best out of any other team in Europe...but, not every other team in Europe is considered to be dominating? xD
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On February 27 2013 23:48 Pandemona wrote:
The only decent achievements Barca have is beating Madrid in champions league/league.
Did you really say that? xDDDDD
I didn't know all other teams in league and cl give away free wins. Can we donate a CL trophy to my team Olympiakos then?
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You're the one saying we don't shine againt better teams in Europe or vs Real Madrid. We played a grand total of 3 important games this season, what's the point of judging a team's level with only 3 games as reference?
The league game vs Real, we managed to keep our 7 points (I think) over them, so that's a win to me. Additionally we dominated this game too. The first leg of the Cup we owned them but we didn't finish them off and the referee didn't help. Milan we failed to play good but didn't deserve to lose 2-0. Yesterday was another level of 'failure'. But we're still talking about 2 games, not 20. Real has been awful all season and we're bashing Barcelona? As far as I know, we are the one winning the major trophy (la Liga), not them. They're not even sure to beat either Sevilla or Atletico...
Yeah the groupstage is always a joke. This game vs Celtic was not an important game, stop having this British pride. We didn't even play serious against Benfica (with a lot of subs on the field), and we managed to finish first. Now you're the one not analyzing the result (of this groupstage)? Funny...
I don't live in the past because I see this team play every week. We're weaker than 2 seasons ago, but we're still a lot better than this Real, which I think is worse than last season, and every team in Europe. On a bad day, we lose, which was not the case before. On a good day we sometimes have trouble to assassinate our opponents (vs Real Sociedad, Deportivo, Madrid in the league game and the 1st leg of the Cup), and that also is new for us.
I don't deny we're getting weaker, every domination has to stop someday. I'm just saying that if we at least play our qualities (control and intelligence) we should be able to beat any top team in Spain and in Europe.
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51493 Posts
Ok maybe that is unfair, but their only really strong performances seem to be champions league finals. But i do agree that was a tad bit harsh.
I'll rephrase that their only decent achievements are beating Real Madrid, and winning 3 champions league titles(out of 7 since 2005) .
Should win with that team and you don't. Real Madrid should beat every team in La Liga and give Barcelona a really good game, but they don't. Why? Because of external matters. Real have been arguing amongst themselves for the whole season, this clearly effects them, and they have paid the price. But they same to be steadying themselves in the competitions which have not been lost since their bad form? Copa Del Rey, in the final now. And the Champions League, still have a chance to progress.
Barcelona hit the ground running at the start, winning the games they should etcetc. Hit the champions league, doing enough to qualify in first place. Then the turn of the year, they have begun it with losing the 2 biggest game of the season so far. Champions league 1st leg and Semi final of the Spanish cup. They need to get back to basics and see if they can overturn a 2-0 from Milan and continue to keep focus on the league as they could potentially have their lead cut if they lose again to Real on Saturday, and then maybe the wheels will come off?
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On February 27 2013 23:28 WillyWanker wrote:
ATHLETIC Bilbao who beat Man. U ? And Barça won them 3-0 in 20mn at the Copa del Rey final this same season? OK ok, you should say 'mediocre spanish team' so we get your point. EPL's better etc..
They won 3 Champions League in 7 seasons and qualified for the semi finals almost every season during this period of time, so yeah they beat a lot of team and they're probably around 70% win in Europe too... They beat Real Madrid countless times in the last years, they beat a stronger Milan last year, Arsenal several times, raped Man. U twice in the finals... What else do you want? You're gonna talk about Celtic? Who cares about groupstage, they were already almost certain to finish 1st...
edit: by the time I finished writing, you edited and put the Celtic story, see how predictable you are x)
edit2: if they win against Madrid, even 5-0 it will mean absolutely nothing because Madrid don't care at all about this game. Both teams will probably rotate half of their squad anyway..
70% win percentage in Europe? You wish
Opta Sports on Twitter: "63.3% - Of the 128 managers to have taken charge of at least 10 CL matches, Bayern manager Jupp Heynckes has the best win percentage (63.3%). Dominant."
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I said 'probably'... You know how we latin people tend to exagerate numbers!
I did the calculation and we have 59.5% win in the Champions League, which is still a crazy number knowing how many playoff games we had to play during these 5 seasons.
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51493 Posts
Everyone plays play off games.
And that stat is manager based anyway. Barca have had 3 managers since they won their title in 2005 with Rijkaard. And well that guy is a shite manager xD
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No, not every team reach the semi finals every year. I've only used the Guardiola period + this year.
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Fucking get in there...passed my driving test and I psyched myself up for it by watching the penalties from the champions league final :D
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51493 Posts
ROFL
GGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG
Wp Sc4k broski! Back of the net!
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i cant believe how fast pandemona and sc4k are rewriting history.its like you guys completely forgot the feelings i have no doubt you had when watching barcelona the past few years.
Weve been watching the best team/player of all time,and suddenly what they did amounts to a mid/high tier team who just happened to win some titles along the way.
im in no way a barca fan,i was quite happy with madrid winning,the more goals the better,but sometimes you got to put aside your bias and just accept whats obvious.
