It is my recommendation that you first read this article on the relationship between diet and exercise because it clears up many of the myths that you may have heard about specific effects of nutrition and exercise and their effects.
The first thing that needs to be said about training is what are your goals?
Goals determine what you are going to do. If you have goals, divide them into training, nutritional, sleep, stress/misc goals. These are the four main categories of health and fitness upon which everything is built.
As you may have noticed from the above articles, there are several factors which may affect your goals. Nutrition, in particular, is critical for losing or gaining weight. Weight loss goals tend to fall under fixing what you are eating rather than training; however, training can help to some extent.
Goals should be SMART goals:
Specific -- have numbers Measurable -- so you can be encouraged by your progress Attainable -- to develop the proper attitude and consistency Realistic -- so that you are willing and able to work towards them Timely -- to give a sense of urgency
What is currently in this thread is recommendations from the previous TL Health and Fitness main threads.
This means several things:
1. If you are a trained athlete in certain areas of exercise and have a good knowledge on how to coach beginners and are willing to write up some information to post in this topic that would be appreciated.
I know there are some endurance runners, cyclists, etc. on here. PM me any writeups you have that may be useful.
2. Currently, this main post is focused towards strength weight lifting and bodyweight strength training.
This is because these are two of the most effective means for beginners to add muscle and/or help stimulate fat loss in conjunction with diet. Previously, I have written on fitness myths that you may have heard in regards to gaining fat and/or losing muscle.
Cardio at its heart is a very weak at best at stimulating fat loss. For newer people to exercise, especially those looking to burn fat, cardio is very ineffective. You'll burn maybe 200-300 kcals per mile of exercise at best. Compare this to 3600 kcals in 1 lbs of fat we see at best you'll have to be running 12-18 miles just to burn one pound of fat. As a beginner even a couple miles is daunting, and people are expected to do at least this much for 1 lbs of fat?
This is why losing weight is done in the kitchen. There's a lot of pervasive myths in the fitness industry but when they say that "abs are made in the kitchen" that is actually true.
Weight training provides a stimulus for building muscle. Muscle is very hard to build because it requires lots of calories to actually build the muscle. If diet is strictly controlled, the body derives its energy from burning your fat mass to build the muscle. So in effect, you can "build muscle" and "lose fat" at the same time. (The caveat is that there is diminishing returns the leaner you get).
Therefore, for newer people looking to lose fat it is advisable to lift heavy weights and make sure your nutrition is in order. Weights are superior over cardio (which is about 15-20% of the equation), and nutrition makes up the rest (which is about 80-85% of the equation) in losing weight.
Don't get me wrong, cardio can be used effectively in some populations. However, for the average person looking to lose fat and/or gain muscle this is not one of them.
Light weights and high repetitions for toning
Toning is bullshit. What does it mean anyway to look more toned or defined?
Light weights high repetitions for toning is a huge myth that is pervasive in the fitness industry.
When you boil it down to the facts, "toning" just means you want to lose fat (to see your muscles) and/or make your muscles bigger. So basically when you say you want to "tone" you want to gain muscle and/or lose fat.
1. High repetitions works endurance. It does not put on muscle mass. Strike one. 2. High repetitions does not burn much fat. Just like cardio doesn't. Strike two. 3. There is no such thing as spot reduction. That is to say that doing endless amounts of situps does not make your abs more defined.
You have to put sufficient stress on a muscle to get it to grow. That is much easier done with heavy weights in the 5-8 repetition range (which, incidentally, is about the best repetition range for hypertrophy).
If you thought light weights and high repetitions was going to lose you fat mass you're sorely mistaken. If an hours or two of cardio burns less than a pound of fat mass, how do you think that a 30 minute workout of light weights and high repetitions (which is essentially what cardio is for the legs) is going to burn any significant amount of fat mass?
Therefore, for newer people looking to lose fat it is advisable to lift heavy weights and make sure your nutrition is in order. Weights are superior over cardio (which is about 15-20% of the equation), and nutrition makes up the rest (which is about 80-85% of the equation) in losing weight.
Testimonials of eliminating cardio from TL members: + Show Spoiler +
On June 18 2011 05:52 DimmuKlok wrote: Hello everyone!
I reached my weight loss goal that I set for myself when I originally posted in this thread(Although I forgot to be specific). My goal was to reach 250lbs by June and I'm at 247lbs as of today. That's 33lbs lost since I started posting here and 63lbs lost total.
Since I've reached my initial goal and I'm still not satisfied yet, I'm going to make my next goal to be 220lbs before September.
On August 13 2011 02:29 DimmuKlok wrote: Hello everyone, I'm back again with another update.
I quoted my last update for convenience. As of today I am 219.5lbs, meaning I reached my goal of hitting 220 by September! I'm very happy about this achievement. That's 90.5lbs lost so far from when I started in mid December at 310lbs.
I'm still not quite done, though. My next goal is to be 200lbs by Jan 1st of 2012. This goal I wasn't even sure could happen. When I first started losing weight I really only wanted to see if I could get to 250lbs, and if I could, then try to get to 230. Here I am at 219.5 and I'm looking at 200 being the ultimate goal. I have no idea what I'll look like when I do reach 200 because I've been overweight for so many years, but I'm eager to find out.
As for pictures, I don't have any right this moment but I do plan on uploading some. I will probably upload some before my next update (200 lbs) and for sure by Nov when everyone's supposed to post pictures. ^^
Thanks for reading everyone, and good luck with your own goals!
On August 13 2011 16:01 DimmuKlok wrote: I started off just eating less than I normally ate, although not changing what I ate, and going to the gym daily to use an elliptical for an hour. This was before I found this thread and before I did much research on getting fit. I lost 30lbs doing this but it started to get really hard to lose additional weight. I was convinced that all I needed to do to lose additional weight was to do even more cardio.
Then I found TL H&F. I received tons of helpful information from the OP and from asking question in the thread. I eventually came to the conclusion that what I was doing was inferior. I started SS and eating as Paleo as possible, all the while watching my caloric intake. I was worried at first because up until then I thought cardio was the only way to lose weight and the more cardio you did the more weight you lost. But I was wrong.
I stopped doing cardio completely and relied on my diet to lose weight. I was happily surprised to find that I was losing weight even faster than I was before, and it was a lot easier than doing cardio for a couple hours everyday. SS helped with the weight loss too, but I mostly love SS for all the strength gain. I've been doing SS and eating Paleo(ish) ever since and have lost 90.5lbs so far, with 110lbs as my goal.
I strongly recommend anyone that wants to lose weight to try out the Paleo diet. There's a lot of helpful information about it in the OP and I've had nothing but success with it.
Rest in progress...
3. Since most of the new people to the forum are looking to lose weight this is why we have made the recommendations we did in this thread. However, if you enjoy many other types of training then by all means go for it. However, if your goals are to lose fat and/or gain muscle you need to realize that your progress may not be as effective as if you adhered to the recommendations that we set forth in this thread.
A quick synopsis of exercise and training for beginners.
Exercise and training are two different things. Exercise is physical activity for its own sake, a workout done for the effect it produces today, during the workout or right after you're through.
Training is physical activity done with a longer-term goal in mind, the constituent workouts of which are specifically designed to produce that goal. If a program of physical activity isn't designed to get you stronger or faster or better conditioned by producing a specific stress to which a specific desirable adaptation can occur, you don't get to call it training. It's just exercise. For most people, exercise is perfectly adequate – it's certainly better than sitting on your ass channel-surfing. [...] For a novice, any program is better than no program at all, so all of them work with varying degrees of efficiency. This is why everybody thinks their program works, and why you'll always find perfectly honest testimonials for every new exercise program on TV or the Internet. But nothing works as well as a moderate mathematical increase in some loading parameter each time, for as long as an adaptation to the increase continues to occur, because it's specifically designed to produce both stress and adaptation.
1. Weights for the beginner (those looking to gain muscle and/or strength)
If you are new to working out and your goal is muscle mass and strength, Starting Strength is one of the best routines you can do. I would strongly suggest purchasing the book because it has at least 40-50 pages on squat technique alone along with the other technical aspects of the lifts that will help you make optimal progress. The writeup, however, is online in the link below.
On June 19 2011 07:41 Malinor wrote: I decided that I am done with Starting Strength after todays workout. I only resetted my squat once, but the frequency of missed lifts got pretty high lately. The day after tomorrow I will also visit my parents for one week, and I don't have the best training environment there. And finally, I believe one deloading week in between is probably a very smart thing to do. I am not 18 anymore And what better time to start a new programm after a deloading week.
Therefore, I decided to max out on squat and deadlift today: squat: 190x1 200x1 205x1 210x1 215x1 and 220kgx1 (150x6 afterwards) Bench: 80kg 5-5-5 (still easy) deadlift: 210x1 220kgx1 and finally failed 227,5kg, which would have been 502lb.
Maybe I am maxing out on overhead press tomorrow if I find the time. So next week is gonna be deload. Then I will start with Texas Method and work my way up to my actual 5RMs within four weeks, to acclimate myself with the new programm. So I won't hit new PRs for the next six weeks.
Final SS numbers (5RM): Squat: 185kg Press: 78,5kg Deadlift: 190kg BO-Row: 91kg (stopped 2 weeks ago) Bench: 80kg (obviously not my max, didn't bench much because of my shoulder injury) Power Clean: 72,5kg (3RM, also not my max, since I only started two weeks ago)
Date Squat Bench Press Dead BO-Row 26.Feb 90 x x 90 x 01.Mar 95 x 40 x 50 03.Mar 100 40 x 100 x 05.Mar 102,5 x 42,5 x 55 07.Mar 105 x x 105 x 09.Mar 107,5 x 45 x 60 11.Mar 110 50 x 110 x 13.Mar 112,5 x 50 x 62,5 15.Mar 115 55 x 115 x 17.Mar 117,5 x 52,5 x 65 19.Mar 120 60 x 125 x 22.Mar 122,5 x 55 x 67,5 24.Mar 125 i x 130 x 26.Mar 127,5 x 57,5 x 70 30.Mar 130 i x 135 x 01.Apr 132,5 x 60 x 72,5 03.Apr 135 i x 140 x 05.Apr 137,5 x 62,5 x 75 08.Apr 140 i x 145 x 11.Apr 142,5 x 63,5 x 77,5 13.Apr 145 i x 150 x 16.Apr 147,5 x 65 x 80 19.Apr 150 i x 155 x 21.Apr 152,5 x 66 x 81 23.Apr 155 i x 160 x 26.Apr 157,5 x 67,5 x 82,5 28.Apr 160 i x 165 x 30.Apr 162,5 x 68,5 x 83,5 03.Mai 165 i x 170 x 05.Mai 166 x 70 x 85 07.Mai 167,5 i x 175 x 10.Mai 168,5f x 71 x 86 12.Mai 168,5f 60 x 177,5 x 14.Mai 152,5 x 72,5 x 87,5 17.Mai 155 62,5 x 180 x 19.Mai 157,5 x 73,5f x 88,5 21.Mai 160 65 x 182,5f x 24.Mai 162,5 x 73,5 x 90s 26.Mai 165 67,5 x 182,5 x 28.Mai 167,5 x 75 x 90 31.Mai 170 70 x 185f x 02.Jun 172,5 x 76 x 91 04.Jun 175 72,5 x 185 x P.Clean 07.Jun 177,5f x 77,5 x 67,5 09.Jun 177,5 75 x 187,5 x 11.Jun 180 x 78,5f x 70 14.Jun 182,5 77,5 x 190 x 16.Jun 185f x 78,5f x 72,5 18.Jun 1RM 80 x 1RM x (220) (220)
_____________________________________________ Squat, Press, Bench and BO-Row: 3(Sets)x5(Reps) Deadlift: 1(Set)x5(Reps) Power Clean: 5(Sets)x3(Reps) i=injury f=fail s=same weight next session (i.e. form issues) all weights in kilogram
All in all, I never expected the past four months to be that productive.
To be continued....
2. Weights for the intermediate (those looking to gain mass and/or strength):
This is because losing fat and getting into shape are all part of the beginner phase of training.
As long as you have significant amounts of fat mass, you can generally make extremely good gains in both losing fat, gaining strength, and gaining muscle at the same time. Thus, having any appreciable amounts of body fat still makes you a "beginner" in training.
If you are offended at being called a beginner or novice this is not something you should be worried about! You should be able to make very good progress. This is not something to be "upset" about over being labeled into such a category.
And yes, people that have been in the gym for 10+ years can still be beginners. It's not how long you've been training, it's how effective your training has been in regards to your overall results.
If you have been training a while and your lifts in the basic compounds such as squat, deadlift, power cleans, do not exceed 2x bodyweight you can try some of the classic advanced novice or intermediate programs listed in the spoiler and link below.
DrillsAndSkills lists many good exercises. Roger's articles are also a gold mine for some of the particular techniques and nuances that need to be developed as well.
Jim's Beast Skills site has many skills that people want to strive for as well.
Coach Sommer's Building the gymnastic body has 100+ pages of picture demonstrated exercise progressions. I would recommend this if you are serious about bodyweight training.
Remember, form (e.g. physique) follows function (e.g. training for sports/athetics). If you train an a female athlete in the weight room you will start to look like one. And I would sincerely hope that you would rather be fit and athletic than super skinny/anorexic like society wants you to be.
Read the "Contents of this thread" #2 section for reasons on why cardio and low weights with high repetitions are not as effective for losing fat or other weight loss goals as strength training.
Bodyweight exercises - eshlow Strenth and muscular exercises - larjarse Long distance running - Titusmaster6, vx70GTOJudgexv Cardiovascular excercises - larjarse Weightlifting - Yogurt, decafchicken, eshlow Weightlifting especially in football - DeathByMonkeys Supplements - eshlow
Injuries - eshlow, OOl
OOI:
"I'm a physical therapy student with some decent knowledge of weight-training, MMA, brazillian jiu jitsu, sports-related injuries, posture-related issues, some computer-health issues and weightloss. (such as my carpal tunnel thread, see here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=113336"
In terms of testimonials about dropping cardio, I was running 3 miles/day every weekday before i encountered TLHF on recommendation from doctor.
After just 3 weeks of SS I was experiencing significantly less pain, and had put on a good amount of weight in a short period of time.
Still don't have that much weight, but in terms of general all around fitness, I can say that 3 weeks of SS did more for me than 3 months of constant cardio
What is a good routine to go on while cutting? I know I can't continue doing 5x5 because my body can't recover fast enough. Looking for something to do for ~8 weeks so nothing that requires a big deload would be best.
Well I've gained nearly 10 lb since I started. My lowest point 163 in week 2 because I was doing calorie cycling and 172 as of this morning. I expect to be around 180 by the end of the 12 weeks so I don't think I'd be that small. And also, the time coincides with final exams so I want a routine that takes less time to do. I'd imagine a routine made for cutting has less volume since recovery is negatively affected.
Oh well you're weight gain seems to be succesful, i thought you still would be as skinny as the last picture you took. Well i'd keep low reps heavy weight. Just look at some of those programs in the OP, after Starting Strength. Cut down on accessory movements if you don't think you can recover.
Thanks. I think I look the same but I'll try to take some pics for comparison since the scale is telling me otherwise. Trying to eat 3k calories a day but it's not easy when I get distracted and don't eat my first meal until 4 pm. I end up having to eat at midnight which is affecting my sleep. It's a vicious cycle
Right now I'm thinking of working out 2 times a week with something like: A: Squat, Press, Chin-up
B: DL, Bench, Chin-up
And doing reverse pyramid that I read on leangains. If I work pretty close to failure and don't eat a lot on my rest days, I don't think doing 3+ sets at 90%+ 1RM 3 times a week would be possible. I'll probably deload and get back on a higher volume training once exams finish, maybe 3x5 or keep going with 5x5 until I stall. I just need something to let me keep progressing even if I can only work out 2 times a week.
