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TL Health and Fitness Initiative 2011 - Page 539

Forum Index > Sports
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ShadowDrgn
Profile Blog Joined July 2007
United States2497 Posts
August 31 2011 19:26 GMT
#10761
On September 01 2011 02:07 Mithrandir wrote:
No, not owned. He didn't provide a single reference with a metabolic ward study where for bodyfat lowcarb outperforms lowfat. Maybe you should actually read what I write, read what he responds, and realize he is completely not answering the question.


Can you provide some studies showing the opposite? Right now, all I see is eshlow churning out the evidence and you responding with demands, unsupported assertions, anecdotes, and ad hominem attacks against this community. He linked to sites, showed his search terms, and offered everyone to read any of the studies found; that's exactly the opposite of "cherry picking." He's trying to help, and you're kinda acting like a dick.
Of course, you only live one life, and you make all your mistakes, and learn what not to do, and that’s the end of you.
eshlow
Profile Joined June 2008
United States5210 Posts
August 31 2011 19:28 GMT
#10762
On September 01 2011 04:11 dudeman001 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 01 2011 04:03 Razith wrote:
On September 01 2011 03:58 glurio wrote:
On September 01 2011 03:46 Razith wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
On September 01 2011 00:09 eshlow wrote:
Regular meals to stoke metabolism is a myth. See the studies here:

http://www.leangains.com/2010/10/top-ten-fasting-myths-debunked.html

High fiber does very little for weight loss compared to low carb.

Low carb consistently outperforms low fat in regards to weight loss in the SCIENTIFIC LITERATURE. And is healthy.


Wow that pretty much shows that I knew nothing.

So basically the only thing that matters is that calories out is more than calories in, and that the amount you eat isn't ridiculously low?

I feel completely lost after reading this article.. can anyone explain to me whats the best thing to do then? or link me to good resources?


Well it all depends on your goals. Calories in < Calories out is what you need to lose weight.
To lose bodyfat quickly go low carb, but that is expensive if you go the paleo route and if not, pretty damn boring.


Uh.. what?

I've lost about 15-20lbs from running 5 miles / 4-5 days a week and eating clean and not too much. But from what I read apparently everything I've been trying to do, like eat breakfast, eat smaller meals through out the day etc. isn't even needed. Now I just feel lost.

All the nutritional weight loss studies out there can be overwhelming when weight loss is actually really simple: using more energy than you consume. Think about running: you're carrying your weight 5 miles, in pure physics this takes an X amount of energy (your body also burns more energy after the exercise, but we'll disregard that for now for simplicity sake). As long as you're eating less than your daily maintenance + X, you will lose weight. When you eat doesn't matter. In terms of how much: as long as you're calories out > calories in, your body has no choice but to burn fat. It's good to understand the basics of dieting, but please don't go to leangains for that advice.


kcals in vs kcals out is oversimplified, but true to a large extent. However, to the extent that it works is limited in the extent of an individual person's metabolic dysfunction and their genetics.

Focusing on quality food tends to provide far superior results in practice.

For more details on obesity research read Stephan's blog posts over the last few months:
http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/
Overcoming Gravity: A Systematic Approach to Gymnastics and Bodyweight Strength
Razith
Profile Joined February 2011
Canada431 Posts
August 31 2011 19:28 GMT
#10763
On September 01 2011 04:08 Malinor wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 01 2011 04:03 Razith wrote:
I've lost about 15-20lbs from running 5 miles / 4-5 days a week and eating clean and not too much. But from what I read apparently everything I've been trying to do, like eat breakfast, eat smaller meals through out the day etc. isn't even needed. Now I just feel lost.


You have been active and you have been eating cleaner, and lost 15-20lb. That sounds pretty good to me. But yes, it does not make a difference whether you eat breakfast or not or how many meals you eat per day. But if that is working for you (in the sense that it helps you control you appetite), then why change a working system? And if you don't want to eat like this, you now have a reason to stop doing it.


Well I was always worried about skipping breakfast and my body going into 'starvation mode' that everyone would keep telling me about. I was always worried about eating too much in one sitting. I completely understand that the calories out needs to be > the calories in, and that you need to make sure you aren't eating a ridiculously low amount of calories, but it was all the other stuff that had me worried.

