• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 22:09
CEST 04:09
KST 11:09
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
ByuL, and the Limitations of Standard Play1Team Liquid Map Contest #22: Results and Winners7Code S Season 2 (2026): RO4 and Finals Preview12TL.net Map Contest #22 - Voting & Ladder Map Selection7Code S Season 2 (2026) - RO8 Preview8
Community News
[TLMC] Summer 2026 Ladder Map Rotation05.0.16 patch for SC2 goes live (8 worker start)83ZeroSpace at Steam NextFest - Last free demo37Weekly Cups (June 8-14): Clem and Solar double, PTR tested0RSL: S6 Finals played at BlizzCon 202611
StarCraft 2
General
5.0.16 patch for SC2 goes live (8 worker start) The Death of Cheese: From a Professional Cheeser Is the larve respawn broken? Old Replays From 1.4.6 The future of the SC game model
Tourneys
Maestros of The Game 2 announcement and schedule ! Douyu Cup 2026: $20,000 Legends Event (June 26-28) RSL Revival: Season 6 - Qualifiers and Main Event INu's Battles#17 <BO.9> Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
New Map Maker - Looking for Advice - Love or Hate Work In Progress Melee Maps [D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 532 Nuclear Family Mutation # 531 Experimental Artillery Mutation # 530 One For All
Brood War
General
ASL 22 Proposed Map Pool ProGamer Paychecks Story Data needed Best thing happen to StarCraft since Remastered? BW General Discussion
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL21] Grand Finals The Casual Games of the Week Thread [BSL22] GosuLeague Casts - Tue & Thu 22:00 CEST
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Creating a full chart of Zerg builds Relatively freeroll strategies Why doesn't anyone use restoration?
Other Games
General Games
ZeroSpace at Steam NextFest - Last free demo Path of Exile Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Beyond All Reason
Dota 2
Looking for a Dota Mentor Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread The Games Industry And ATVI Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine
Fan Clubs
The HerO Fan Club! The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! Series you have seen recently... [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books [TV/BOOK] *SPOILERS* Game of Thrones Discussion
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion McBoner: A hockey love story TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 Cricket [SPORT]
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Listen To The Coaches!
TrAiDoS
An Exploration of th…
waywardstrategy
I'm an arrogant trash talke…
FlaShFTW
Gauntlet SC2: A Retrospectiv…
Ctone23
ramps on octagon
StaticNine
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 6930 users

TL Health and Fitness Initiative 2012 - Page 272

Forum Index > Sports
Post a Reply
Prev 1 270 271 272 273 274 379 Next
ModernAgeShaman
Profile Joined January 2008
Norway484 Posts
July 17 2012 17:30 GMT
#5421
On July 18 2012 00:59 Catch wrote:
Unintended (awesome) side effect of lifting #1:

Was with a lady friend last night. She was feeling on my chest and said "Wow, your chest is so big. Must be all the training you do.'

Feelsgoodman.

Can't wait till she sees the quads


Waiting on those cut pictures man, you lost a lot of weight! Less blogging more posting pix!


On July 17 2012 Catch wrote:
Bench Press 140 lb x 4 reps


Do you have a lot of mass considering your strength levels? Or whats the deal here? Excited to see in anycase!
infinity21 *
Profile Blog Joined October 2006
Canada6683 Posts
July 17 2012 18:00 GMT
#5422
lol detective Sinep

Turns out that I suck at oly lifting if I train fasted. Couldn't even get 155 consistently today. Also doesn't help that I got new shoes + was thinking about my technique too much. Seems to mess everything up for me.
Official Entusman #21
funkie
Profile Blog Joined November 2005
Venezuela9376 Posts
July 17 2012 18:36 GMT
#5423
On July 18 2012 02:20 Osmoses wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 18 2012 00:59 Catch wrote:
Unintended (awesome) side effect of lifting #1:

Was with a lady friend last night. She was feeling on my chest and said "Wow, your chest is so big. Must be all the training you do.'

Feelsgoodman.