Really interested to see how much I'll get out of my 12 weeks of SL. I actually posted my progress earlier but I want to wait until the end of the 12 weeks to post my progression and pics. I really think I'll be able to reach 305 DL before the end!
Well i trained 4-5 times a week high volume while cutting, didn't have any problems with recovery. You won't make new PRs and some lifts go down. And you won't progress on a diet, training while dieting = keeping as much muscle mass as possible. Since you're not in an anabolic state, you won't build muscle. To be honest it's pretty much try and do what works for you. If you lose weight to quickly, lifts go down a lot, you know somethings wrong.
So right now im doing Mo: Upper (Strength 3-5 reps on big lifts 6-8 on everything else) Tue: Lower (Hypertrophy 8-12 on everything) We: Rest Thur: Upper (Hypertrophy) Fri: Lower (Strength) Weekend off
While i'm quite happy with my gains, my workouts take forever so im thinking:
Mo: Strength Upper Tue: Strength Lower We: Off Thur: Size Chest/Back/Calves Fri: Size Arms/Shoulders Weekends off
Well, obviously I know you have some pretty good experience with training so it seems OK on the surface.
It depends on what your goals are. If your workout routine (and exercises) align towards your goals then that's definitely fine. You didn't list then so I have no clue if they do or not.
Are you limited to 4 days a week? Otherwise your program seems pretty similar to Layne Norton's:
Day 1: Upper Body Power Day 2: Lower Body Power Day 3: Rest Day 4: Back and Shoulders Hypertrophy Day 5: Lower Body Hypertrophy Day 6: Chest and Arms Hypertrophy Day 7: Rest
Well my goal still is a fitness model-esque physique. The question really is, will my legs continue to grow when i only train them for strength once a week? Right now my workouts take 2 hours sometimes, which is just too long, i'm not really sure if i really need to spend this much time in the gym, hardly anyone else does. (And certainly no one from this forum)
I don't care much about strength other than it's super fun to lift heavy stuff.
Basically i fell like my weak points at this point are chest and arms. In my current workout i got BB Curls 4x12 and French Press 4x12 on the upper body days after 3 push and 3 pull exercises.
Didn't know the fitness board existed until just now. Was actually about to post a similar guide, although I personally believe SS to be a load of garbage, a lot of people swear by it. Glad to see this on TL.
On November 07 2011 17:56 Mortal wrote: Didn't know the fitness board existed until just now. Was actually about to post a similar guide, although I personally believe SS to be a load of garbage, a lot of people swear by it. Glad to see this on TL.
I'd be interested to know why you think it's garbage, as a lot of people have made huge gains with it.
On November 07 2011 17:56 Mortal wrote: Didn't know the fitness board existed until just now. Was actually about to post a similar guide, although I personally believe SS to be a load of garbage, a lot of people swear by it. Glad to see this on TL.
I'd be interested to know why you think it's garbage, as a lot of people have made huge gains with it.
I think it's decent if you're a straight up 100% know nothing about lifting novice, but it can be greatly improved. Especially if you're eating a relatively normal diet and don't know how to control your insulin and growth. However, if a lot of people follow the "eat a lot and do SS" they gain massive amounts of body fat along the way and don't know how to break their plateaus.
There are also a lot of misconceptions about it like the fact that doing squats (which SS has you do a lot of) magically releases extra testosterone into your system, among other things.
Maybe "garbage" was heavy-handed, but I believe it to be over-followed.
On November 07 2011 17:56 Mortal wrote: Didn't know the fitness board existed until just now. Was actually about to post a similar guide, although I personally believe SS to be a load of garbage, a lot of people swear by it. Glad to see this on TL.
I'd be interested to know why you think it's garbage, as a lot of people have made huge gains with it.
I think it's decent if you're a straight up 100% know nothing about lifting novice, but it can be greatly improved. Especially if you're eating a relatively normal diet and don't know how to control your insulin and growth. However, if a lot of people follow the "eat a lot and do SS" they gain massive amounts of body fat along the way and don't know how to break their plateaus.
There are also a lot of misconceptions about it like the fact that doing squats (which SS has you do a lot of) magically releases extra testosterone into your system, among other things.
Maybe "garbage" was heavy-handed, but I believe it to be over-followed.
1. It can be greatly improved?
The funny thing is I always hear claims about stuff like this yet I've never actually seen a proposed program that beats it out for gains in lean mass. If you have some proof of this (even anecdotal is fine comparisons) I'd be willing to consider adding something to OP.
Only thing I've seen come close is StrongLifts or possibly some of the HST or other highly used programs.
These named programs are used for a reason... which is because they work. And they work far better than the other kind of crap that most people throw together.
On November 07 2011 17:56 Mortal wrote: Didn't know the fitness board existed until just now. Was actually about to post a similar guide, although I personally believe SS to be a load of garbage, a lot of people swear by it. Glad to see this on TL.
I'd be interested to know why you think it's garbage, as a lot of people have made huge gains with it.
I think it's decent if you're a straight up 100% know nothing about lifting novice, but it can be greatly improved. Especially if you're eating a relatively normal diet and don't know how to control your insulin and growth. However, if a lot of people follow the "eat a lot and do SS" they gain massive amounts of body fat along the way and don't know how to break their plateaus.
There are also a lot of misconceptions about it like the fact that doing squats (which SS has you do a lot of) magically releases extra testosterone into your system, among other things.
Maybe "garbage" was heavy-handed, but I believe it to be over-followed.
1. It can be greatly improved?
The funny thing is I always hear claims about stuff like this yet I've never actually seen a proposed program that beats it out for gains in lean mass. If you have some proof of this (even anecdotal is fine comparisons) I'd be willing to consider adding something to OP.
Only thing I've seen come close is StrongLifts or possibly some of the HST or other highly used programs.
These named programs are used for a reason... which is because they work. And they work far better than the other kind of crap that most people throw together.
2. No misconceptions in this OP.
1. Yes it did not work for me personally nor for 3 of my friends that I helped get them working out. For me I worked out for about 6 months on almost exclusively SS, eating properly, getting proper rest, and I even cycles creatine for a time until I realized I was allergic to it (only presented in higher doses as I progressed). The gains that I had weren't in line with the gains I had from SL, nor from a semi-altered version of SL. I don't think that EVERY body can train the same way, and mine was clearly one (of the *possibly* many) exceptions.
2. I never said there were any misconceptions in your OP. All I meant was that there are those people that think squats will help them build upper body because of hormone releases, which is just not the case. I hone in on that specific example because it's one of the most repeated and alluded to.
Edit- I guess my other problem w/ SS other than my low gains is the fact that things like upper back are completely neglected. While power cleans are included (and chin-ups are optional?), the technical skill needed to properly do a power clean isn't even close to in the cards for someone new to lifting. I think at the very least chin-ups should be mandatory and rows incorporated. BB rows > cleans definitely for beginners and even for some intermediate lifters that don't have the discipline to learn proper cleans.
On November 07 2011 17:56 Mortal wrote: Didn't know the fitness board existed until just now. Was actually about to post a similar guide, although I personally believe SS to be a load of garbage, a lot of people swear by it. Glad to see this on TL.
I'd be interested to know why you think it's garbage, as a lot of people have made huge gains with it.
I think it's decent if you're a straight up 100% know nothing about lifting novice, but it can be greatly improved. Especially if you're eating a relatively normal diet and don't know how to control your insulin and growth. However, if a lot of people follow the "eat a lot and do SS" they gain massive amounts of body fat along the way and don't know how to break their plateaus.
There are also a lot of misconceptions about it like the fact that doing squats (which SS has you do a lot of) magically releases extra testosterone into your system, among other things.
Maybe "garbage" was heavy-handed, but I believe it to be over-followed.
1. It can be greatly improved?
The funny thing is I always hear claims about stuff like this yet I've never actually seen a proposed program that beats it out for gains in lean mass. If you have some proof of this (even anecdotal is fine comparisons) I'd be willing to consider adding something to OP.
Only thing I've seen come close is StrongLifts or possibly some of the HST or other highly used programs.
These named programs are used for a reason... which is because they work. And they work far better than the other kind of crap that most people throw together.
2. No misconceptions in this OP.
1. Yes it did not work for me personally nor for 3 of my friends that I helped get them working out. For me I worked out for about 6 months on almost exclusively SS, eating properly, getting proper rest, and I even cycles creatine for a time until I realized I was allergic to it (only presented in higher doses as I progressed). The gains that I had weren't in line with the gains I had from SL, nor from a semi-altered version of SL. I don't think that EVERY body can train the same way, and mine was clearly one (of the *possibly* many) exceptions.
2. I never said there were any misconceptions in your OP. All I meant was that there are those people that think squats will help them build upper body because of hormone releases, which is just not the case. I hone in on that specific example because it's one of the most repeated and alluded to.
Edit- I guess my other problem w/ SS other than my low gains is the fact that things like upper back are completely neglected. While power cleans are included (and chin-ups are optional?), the technical skill needed to properly do a power clean isn't even close to in the cards for someone new to lifting. I think at the very least chin-ups should be mandatory and rows incorporated. BB rows > cleans definitely for beginners and even for some intermediate lifters that don't have the discipline to learn proper cleans.
1. I find that hard to believe you didn't gain significant amounts of muscle mass with all of that dialed in. Every relatively skinny person I know who has done it "right" has gotten their squat/dl/etc. above 1.25 or 1.5x bodyweight squat and put on lots of lean tissues.
I'd have to see your starting numbers, end numbers, height, weight, before and after photos,etc.
2a. That's why the book has a whole section devoted to teaching power cleans. There's nothing wrong with teaching technical skills to new people; however, if they're doing it without guidance then that may be a bad thing.
I think if you're too lazy to buy the book then chins or rows are acceptable to substitute, but don't think that you get the same stimulus as with power cleans.
2b. Press, if done correctly, works back. As does DL. Bench works scap retractors, Power clean works back. All of these exercises if performed correctly work everything together.
You don't see Olympic lifters doing any back specific work yet their backs are huge because they do DL/C&J/snatch/jerks/etc. Same concept.
This is not to say I am anti-back work. I do think there is enough in the beginner programs like SS/SL5x5/etc. to keep the shoulder girdle balance IFFF correct technique is adhered to.
Do you guys have any objections to steady cardio for general health and wellness? I have been doing starting strength and am now doing advanced novice, my lifts (5reps) are as follows: Squat: 65kg Overhead: 35kg Bench: 50kg Deadlift: 70kg(feels kinda easy, I reduced weight when I took two weeks off for final year exams.) My bodyweight last time i checked was 57kg, ( I have a suspicion I lost weight over Christmas and new years, though I haven't checked), and I'm very short (I can't remember measurements I think I'm in 160cm's) My workouts typically last for up to an hour and a quarter, but I want to cut that time down to like 40mins, mainly because I am going to do an honours year in university, and from what I hear there's a lot of study involved, plus travel +getting enough sleep eats into my time. I eat mainly paleo +low fat flavoured milk (on lifting days as post workout, http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/research-review/milk-as-an-effective-post-exercise-rehydration-drink.html) + white potatoes + rice(I try to keep rice to a minimum but I am Indian and live with my parents, so intake of some rice is inevitable). I also do a leangains fasted morning training - diet timing(essentially it is: intermittent fasting + lifting kinda fasted in the morning with BCAAs) more info should be: leangains.com Also I ask about cardio because I am under the impression it has some health benefits, I am not overweight, I have a "four pack"/flat belly (healthwise is a six pack ideal?) I am thinking weights and cardio on alternating days, take Sunday off, cardio to 30mins, weights to 40mins(try to maintain my strength but keep rest times between sets to 2mins) If you guys think that strength training has more benefits in terms of general health (I have no desire of becoming a specialised athlete), then a cardio-weights routine, then I shall continue on with advanced novice -> Texas method and try to wake up earlier.
EDIT: Maybe I should simply just say: I would like to optimise brain function, like concentration etc, and I want to reduce fatigue (which I sometimes get on heavy lifting (deadlift) days), while spending as little time as necessary to maintain my strength. I know sleep + proper diet should fix those but I keep getting told that regular cardio should help me sleep better, concentrate better and feel more energetic (which I think should help me out in my studies, fat loss is not a concern for me)
If you need more time, lifting is still very much healthy.
I'd go to the gym and maybe do 1-3 lifts with weights. Then run the rest of the time you have if you want to do some cardio. You can do that 2-3x a week.... then run on some other days if you wanted.
That should help shorten your routine and make it more viable.
Hi guys! I'm 17 and 173 cm. I weigh about 75 kilos and have some (well kind of alot) of belly fat I wanna get rid of. Should I do cardio or strength training/ lifting? Or a combination of both? My diet consists of lots of veggies and eggs and stuff and bread. I don't know what would be more effective to get rid of my belly fat and lose bodyfat in general to get that sex pack sooner! Thank you in advance :D And cardio I think of running, epiliptical machine.
On May 07 2012 22:20 KTF_CloaK wrote: Hi guys! I'm 17 and 173 cm. I weigh about 75 kilos and have some (well kind of alot) of belly fat I wanna get rid of. Should I do cardio or strength training/ lifting? Or a combination of both? My diet consists of lots of veggies and eggs and stuff and bread. I don't know what would be more effective to get rid of my belly fat and lose bodyfat in general to get that sex pack sooner! Thank you in advance :D And cardio I think of running, epiliptical machine.
Male btw.
Read the OP man...
Strength training
veggies and eggs are good. Meat, fish, etc are good too. Eliminate the bread and other refined carbohydrates if possible
On May 08 2012 18:16 KTF_CloaK wrote: I still go to high school got any tips on food I can bring to school instead of bread? thanks for the replies too!
The guys from my class bring chicken breast or minced beef and rice to school every day. You could also boil a bunch of eggs and bring them. All of these options are fast to make, cheap and easy to bring. But there is so many options.. I would do what eshlow recommends and read the stickies. They contain tons of information..
Lol eating bread is fine. Meat and fish have calories too. So has rice. Whole grain bread is better than rice anyway.
If you want to burn fat you have to throw the junk food out of your diet and do cardio several times a week. When I was 17 I just ate what I wanted, worked out twice a week and had a six pack without problems. Now I know many other people that age don't.
Where your fat is distrubuted is genetic. You have to lower body fat in general to lose belly fat. For many males the belly is the last place where it comes off.
If you are in shape and eating healthy foods and you don't get the abs you want you may want to evaluate. Because then either your diet isn't really that clean, you aren't working out hard enough, you haven't got the genetics for a good low bodyfat six pack or your goal in unrealistic. Only at that point you may decide to go on an extreme diet with no bread at all.
Really telling a 17 yo he can't eat any bread period because he wants better looking abs is pretty funny. Calories are calories. If they come from fat, protein or carbs doesn't really matter. He either doesn't work out enough or eats too much of what he eats if it truly contains no junk food.
Lifting weights burns few calories. What you need to do is use your big muscles for a long time, getting your heart beat up. Your biggest muscles are in your legs and they can burn the most energy. If you are starting out I would recommend cycling or swimming over running for several reasons.
I don't know what cardio machines are good. To me especially with this weather and living in the Netherlands, go cycling. Much more enjoyable being outside for me at least. I have heard many people say several cardio machines aren't that good anyway. But if they get your heart rate up, they should work fine anyway.
Getting ripped is mostly diet, so yea like the others have said read the stickies. No junk food, soft drinks and candy. This should be priority whether you go paleo or not. I usually drop some chicken and vegetables in a sauce pan with olive oil, put that in a lunch box with a fork rubber banded to the box. I have access to a fridge and microwave on my campus so I can reheat that later. Sometimes I also bring cans of tuna and salad in a box, this does not require reheating. I also take a serving fruit with me everyday, usually in a different lunch box. As for cardio... I honestly don't think the training needs to be geared specifically towards burning calories, the leaner you get being in a calorie deficit doesn't guarantee that your fat will burn, it might burn muscle instead. You can get ripped without cardio.