Controlling my appetite and what I eat isn't a problem. I have enough self control and determination to lean out; it was just the other stuff that gives me a headache.

On September 01 2011 04:11 dudeman001 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 01 2011 04:03 Razith wrote:
On September 01 2011 03:58 glurio wrote:
On September 01 2011 03:46 Razith wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
On September 01 2011 00:09 eshlow wrote:
Regular meals to stoke metabolism is a myth. See the studies here:

http://www.leangains.com/2010/10/top-ten-fasting-myths-debunked.html

High fiber does very little for weight loss compared to low carb.

Low carb consistently outperforms low fat in regards to weight loss in the SCIENTIFIC LITERATURE. And is healthy.


Wow that pretty much shows that I knew nothing.

So basically the only thing that matters is that calories out is more than calories in, and that the amount you eat isn't ridiculously low?

I feel completely lost after reading this article.. can anyone explain to me whats the best thing to do then? or link me to good resources?


Well it all depends on your goals. Calories in < Calories out is what you need to lose weight.
To lose bodyfat quickly go low carb, but that is expensive if you go the paleo route and if not, pretty damn boring.


Uh.. what?

I've lost about 15-20lbs from running 5 miles / 4-5 days a week and eating clean and not too much. But from what I read apparently everything I've been trying to do, like eat breakfast, eat smaller meals through out the day etc. isn't even needed. Now I just feel lost.


All the nutritional weight loss studies out there can be overwhelming when weight loss is actually really simple: using more energy than you consume. Think about running: you're carrying your weight 5 miles, in pure physics this takes an X amount of energy (your body also burns more energy after the exercise, but we'll disregard that for now for simplicity sake). As long as you're eating less than your daily maintenance + X, you will lose weight. When you eat doesn't matter. In terms of how much: as long as you're calories out > calories in, your body has no choice but to burn fat. It's good to understand the basics of dieting, but please don't go to leangains for that advice.


Ya thats the model I've been following. If I expend more than what I take in, I should lose fat (which I have.. quite a bit). Its actually kind of relieving to hear that those things don't really matter and its just simply creating a deficit.

So lets say one day I eat a small breakfast and end up going out for lunch and eating a big meal, and then for dinner I'm careful to make sure I don't eat too much ontop of that big lunch to keep me at a deficit. Will have the same effect if I were to eat the same amount of calories but a normal 3 meals like I usually do?

Also, when picking foods I've been generally going for stuff thats low in fat. But generally most of my meals have a meat, starchy carb and vegetables. Is this okay or is there a better way to eat?

I've lost the majority of the fat and right now I'm at the part where my abs are starting to come through, so I'm trying to make sure I'm doing everything as accurately as possible.
eshlow
Profile Joined June 2008
United States5210 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-31 19:38:48
August 31 2011 19:37 GMT
#10764
Razith:

http://web.archive.org/web/20100128052519/http://www.fitnessspotlight.com/2008/6/4/nutrition-101-the-one-rule-to-remember/

Eat real foods. Don't eat processed foods.

Fruits, vegetables, nuts, seeds, meat, birds, fish, eggs, spices, herbs.

As long as you eat good quality foods it doesn't matter if you skip meals, or eat 10 meals a day with snacks.
Overcoming Gravity: A Systematic Approach to Gymnastics and Bodyweight Strength
eshlow
Profile Joined June 2008
United States5210 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-31 19:52:39
August 31 2011 19:49 GMT
#10765
On September 01 2011 02:21 Malinor wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 01 2011 01:25 eshlow wrote:
On September 01 2011 01:10 Mithrandir wrote:
On September 01 2011 00:09 eshlow wrote:
Low carb consistently outperforms low fat in regards to weight loss in the SCIENTIFIC LITERATURE. And is healthy.


Please, find me a metabolic ward study where low carb outperfroms low fat.

You can't, because they don't exist.

But there are a huge number of studies showing why high carb is necessary for lots of high intensity exercise.


lol? Are you serious? Have you seen anything of what I've seen saying in this thread for the past 500+ pages?