Can't wait till she sees the quads

[image loading]

CJ Entusman #6! · Strength is the basis of athletic ability. -Rippetoe /* http://j.mp/TL-App <- TL iPhone App 2.0! */
eshlow
Profile Joined June 2008
United States5210 Posts
July 17 2012 18:52 GMT
#5424
On July 17 2012 02:17 Malinor wrote:
My quadriceps sucks. I was in the middle of a training cycle to get me to a 200kg squat again, and after having all the volume in and moving to the intensity phase, I hurt myself doing jump robe. I am not really hurt badly, but from time to time while doing a wrong movement I can get a sharp pain through my quad, and it feels unstable in general. And basically when running above ~80% intensity, every step it hurts on the backside, outside of the right knee (so basically not the knee itself).
Took 6 weeks off squatting and deadlifting, no difference. Went to the doctor and got electro and physiotherapy, plus stopped all running for 3 weeks, no difference, nor worse nor better. I would really like to kill some puppies now. I feel like a curl-bro when I go to the gym, keeping myself busy with so much upper body stuff.
Anyway, today I just squatted again, 100kg 5x5. And of course, so since nothing that I do seems to make a difference, I just keep on squatting now. Just no weights where my technic could break down. And I'll just go to the doctor and try to get him to make a MRT.
On the plusside, I broke 110kg bw for the first time (109,8), even though I had a gigantic day of feasting on saturday. 10,8kg to go.
Unlikely that Phyre is gonna meet me there in time though, he does not know how to eat


How is your hip mobility?

A jacked up IT band can be compensating for other things.

What are you doing currently in therapy?
Overcoming Gravity: A Systematic Approach to Gymnastics and Bodyweight Strength
decafchicken
Profile Blog Joined January 2005
United States20166 Posts
July 17 2012 20:14 GMT
#5425
On July 18 2012 03:00 infinity21 wrote:
lol detective Sinep

Turns out that I suck at oly lifting if I train fasted. Couldn't even get 155 consistently today. Also doesn't help that I got new shoes + was thinking about my technique too much. Seems to mess everything up for me.

I try to avoid thinking about more than one thing if anything at all while o lifting. You just end up getting in the way of yourself
how reasonable is it to eat off wood instead of your tummy?
Malinor
Profile Joined November 2008
Germany4751 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-17 22:18:27
July 17 2012 20:22 GMT
#5426
On July 18 2012 03:52 eshlow wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 17 2012 02:17 Malinor wrote:
My quadriceps sucks. I was in the middle of a training cycle to get me to a 200kg squat again, and after having all the volume in and moving to the intensity phase, I hurt myself doing jump robe. I am not really hurt badly, but from time to time while doing a wrong movement I can get a sharp pain through my quad, and it feels unstable in general. And basically when running above ~80% intensity, every step it hurts on the backside, outside of the right knee (so basically not the knee itself).
Took 6 weeks off squatting and deadlifting, no difference. Went to the doctor and got electro and physiotherapy, plus stopped all running for 3 weeks, no difference, nor worse nor better. I would really like to kill some puppies now. I feel like a curl-bro when I go to the gym, keeping myself busy with so much upper body stuff.
Anyway, today I just squatted again, 100kg 5x5. And of course, so since nothing that I do seems to make a difference, I just keep on squatting now. Just no weights where my technic could break down. And I'll just go to the doctor and try to get him to make a MRT.
On the plusside, I broke 110kg bw for the first time (109,8), even though I had a gigantic day of feasting on saturday. 10,8kg to go.
Unlikely that Phyre is gonna meet me there in time though, he does not know how to eat


How is your hip mobility?

A jacked up IT band can be compensating for other things.

What are you doing currently in therapy?


Both doctors I saw told me that the mobility in my right hip was worse than in my left one. They found it weird but didn't really drew any conclusions from it.

I mostly got massages for the connective tissue in my quad. I also did some balancing-work: balance on one foot on a pillow and catch a ball, and some form of balancing (walking) on two bands, like funambulation just on two cords.

I also experience some discomfort on my back, not only in my quad, the problem really is that it is a different spot everyday that hurts. Since you asked here, I will just use this thread instead of the injury thread:

[image loading]
(The points on the outside are marked from both directions, so it is 4 spots in total)

These are basically the points were I am hurting. The problematic one is the one right above the knee, this one causes instability during all movements, especially when running at intervalls at a higher speed (80-90%). Generally the pain is located on the outside of the hip/leg.
The pain on my back is more a discomfort, it doesn't really cause any problems.