Reread/watch some interviews from managers/players all acknowledging that they are helpless against barca,and that theyre happy to witness such skill.
btw http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/players/wayne-rooney/9896790/Manchester-Uniteds-desire-to-keep-Wayne-Rooney-could-be-tested-by-PSG-bid.html
dont know if im happy with a balding ginger joining ;/
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On February 28 2013 00:48 clementdudu wrote:i cant believe how fast pandemona and sc4k are rewriting history.its like you guys completely forgot the feelings i have no doubt you had when watching barcelona the past few years. Weve been watching the best team/player of all time,and suddenly what they did amounts to a mid/high tier team who just happened to win some titles along the way. im in no way a barca fan,i was quite happy with madrid winning,the more goals the better,but sometimes you got to put aside your bias and just accept whats obvious. Reread/watch some interviews from managers/players all acknowledging that they are helpless against barca,and that theyre happy to witness such skill. btw http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/players/wayne-rooney/9896790/Manchester-Uniteds-desire-to-keep-Wayne-Rooney-could-be-tested-by-PSG-bid.html dont know if im happy with a balding ginger joining ;/
This is what annoys me most when people talk about Barca. THEY'RE THE GREATEST OF ALL TIME. You probably can't remember teams going back 10 years let alone throughout the entire history of football.
I guess it's like Sir Alex Ferguson said, memory in football is short.
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51493 Posts
Lol your taking it the wrong way too.
SC is just simply voicing his opinion that he thinks Barca do not have a plan B if Plan A doesn't work and they only have a few shots and only 1 or 2 on target. They tika taka or bust.
My opinion is that this season they have been tested in 3 games. Copa Del Rey vs Real, lost 4-2. League vs Real, drew 2-2 and away to Milan (which i thought they would roflstomp) and they lost 2-0.
Now whether or not that is enough to rock the rest of their season, it does have a chance too. Who knows, i cannot predict the future, if i could i would be a rich man.
Messi is a great player that is true, so is Ronaldo. Those two players can win games on their own, but as you can see they don't always win on their own, they need help.
And what is it to say that Barcelona could not win the champions league for another 8 years (like Real Madrid) then you could argue it's over for their "dominance" and they are just another solid team, challenging for domestic honors and being a hard team to beat. Just like most of the other top 6 teams in Europe XD
On February 28 2013 01:02 Enchanted wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2013 00:48 clementdudu wrote:i cant believe how fast pandemona and sc4k are rewriting history.its like you guys completely forgot the feelings i have no doubt you had when watching barcelona the past few years. Weve been watching the best team/player of all time,and suddenly what they did amounts to a mid/high tier team who just happened to win some titles along the way. im in no way a barca fan,i was quite happy with madrid winning,the more goals the better,but sometimes you got to put aside your bias and just accept whats obvious. Reread/watch some interviews from managers/players all acknowledging that they are helpless against barca,and that theyre happy to witness such skill. btw http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/players/wayne-rooney/9896790/Manchester-Uniteds-desire-to-keep-Wayne-Rooney-could-be-tested-by-PSG-bid.html dont know if im happy with a balding ginger joining ;/ This is what annoys me most when people talk about Barca. THEY'RE THE GREATEST OF ALL TIME. You probably can't remember teams going back 10 years let alone throughout the entire history of football. I guess it's like Sir Alex Ferguson said, memory in football is short.
Because that is the best way to look at things.
Why look at 3-6-9-12 seasons ago? Lets look at RIGHT NOW. I hate having discussions with people who argue a case for their team, or another team that has done this or that 2-4-6-8 years ago, it is pointless argument. Years ago, Liverpool were a good team, a solid organized team with great players, and competed for the best players. Now....they are a mid table English team who can sometimes beat the teams above them, but lose to the teams regularly underneath them.
This season, Chelsea are shit, i blame the manager because i personally don't see how the players we have are doing as bad as we are ;_; but hey you could argue that is biast  but i do in no way not recognized criticism of certain players, ala Torres xD
Arsenal, have steadily declined each year as they lose a good player every year, but they still scrape a top 4 finish.
Atletico Bilbao, had a great 2011-12 season, doing really well, getting to a final and losing to rivals Madrid, and doing well in the league. Currently sit 3 points above the relegation zone in La Liga, struggling!
Inter Milan, under mourinho they won everything, beat Barcelona and Bayern Munich on the way to winning a treble, following season hardly won a game. This season, still struggling with form.
Schalke and Stuttgart in the Bundesliga, these teams were pushing and in champions league, now look at them struggling around mid table in the Bundesliga.
Wolfsburg, one place above the relegation zone (all be it 9 points gap xD) they won the league 2-3 seasons ago
Monaco, that team beat Chelsea (the year we beat Barcelona!) in the semi final over 2 legs in the champions league. They currently reside in division 2 of French football!
You can never judge a team on history these days, you have to look back to most "the previous season" or it is to far. Especially these days.
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The only thing that is unprecedented about this generation of Barcelona is the amount of match fixing allegations against them and the amount of no investigations or inquiries into the matter.
AC Milan was convicted of match-fixing, docked points and everything and UEFA didn't give two shits. Milan went on to win the 2006/07 Champions League that season. But I guess that bag of money called 'sponsors' and 'ratings' made it all worth it for UEFA in the end.
Its like the only thing UEFA cares about are fringe (as in practically weeded out) problems like racism and nothing about the integrity of the game. For me tampering with a referee in a champions league semi-final is much worse then a banana being thrown at a black player in a random second division game (EDIT: it should be for UEFA too)
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The MJ statue looks like some 4channer made it, rofl.
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2 hours to go.
btw: hummels will not play, santana will replace him. don't know if this is good or bad since hummels was pretty crappy in the last games anyways.
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On February 28 2013 02:32 mevshero wrote:
2 hours to go.
btw: hummels will not play, santana will replace him. don't know if this is good or bad since hummels was pretty crappy in the last games anyways.
Well, Hummels is only an international level defender...
But in all seriousness, his form has been solid, so I don't know what you were seeing. I'm a little worried with Santana in the back over Hummels.
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EPT