Low carb > low fat diets in losing weight, AND improving health. This is an indisputable fact.

Low carb diets outperform low fat diets, AND low fat diet gets the benefit of being calorically restricted:

http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa022637


I am very agnostic to whether low-carb or low-fat is better, I just happened to read the study design of the first study:

Study Design

The two diet groups attended separate two-hour group-teaching sessions each week for four weeks, followed by monthly one-hour sessions for five additional months; all sessions were led by experts in nutritional counseling. Subjects received a diet-overview handout, instructional nutrition labels, sample menus and recipes, and a book on counting calories and carbohydrates.5 No specific exercise program was recommended. The subjects assigned to the low-carbohydrate diet were instructed to restrict carbohydrate intake to 30 g per day or less.6 No instruction on restricting total fat intake was provided. Vegetables and fruits with high ratios of fiber to carbohydrate were recommended.6 The subjects assigned to the low-fat diet received instruction in accordance with the obesity-management guidelines of the National Heart, Lung, and Blood Institute,7 including caloric restriction sufficient to create a deficit of 500 calories per day, with 30 percent or less of total calories derived from fat.


I would probably bet my life that the first diet with less than 30g carbohydrates a day simply will result in a bigger deficit than 500 calories a day, which will explain the higher weight-loss. I had a big paprika today and that was already 11g of carbohydrates, you basically cannot eat anything but meat and some diary products (exagerating here).

edit: after reading further:

After six months of dietary counseling, subjects on the low-fat diet reported a decrease in caloric consumption while their macronutrient composition was close to the guidelines of the National Heart, Lung, and Blood Institute (Table 3Table 3Change from Base Line in the Composition of the Two Diets at Six Months.).7 As compared with the subjects on the low-fat diet, subjects on the low-carbohydrate diet reported a nonsignificantly greater reduction in caloric intake (P=0.33), a significantly greater decrease in the percentage of calories from carbohydrates (P<0.001), and a significantly greater increase in the percentage of calories from protein (P<0.001) and fat (P=0.004).

I find that very hard to believe, but I probably should not bet my life so easily without reading further.

I am pretty sure this is a classic case of one group just eating less than the other. The interesting question would be if low-carb or low-fat diet is easier to maintain and therefore more advisable for fat loss because of practical considerations.


Have you read Robb's Paleo Solution?

He does a good job explanating why.

Carbs do not really stimulate release of leptin (hormone); however, protein and fat does. Leptin tells your brain that you're getting full. This is why protein and fat are more "filling" e.g. satiety.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leptin

When you start to become obese and chronic inflammation goes up. Leptin sensitivity, like insulin sensitivity, can decrease. Therefore, people that are starting to get overweight tend to get into a vicious cycle of eating but their brain doesnt think they're full. So they keep eating, and raise inflammation and it goes around and around 'til they become very obese.

So obviously in the above the people still have some degree of leptin sensitivity. This is why higher fat diet does not have to regulate calories because the body can do it itself by (which it was designed to do with these hormones). However, when you feed processed foods with lots of carbohydrates people can just keep eating and eating and eating because of lack of appetite suppression.

People say that "eating fat makes you fat" but this is incorrect (even though fat has 9 kcal per gram as opposed to carbohydrates 4kcal per gram). Eating fat makes you full (and is yummy e.g. hyperpalatable). When you introduce lots of refined carbohydrates into the diet you actually end up consuming MUCH more kcals via carbohydrates than you would had you eaten fat even though fat tastes better and it seems like you would eat more of it.

It's the worst when you have hyperpalatable food rich in carbohydrates with lots of fat added (e.g. potato chips...). Potatoes are already rich in carbohydrates via starch, and when you add fat via deep frying they become extremely calorie dense.
Overcoming Gravity: A Systematic Approach to Gymnastics and Bodyweight Strength
rEiGN~
Profile Joined September 2010
369 Posts
August 31 2011 19:50 GMT
#10766
I'm guessing meat packed in protective gas (or vacuum?) isn't a perfect choice. Too bad that's the only remotely cheap option around here.
TL.net Stream Viewer Count http://goo.gl/ahf1E
Razith
Profile Joined February 2011
Canada431 Posts
August 31 2011 19:50 GMT
#10767
On September 01 2011 04:37 eshlow wrote:
Razith:

http://web.archive.org/web/20100128052519/http://www.fitnessspotlight.com/2008/6/4/nutrition-101-the-one-rule-to-remember/

Eat real foods. Don't eat processed foods.