So I don't really know what to make of it, help would be very welcome at this point.

edit: the origin of the injury was sprinting. It got worse later after I twisted my leg during jump robe one time.

edit2: So I just did some jump robe and just landed out of place once, and I directly a sharp pain as a result: + Show Spoiler +
[image loading]

Felt totally just like quadriceps, but I don't know how these things are related. In general, a lot of explosive movements like jumps (but not all, depends on how I jump) cause me sharp pain.
"Withstand. Suffer. Live as you must now live. There will, one day, be answer to this." ||| "A life, Jimmy, you know what that is? It's the shit that happens while you're waiting for moments that never come."
extr3me
Profile Joined November 2010
Norway145 Posts
July 17 2012 21:11 GMT
#5427
Hi everyone!
Yes people i will try to take 210kg in squat, and perhaps I might go for 225-230kg also depends on my form this thursday .
Stay strong, forever strong!
Catch
Profile Joined September 2010
United States616 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-17 22:13:49
July 17 2012 22:12 GMT
#5428
On July 18 2012 02:30 Sinep wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 18 2012 00:59 Catch wrote:
Unintended (awesome) side effect of lifting #1:

Was with a lady friend last night. She was feeling on my chest and said "Wow, your chest is so big. Must be all the training you do.'

Feelsgoodman.

Can't wait till she sees the quads


Waiting on those cut pictures man, you lost a lot of weight! Less blogging more posting pix!


Show nested quote +
On July 17 2012 Catch wrote:
Bench Press 140 lb x 4 reps


Do you have a lot of mass considering your strength levels? Or whats the deal here? Excited to see in anycase!


Ask and you shall receive. Need more mass, which is one of the reasons I stopped cutting. But still proud :D

Before:
+ Show Spoiler +

[image loading]

[image loading]

[image loading]

[image loading]


After:
+ Show Spoiler +

[image loading]

[image loading]
I just like this picture because it looks like I am getting abs

[image loading]

[image loading]

[image loading]


All in all, I'm pretty happy. Wish I woulda lost some more around the love handles area, but whatcha gonna do.
Victory Loves Preparation
FFGenerations
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
7088 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-17 22:37:07
July 17 2012 22:35 GMT
#5429
nice, i like
i am up to like 92kg (say 89 minus shoes and uniform and keys etc) according to the scales at work
which is practically shocking!
actually could be less because isnt a morning measurment. could be like 87 i guess
Cool BW Music Vid - youtube.com/watch?v=W54nlqJ-Nx8 ~~~~~ ᕤ OYSTERS ᕤ CLAMS ᕤ AND ᕤ CUCKOLDS ᕤ ~~~~~~ ༼ ᕤ◕◡◕ ༽ᕤ PUNCH HIM ༼ ᕤ◕◡◕ ༽ᕤ
Steveling
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Greece10806 Posts
July 17 2012 22:51 GMT
#5430
Ok, so I started using a pull up bar. Thing is, I can't do even one. I can barely do a chin up and do 3-4 neutral grip pull ups but not a legit pull up.
How do I build towards it? Negatives?
My dick has shrunk to the point where it looks like I have 3 balls.
JingleHell
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States11308 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-17 22:53:39
July 17 2012 22:52 GMT
#5431
On July 18 2012 07:51 Steveling wrote:
Ok, so I started using a pull up bar. Thing is, I can't do even one. I can barely do a chin up and do 3-4 neutral grip pull ups but not a legit pull up.
How do I build towards it? Negatives?


Yeah, Negatives are good. Or, if you have a wife/roomie/GF/etc that's willing to humor you, you could do assisted. Grip the bar, hang, cross your ankles behind you, and have them lightly support your ankles.

I'd probably just do negatives though.

I've literally never been unable to do at least a few chin-ups/pull-ups, though, so I don't know what's actually better.
Steveling
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Greece10806 Posts
July 17 2012 22:55 GMT
#5432
On July 18 2012 07:52 JingleHell wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 18 2012 07:51 Steveling wrote:
Ok, so I started using a pull up bar. Thing is, I can't do even one. I can barely do a chin up and do 3-4 neutral grip pull ups but not a legit pull up.
How do I build towards it? Negatives?


Yeah, Negatives are good. Or, if you have a wife/roomie/GF/etc that's willing to humor you, you could do assisted. Grip the bar, hang, cross your ankles behind you, and have them lightly support your ankles.

I'd probably just do negatives though.

I've literally never been unable to do at least a few chin-ups/pull-ups, though, so I don't know what's actually better.