On May 23 2012 07:26 Miyoshino wrote: Only at that point you may decide to go on an extreme diet with no bread at all.
There is nothing magic or holy about bread, that removing it should be deemed extreme.
The reason he is eating bread is because that's convenient for him to carry to school. Now he needs to eat something and get some calories and micronutrients. Whole grain bread is a great way to do that. Just eat the same amount of calories in bread that you wanted to eat in tuna.
Yes you can get ripped by eating very little and doing some weight lifting. But that's the stupid way to do stuff. Burning calories for most people is easier than eating very little. Therefore, the best and healthiest way for people to get a calorie deficit is to eat clean and do a lot of cardio. And cardio has advantages besides burning calories.
Also, people may be comparing themselves too much with fitness models that only look that way for 1 month a year and are probaby using steroids anyway. What is wrong with being at 14% body fat?
It's arguable whether grain whole or not are 'great', but it has been done to death. No one will change their opinions on it. But I do not think there is any reason to feel as though you need bread.
I am not advocating eating little. You will not get ripped if you eat little, you will just end up skinny and weak. To clarify I intended to state being in a large calorie deficit for a reasonably weighted individual will do more harm than good in terms of fat mass.When there is more muscle to catabolise than fat to metabolise I'd think any cardio routines become an issue, unless your intention is for performance in said exercise, which in this case it is not.
Nothing is wrong with 14 % body fat (that's why I'm lifting weights and drinking milk), but isn't the discussion to give advice on getting a good 'sex pack'? Are you here just to disagree with people?
He wants to lose body fat and he claims to have quite a bit of belly fat. You will lose not a single gram of fat unless you have a calorie deficit. Why would the body excrete precious calories because it can burn 'essential' fat reserves instead?
You won't get ripped unless you eat little. Getting ripped to me means having quite low body fat so that all the muscle show. Now he didn't say he wants to get ripped at 8% body fat. Now it won't look very nice if you have very little mucle to begin with, but that's a different issue.
Cardio won't burn muscle, if that is what you are suggesting. It would make no sense from an evolutionary standpoint for a human to burn away muscle when he has 'kind of a lot' of belly fat. That's what belly fat is for.
You don't need bread. You don't even need carb heavy food. You need the proper micro and macro nutrition, the calorie deficit to burn the muscle and whatever other workout to achieve other fitness goals like improving endurance or strength. I am not saying bread is great. I am saying whole grain bread is a great source of carbs. The question is how many carbs a person needs.
The solution to his situation is to clean up the diet and do cardio. When he doesn't see the results he wants he either needs to do more cardio, or adjust his diet even more. It is not rocket science. Cut out the empty calories/junk food, do some cardio and crank it up to a pretty serious level if needed and do portion control on foods that are high on calories.
i don't even know what the fuck this discussion is about i feel like i just read the same post 6 times.
Don't eat shitty food. If it is comprised mostly of sugar or heavily processed, avoid it. If you don't have to cook it, you should probably avoid that too (besides fruits and veges obv)
Do cardio. Don't do cardio. It doesn't really fucking matter. Abs are made in the kitchen. If you wanna burn some extra calories with cardio - look in to high intensity interval training
Lift weights. Don't lift weights. It still doesnt really matter. If you want your body to recompose faster and have more muscle to show off once you lose that fat, then do some basic barbell exercises MENTIONED IN THE STICKIES LIKE EVERYTHING ELSE YOU NEED TO KNOW AND THAT ANSWERS ALL OF YOUR INQUIRIES. If you don't than just keep eating healther.
It is true that abs are made in the kitchen and that you can burn only so many calories with cardio. But not eating them and burning them with cardio are the same thing.
Problem is so many people have misunderstandings so it needs to be explained to them many times.
I'm curious about the statement that cardio is not useful because it burns a low number of calories, but i've heard from several sources that doing 30 or more minutes of cardio (that is to say keeping your heart rate up for 30+ minutes) leads to your body burning more calories in the time after the cardio as well.
Running a half marathon makes you feel pretty fit. Also..repetitions, heavy weights, light weights, none of that matters, all that matters is that every time you push your muscles to the limit, because that will be a sign for your body to make more muscles to adapt better.
On July 05 2012 18:13 killerdog wrote: I'm curious about the statement that cardio is not useful because it burns a low number of calories, but i've heard from several sources that doing 30 or more minutes of cardio (that is to say keeping your heart rate up for 30+ minutes) leads to your body burning more calories in the time after the cardio as well.
Generally speaking, the effects are between maybe 100-200 calories at most.... which isn't anything significant in the grand scheme of things. Someone can go drink a soda afterward and undo everything they did.
That's why losing fat is almost ALL in the kitchen... if your diet doesn't reflect reduced calories then you won't lose weight period.
Cardio can help, but it is not a major factor in fat loss... it's the kitchen that is the major factor.
Also, don't read anything from scooby please. There's half fact and half fitness myths in his vids on youtube (and likely his site but I cannot confirm or deny this as I am not going to visit his site to do that), and for someone new to exercise/nutrition you can't pick out what is good and what is wrong.
On July 05 2012 18:38 SupplyBlockedTV wrote: Running a half marathon makes you feel pretty fit. Also..repetitions, heavy weights, light weights, none of that matters, all that matters is that every time you push your muscles to the limit, because that will be a sign for your body to make more muscles to adapt better.
You won't build much muscle running endurance...?
And of course weight lifting matters. Elite runners of all distances, sprints, middle distance, marathons, etc. use weights to improve their performance. The studies show this.
The only people who think weight lifting doesn't matter are recreational athletes who don't know anything about performance training.
There's so much debate and misunderstanding everywhere I go on the internet when it comes to weightlifting vs cardio. Why not just do what you enjoy the most? It's pretty terrible how there's so many different opinions on it all, giving newbies like me a hard time trying to figure out what to do without going through trial and error.
Here's what I've learned over the years of trial and error after reading through countless articles, watching numerous videos, reading over posts here on TL... I've basically tried doing nothing but cardio, nothing but weight lifting, and now I'm currently doing a combination of both.
Cardio alone is pretty much terrible for overall bodybuilding. When I did nothing but cardio to try to lose weight, I did lose some, built up an amazing amount of endurance , but I didn't look too great. I didn't do any heavy lifting at all. So I was still weak looking because, well I was weak after all.
When I did nothing but weight lifting I didn't feel like I did as much work as I did with running, but I definitely could see the results which was very motivational. I didn't lose any weight though, which I assume is because muscles weigh more than fat. So maybe I burned some fat and threw on more muscle and it kinda balanced out.
After going through that ordeal it really hit me that I just needed to stop eating like a pig and work out in any shape and form in order to lose weight. The OP pretty much says it all you just have to accept it. But I like to put cardio in my workout because I like to run. Plus I feel like its a good way to see the results of leg presses or squats since they work out your legs so much. I'm still a novice but I think that working out your legs with weights beats the hell out of just sprinting everyday.
This may be pretty off the beaten path (as will most of my advice, as most of the strength/conditioning advice already posted is dandy indeed), but I think people with back/neck/shoulder pain should start thinking about strengthening their deep neck muscles. I'm not talking about the shitty/stringy muscles that you can see in your neck, I'm taking about the ones WAY down in there behind your wind-pipe.
My experience with this has come recently due to having physical therapy twice a week to remedy my jacked up shoulder. I've always had upper back/neck pain, but it was never actually debilitating. Out of curiousity, my PT suggested I get on the floor and do a deep neck exercise to see how strong those muscles were. What he found was rather surprising to me. Because I lead a lifestyle which puts my behind a desk for the vast majority of my time, my deep neck muscles could barely hold my head up off the ground for 10 seconds.
Do this test for yourself. Lay down on the floor (feet flat or straight out in front of you, whatever you're comfortable with), and nod your chin down toward your chest VERY slightly. Not even a half-nod, just enough that you can feel a difference in tension. Then simply raise your head off the ground JUST enough such that someone could slide a piece of paper under it (focus on elongating the back of your neck and making somewhat of a double-chin in the front). What I've found after just a week of doing this is significantly less pain in my upper back and an accellerated rate of improvement to my shoulder (it's similar to fixing the lower back for someone that has a hip injury, and vice versa).
Give it a try! Possibly more unusual advice to come.
I'm obviously not a coach or anything, which is in fact the cause of this issue, but I have some criticisms of SS. I've started about 10 people on SS.
First off is cleans. In my opinion it's a dumb exercise to give an absolute beginner to strength training, at least if there's no coach to teach them how to do it. Every time I've given SS to someone I've linked the california strength Pendlay videos, and set them loose with all the info. With one exception it's been pretty disastrous.
The people from rugby who'd already done a bit or training were slightly better, and one friend who plays centre has really taken to them and he's pretty impressive at them. But, I've seen a front row who is nowhere near able to do a front rack stand up, then basically do a 70kg barbell front raise, then take all the weight on bent wrists not even close to his shoulders. He's a smart guy but it wasn't hurting so he thought there was no issue, I think it's easy to forget that the stuff that seems common sense to us was probably just learned/read at some stage. I've also seen another guy from my course do the sketchiest clean ever because he still can't squat without his knees wobbling.
I don't workout with these people, they're just people who asked me for a routine and I left them to it. I kind of feel that it's a bad idea to put cleans in a beginner program, or at least absolute beginner, so I've been recommending barbell rows in their place (i.e. StrongLifts basically).
You ask them to learn the squat, which to a lot of people feels alien. And then they need to learn the DL which is not done like a squat. Then you're asking them to learn the clean which is not deadlifted up, even though they're trying to drill the DL movement into their heads, oh and when you clean you need to forget any low bar squat form you learned as you now need to bring your knees forwards not your hips so far back.
To be honest with people who are new to the gym I don't even want to recommend bench straight away. I'm inclined to say just
Squat
OHP
Chin-Up (or row if they can't chin)
5x5 three times a week. I would have thought OHP will carry them for months before they start bench, and I'm increasingly convinced you can get a good DL just from improving your squat (apart from form).
I'd appreciate someone telling me why I'm wrong! As I said I'm no coach and I seem to disagree with Rippetoe and the whole of the internet on this, so I'm probably the one who's wrong.
On March 10 2013 18:36 Deadeight wrote: I'm obviously not a coach or anything, which is in fact the cause of this issue, but I have some criticisms of SS. I've started about 10 people on SS.
First off is cleans. In my opinion it's a dumb exercise to give an absolute beginner to strength training, at least if there's no coach to teach them how to do it. Every time I've given SS to someone I've linked the california strength Pendlay videos, and set them loose with all the info. With one exception it's been pretty disastrous.
The people from rugby who'd already done a bit or training were slightly better, and one friend who plays centre has really taken to them and he's pretty impressive at them. But, I've seen a front row who is nowhere near able to do a front rack stand up, then basically do a 70kg barbell front raise, then take all the weight on bent wrists not even close to his shoulders. He's a smart guy but it wasn't hurting so he thought there was no issue, I think it's easy to forget that the stuff that seems common sense to us was probably just learned/read at some stage. I've also seen another guy from my course do the sketchiest clean ever because he still can't squat without his knees wobbling.
I don't workout with these people, they're just people who asked me for a routine and I left them to it. I kind of feel that it's a bad idea to put cleans in a beginner program, or at least absolute beginner, so I've been recommending barbell rows in their place (i.e. StrongLifts basically).
You ask them to learn the squat, which to a lot of people feels alien. And then they need to learn the DL which is not done like a squat. Then you're asking them to learn the clean which is not deadlifted up, even though they're trying to drill the DL movement into their heads, oh and when you clean you need to forget any low bar squat form you learned as you now need to bring your knees forwards not your hips so far back.
To be honest with people who are new to the gym I don't even want to recommend bench straight away. I'm inclined to say just
Squat
OHP
Chin-Up (or row if they can't chin)
5x5 three times a week. I would have thought OHP will carry them for months before they start bench, and I'm increasingly convinced you can get a good DL just from improving your squat (apart from form).
I'd appreciate someone telling me why I'm wrong! As I said I'm no coach and I seem to disagree with Rippetoe and the whole of the internet on this, so I'm probably the one who's wrong.
you don't disagree with the whole internet on this. You disagree with thousands of BB.com members who probably haven't been lifting more than 6 months, and hordes of redditors that can't actually squat their own body weight.
the main criticisms of SS are the low bar squat vs. clean vs. deadlift problem (hell, I was deadlifting wrong for over a YEAR) and the lack of emphasis on pulling. There's way more focus on bench (and to a lesser extent press) than on pulling in the opposing directions, even though most new lifters are going to have that problem, mentally, anyway.
Plus the whole "get fat to get your lifts up" issue.
Yeah, the get fat to get your lifts up and rejection of anything that isn't low-rep compounds are big flaws I feel like. And judging by how happy /r/fitness people get over someone gaining 20 pounds (and still looking skinny and unathletic) I doubt most do what they say. I've had success letting people follow SS with lat pulldowns for 3 months and then have them lift 4x a week with 3x3-5 reps of a compound, 2 exercises at 3x8-12 and 2 exercises of vanity work (biceps/triceps abs). Wish I'd done it like that.
On April 01 2013 04:37 NeedsmoreCELLTECH wrote: Yeah, the get fat to get your lifts up and rejection of anything that isn't low-rep compounds are big flaws I feel like. And judging by how happy /r/fitness people get over someone gaining 20 pounds (and still looking skinny and unathletic) I doubt most do what they say. I've had success letting people follow SS with lat pulldowns for 3 months and then have them lift 4x a week with 3x3-5 reps of a compound, 2 exercises at 3x8-12 and 2 exercises of vanity work (biceps/triceps abs). Wish I'd done it like that.
I've "trained" a half dozen guys over the past few years using SS or SL-type routines, and each of them quit going to the gym within 2 months of starting. It was just boring - they did the same thing every day, weren't seeing any progress in directions that they cared about (looking good, not just pulling big weights) and were sore/tired all the time, because they didn't want to eat enough to get fat.
I've currently got two guys on push/pull routines, and they're having a great time. We mix strength and hypertrophy work, and the guys see progress on both their lifts, and in the mirror. When one is slacking, the other is moving up, and there's always something to keep them motivated. I'm learning very quickly as I branch out in weight lifting that the best program isn't necessarily the 'best program' - it's the program that you'll best commit to.
since we're on the topic, has anyone thought of adding in other programs to this sticky for people who aren't just looking to get their big 3 lifts up?
And following up on ieatkids' question, are there any programs you guys recommend that use dumbbells/any other equipment other than your body and barbells?
On April 02 2013 04:09 MtlGuitarist97 wrote: And following up on ieatkids' question, are there any programs you guys recommend that use dumbbells/any other equipment other than your body and barbells?
On April 02 2013 04:09 MtlGuitarist97 wrote: And following up on ieatkids' question, are there any programs you guys recommend that use dumbbells/any other equipment other than your body and barbells?
you can always do SL 5x5 or SS's 3x5 program using dumbbells. the only exercises you'll have difficulty doing are squats and deadlifts. just find something to substitute those if you really cant get access to a barbell and rack. like pistols + core work for squats. db deadlifts + core work for barbell deadlifts.
On March 10 2013 18:36 Deadeight wrote: I'm obviously not a coach or anything, which is in fact the cause of this issue, but I have some criticisms of SS. I've started about 10 people on SS.
First off is cleans. In my opinion it's a dumb exercise to give an absolute beginner to strength training, at least if there's no coach to teach them how to do it. Every time I've given SS to someone I've linked the california strength Pendlay videos, and set them loose with all the info. With one exception it's been pretty disastrous.