Fruits, vegetables, nuts, seeds, meat, birds, fish, eggs, spices, herbs.

As long as you eat good quality foods it doesn't matter if you skip meals, or eat 10 meals a day with snacks.


Thanks! I already eat pretty clean now. Usually for breakfast I have eggs and toast, lunch is some sort of meat + vegetable and dinner usually is chicken, brown rice, salad and corn. Breakfast is pretty consistent, but lunch and dinner the meat / vegetables can change, but its all fresh and home made.

Thanks for the advice. I'll keep doing what I have been then as it has been showing great results. I'm just relieved to hear the quantity and timings don't really matter as long as I get the right amount each day (skipping breakfast always had me worried as well as eating a large dinner).

I also forgot to ask earlier. What about the calories in alcohol, like beer and rum? How should I be counting those into my daily calorie intake? Just like any other drink / food? If I'm going to be drinking a lot one night, should I be making room to fit that in? It sounds funny putting it that way, but I'm serious.. if I drink 7-8 beers in a night, should I be considering that 'dinner'? haha!
infinity21 *
Profile Blog Joined October 2006
Canada6683 Posts
August 31 2011 19:55 GMT
#10768
On September 01 2011 04:50 Razith wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 01 2011 04:37 eshlow wrote:
Razith:

http://web.archive.org/web/20100128052519/http://www.fitnessspotlight.com/2008/6/4/nutrition-101-the-one-rule-to-remember/

Eat real foods. Don't eat processed foods.

Fruits, vegetables, nuts, seeds, meat, birds, fish, eggs, spices, herbs.

As long as you eat good quality foods it doesn't matter if you skip meals, or eat 10 meals a day with snacks.


Thanks! I already eat pretty clean now. Usually for breakfast I have eggs and toast, lunch is some sort of meat + vegetable and dinner usually is chicken, brown rice, salad and corn. Breakfast is pretty consistent, but lunch and dinner the meat / vegetables can change, but its all fresh and home made.

Thanks for the advice. I'll keep doing what I have been then as it has been showing great results. I'm just relieved to hear the quantity and timings don't really matter as long as I get the right amount each day (skipping breakfast always had me worried as well as eating a large dinner).

I also forgot to ask earlier. What about the calories in alcohol, like beer and rum? How should I be counting those into my daily calorie intake? Just like any other drink / food? If I'm going to be drinking a lot one night, should I be making room to fit that in? It sounds funny putting it that way, but I'm serious.. if I drink 7-8 beers in a night, should I be considering that 'dinner'? haha!

This should help out
http://www.leangains.com/2010/07/truth-about-alcohol-fat-loss-and-muscle.html

Basically, drink hard liquor instead of beer ( I love beer). If you're gonna drink a glass or two, count that towards your calories. If you're gonna drink a lot, you gotta prep for it beforehand.
Official Entusman #21
eshlow
Profile Joined June 2008
United States5210 Posts
August 31 2011 19:55 GMT
#10769
On September 01 2011 04:50 rEiGN~ wrote:
I'm guessing meat packed in protective gas (or vacuum?) isn't a perfect choice. Too bad that's the only remotely cheap option around here.


Well, there's some evidence in the studies that say that processed meats have increase risk of cancer et al. As long as there's no processing of the meat (e.g. adding preservatives, etc.) it should be fine.

For example, uncured bacon (I believe you can find stuff like that in places like Trader joes, or locally owned farms) like steak is pretty good. But the processed bacon you can buy in supermarket stores isn't that great.