Negatives it is then. Thx mate, ).
My dick has shrunk to the point where it looks like I have 3 balls.
FFGenerations
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
7088 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-17 23:12:21
July 17 2012 23:07 GMT
#5433
i say it a lot, but if you cant even do 1 then dont accidently overstrain yourself by overdoing it, by swinging with your legs, or trying to hard, or whatnot. you can easily fuck your weak forearms

tbh you should try that thing we saw in a youtube vid a few pages back, where you lie/half lie/half stand under a bar and pull yourself up . i personally think unassisted negative chins/pulls are annoying and easy to hurt yourself with.

i couldnt do a single and now i can do maybe 3 just from power cleans (?) and some random dumbell curls
Cool BW Music Vid - youtube.com/watch?v=W54nlqJ-Nx8 ~~~~~ ᕤ OYSTERS ᕤ CLAMS ᕤ AND ᕤ CUCKOLDS ᕤ ~~~~~~ ༼ ᕤ◕◡◕ ༽ᕤ PUNCH HIM ༼ ᕤ◕◡◕ ༽ᕤ
GoTuNk!
Profile Blog Joined September 2006
Chile4591 Posts
July 17 2012 23:08 GMT
#5434
Keep getting stronger and fatter, not that much though, but cant wait to hit 82 (78.5 now) to cut 4kg and get ripped.

BP: 70x5, 80x5, 90x4, 100x2, 110x1, 120x1, 127.5x1, 130x1, 105x7
Pec Flies: 12.5x10x5
Dips: BWx12x5

Easy day of the week, more smolov tomorrow. I have pain in the same place as Malinor, not invalidating at all, but just fucking tight. After my last set of squats I have to lie on the ground till it stops hurting, but doesn't bother at all while squatting (nor benching).

More smolov tomorrow
JingleHell
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States11308 Posts
July 17 2012 23:11 GMT
#5435
On July 18 2012 08:07 FFGenerations wrote:
i say it a lot, but if you cant even do 1 then dont accidently overstrain yourself by overdoing it, by swinging with your legs, or trying to hard, or whatnot. you can easily fuck your weak forearms


My biggest issue is holding myself back. I'm doing semi-one arm, gripping the wrist, but I always start with the left side and then do the same number on the right, in an effort to keep from getting lopsided by being right-handed.

For some reason having my body imbalanced drives me insane, even though I'm very much right-handed, right side dominant, and right eye dominant. (Not that my eye really matters unless I'm shooting, but fuck it.)
FFGenerations
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
7088 Posts
July 17 2012 23:13 GMT
#5436
here do this imo

Cool BW Music Vid - youtube.com/watch?v=W54nlqJ-Nx8 ~~~~~ ᕤ OYSTERS ᕤ CLAMS ᕤ AND ᕤ CUCKOLDS ᕤ ~~~~~~ ༼ ᕤ◕◡◕ ༽ᕤ PUNCH HIM ༼ ᕤ◕◡◕ ༽ᕤ
infinity21 *
Profile Blog Joined October 2006
Canada6683 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-17 23:19:33
July 17 2012 23:19 GMT
#5437
On July 18 2012 08:13 FFGenerations wrote:
here do this imo
+ Show Spoiler +
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ehfj-toteTc


Imo the carry-over from this exercise to chin-ups is not very big. For anyone who needs to ask, if you want to get better at something, the best way is to do the movement itself. If you can't, then do negatives.
Official Entusman #21
FFGenerations
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
7088 Posts
July 17 2012 23:19 GMT
#5438
On July 18 2012 08:11 JingleHell wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 18 2012 08:07 FFGenerations wrote:
i say it a lot, but if you cant even do 1 then dont accidently overstrain yourself by overdoing it, by swinging with your legs, or trying to hard, or whatnot. you can easily fuck your weak forearms


My biggest issue is holding myself back. I'm doing semi-one arm, gripping the wrist, but I always start with the left side and then do the same number on the right, in an effort to keep from getting lopsided by being right-handed.