The people from rugby who'd already done a bit or training were slightly better, and one friend who plays centre has really taken to them and he's pretty impressive at them. But, I've seen a front row who is nowhere near able to do a front rack stand up, then basically do a 70kg barbell front raise, then take all the weight on bent wrists not even close to his shoulders. He's a smart guy but it wasn't hurting so he thought there was no issue, I think it's easy to forget that the stuff that seems common sense to us was probably just learned/read at some stage. I've also seen another guy from my course do the sketchiest clean ever because he still can't squat without his knees wobbling.
I don't workout with these people, they're just people who asked me for a routine and I left them to it. I kind of feel that it's a bad idea to put cleans in a beginner program, or at least absolute beginner, so I've been recommending barbell rows in their place (i.e. StrongLifts basically).
You ask them to learn the squat, which to a lot of people feels alien. And then they need to learn the DL which is not done like a squat. Then you're asking them to learn the clean which is not deadlifted up, even though they're trying to drill the DL movement into their heads, oh and when you clean you need to forget any low bar squat form you learned as you now need to bring your knees forwards not your hips so far back.
To be honest with people who are new to the gym I don't even want to recommend bench straight away. I'm inclined to say just
Squat
OHP
Chin-Up (or row if they can't chin)
5x5 three times a week. I would have thought OHP will carry them for months before they start bench, and I'm increasingly convinced you can get a good DL just from improving your squat (apart from form).
I'd appreciate someone telling me why I'm wrong! As I said I'm no coach and I seem to disagree with Rippetoe and the whole of the internet on this, so I'm probably the one who's wrong.
I follow a modified beginner SS program which is close to what you suggested:
Monday 3x5 Squat 3x5 Bench press / Press (Alternating) Chin-ups: 3 sets to failure or add weight if completing more than 15 reps Wednesday 3x5 Squat 3x5 Press / Bench Press (Alternating) 1x5 Deadlift Friday 3x5 Squat 3x5 Bench Press / Press (Alternating) Pull-ups: 3 sets to failure or add weight if completing more than 15 reps
I'm thinking however on doing something for my upperbody on wednesday instead of the squat and/or deadlift. Little bit too much lowerbody work on wednesday imo. Any suggestions? Maybe Chin/Pull?
On April 19 2013 03:31 ieatkids5 wrote: you could do some sort of horizontal pulling exercise, since you don't have any of that. barbell or dumbbell rows maybe.
1. Flat BB Bench 3x3-5. Progress each workout. 3-5 Minutes between sets.
2. Shoulder Assistance - Choose 1-2. 2-3 Minutes between sets. Incline BB Bench 3x5-8 Incline DB Bench 3x8-12 (Weighted) Dips 3x5-8 Close Grip BB Bench Press 3x5-8
3. Tricep Isolation - Choose 1-2. Do what you can. 1-2 Minutes between sets. Rope Pressdown 3x10 (Weighted) Bench Dips 3x10 French Press 3x10 Reverse Grip Bench Press 3x10
4. Front Squat 3x3-5. Aim for linear progression. 3-5 Minutes between sets.
5. Quads Assistance - Choose 1. Leg Press 3x8-12 Leg Extension 3x8-12 Lunges 3x5-8
Pull:
1. (Weighted) Chinups 3x5-8 progress each workout. 3-5 Minutes between sets.
2. Upper Back Assistance - Choose 1-2. 2-3 Minutes between sets. Pullups 3x5-8 V-bar pulldowns 3x8-12 Bench DB rows 3x8-12 Pendlay Row 3x5-8
3. Biceps Isolation - Choose 1. Do what you can 1-2 minutes between sets. Preacher Curl 3x10 Atn. Dumbbell Curl 3x10 Hammer Curl 3x10 BB Curl 3x10
4. Deadlift 3 sets ramping to top set of 5. Increase no less than 10% of top weight per set. Aim for linear progression. 3-5 minutes between set.
5. General Deadlift Assistance - Choose 1 Speed Deadlift 5x3 Power Clean 5x3 Deficit Deadlift 5x3 Snatch Grip Deadlift 5x3
5. Low Back Assistance - Choose 1 Reverse Hyperextension 3x10 (Weighted) Hyperextension w/ Pause 3x10 Bent Knee Good Morning 3x10
5. Glutes Assistance - Choose 1 BB Hip Thrust 3x10 Bulgarian Split Squat 3x10
5. Hamstring Assistance - Choose 1 Single leg Prone Hamstring Curl 3x10 RDL 3x10
This is the "template" for the routine I'm using with guys right now (4 of them). It's done as an AxBx repeat split, meaning 7 workouts every two weeks. Each one of them are skinny as hell, so this is a routine they're using to bulk. Their goals are all to look better (for now) - but I hope that one of them will change their mind on that. The progression is... difficult right now. Two of the guys still aren't flexible enough to get a straight back on the deadlift, and I've just recently changed them all from back squats to front squats because front squats seem MUCH easier to learn, and because none of them particularly care about being able to squat 140kg.
To find starting weights we usually go with the SS first workout - take the exercise, do it for 5. Add weight, do 5 more. Repeat until bar speed begins to slow down, this is the weight for workout 1. It's still very easy to overestimate this weight, because with someone who's truly new... they're not going to bench more than 60-65 pounds, if that. The second exercise, if it's similar enough (incline with flat bench for example) is done off a percentage of the first lift. If they aren't similar (squats and leg extensions) then it's partly the previous pattern, and partly a guessing game (which I turned out to be pretty good at.)
The listed exercises are just examples - anything that properly targets the given area as a priority can be done in their place, those are just some good exercises to do the job. We do a lot of talking about how the goal, every day is to increase our two compounds (bench and front squat for push, Weighted chins and Deadlifts for Pull) and that the rest is to help accomplish that goal and to help you look good naked. The deadlift assistance, only one exercise is performed, it's just that you pick whichever body part appears to be the "weak" point. If it seems like none of it is particularly bad, and it's just a strength problem, speed pulls/power cleans are used. Abs work and HIIT cardio (if desired/appropriate) are done on the off day, but I discourage doing so until at least 2 months in. We usually toss an extra exercise of arms work in on friday/saturday workouts, because I know they're going out that night and everybody likes to feel like they've got a pump lol. I also do a little bit of "active recovery" on the off days, encouraging 50 pushups (spread out in sets of ~10) and 50 air squats (same) on the day before push (day after pull) and 50 inverted rows/50 box jumps with a low (~21 inch) box before pull day. Just enough to get the blood moving.
There are often specifics that I change - if someone really really really hates Chins, which happens all the time especially with overweight guys, I might have them do an underhanded row to try to simulate the action. If someone wants to build traps, or is having problems with their shoulder posture I've found high rep shrugs invaluable. If someone is more interested in being strong than big, we'll change the rep ranges and number of sets, we'll select different exercises (rows instead of chins usually, OHP or dips over incline, etc.) and have them performed in a different order. Some more advanced things include adding a failure set (ala greyskull LP - weight should be heavy enough to fail before 8 reps) changing the rest times, occasionally throwing in another exercise on one body part (Tbar rows and shrugs are both awesome) and more.
IF anyone wants to read through that wall of text, feel free. If anyone is a beginner and wants to try it out as a routine, PM me. This is a compromise on volume between "intro" BB splits and the full body training of SS/SL but it compensates with more rest time than SS/SL, and still not being too much to the point where it would be necessary to make it a 3-day bro split. This is just a general "on the first day you ever come to the gym with me, do this, then we'll personalize it" template, but since I had it I felt like posting it.
phyre, for what my opinion's worth, i think that's a great program for most guys. most people start working out to look better and build a better physique, so it suits them better to incorporate a more BB-type routine. and it also has squats and deadlifts, which of course are essential to build a solid foundation of strength and prevent injury and imbalances. i also thought that incorporating a number of assistance exercises is good for the average dude. i know that i sometimes got bored with doing only squat/DL/bench/press/pullups, so switching it up sometimes is a great incentive to go back to the gym. going to the gym really should be an enjoyable thing, and of course, for those who can do SS/SL for 6 months without any change to increase their lifts, then excellent. but SS/SL are not for everyone.
Phyre, I'm sure you've posted this somewhere but what do you do now if you're still skipping squats/deadlifts due to hip/back. I'm interested... progress is slow on the rehab.
On April 25 2013 21:56 mordek wrote: Phyre, I'm sure you've posted this somewhere but what do you do now if you're still skipping squats/deadlifts due to hip/back. I'm interested... progress is slow on the rehab.
variety of stretches to help the rehab come along. Still doing these.
Back extensions - with a particular focus on actually contracting the spinal erectors. There's a video by glenn pendlay I can find from youtube if you want, but the general premise is that most people only hinge at the hip when they do these, and I wanted to flex/extend through my lower back. Started these with 3x10, worked up to 3x20 with a 2 second pause at the top, then started 3x10 weighted (and worked up to 20 before increasing weight)
Weighted oblique & Ab work - mostly side bends and weighted decline situps. 3x10.
Prone Single-Leg hamstring curls. (on a machine) My hip almost always popped and felt way better after doing these, so I figured why the hell not? 3x8-12.
GHR - because hamstring curls are silly, and I wanted to do a real exercise. Progressed from those to these.
Bulgarian Split Squat (weighted) (no idea why these are named the way they are.) 3x8-ish. Great glute exercise, decent quad exercise.
Leg extensions/single-leg leg presses because I had to do some quad work... never could get excited about these though, always sorta felt like going through the motions. All of the above had a "rehab" type focus to them, these were just kinda "well I can do them, so I might as well".
I've just recently started adding weight to front squats and I'm doing those regularly. I expect to add RDLs in to my routine in the next week or so. Final progression will obviously be going back to the high bar back squat, and doing deadlifts/power cleans/clean pulls.
When following the starting strength program for an overweight male, should you also be consuming a gallon of milk a day? It is recommended that "skinny" kids drink this amount, but it never really adresses nutrition information for overweight people, it just says that they will experience faster muscle gains that skinny people
i'm not 100% sure on this, but i'd like to take a stab at answering your question. anyone, feel free to correct or add to what i'm about to say.
for someone with a high bodyfat percentage, i would say no to gallon of milk a day, if your goal is to both lose fat and gain muscle.
SS recommends gomad to skinny people because it's easy to drink a lot of milk, and thus get a lot of calories and proteins for them to gain weight and muscle. for someone with a high bodyfat percentage, getting your proteins from something with fewer calories, like tuna, is probably a better idea. you don't need calorie-dense foods because you want to lose fat. but you also want the protein needed to gain muscle. eat lean meats instead: fish, chicken, beef, turkey, etc
Yeah, gomad is for the benefit of a lot of calories in a good form without feeling like a lot of calories. You could only do the milk but I imagine that would leave you feeling very hungry Diet should just be whole/real foods, avoid grains and sugar, and try to hit a slight caloric deficit.
On May 08 2013 09:15 Arisen wrote: When following the starting strength program for an overweight male, should you also be consuming a gallon of milk a day? It is recommended that "skinny" kids drink this amount, but it never really adresses nutrition information for overweight people, it just says that they will experience faster muscle gains that skinny people
No, but you should aim to get in a large amount of protein to facilitate muscle growth while you lose weight.
Get rid of all of the processed food and carbohydrates from your diet as well
This is probably a question just eliciting personal choice without any real hard boundaries, but are there any opinions on what a reasonable amount of weight gain is? If someone has a quote-unquote "baseline" weight of 150 lbs (68kg), it seems that gaining 30 lbs (13.6kg) of muscle, an increase of 20%, might not be completely desirable, especially if you want to stay active with a sport like basketball. Maybe the little guys can take on these weight gains better than the big guys, but has any thought gone into these considerations?
On May 26 2013 11:38 Jerubaal wrote: This is probably a question just eliciting personal choice without any real hard boundaries, but are there any opinions on what a reasonable amount of weight gain is? If someone has a quote-unquote "baseline" weight of 150 lbs (68kg), it seems that gaining 30 lbs (13.6kg) of muscle, an increase of 20%, might not be completely desirable, especially if you want to stay active with a sport like basketball. Maybe the little guys can take on these weight gains better than the big guys, but has any thought gone into these considerations?
It's mostly personal choice.
A lot of people say "don't go over 15% bf at any given time" because after that, anecdotal experience says that it just gets easier and easier to get fat and never rain it back in. Most people freak out the first time they lose their abs, so going just up to the point you don't have them any more is a great cue/motivator to reign your diet back in. Then you cut the fat, and start all over trying to bulk up again.
There's no reason not to gain 30 lbs over a long period of time though, no matter what you weighed to begin with. Just base it all on bf% and go slowly, in cycles.
I can't resist since there were two other homophones used, but I believe "rein" is the correct word :D You can always gain ten pounds and see how you look, if aesthetics is all you're worried about.
On May 26 2013 12:30 mordek wrote: I can't resist since there were two other homophones used, but I believe "rein" is the correct word :D You can always gain ten pounds and see how you look, if aesthetics is all you're worried about.
it's reign I think. I'm posting from my phone and editing is totally not worth it.
I wouldn't worry about it Like I said I couldn't resist, normally wouldn't have said anything.
Related. I spent a good amount of time re-thinking an exercise routine since I need more structure to stick with it and get my goals, hopefully I'll post something this weekend for feedback.
I'm going to start playing Handball and i was wondering, since it's offseason now I want to prepare for the start of the season.
I kinda need strength AND endurance but how do i 'correctly' train both?
People around me gave a few different examples like: - go to the gym, do your strength training and after the training run for X minutes on a treadmil. - run in the morning and gym in the evening, with a rest day in between. - ...
Myself, i was thinking more in the line of: 1 day gym, 1 day running, 1 day gym, 1 day running, 1 day gym, 1 day running, rest. (with a 3 day split, leggs on saturday, so i have 2 days rest before i 'need' them again)
your weekly routine sounds fine. but what i would recommend for training both strength and endurance at the gym would be the following: - faster tempo for each movement (do each exercise movement quickly. explode into it.) - more weight (enough weight, but not so much that you cant finish your sets and be able to blast through each movement) - lower rep ranges per set (3 to 5 reps in each set) - higher numbers of sets (7 to 10 sets) - little rest in between sets and exercises (only around 30 to 45 seconds in between sets)
On May 26 2013 11:38 Jerubaal wrote: This is probably a question just eliciting personal choice without any real hard boundaries, but are there any opinions on what a reasonable amount of weight gain is? If someone has a quote-unquote "baseline" weight of 150 lbs (68kg), it seems that gaining 30 lbs (13.6kg) of muscle, an increase of 20%, might not be completely desirable, especially if you want to stay active with a sport like basketball. Maybe the little guys can take on these weight gains better than the big guys, but has any thought gone into these considerations?
Depends on your height. If you're super lightweight at 6'5" 150 then adding 30 lbs of muscle would only help you...
If you're 5'0" then adding 30 lbs of muscle would make you the most ripped 5'0" on the face of the earth, but it probably wouldn't help you with basketball much.
Keep in mind most of the NBA players are at least 6'0" or more and 220+ lbs. So yes, adding a substantial amount of muscle will likely only help and almost NEVER hurt.
On May 27 2013 17:25 Juice! wrote: I'm going to start playing Handball and i was wondering, since it's offseason now I want to prepare for the start of the season.
I kinda need strength AND endurance but how do i 'correctly' train both?
People around me gave a few different examples like: - go to the gym, do your strength training and after the training run for X minutes on a treadmil. - run in the morning and gym in the evening, with a rest day in between. - ...
Myself, i was thinking more in the line of: 1 day gym, 1 day running, 1 day gym, 1 day running, 1 day gym, 1 day running, rest. (with a 3 day split, leggs on saturday, so i have 2 days rest before i 'need' them again)
But i'ld love to hear your view on this matter!
In the off season you should focus mostly on strength gain.
About a month or two before the season starts that's when you should start ramping up sessions of work with handball and running and just aim to maintain strength.
So basically, run about 2x a week to maintain your aerobic base (longer running at around lac threshold) or so... and train strength 3-4x a week.