Canning the food isn't necessarily bad. Canned tuna etc. is actually pretty good (as long as it doesn't have significant amounts of mercury and such).
Overcoming Gravity: A Systematic Approach to Gymnastics and Bodyweight Strength
rEiGN~
Profile Joined September 2010
369 Posts
August 31 2011 19:55 GMT
#10770
On September 01 2011 04:50 Razith wrote:
I also forgot to ask earlier. What about the calories in alcohol, like beer and rum? How should I be counting those into my daily calorie intake? Just like any other drink / food? If I'm going to be drinking a lot one night, should I be making room to fit that in? It sounds funny putting it that way, but I'm serious.. if I drink 7-8 beers in a night, should I be considering that 'dinner'? haha!


http://www.leangains.com/2010/07/truth-about-alcohol-fat-loss-and-muscle.html
TL.net Stream Viewer Count http://goo.gl/ahf1E
dudeman001
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States2412 Posts
August 31 2011 19:57 GMT
#10771
On September 01 2011 04:50 Razith wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 01 2011 04:37 eshlow wrote:
Razith:

http://web.archive.org/web/20100128052519/http://www.fitnessspotlight.com/2008/6/4/nutrition-101-the-one-rule-to-remember/

Eat real foods. Don't eat processed foods.

Fruits, vegetables, nuts, seeds, meat, birds, fish, eggs, spices, herbs.

As long as you eat good quality foods it doesn't matter if you skip meals, or eat 10 meals a day with snacks.


Thanks! I already eat pretty clean now. Usually for breakfast I have eggs and toast, lunch is some sort of meat + vegetable and dinner usually is chicken, brown rice, salad and corn. Breakfast is pretty consistent, but lunch and dinner the meat / vegetables can change, but its all fresh and home made.

Thanks for the advice. I'll keep doing what I have been then as it has been showing great results. I'm just relieved to hear the quantity and timings don't really matter as long as I get the right amount each day (skipping breakfast always had me worried as well as eating a large dinner).

I also forgot to ask earlier. What about the calories in alcohol, like beer and rum? How should I be counting those into my daily calorie intake? Just like any other drink / food? If I'm going to be drinking a lot one night, should I be making room to fit that in? It sounds funny putting it that way, but I'm serious.. if I drink 7-8 beers in a night, should I be considering that 'dinner'? haha!

Beer and rum are calories that don't do anything for you, that's the problem. 500 calories of veggies gives you so many vitamins whereas 500 calories of beer gets you drunk (or buzzed haha). I'd say count the calories into your caloric intake just like anything else. But I don't think I need to be the one to tell you that drinking beer gives you basically no nutrition.
Sup.
eshlow
Profile Joined June 2008
United States5210 Posts
August 31 2011 19:57 GMT
#10772
On September 01 2011 04:50 Razith wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 01 2011 04:37 eshlow wrote:
Razith:

http://web.archive.org/web/20100128052519/http://www.fitnessspotlight.com/2008/6/4/nutrition-101-the-one-rule-to-remember/

Eat real foods. Don't eat processed foods.

Fruits, vegetables, nuts, seeds, meat, birds, fish, eggs, spices, herbs.

As long as you eat good quality foods it doesn't matter if you skip meals, or eat 10 meals a day with snacks.


Thanks! I already eat pretty clean now. Usually for breakfast I have eggs and toast, lunch is some sort of meat + vegetable and dinner usually is chicken, brown rice, salad and corn. Breakfast is pretty consistent, but lunch and dinner the meat / vegetables can change, but its all fresh and home made.

Thanks for the advice. I'll keep doing what I have been then as it has been showing great results. I'm just relieved to hear the quantity and timings don't really matter as long as I get the right amount each day (skipping breakfast always had me worried as well as eating a large dinner).

I also forgot to ask earlier. What about the calories in alcohol, like beer and rum? How should I be counting those into my daily calorie intake? Just like any other drink / food? If I'm going to be drinking a lot one night, should I be making room to fit that in? It sounds funny putting it that way, but I'm serious.. if I drink 7-8 beers in a night, should I be considering that 'dinner'? haha!


I would personally have you cut out the bread and possibly the rice too. But that's generally fine with most of the foods being good quality.