For some reason having my body imbalanced drives me insane, even though I'm very much right-handed, right side dominant, and right eye dominant. (Not that my eye really matters unless I'm shooting, but fuck it.)


how hard is it to do a 1-hand pullup/chinup then? :D that sounds like an epic goal
Cool BW Music Vid - youtube.com/watch?v=W54nlqJ-Nx8 ~~~~~ ᕤ OYSTERS ᕤ CLAMS ᕤ AND ᕤ CUCKOLDS ᕤ ~~~~~~ ༼ ᕤ◕◡◕ ༽ᕤ PUNCH HIM ༼ ᕤ◕◡◕ ༽ᕤ
JingleHell
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States11308 Posts
July 17 2012 23:23 GMT
#5439
On July 18 2012 08:19 FFGenerations wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 18 2012 08:11 JingleHell wrote:
On July 18 2012 08:07 FFGenerations wrote:
i say it a lot, but if you cant even do 1 then dont accidently overstrain yourself by overdoing it, by swinging with your legs, or trying to hard, or whatnot. you can easily fuck your weak forearms


My biggest issue is holding myself back. I'm doing semi-one arm, gripping the wrist, but I always start with the left side and then do the same number on the right, in an effort to keep from getting lopsided by being right-handed.

For some reason having my body imbalanced drives me insane, even though I'm very much right-handed, right side dominant, and right eye dominant. (Not that my eye really matters unless I'm shooting, but fuck it.)


how hard is it to do a 1-hand pullup/chinup then? :D that sounds like an epic goal


When you're in reasonable condition but weigh jack shit, like me? It's cake. Bear in mind, though, the way I originally got myself back in shape after my first massive Crohn's flareup, and losing and regaining weight, was through rock climbing while I was in Colorado.

Yesterday, at TKD, I was dicking around before class, and did a couple of one handed fingertip grip no thumb pull-ups with each hand.

A lot of my advantage, though, is just old mind over matter shit from my Army time. I know a lot better than the average person what "can't" really feels like.
infinity21 *
Profile Blog Joined October 2006
Canada6683 Posts
July 17 2012 23:28 GMT
#5440
On July 18 2012 05:14 decafchicken wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 18 2012 03:00 infinity21 wrote:
lol detective Sinep

Turns out that I suck at oly lifting if I train fasted. Couldn't even get 155 consistently today. Also doesn't help that I got new shoes + was thinking about my technique too much. Seems to mess everything up for me.

I try to avoid thinking about more than one thing if anything at all while o lifting. You just end up getting in the way of yourself

Yeah, I was just doing everything wrong today haha
I'll just do front squats tomorrow and try hang cleans again on Thurs.
Official Entusman #21
Prev 1 270 271 272 273 274 379 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
RSL Revival
02:00
S6 Americas Server Qualifier
CranKy Ducklings36
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
ProTech157
RuFF_SC2 144
Ketroc 63
StarCraft: Brood War
GuemChi 3765
Rain 3214
Artosis 658
NaDa 75
yabsab 32
Mind 27
Purpose 12
Dota 2
NeuroSwarm164
League of Legends
Doublelift13134
JimRising 675
Counter-Strike
taco 248
Super Smash Bros
AZ_Axe227
Mew2King65
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor148
Other Games
summit1g19723
Maynarde265
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick1170
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 17 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• davetesta23
• mYiSmile116
• Mapu13
• CranKy Ducklings SOOP5
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• sooper7s
• Migwel
• IndyKCrew
• Kozan
• intothetv
• AfreecaTV YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• masondota21364
League of Legends
• Jankos216
• Stunt128
Upcoming Events
WardiTV Weekly
8h 52m
RSL Revival
1d 7h
RSL Revival
1d 14h
Bombastic Starleague
1d 17h
Kung Fu Cup
2 days
OSC
2 days
CrankTV Team League
3 days
Bombastic Starleague
3 days
Replay Cast
3 days
The PondCast
4 days
[ Show More ]
HomeStory Cup
4 days
Replay Cast
4 days
HomeStory Cup
5 days
Replay Cast
5 days
HomeStory Cup
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
Douyu Cup 2026
Murky Cup 2026

Ongoing

IPSL Spring 2026
Acropolis #4
CSCL: Masked Kings S4
YSL S3
CSL Season 21: Qualifier 2
SCTL 2026 Spring
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
IEM Rio 2026

Upcoming

CSL 2026 Summer (S21)
ASL Season 22:Wild Card Qualifier
CSLAN 4
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Revival: Season 6
CranK Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League
HSC XXIX
BCC 2026
Light Tournament 2026
Eternal Conflict S2 Finale
Eternal Conflict S2 E1
Heroes Pulsing #3
FISSURE Playground #5
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.