If you're already pretty fit you should be able to handle something like:
Mon: Strength Tu: Run W: Strength Th: Rest F: Strength Sat: STrength + Run Sun: Rest
Focus mostly in the 5-8 rep range if you want to gain strength and muscle mass.... mostly in about 3-6 if just adding strength with no muscle gain. Focus diet towards these accordingly
I still don't like the negative tone towards cardio...
Cardio is pretty damn good for your body. Even some bodybuilders say, if you only have 20-30 minutes to work out, do cardio.
And the example of someone "eliminating cardio" was the example of someone changing his diet 100% AND eliminating cardio. Cardio does help losing weight more than you say/possibly know, that is because of the "afterburner effect" (I have no idea what the medical term might be) But 20 minutes of cardio actually "burn more calories" than you burn due to those 20 minutes, because the metabolic system will be working harder for a certain amount of time, once you get up to 40 or 50 minutes of cardio you get more out of the "afterburner" than during the actual cardio itself.
Yes, diet is more important in weight loss and working on strength/muscle mass can be more effective. Also, if you just want to look better, packing on some bigger muscles under your fat will improve your physique very very fast.
HOWEVER cardio is still important especially to improve your health. If you live on the fifth floor and take an elevator to get down on your way to the gym you are exactly the kind of person I despise. And a lot of people do that, because the neglect cardio.
Just wanted to say that I think your points are valid but it would help A LOT to also write how and why cardio still is important for one's body. This is HEALTH and Fitness, is it not?
the term "cardio" gets thrown around a lot. My personal experience is that training high intensity body-weight strength with some sprinting work thrown in has given me a very well rounded athleticism, with a great ability for what I believe you call "cardio" if I chose to do it. I used to do a lot of steady state cardio on a treadmill - it never helped me get fitter. my conclusions were that high intensity strength workouts + sprinting helped my ability to do steady state cardio if i ever chose to, but steady state cardio did not help my fitness in other aspects.
I think rEalGuapo is very correct. Health and fitness are two different things and sometimes they can work against each other.
It has been difficult do study into how much exercise and what type of exercise is best for the human body. But if you read the studies there is starting to appear a convergence. Our bodies evolved, as did all animals, with 'exercise' build-in to our bodies. Our bodies expect to have to preform a certain amount of 'work'. Sitting behind a desk, computer or tv for most of the day is not what evolution molded our bodies to do.
Studies show that people who cycle to work live significantly longer. This is a statistical observation. In the mean time we know how the mechanism works. Better heart and lungs and less overweight, etc.
This exercise at very low intensity, honestly it is recovery intensity at like 60% of max heart rate, is very important for our human bodies (and for many pets as well). And in fact it would be better that we do a whole lot of it. And yes, it doesn't improve our performance in sports much. So most people consider it to be a waste of time.
Our bodies also require some exercise of more intensity. Let's call this aerobic intensity. Say 70 to 80% of max hr. Debate is up about how much is too much. There are some studies that show that doing more of this than 3x a week 30 minutes can be harmful. Especially if it is in the upper range intensity-wise. But this research is still not widely accepted, partially because many people just have problems accepting our bodies don't benefit from doing intense effort marathons and triathlons and that even 10k races might be overdoing it. The details about this are that heart muscle gets damaged and the question is if the recovery from this, which it does, helps long-term health and age expectancy or not.
Third is anaerobic cardio. This is the stuff that can get you overtrained really easily. (which is different from weight lifting where overtraining is quite hard). Many beginners actually start doing cardio mostly in this range. Their aerobic engine is not very big or they are overweight and thus they exercise with high intensity. Surely some anaerobic activity is something the human body 'likes' to deal with. A 100m sprint or a football match with short bursts of intensity and then recovery. But the question here again is how much is too much and how little is too little. Obviously more is not always better. When running a 5k race most people will be running anaerobically for most of it. And that's often a 20 minute effort.
The big problem here seems to be people with small aerobic engines always training like they race. Call them weekend warriors, or people who buy into the 'HIIT is good for beginners' group. Training anaerobically trains the anaerobic system. It makes you deal better with having lactate build up in your body. But improvements to the anaerobic system come at the cost of less improvements to the aerobic system.
Almost all professional endurance athletes train at low intensity 'steady state cardio' for the most part. This has actually been the old paradigm. You see it a lot in running where runners are trained by doing more and more miles. Same in cycling where long slow rides are considered to be the foundation of a training plan.
This is because in endurance your aerobic engine determines most of your performance. Improving your mitochondria, getting more capillaries, conditioning the body to burn fat as efficiently as possible, they are key. But all this is as slow if not slower than 'building muscle'. Beginners seem to have the 'no pain no gain'-mentality and they see improvements by training at high intensity. Maybe they see increase in performance because they adjust mentally and manage to push their bodies more.
In running you always see people think there is a need for speedwork, that doing sprints improves their 5k time, that they need to do strides or that they need to run at a certain pace to train speed into their mind. But in the end a 5k performance all comes down on the oxygen management of the body and speedwork is unimportant.
Interval training and intense workouts surely have their place in certain training programs. For a professional dealing with lactate build-up is an important factor in winning races. But for beginners and amateurs they are overrated in their ability to improve endurance.
As for losing weight, the calories you burn doing a long bike ride can never come close to the cardio burned by the max no. of sprints you can do. Running fast and sprints are a big risk factor for getting injured. And nothing harms your health and fitness more than being injured. Sprints are pretty cool as they are full body strength workouts for your muscles. But cardio-wise, they don't do much.
Someone like Usain Bolt will almost never do sprints as training. What he will do is squats etc for muscle strength, low intensity cardio for more endurance (at the end of the 100m every sprinter will be slowing down because of fatigue) and technique drills for better running form. Same is true for someone like Michael Phelps. Same is true for almost every running distance. If you run 400m, you never run 400m in training. You run either less or more. If you run 1k you never run 1k in training, either less or more. If you run 5k, same.
Also, anecdotal 'evidence' from people's experiences with some cardio training plan are fine and all, but they don't mean anything. If someone tells me 'steady state cardio never helped me' then that doesn't mean anything to me because unless he measured it he can't know it. Both the training plan he actually did and the effect it had on his body are two unknowns unless they are carefully measured.
Another factor, I see some people do 'I did treadmill running a lot'. But isn't that extremely boring? And you live in Norway. It's summer right now. I'd be touring around every third day on my bike if I could. Exploring, enjoying the weather, the scenery and the nature. Do you know every nice place to go to within 50 km of your place? How many places are there around your city&town where you have never been? If it isn't fun to do 'exercise' how are you going to last? Maybe there's a reason why most people are unhealthy and out of shape.
Having fun and being consistent are more important then the theoretically most perfect way to improve performance.
On June 08 2013 11:34 Jerubaal wrote: Give me a reason why I should do steady state cardio over sprinting or other aerobic calisthenicy things.
So to be short: 1) Less risk of injury 2) Improves different systems of your body which are more important for everyday fitness and health 3) Able to absorb more volume 4) Able to burn more calories 5) Builds your aerobic engine faster, for better performance 6) Less risk of overtraining/burnout 7) It's great for recovery from training or injury (better blood flow to damaged tissues). 8) During everyday activity you never feel winded, feel like you have a big overhead of oxygen 9) You feel great afterways rather than exhausted (assuming HIIT). 10) It's a lifestyle, not an exercise regime.
Hi!!! First of all, Komei, I like your post a lot and you are correct. It's summer now, nice weather and everything. Go out and enjoy the nature, running is good exercise.
But I have a problem right now, I recently bought new shoes to prevent pronating. I have been trying it out now 2 days and I still get some pain in my legs while I run, is it because of the shoes and that I am now using muscles I didn't use before with the old shoes? I am also little bit overweight but I will go hardcore now, planning to jog every single day and last week I ran 4 times.
Well, there is a running thread I see. But running is very tricky. Good running form you need to develop as a child and maintain as an adult. If you don't and suddenly go running you may just have a very problematic gait.
Also, there is a lot of confusion and misunderstanding about running and no one yet has all the answers. Pronation is such a thing. By definition, one has to pronate. It is over-pronation that has been considered bad. But even that is up for debate. And for shoes preventing over-pronation, there has never been any evidence to show that shoes can actually do such a thing.
If you are a bit overweight, already have pain, have shoes that attempt to correct your gait and you want to go hardcore running, that is a problem. Could be a recipe for disaster.
Even if you are completely pain-free, even if you used to run a lot as a child and teenager injury-free, going into a hardcore running problem is not advisable. Anyone, anyone has to slowly build up the distance. Ligaments and tendons have to toughen up and that is a slow process. You run to toughen up your tissues, not to improve fitness. Getting in shape through running doesn't work for many people. Maybe we are all born to run, but if it is not developed early in life, it may be impossible to become a 'runner'.
Based on what you say, I would recommend cycling for building cardio. It also helps with weight loss but only with a proper diet. There are other types of low-injury rate forms of cardio. The elliptical is really good but it's mind-numbing to me. Swimming is of course great.
Once weight is lost you can try to go for a run. But take babysteps and try to only run pain-free. In case of pain, stop.
I normally recommend neutral shoes to anyone, over-pronating or not. I personally don't believe in the stuff shoe manufactures made up. Also, adjusting your gait all on your own usually means you get even more problems. You get injured trying to make yourself run with a more proper running form.
On June 11 2013 06:03 Vitruvian wrote: My [citation needed] key broke.
This isn't a research paper. To which can't you find the studies? Rather than attempt to ridicule, try to have a more constructive and less negative attitude? Most people that follow the research already so it is obviously a waste of time to act like this is indeed a scholarly article.
On June 11 2013 06:03 Vitruvian wrote: My [citation needed] key broke.
This isn't a research paper. To which can't you find the studies? Rather than attempt to ridicule, try to have a more constructive and less negative attitude? Most people that follow the research already so it is obviously a waste of time to act like this is indeed a scholarly article.
Also, no one post references on casual forums.
Also, bad meme.
"Critical" and "Constructive" are not antonyms. Why make unsupported assertions if you don't have the emotional fortitude to handle the inevitable dissent?
"No one post references on casual forums" is one such unsupported (and wildly inaccurate) assertion. Let me list more below:
"Health and fitness are two different things and sometimes they can work against each other."
"It has been difficult do study into how much exercise and what type of exercise is best for the human body."
"Studies show that people who cycle to work live significantly longer. This is a statistical observation." <-- This one is hilariously ironic
"There are some studies that show that doing more of this than 3x a week 30 minutes can be harmful."
"Someone like Usain Bolt will almost never do sprints as training. What he will do is squats etc for muscle strength, low intensity cardio for more endurance (at the end of the 100m every sprinter will be slowing down because of fatigue) and technique drills for better running form."
It is 'nice' that my posts were 'good enough' to be 'hilarious', but that was sadly not my intention. Also, copy&pasting my text that had this unintentional effect seems quite useless. Not sure what you hope to achieve with that since I can hardly respond to a copy&paste of my own text.
So what do you have to contribute again? It's up to you to show that you are constructive.
On June 11 2013 11:04 Komei wrote: It is 'nice' that my posts were 'good enough' to be 'hilarious', but that was sadly not my intention. Also, copy&pasting my text that had this unintentional effect seems quite useless. Not sure what you hope to achieve with that since I can hardly respond to a copy&paste of my own text.
So what do you have to contribute again? It's up to you to show that you are constructive.
You're seriously challenging my assumption that people actually read posts before responding to them. Or maybe you did read it, and simply chose to ignore the part where I said "unsupported assertion." Twice.
If you are so confident in your claims that you don't feel the need to support them with any evidence, your response to someone calling your bullshit should be a simple matter of providing that evidence, not whining about "constructive" and "negative."
Here, I'll play along. I will be constructive, Komei style.
1.) Sprinting and other high-intensity cardio burns exactly 8.475x more calories than steady state per unit of effort invested. 2.) Studies show that Olympic weightlifting lowers your risk of contracting syphilis. 3.) Someone like Ilya Ilin will almost never do full snatches or clean & jerks as training. What he will do is leg extensions for the ladies, hammer curls for the bros, and bosu ball pushups for his Gold's Gym personal trainer. 4.) Same is true for Liao Hui.
[Mine and Komei's 2nd responses accidentally got derailed into TL Health and Fitness Initiative]
It isn't a pyramid, though. it's many different systems working together. Every exercise recruits different systems. Neurological. Muscular. Cardiovascular. Respiratory. Squats- almost purely muscular. Power cleans- muscular and neurological. Mountain climbers- Muscular, Cardio, Respi. 5k- Cardio and Respi.
I read a bit about this Lydiard and you have it backwards. He got marathoners to sprint. The problem was progressive overloading. It's hard to get better at a marathon because in order to increase the load, you have to either increase volume or intensity. Volume is pointless for a marathoner, so they increased intensity. Now let's take this back to our health: Which exercise would you pick to overload your body and force it to be stronger- the exercise that has you working at 80% or the one at 60%?
Again, really trying hard to not hate on running, but my problem is when people seemingly settle on running. I want people to have specific goals (they don't have to be precise to be specific, looking better naked is a goal) and then choose at least something tailored to that goal.
Again, what is jogging for 30+ mins good for? Losing weight? We directly contradict each other here and I won't be able to convince you on me lonesome, but everything I have heard and seen is that the best way to lose weight is to move fast. Call it basketball, call it ultimate frisbee, call it HIIT, I don't care. You don't burn as many calories there as jogging, it's true, but the recovery and metabolic impact of it will burn much more fat over the course of the day. Remember that old adage, you don't build muscle in the gym, you build muscle the 23 hours you aren't in the gym. No, I wouldn't tell an overweight person to do sprints, either. I would tell them to play a sport for fun, one that gets them running around. That sounds like something that is a)more enjoyable b) less stressful on their joints than jogging for 30 mins.
Is it better for body recomposition? Hell no. I was making a joke at my 17 yo self for looking like a marshmallow toothpick. I should carry a picture of a marathoner to show to girls on the treadmill.
Is it better for sports or emergencies, or, as you say every day shit? This goes back to the overloading. If I am strong, then activities that are at a low % of my maximum capacity are trivial. Sure, lifting that 1kg dumb bell 500 times might make be decent at lifting it, but if I lift the 50kg dumb bell I will give no shits about the 1kg one.
(I see there are several posts ahead of this response, I hope this isn't out of date now. EDIT: Nope, ignore the troll.)
You just read up a bit on Lydiard as I mention him as an example and you feel you incorrectly have to tell me I have it backwards?
As for the remainder of your post, I can't really understand. If you want to burn as many calories as possible you do it by burning a lot of them. That and eating less is how you lose weight. But you don't believe that became you have heard others say the opposite?
And in the mean time you try to convince me you want to 'look good naked' and you think how a marathon runner looks doesn't impress girls? Really, is this a joke or am I talking to a kid?
(Fudge, I just realized that I posted in the TL Health and Fitness Initiative thread what should have gone here and Komei followed me by some chance. If a mod could remove those posts and put them here if that's possible, that'd be great. )
The name Lydiard is new to me but base building and periodization are not. By reading your initial claims, though, I would guess that the 'Lydiard way' is to run steady state cardio no matter what your sport is. Lydiard had his runners base build and periodize by running shorter then longer distances because he was trying to get them to be good at running. That is a totally different claim than saying that a 5k is somehow a base building exercise for a fast twitch movement.
This is a factual matter we are arguing about, but you can only exercise so much time a day. When you jog, as soon as you stop running, you stop burning calories. Additionally, your body can be quite stubborn if it notices that you are suddenly at a caloric deficit and will try to hang onto fat. Lifting is always going to be numero uno when it comes to burning fat and jumpstarting your metabolism, but HIIT type activities (like running up a hill) are still pretty good and much better than steady state cardio. Look, here's a citation: Impact of exercise intensity on body fatness and skeletal muscle Metabolism. 1994 Jul;43(7):814-8 (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8028502)
As for 'looking good naked', this forum has a broad appeal and some people have lofty goals while others have only vague ideas about what they want to accomplish. I think it's the guy or girl who comes in with a very general goal who needs the most guidance and shouldn't settle for a program that's not tailored for them.
On June 08 2013 11:34 Jerubaal wrote: Give me a reason why I should do steady state cardio over sprinting or other aerobic calisthenicy things.
My first response is why would it be one or the other, and not both?
Though of course this depends alot of one's goals.For general health some level of cardiovascular fitness is generally considered a good thing. This doesn't mean you have to bike for 3 hours a day or something, but doing some aerobic activity 2-3x a week for 20 or 30 minutes isn't likely to hurt anything and will keep you reasonably fit.
Going back to initial question, if you were say an NFL football player or a sprinter I would say their is no real reason to do any steady state training. If you are a soccer player...different story. What kind of training you do should be based on what you are trying to achieve and/or train for.
I used to do a lot of steady state cardio on a treadmill - it never helped me get fitter.
Can't say I've ever heard of someone doing a decent bit of running and then not being able to run faster over distance.
Getting in shape through running doesn't work for many people. Maybe we are all born to run, but if it is not developed early in life, it may be impossible to become a 'runner'.
I don't believe this it all. I've yet to see someone, without a physical ailement, that couldn't develop into a decent runner. If you are talking elite level, then no of course not, but if you are talking being a decent local runner (say 19-20 min 5ks for a male) then yes, almost anyone can get there.
Someone like Usain Bolt will almost never do sprints as training. What he will do is squats etc for muscle strength, low intensity cardio for more endurance (at the end of the 100m every sprinter will be slowing down because of fatigue) and technique drills for better running form.
Both of the bolded things are completely false. Bolt does ZERO aerobic work. It's completely irrelevant to what a sprinter does. Slowing down at the end of a 100m has nothing to do with aerobic endurance (slowing at 400m does have a slight aerobic component) and more to do with exhausting the limits of the creatine phosphate system and speed endurance.
Bolt also sprints regularly in training, though it would be correct to say he does not do any all out 100m sprints. There is plenty of short work 30m-60m at high speeds, block work, and overdistance sprinting (generally 200-350m).
Now you contradict yourself:
But in the end a 5k performance all comes down on the oxygen management of the body and speedwork is unimportant.
Interval training and intense workouts surely have their place in certain training programs. For a professional dealing with lactate build-up is an important factor in winning races.
If 5k performance all comes down to oxygen management, why would "pros" care about speework at all and why would lactate build-up matter?
Moreover, you ignore arguably one of the biggest reason for training at faster than AnT, and this is running economy. The more you run at a pace, the more efficient you get at running that pace. It's not that you totally change your form, but the body naturally adapts over time and becomes more efficient at a given pace, utilizing less oxygen to run the given pace.
Beyond even this, when you train relatively aerobically at faster paces you recruit more muscle fiber, and this increases the aerobic qualities of the fiber over time.
When running a 5k race most people will be running anaerobically for most of it.
This again depends on what you mean. If you mean their is a small anaerobic component or that lactate is above 2-4 mmol in the race, then sure. However, the anaerobic component provides only a small portion of the energy needed for a 5k (general estimates I see are around 90% aerobic, 10% anaerobic).
Again, what is jogging for 30+ mins good for?
Running faster, improving strength of ligaments and tendons, increasing mitochondrial density, stimulation of LV hypertrophy, increased lung elasticity, etc.
less stressful on their joints than jogging for 30 mins.
Is it better for body recomposition? Hell no. I was making a joke at my 17 yo self for looking like a marshmallow toothpick. I should carry a picture of a marathoner to show to girls on the treadmill.
Agree on the first part totally. If your goal is look better, in the classical sense, then a bunch of running is NOT the way to go (though a little endurance exercise is good imo). Your second/third line are irritating. You'll only look that way if you don't do anything else besides running. Marathoners look like they do not because they run a ton, but because it's necessary morphology for the given event. It's VERY rare to see great marathoners that weigh more than 2lbs/inch, and many are a little below that.
Great thread really informative. In school I had a weight training class to lift weights but now that I am out all I have is a little bench press. Right now I am lifting 75lbs on bench and 33lbs for dumbell bench. I can do 75lbs 35x if I want to and 33lbs about 15 times. Is this a good way of using my equipment or should I be doing it diferently. I can only put 105 maximum on the bar which is useless because my max is 185.
On July 08 2013 09:42 rolando wrote: Great thread really informative. In school I had a weight training class to lift weights but now that I am out all I have is a little bench press. Right now I am lifting 75lbs on bench and 33lbs for dumbell bench. I can do 75lbs 35x if I want to and 33lbs about 15 times. Is this a good way of using my equipment or should I be doing it diferently. I can only put 105 maximum on the bar which is useless because my max is 185.
those rep ranges are fine if you want to build endurance.
@L_Master: I've been thinking for a few days about how to respond or even if to respond, but there's one specific point I didn't treat on in my earlier posts so I'll briefly touch on that without going into some explanation addressing every possible angle.
The basic mistake, I believe, you have made is confusing the results of the exercise with the goals of the exercise. All of those things you listed, I have no doubt, will result from steady state cardio. My question is, to what end? I would contend that almost all of the things you have listed are either equally well served by other exercises which provide greater benefits or are specific adaptations to running and have no application outside of it. You have essentially repeated in so many words that running makes you good at running. I'd be glad to elucidate on a point by point basis, but I'd like to hear your comments first. My insistence might seem strange, but I don't think this is as small a problem as a disagreement on facts. I think people, for several reasons, have latched on to steady state cardio and are stubbornly clinging to it despite any attempts to steer them to goal oriented programs.
All of those things you listed, I have no doubt, will result from steady state cardio. My question is, to what end?
To run faster?
I think people, for several reasons, have latched on to steady state cardio and are stubbornly clinging to it despite any attempts to steer them to goal oriented programs.
I am not one of those people. I was trying to be clear with quotes like:
What kind of training you do should be based on what you are trying to achieve and/or train for.
and
Agree on the first part totally. If your goal is look better, in the classical sense, then a bunch of running is NOT the way to go
but that kind of stuff can get lost in the shuffle of a long winded post. To be clear, if your goal with fitness isn't to become a good or better runner( or other aerobic sport)...then lots, or even a moderate amount of running, (cardio) is FAR from necessary, and arguably not even a good tactic.
In my opinion, one ought always to look to his goals to decide upon a good workout regimen. If your goal is to look better, in a classical sense, then strength training, with a very minimal amount of aerobic exercise is good. If your goal is to generally be in better shape, I would say relatively the same as the look better option, with perhaps a marginally greater amount of aerobic training (by this I mean like 20-30 minutes 3-4 times a week of some sort of aerobic work). If your goal is to lift a ton of weight around...then you probably don't need any aerobic work at all (though I have little expertise in training for powerlifting, but I can't directly see how aerobic training would provide any benefit for that).
I suspect we agree here, but I would be interested to hear you expound on this:
I would contend that almost all of the things you have listed are either equally well served by other exercises which provide greater benefits or are specific adaptations to running and have no application outside of it
Since most of my post was running specific, I'm not sure what of those things could better be served by other exercises or why they would provide greater benefits (keeping in mind I'm speaking from the context of becoming a better runner).
In general, powerlifters will do some steady-state stuff like sled pulls or just brisk walking, but the intensity is kept low because the priority is to be recovered enough for the next lifting session. Speed work with the barbell is also a common conditioning tools that PL guys will use.
Strongmen will generally just practice the different events for their conditioning, but the events are so brutally hard that it's enough anyway. I've heard lots of strongmen and PLs both say that generally the strongmen guys are the all-around stronger of the two, since PLs are so specialized.
So yeah, even if your goal is just to move a ton of weight, you still should probably do some cardio.
I would think that you would need to include some cardio even if your goal is not directly related to some health benefit or to having a thinner body. I would think it would take some real endurance to get into heavy lifting. I might be wrong though as I am a woman and have not done mega lifting. I would think Cardio would help build up endurance which in the end would be beneficial.
On July 11 2013 09:19 kmpisces wrote: I would think that you would need to include some cardio even if your goal is not directly related to some health benefit or to having a thinner body. I would think it would take some real endurance to get into heavy lifting. I might be wrong though as I am a woman and have not done mega lifting. I would think Cardio would help build up endurance which in the end would be beneficial.
On July 11 2013 09:19 kmpisces wrote: I would think that you would need to include some cardio even if your goal is not directly related to some health benefit or to having a thinner body. I would think it would take some real endurance to get into heavy lifting. I might be wrong though as I am a woman and have not done mega lifting. I would think Cardio would help build up endurance which in the end would be beneficial.
This is not correct.
Yea, I was going to say I didn't think it would hold true for lifting either. It sounds good on the surface, but physiologically the kind of "endurance" you build for lifting heavy weight is not the same as aerobic endurance and having more of one does not enhance the capacity of the other. It's the same reason why a 100m/200m sprinter doesn't do any "cardio" either...they need endurance, as a good part of deciding the race is who slows down least...but it isn't aerobic endurance.
On July 11 2013 09:19 kmpisces wrote: I would think that you would need to include some cardio even if your goal is not directly related to some health benefit or to having a thinner body. I would think it would take some real endurance to get into heavy lifting. I might be wrong though as I am a woman and have not done mega lifting. I would think Cardio would help build up endurance which in the end would be beneficial.
This is not correct.
Yea, I was going to say I didn't think it would hold true for lifting either. It sounds good on the surface, but physiologically the kind of "endurance" you build for lifting heavy weight is not the same as aerobic endurance and having more of one does not enhance the capacity of the other. It's the same reason why a 100m/200m sprinter doesn't do any "cardio" either...they need endurance, as a good part of deciding the race is who slows down least...but it isn't aerobic endurance.
Depends on what one sees as "cardio" for me cardio is everything that is involving big muscles to work over 10 or more minutes constantly, but not necessarily at the same level.
Most all powerlifters do some sort of sprinting or jogging to keep their cardiovascular system up with the requirements of lifting those heavy weights. (This goes for training, a meet will only require you to lift very few reps over a long preiod of time)
I for one for example really have trouble while deadlifting for 4 or more reps. Last time I wanted to go for a x5 PR I noticed how my vision faded and I was really close to throwing up. Now I will incorporate sprinting (as in sprint for 2-3 seconds, walk, sprint, walk) and some jogging into my training.
Anyway, everyone's training should depend on one's goals. If you are tired of being exhausted after taking the stairs instead of the elevator, "cardio" will be perfect. After jogging 3x a week for a few months I started to see the difference between me and my friends on stairs/bike/whatever. Sadly since then I stopped and started smoking again. t.t
Short: If you want to have better endurance in what-so-ever-way, do cardio but choose the right one! Also, if you want to have a healthy heart, doing heavy singles and no cardio will not suffice.
This is a great thread because I have been lost with what to do with my exercise routine. I have goals of building endurance and strength (preparing for Army entry) and would like to get a flat stomach but it appears I have been focusing too much on cardio :S
From what I understand strength training is more effective in losing weight than cardio yeah? But as I want to build endurance for running as well I should still be doing cardio exercise as well as strength training but what kind is best and how often is where i'm lost. I currently do 1 hour of running at fairly slow pace (9-10km) followed by 100 situps and because I haven't been doing strength training I also do push ups in what I believe is called pyramid workout. (max, half, half again, max) I would do that one day then next day I would do 2.4km run as fast as I could which I got to 8:40 on treadmill but had to take a few short rests so its not a legit 8:40 maybe closer to 9:20. Then I would follow with weight training. Then rest day and repeat the next day.
I am thinking this is not a good way to do it :S Is it better to focus on asap 2.4km or should it be 5km or doing 50-60 minute 10k better?
And for weights can someone let me know if my routine is missing anything or i'm doing something wrong: + Show Spoiler +
Bench press Incline bench pecs/fly? lat pull down dumbell pull (aiming for similar motion as rowing not sure how to describe) triceps squats with bar shoulder press bicep curls abs circuit (situps, leg lifts, crunches, 2 others i have no idea what they are called)
And how should I split my workout given I need both strength and endurance.
I think biggest issue I am facing for gaining muscles and flat stomach though is diet - I live with parents who don't let me chose my food and despite my attempts to tell them otherwise still say its organic so its healthy, end of story. So any kind of low carb high protein or controlled diet is out of the question but looking good is not my core concern as long as I can develop a good exercise routine when I get the chance to control my diet I can do that then.
Thanks for your help - I have tried searching internet but so much information seems suspect or only half true and I'm not sure what info is good to follow so I just made it up figuring that any exercise regime is better than none
if you're training to prepare for the army, i'd suggest you:
- use functional, compound movements in your routine. squats, deadlifts, dips, pullups. don't do isolation movements that target only 1 or 2 specific muscles, like triceps, bipeps, quads. pushups, situps, and pullups would also be good, since you may be required to do a lot of those in the army.
- incorporate plyometrics (box jumps, clapping pushups, depth jumps, other explosive movements) and sprints
- design a program using the above that burns you out with a lot of volume (similar to p90x or insanity), rather than a program that is designed to make you lift heavier. when you're in the army, you're gonna be doing a ton of volume, not doing 3x5 bench, so training under a parameter like 3x5 is not going to benefit as much.
also, you're right about the diet - if you don't eat well, you won't see improvement. are you around 17 to 19 years? maybe your parents will let you cook yourself an additional meal (something with a lot of meat and vegetables)?
For running you should head over to the running thread for advice. The chaps over there give amazing advice that fit your needs depending on where you're standing and what you're aiming for. Generally I think that they'll be telling you to gradually increase your mileage based on how comfortable you are. But it looks like you're already running a pretty decent amount, if you do this daily then you'll be thinking about increasing the mileage to 11 - 12 km a day with some easy days to rest, possibly more but I haven't entered the territory yet so I don't know. From there someone should be able to tell you what to do next in the Running Thread.
Also you should beware, it is very tough on your body to be doing this running AND lifting. I'm training for the army as well (US Marines) so I'm going through the same struggles myself. You have to eat the right amount to maintain your body, this you can figure out in the Nutrition Thread where some expert can tell you how calories and protein you need at your height and weight.
I honestly don't think you need to worry about losing weight until it's time to go to bootcamp because already you're burning a shit ton of calories by upping your mileage week by week. Maybe cut a month earlier or something, I don't know what your belly restrictions are if you're South Korean so cut as you see fit. But this only works if you have months to work with, if you're low on time then this will be difficult...
This reply is really late, but in case it's still relevant:
On August 27 2013 14:46 Meatex wrote:
But as I want to build endurance for running as well I should still be doing cardio exercise as well as strength training but what kind is best and how often is where i'm lost.
I currently do 1 hour of running at fairly slow pace (9-10km) followed by 100 situps and because I haven't been doing strength training I also do push ups in what I believe is called pyramid workout. (max, half, half again, max)
That is a good start. That is the bread and butter if improving running. It develops the aerobic system nicely, increases economy, and most importantly strengthens the tendons/ligaments, joints, and bones to prepare for more volume and more intense running.
I would do that one day then next day I would do 2.4km run as fast as I could which I got to 8:40 on treadmill but had to take a few short rests so its not a legit 8:40 maybe closer to 9:20. Then I would follow with weight training. Then rest day and repeat the next day.
I am thinking this is not a good way to do it :S Is it better to focus on asap 2.4km or should it be 5km or doing 50-60 minute 10k better?
I'm thinking you are correct. What I don't like is this all out 2.4k stuff. (Why 2.4k anyway?) Racing has a time and place, but every other day is way, way too much.
A basic idea if you were going to train say 5 days a week would be
M -OFF Tu - 60 min easy Wed - 20 min tempo run w/1.5M wu/cd OR progressive run (start much easier than normally, get faster gradually throughout run, finish last 10-15 minutes at a strong but not "painful" effort level) Thu - OFF Fri -60 min easy Sat - 45 min easy Sun - Longer run (1-3 miles more than normal run) OR Track work
Now as far as paces, it would be good to know exact fitness...and without knowing how many and how long breaks its hard to estimate, but if we give you 9'20" 2.4k, then you are in roughly 5:55 mile shape and 20:45 5k shape.
Your easy runs then will likely be around 5:10-5:25 pace depending on the day. Easy IS NOT a pace though. It is an effort. One day 8:15 might feel smooth as butter, and on a different day 9:00 pace will be where easy is. Your current 6 min km pace is likely a little too easy however.
Tempo effort is again, an effort. Comfortably hard. This pace is fast, but not so fast it truly hurts. You would be glad to slow down, but you shouldn't be digging deep into your mental fortitude to keep pace. For a 20:45 guy, that would be around 4:20-4:30 per km most likely.
For "track" work I'd say two good sessions would be: 5-6x800m in 3:15 w 2min slow jog recovery between each 8-10x400m in 2:55 w/2min slow jog recovery.
if you have more questions for the running side, feel free to ask away here or in the running thread
I've been going to the gym for two months now, and although, surprisingly, I have managed to attend each and every session, I don't seem to be making any progress.
I'm 5,7-5,8, at 65 kilos.
My workout (Mo, Wednesdays and Saturdays)
Cycling for 15 minutes to warm up Dips (15, 12, 10, 8) Chin-ups (8, 6, 4, 4) Pull-ups (12, 8, 6, 6) Leg shit (on Mondays and Saturdays) Tummy shit (sit-ups from a angle, revers sit-ups on the Dip-rack) (on Wednesdays and Saturdays) Bench-press (10, 8, 5, 5, currently at 50 kilos) Bizeps curls (15, 12, 10, 8, currently at 14 kilos)
I'm not supposed to do dead-lifts or squads yet, because due to shortened calve-muscles I have terrible form and too much back strain, so am I perhaps missing any vital muscle groups?
On December 12 2013 20:01 SixStrings wrote: Hey guys,
I've been going to the gym for two months now, and although, surprisingly, I have managed to attend each and every session, I don't seem to be making any progress.
I'm 5,7-5,8, at 65 kilos.
My workout (Mo, Wednesdays and Saturdays)
Cycling for 15 minutes to warm up Dips (15, 12, 10, 8) Chin-ups (8, 6, 4, 4) Pull-ups (12, 8, 6, 6) Leg shit (on Mondays and Saturdays) Tummy shit (sit-ups from a angle, revers sit-ups on the Dip-rack) (on Wednesdays and Saturdays) Bench-press (10, 8, 5, 5, currently at 50 kilos) Bizeps curls (15, 12, 10, 8, currently at 14 kilos)
I'm not supposed to do dead-lifts or squads yet, because due to shortened calve-muscles I have terrible form and too much back strain, so am I perhaps missing any vital muscle groups?
3-4 minutes between sets for lifts. Try to do sets across so if you can 15 in your first set but that's max then do 13-13-13-13 instead. Last set usually is to failure.
Eat more. Do some form of rows instead of chinups and pullups... only choose one of those
So far it seems like my chesticles don't get worked out at all, they're the only thing that never feels even a little sore.
In February, I'll start a course focussing on functional strength (2+2+4 hours a week again), so if you have advice geared towards getting ready for it, I'd appreciate it.
My superpower is being able to be stop a thread dead.
Preferences on deadlift: Keep a lot of tension when you reach the bottom or let the bar hit bottom so that it's as if you're approaching the bar on each rep?
I try to keep my elbows at about a 45 degrees from body when I bench. What you don't want is flaring your elbows out at like 90 because that will wreck your shoulder joint. You need to torque the bar to keep your shoulder in a stable position, so you're "breaking" the bar in half (as if the middle would split up above your head). Hopefully that answers the palm question because really they just need to be on the bar?
Deadlift: for strength I've always seen it recommended to start from a dead stop, hence deadlift, if you're goal is strength. I could see if bodybuilders want time under tension and not set it down but I'm really just guessing since I haven't spent any time researching BB seriously.
On February 21 2014 19:28 Jerubaal wrote: My superpower is being able to be stop a thread dead.
Preferences on deadlift: Keep a lot of tension when you reach the bottom or let the bar hit bottom so that it's as if you're approaching the bar on each rep?
This thread doesn't see nearly the traffic of the other ones, I'd suggest asking in Fitness Questions and Answers in thefuture.
Thanks for the advice on the deadlift, Mordek. I think I'll have to look into it more, but I can't see how starting 'dead' could be a totally bad thing. I was asking SixStrings about his bench press form. You're dead on about the elbows, but I've noticed some people let their palms come up to their collarbone.
On February 24 2014 07:58 Jerubaal wrote: Thanks for the advice on the deadlift, Mordek. I think I'll have to look into it more, but I can't see how starting 'dead' could be a totally bad thing. I was asking SixStrings about his bench press form. You're dead on about the elbows, but I've noticed some people let their palms come up to their collarbone.
Najda- you're probably right.
Oh yeah whoops, I ignored his post since it was a month prior lol. I agree with Najda, the simple questions gets a lot more traffic in my experience.
On February 24 2014 07:58 Jerubaal wrote: Thanks for the advice on the deadlift, Mordek. I think I'll have to look into it more, but I can't see how starting 'dead' could be a totally bad thing. I was asking SixStrings about his bench press form. You're dead on about the elbows, but I've noticed some people let their palms come up to their collarbone.
Najda- you're probably right.
Let the bar come fully to the ground between deadlift reps, but there's no reason to lose the tension/tightness in your body while doing so.
Ok guys I have really fucked up my body doing a low carb (under 60g) dailly diet. I ate a lot of veggies (750g dailly?) too.
I ate A LOT of protein and fat trough meat/peanuts/cheese/that sort of stuff. I got really ripped and lost a lot of fat really fast. It was working quite well for say two weeks but then my eyes got destroyed first. Dry eyes, sandy eyes. losing sight.. After that my head started hurting all day every day and I basically had 0 energy to go trough the day, so eventually I started sleeping every afternoon for 2 hours on top of 9 hours night sleep. I felt miserable, angry, deppresed all the time. I looked even worse then how i felt, pale as fuck, no stature, dry skin, lips, losing hair...............................
I dont know why I do these things to myself but hey whats done is done, Im an idiot.
I made a different diet plan today which consists of 146g of carbs (36%), 161g of protein (40%) and 94g of fat (24%). The calories equall to about 2194kcal/day. The days I have training or I just feel really hungry for whatever reason I will eat additional 100g of oatmeal with one teaspoon of honey (cos im fucking done with starving myself) per meal, or eggs, or fruit, peanuts, whatever, untill im full. My job requires my brain to work normally so thats a priority. I would really like to lose the fat tho
Will I lose fat using these amounts (btw the food quallity is good)??
PS: There is a huge possibility I overestimate those grams and ratios to the basic quallity and type of food I eat. I am not very educated on these topics.
On March 05 2014 19:05 NukeD wrote: Ok guys I have really fucked up my body doing a low carb (under 60g) dailly diet. I ate a lot of veggies (750g dailly?) too.
I ate A LOT of protein and fat trough meat/peanuts/cheese/that sort of stuff. I got really ripped and lost a lot of fat really fast. It was working quite well for say two weeks but then my eyes got destroyed first. Dry eyes, sandy eyes. losing sight.. After that my head started hurting all day every day and I basically had 0 energy to go trough the day, so eventually I started sleeping every afternoon for 2 hours on top of 9 hours night sleep. I felt miserable, angry, deppresed all the time. I looked even worse then how i felt, pale as fuck, no stature, dry skin, lips, losing hair...............................
I dont know why I do these things to myself but hey whats done is done, Im an idiot.
I made a different diet plan today which consists of 146g of carbs (36%), 161g of protein (40%) and 94g of fat (24%). The calories equall to about 2194kcal/day. The days I have training or I just feel really hungry for whatever reason I will eat additional 100g of oatmeal with one teaspoon of honey (cos im fucking done with starving myself) per meal, or eggs, or fruit, peanuts, whatever, untill im full. My job requires my brain to work normally so thats a priority. I would really like to lose the fat tho
Will I lose fat using these amounts (btw the food quallity is good)??
PS: There is a huge possibility I overestimate those grams and ratios to the basic quallity and type of food I eat. I am not very educated on these topics.
Really ripped and lost fat fast.... in two weeks of using it? detrimental effects of the diet after TWO weeks of using it? It really sounds like you are interpreting results too easily. Still, if you feel such detrimental effects, I understand the need to pay attention, regardless what they come from.
Honestly, with the information you provided it's hard for anyone to make more than an educated guess for what could be wrong. We don't have your bodyweight or height, so 2200 kcal/day means nothing to us, besides it being below maintenance for most men.
Maybe there was something wrong with the diet, but just talking about carbs, proteins and fats isn't going to tell us much. There's a million other things the human body needs that you get from an average diet, and we have no idea if you paid attention to those or not. Maybe you missed some important micronutrients which led to ill effects (or too much of something? Someone better versed in nutrition can provide better judgement).
However, you could look into paleo diet, and make your diet plan based on that. It should let you get all your daily micro and macronutrients, feel energetic etc etc.
I'm 188cm and 82 kg. Ive been in training for 2 years now, every week three times for an hour and only missing out under 15 of those trainings in two years. The training is something like crossfit but with weightlifting sort of thing, I guess you can call it "condition" training. I have started with 90kg with no muscles and a lot of fat.
Before the diet you could see the formation of my sixpack (im using this as a reference) beneath some layers of fat. I was like that for a long time and it didnt really seem like the fat is coming down anymore. So I tried cutting the carbs by a lot and after that I lost 2 kg (it could have been water I dunno) in two weeks. I felt and looked great for about two weeks on that diet, and you could finally see my sixpack (altho there was still fat on my belly)- not moviestar/magazine cover sixpack but it was ok. So I guessed if I continue this diet I would have 6% bodyfat no problem.
Then things started falling apart as Ive explained in previous post.
So I was eating mostly: chicken breast, tuna, some salmon, uh that diet cheese with lots of protein and low fat and carbs (I dont know what its called in english), eggs, a lot of spinach, broccoli and generally frozen vegetables (some fresh too), a lot of peanuts and all sort of nuts. I started taking Omega 3 acid pills when my eyes started hurting and when it didnt stop I added vitamin C (I think it was C, not sure) and it helped the problem a bit but still couldnt make me last through the day.
So this was what I was eating for two and half weeks and as Ive said Ive felt amazing for that short amount of time. Then slowly I began waking up with dry eyes and then the headaces and then the just overall miserabillity.
My callories added up on average to about 3000 kcal I think so its not the pure calories that made me die.
On March 05 2014 20:55 NukeD wrote: What I mean by "really ripped":
I'm 188cm and 82 kg. Ive been in training for 2 years now, every week three times for an hour and only missing out under 15 of those trainings in two years. The training is something like crossfit but with weightlifting sort of thing, I guess you can call it "condition" training. I have started with 90kg with no muscles and a lot of fat.
Before the diet you could see the formation of my sixpack (im using this as a reference) beneath some layers of fat. I was like that for a long time and it didnt really seem like the fat is coming down anymore. So I tried cutting the carbs by a lot and after that I lost 2 kg (it could have been water I dunno) in two weeks. I felt and looked great for about two weeks on that diet, and you could finally see my sixpack (altho there was still fat on my belly)- not moviestar/magazine cover sixpack but it was ok. So I guessed if I continue this diet I would have 6% bodyfat no problem.
Then things started falling apart as Ive explained in previous post.
So I was eating mostly: chicken breast, tuna, some salmon, uh that diet cheese with lots of protein and low fat and carbs (I dont know what its called in english), eggs, a lot of spinach, broccoli and generally frozen vegetables (some fresh too), a lot of peanuts and all sort of nuts. I started taking Omega 3 acid pills when my eyes started hurting and when it didnt stop I added vitamin C (I think it was C, not sure) and it helped the problem a bit but still couldnt make me last through the day.
So this was what I was eating for two and half weeks and as Ive said Ive felt amazing for that short amount of time. Then slowly I began waking up with dry eyes and then the headaces and then the just overall miserabillity.
My callories added up on average to about 3000 kcal I think so its not the pure calories that made me die.
Thanks for helping me out!
If you have ~2 hrs or so to spend i feel Eric Helm's "The Muscle and Strength Nutritional Pyramid" is pretty good. It's mostly about which parts of a diet is the most important to reach your goals, but he also talks about a lot of the basics and gives some examples of macronutrient ratios etc. while going through the different levels of the pyramid.
i read the op but couldn't find anything on it so i'll ask about it here.. what do you guys think about full body training as opposed to doing 1-2 body parts at a time? i assume it burns more calories but i don't think i could do it 4-5 times a week like i do now with my split routine. what should be its effect on strength? for example what's the difference between doing 2 back exercises 3 times a week and doing 5 back exercises one time a week? the reason i'm asking is that i have a lot on my hands right now and i can barely stick to my gym program so cutting it down to 3 times a week would really help a lot, but i don't know what to expect from this change. if anyone here gave it a shot i'd appreciate their input. thanks
full body training is better for beginners (and many intermediate lifters as well) because
-- you're training big compound movements (squat, deadlift, bench, overhead press, rows) -- stimulate prime movers as well as stabilizers -- functional, practical movements that you actually use in daily life and in sports -- you'll get the most strength gainz
if you do a solid full body strength routine, you will see massive strength gainz. you'll have a stronger physique, become better at anything strength/power related (sports, athletics, etc), have stronger joints, and get injured less often.
what are your goals btw? it sounds like SL 5x5 is perfect for you.
Can u guys advise me with some tips to improve my broad jump? Im really bad at it, i can only jump around 2.20m and would like to jump about 2.40 consistently.
On May 23 2012 11:06 decafchicken wrote: i don't even know what the fuck this discussion is about i feel like i just read the same post 6 times.
Don't eat shitty food. If it is comprised mostly of sugar or heavily processed, avoid it. If you don't have to cook it, you should probably avoid that too (besides fruits and veges obv)
Do cardio. Don't do cardio. It doesn't really fucking matter. Abs are made in the kitchen. If you wanna burn some extra calories with cardio - look in to high intensity interval training
Lift weights. Don't lift weights. It still doesnt really matter. If you want your body to recompose faster and have more muscle to show off once you lose that fat, then do some basic barbell exercises MENTIONED IN THE STICKIES LIKE EVERYTHING ELSE YOU NEED TO KNOW AND THAT ANSWERS ALL OF YOUR INQUIRIES. If you don't than just keep eating healther.
Lifting weights does matter in a way because muscles burn calories even at rest.
On May 23 2012 11:06 decafchicken wrote: i don't even know what the fuck this discussion is about i feel like i just read the same post 6 times.
Don't eat shitty food. If it is comprised mostly of sugar or heavily processed, avoid it. If you don't have to cook it, you should probably avoid that too (besides fruits and veges obv)
Do cardio. Don't do cardio. It doesn't really fucking matter. Abs are made in the kitchen. If you wanna burn some extra calories with cardio - look in to high intensity interval training
Lift weights. Don't lift weights. It still doesnt really matter. If you want your body to recompose faster and have more muscle to show off once you lose that fat, then do some basic barbell exercises MENTIONED IN THE STICKIES LIKE EVERYTHING ELSE YOU NEED TO KNOW AND THAT ANSWERS ALL OF YOUR INQUIRIES. If you don't than just keep eating healther.
Lifting weights does matter in a way because muscles burn calories even at rest.
It took me a while to realize that you were responding to a post from over 2 years ago. I think you're a little late to the party bro.
On March 05 2014 20:55 NukeD wrote: What I mean by "really ripped":
I'm 188cm and 82 kg. Ive been in training for 2 years now, every week three times for an hour and only missing out under 15 of those trainings in two years. The training is something like crossfit but with weightlifting sort of thing, I guess you can call it "condition" training. I have started with 90kg with no muscles and a lot of fat.
Before the diet you could see the formation of my sixpack (im using this as a reference) beneath some layers of fat. I was like that for a long time and it didnt really seem like the fat is coming down anymore. So I tried cutting the carbs by a lot and after that I lost 2 kg (it could have been water I dunno) in two weeks. I felt and looked great for about two weeks on that diet, and you could finally see my sixpack (altho there was still fat on my belly)- not moviestar/magazine cover sixpack but it was ok. So I guessed if I continue this diet I would have 6% bodyfat no problem.
Then things started falling apart as Ive explained in previous post.
So I was eating mostly: chicken breast, tuna, some salmon, uh that diet cheese with lots of protein and low fat and carbs (I dont know what its called in english), eggs, a lot of spinach, broccoli and generally frozen vegetables (some fresh too), a lot of peanuts and all sort of nuts. I started taking Omega 3 acid pills when my eyes started hurting and when it didnt stop I added vitamin C (I think it was C, not sure) and it helped the problem a bit but still couldnt make me last through the day.
So this was what I was eating for two and half weeks and as Ive said Ive felt amazing for that short amount of time. Then slowly I began waking up with dry eyes and then the headaces and then the just overall miserabillity.
My callories added up on average to about 3000 kcal I think so its not the pure calories that made me die.
Thanks for helping me out!
If you have ~2 hrs or so to spend i feel Eric Helm's "The Muscle and Strength Nutritional Pyramid" is pretty good. It's mostly about which parts of a diet is the most important to reach your goals, but he also talks about a lot of the basics and gives some examples of macronutrient ratios etc. while going through the different levels of the pyramid.
The majority of my training is geared towards cycling (road racing) so it may not be as accurate as far as specifically weight training, but it seems like a lot of people are cutting out carbs and just jamming in as much protein as if carbs are a bad thing. In cycling, we tend to consume foods with a very high GI (glycemic index) before and during rides to generate bursts of energy. You're obviously not going to need quite as much fuel because we're riding a lot longer endurance distances, but am I wrong to assume that for serious weight training fueling up is equally as important?
EDIT: After viewing that youtube link, the author makes mention of "sabotaging training" from consuming too little carbs. Are you adequately fueling yourself for your training intensity?
I have a rather specific question: I'm trying to prepare for a tough mudder in October. Apart from doing cardio regularly and some regular strength training I wouldn't know much on what to do. I don't have access to any kind of military obstacle course. So, any suggestions on what I could do at the regular gym?
In preparation for mine I was running 4-5 mi a few times a week at a good pace. I lifted weights occasionally and did some bodyweight stuff incorporated with some of my runs. I've always been a decent runner and I ran the whole thing and the thought of starting in the next wave actually crossed my mind. You will get breaks waiting to get through obstacles and water stops so it's not like you have to be able to run a competitive half marathon or anything.
If you're just wanting to be prepared for obstacles some are just mental. The mount everest wall or w/e was a challenge for some but some people including myself had half our bodies over the lip before we grabbed on the top. The monkey bars can be hard if it's been awhile since you did any pull-ups. Take a look at the course listing to identify anything that might give you trouble.
I have a problem that i could not solve about my calf, they are bigger and thinner compared to my body. I really dont know why, maybe a little football background and genetics but i dont like em.
What i want, in a short speak i want them to be slimmer, because i want to wear shorts with sneakers etc. Right know, it doesnt look good at all. Do you have any special recommendations? Ive tried common trainings already, they dont help, instead they make me bigger.
Those are normal legs with a weird aspect ratio. See here for how they realy look. Maybe to other people yours look normal/natural to. To quote you from another thread:
On September 13 2014 07:49 pls no ty wrote: Embrace your nature guys.
So, weird question here. I want to be stronger, but I don't want to get bigger. I'm not really sure how to do this, since I think muscle growth comes naturally when exercising. Still, was wondering if anyone had any ideas.
Don't eat too much and you'll be fine. You can work on bodyweight exercises which get significantly harder if you gain weight. If you progress on those you're probably meeting your criteria. No one accidentally gets huge lifting, it takes the right diet and exercise. The worst thing you can do is nothing because you're afraid of getting big
My understanding is that to get bigger, you need to be weighlifting while taking in normal or increased calories, and a higher amount of protein. For example, I'm 27, male, and around 160 - and my caloric intake should be 2200-2400. If I intake 2600 and a ratio of 1lb:1g of protein, while weight training, I would get bigger over time. If I keep my caloric intake at 2200 and my protein at about 1lb:0.8 or 0.9g of protein, I shouldn't increase size - but I will increase my strength up to the maximum my muscles can handle at their given mass. From there, if I want to increase strength further, I'll have to increase the muscle mass.
Over the last 5 months, I've actually been caloric deficient to lose fat (went from 185lb-155lb) while taking 140-160g of protein a day and weight lifting 3 days a week. By doing that, I've lost weight and fat, while my muscles didn't get huge - but I definitely have increased my lifts (bench went from 160lb-190lb). So perhaps that would be close to what you are looking for too.
On September 26 2014 09:11 Dark_Chill wrote: So, weird question here. I want to be stronger, but I don't want to get bigger. I'm not really sure how to do this, since I think muscle growth comes naturally when exercising. Still, was wondering if anyone had any ideas.
Your question's too vague to give you a meaningful answer. What do you mean by stronger? What do you mean by bigger?
On January 05 2012 11:56 kastoob wrote: Do you guys have any objections to steady cardio for general health and wellness?
i subscribe to Dr. John Berardi's viewpoint on the role "steady state cardio" plays in maintaining general health and wellness. Its meh. its better than being totally sedentary. running for more than 10 km at a time does more harm than good.
On January 05 2012 11:56 kastoob wrote: I have been doing starting strength and am now doing advanced novice, my lifts (5reps) are as follows: Squat: 65kg Overhead: 35kg Bench: 50kg Deadlift: 70kg(feels kinda easy, I reduced weight when I took two weeks off for final year exams.)
i started doing the StrongLifts.com 5X5 in 2007. i plateau-ed in 2013 and i'm not much interested in getting any bigger or stronger. i still do it today.
Stronglifts.com 5X5 is a great simple, effective program for strength training and i recommend it to any one in good health.
With any strenuous training regimen make sure you are getting checked by a DR every 6 months to make sure your heart is fine. You don't want to happen to you what happened to Rich Peverley.
On September 26 2014 09:11 Dark_Chill wrote: So, weird question here. I want to be stronger, but I don't want to get bigger. I'm not really sure how to do this, since I think muscle growth comes naturally when exercising. Still, was wondering if anyone had any ideas.
the maximum force a muscle cell can extert during contraction is directly proportional to its cross sectional area.
Any ideas on how to thin out my thighs? I did way too much squatting (I can squat my weight now though....) and a lot of my pants are starting to get sad. I'm okay with doing other leg activities (I've been running instead of squatting now), but I'm not sure exactly what to do if I want to target that... half the people on google say more squats and half the people say no more squats :p
edit: okay i read some more stuff and it's like i should never stop squatting. not that i'm planning to but my thighs
On April 05 2015 14:13 Blisse wrote: Any ideas on how to thin out my thighs? I did way too much squatting (I can squat my weight now though....) and a lot of my pants are starting to get sad. I'm okay with doing other leg activities (I've been running instead of squatting now), but I'm not sure exactly what to do if I want to target that... half the people on google say more squats and half the people say no more squats :p
edit: okay i read some more stuff and it's like i should never stop squatting. not that i'm planning to but my thighs
I tore my first pair of pants last night; unfortunately big thighs are a problem people who squat a lot have to deal with. If lifting is something you enjoy, I'd focus more energy on finding pants that fit you rather than trying to fit into your pants.
On April 07 2015 02:32 JinDesu wrote: Get big calves so that straight leg pants don't look weird on you. Give up expecting to fit into anything less than a straight leg.
I wear straight leg pants that are like 3 or 4 sizes larger than my waist just to feel comfortable with a wallet in my front pocket...
I don't understand why more regularfit with a tapered leg pants aren't made. The only thing I can find with taper are skinny/slim fit and those are too tight on my thighs usually.
I understand that this thread seems to be mainly about weightlifting, but the title says general training, so I figured it would be ok. (If there is another, better thread, please say so)
Recently I've randomly tried out swimming to keep myself fit. I've done it only once, and the results were very bad. I've had muscle aches all over, and I couldn't even swim like 100 meters straight at my preferred speed. However, I really liked the places I had muscle aches, as one seems to use a very large portion of the body, compared to for example running. Because I haven't really learned anything else, I only used the breaststroke ('schoolslag' in dutch, not sure if that's the right translation). My question is as follows: if my goal is just to keep myself fit (I'm not trying to become a competitive swimmer or something), what should I pay attention to? Should I learn new techniques? Should I focus on stamina or speed? Are there some programmes or books that focus on these things?
On August 12 2015 11:59 Yorbon wrote: I understand that this thread seems to be mainly about weightlifting, but the title says general training, so I figured it would be ok. (If there is another, better thread, please say so)
Recently I've randomly tried out swimming to keep myself fit. I've done it only once, and the results were very bad. I've had muscle aches all over, and I couldn't even swim like 100 meters straight at my preferred speed. However, I really liked the places I had muscle aches, as one seems to use a very large portion of the body, compared to for example running. Because I haven't really learned anything else, I only used the breaststroke ('schoolslag' in dutch, not sure if that's the right translation). My question is as follows: if my goal is just to keep myself fit (I'm not trying to become a competitive swimmer or something), what should I pay attention to? Should I learn new techniques? Should I focus on stamina or speed? Are there some programmes or books that focus on these things?
I'm looking forward to any responses
I think if your goal is to just keep fit, you should focus on consistency (eg. Going x times a week) and also setting a regime/goal oriented swim. By that I mean, try setting a number of laps without a break or maybe start measuring your times. That way you have some sort of motivation and visible improvement over time.
Why wouldn't you learn everything and train for speed and endurance(and everything else you desire). Our perk as non professionals is that we dont have to limit ourselft just to exel at one point.
On August 12 2015 11:59 Yorbon wrote: I understand that this thread seems to be mainly about weightlifting, but the title says general training, so I figured it would be ok. (If there is another, better thread, please say so)
Recently I've randomly tried out swimming to keep myself fit. I've done it only once, and the results were very bad. I've had muscle aches all over, and I couldn't even swim like 100 meters straight at my preferred speed. However, I really liked the places I had muscle aches, as one seems to use a very large portion of the body, compared to for example running. Because I haven't really learned anything else, I only used the breaststroke ('schoolslag' in dutch, not sure if that's the right translation). My question is as follows: if my goal is just to keep myself fit (I'm not trying to become a competitive swimmer or something), what should I pay attention to? Should I learn new techniques? Should I focus on stamina or speed? Are there some programmes or books that focus on these things?
I'm looking forward to any responses
please make sure your do the breast stroke legs properly, improper technique results in knee damage.
Front crawl is a very popular and good technique for keeping fit, but proper execution is very hard and im not sure you can really learn without a good coach. As with breaststroker, improper execution damages shoulders and neck. good thing about front crawl is that an improperly done stroke is more taxing than a properly done one, which builds willpower imo and also prevents beginners from tricling themselves into thinking they did a good swim when all they did was hanging in the water for an hour like i see so many people do with breaststroke in public pools.
Frontcrawl is also very different in that it is a asymmetrical stroke, which makes it harder to learn but you mighht find it more pleasent to swim because its more fluid
If 100 meters is taxing you, you can try something like (2-4) times 100 meters, the breaks inbetween are 12 times drawing breath, then 4 times 50 with breaks of 10 breaths. then you can increase how many times you do the 100 at after a few eeks you add 200m etc.
always go to limit on the last 25-50 meters until you know yourself better and then you know yourself when you can start pushing for speed.
On August 12 2015 11:59 Yorbon wrote: I understand that this thread seems to be mainly about weightlifting, but the title says general training, so I figured it would be ok. (If there is another, better thread, please say so)
Recently I've randomly tried out swimming to keep myself fit. I've done it only once, and the results were very bad. I've had muscle aches all over, and I couldn't even swim like 100 meters straight at my preferred speed. However, I really liked the places I had muscle aches, as one seems to use a very large portion of the body, compared to for example running. Because I haven't really learned anything else, I only used the breaststroke ('schoolslag' in dutch, not sure if that's the right translation). My question is as follows: if my goal is just to keep myself fit (I'm not trying to become a competitive swimmer or something), what should I pay attention to? Should I learn new techniques? Should I focus on stamina or speed? Are there some programmes or books that focus on these things?
I'm looking forward to any responses
please make sure your do the breast stroke legs properly, improper technique results in knee damage.
Front crawl is a very popular and good technique for keeping fit, but proper execution is very hard and im not sure you can really learn without a good coach. As with breaststroker, improper execution damages shoulders and neck. good thing about front crawl is that an improperly done stroke is more taxing than a properly done one, which builds willpower imo and also prevents beginners from tricling themselves into thinking they did a good swim when all they did was hanging in the water for an hour like i see so many people do with breaststroke in public pools.
Frontcrawl is also very different in that it is a asymmetrical stroke, which makes it harder to learn but you mighht find it more pleasent to swim because its more fluid
Is this for real?
I always thought there was sth wrong with my knee that i couldn't do the breast stroke legs properly and not the other way around...
I hope I can revive this dead thread for some advice because I need it. I've been having wrist pain in my right wrist. It doesn't hurt throughout the day, but I'm having trouble even picking up grocery bags. It seems mostly to be a weakness in a supinated position. I'm not having any pain in a neutral position, but when I try to lift with the palm up, it hurts. Or, when I try to keep a neutral position like in a shoulder press, it's very difficult. I have been using kettlebells a lot right now, which no doubt is contributing to the acute issue. I'm having almost no problems with my left wrist, though. I could simply stop for a while, but I've had weak wrists for a while and I don't think the overall problem is going to go away on its own. Thoughts?
On May 29 2020 19:33 Jerubaal wrote: I hope I can revive this dead thread for some advice because I need it. I've been having wrist pain in my right wrist. It doesn't hurt throughout the day, but I'm having trouble even picking up grocery bags. It seems mostly to be a weakness in a supinated position. I'm not having any pain in a neutral position, but when I try to lift with the palm up, it hurts. Or, when I try to keep a neutral position like in a shoulder press, it's very difficult. I have been using kettlebells a lot right now, which no doubt is contributing to the acute issue. I'm having almost no problems with my left wrist, though. I could simply stop for a while, but I've had weak wrists for a while and I don't think the overall problem is going to go away on its own. Thoughts?
Sounds like an RSI, imo. Before I gave up on fitness and got fat, I used to get that all the time. Generally speaking, I found poor form contributed to the issues. Specifically, I'd over-extend my arm while benching, causing my wrist to flex inward. I can't remember supinated vs pronated, and I can't be bothered to look it up, but my hand would point toward my body, sort of like this image here:
(mad paint skills). Very easy to do the same thing with kettlebells, but the force of the kettlebell dropping could worsen the outcome.
I also found that typing on a standard keyboard contributed pretty massively to this problem. I switched to an ergonomic keyboard for that reason many years ago for that reason. I use this one, if you want a recommendation. You won't impress any of your dbag gamer friends with some sick red keys or whatever the fuck they use on those annoying-as-shit mechanical keyboards (I worked with a ton of nerds who brought mechanicals in to the office), but your wrists will feel better. If you type even remotely properly, adjusting isn't an issue.
Apart from that, I still get some random wrist pains that can't really be explained, but they go away in a couple of days, so I've mostly ignored them. It's probably lupus.
EPT
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![[image loading]](https://imgur.com/a/devqTct)