See infinity's post on leangains alcohol above. That's probably what you would put in the excessive quantity of alcohol though... I don't see anything wrong with a couple of drinks though.
Overcoming Gravity: A Systematic Approach to Gymnastics and Bodyweight Strength
DoubleZee
Profile Joined July 2010
Canada556 Posts
August 31 2011 20:08 GMT
#10773
Had a pretty weak workout yesterday, I couldn't do my final set of squats at 185, failed my last 2 press reps, and didn't have time to do deadlift. My form was pretty bad on a few reps as well. Not eating well and skipping workouts is bad! I'm going to overdose on meat and milk today and come back tomorrow with some fire in my eyes!

squats: 145 1x5 2x5 185
press 95 2x5 105 1x3
Just think of how stupid the average person is, and then realize half of them are even stupider!
Razith
Profile Joined February 2011
Canada431 Posts
August 31 2011 20:14 GMT
#10774
Ok what I read about alcohol pretty much summed up what I do already. I'll just make sure I eat really clean those days and not to eat garbage while I'm drinking. Plus its not often that I binge drink, but some nights its a must haha. Thanks for all the information everyone.
exShikari
Profile Joined December 2010
Australia237 Posts
August 31 2011 20:20 GMT
#10775
On August 31 2011 22:36 Sinep wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 31 2011 17:44 exShikari wrote:
On August 31 2011 16:41 Sinep wrote:
On August 31 2011 15:12 exShikari wrote:
On August 30 2011 22:34 Mereel wrote:
hi guys,
i try to lose some weight because im not happy in my current situation.
i read the opening post about cardio but it seems not the right way to lose weight. it focus mainly on nutrition.

and there is the problem. i dont really know when to eat what to lose weight. i know the general rule is less carb more protein. i tried that now for some days and its really hard to find good compensators for the heavy carb amount i eat before.

what im currently eating:
breakfast: muesli with fruits (oat flakes+dried berrys, no sugar)
Inbetween: maybe some bread...dont know, thats the hardest part^^
Lunch: something with low carb, mostly chicken with vegetables or something along the line
Inbetween: salad with ewe's cheese, paprika and yogurt (i dont like oil and vinegar dressing)
Dinner: no dinner, maybe some lowfat quark or vegetables

not sure if sleep time or general eating time plays a role in losing weight but it definitely not shows any result till now.
+ i do half an hour cardio training on my homebike.

i try to lose at least 3 kilos, from 63 to 60

The amount of food you eat isn't as important as what you're actually eating. If you eat too little you're body is going to conserve that energy ie turn it to fat.

Go for wholemeal pasta/rice over white, and same with bread go for multigrain over white. If you don't already, start using low-fat milks and yoghurts too. If you want to snack on something between meals have some fruit or a handful of nuts. You shouldn't be skipping dinner, eating regular smaller meals is better than having two large ones a day. Aim to have at least two cups of greens a day, and make sure to drinky plenty of water, about 2L/day.

Also sleep does play a factor, you should try and get seven hours a night. Eating times don't matter really as long as you keep a routine. Hell, I have breakfast at 9pm, lunch at 3am and dinner at 6am. The joys of night shift haha

Hope this helps


The amount of food is the only important thing. If you eat too low calories, the only thing that happens is that your weight loss will be a higher % of muscle: fat lost. Eating only 300 kcal a day will absolutely not be stored as fat, that's a bullshit myth that's been clinically disproved.

"Regular smaller meals" is also bullshit. It doesn't matter how you eat the calories, it has no effect on your metabolism either way. Do whatever works for you.
I also believe that sleep is completely irrelevant to weight loss. Basically, it's kcal in vs kcal out, regardless of how you sleep. Obviously you need sleep for other reasons, but I don't think there's any need to stress it for weight loss reasons.

@Mereel. If I were you, I would skip the breakfast completely and make all your meals some type of meat or other good protein source. Drop the cereal and bread for weight loss. Your lunch is a good example of the kind of thing you should be eating more of.



What I mean by the amount of food is more what is in it, not the physical size of the meals. You could have three meal of filler crap, or you could have one balanced meal that will provide the same nutrients.

Regular meals isn't bullshit either. True, it doesn't matter really if you eat two large or six small meals a day for your overall caloric intake and doesn't effect your metabolism too much, but if you are eating regularly through the day you're less likely to eat other snacks/too much when you do decide to eat.

Also breakfast is the worst meal to skimp on. High fibre meals will help you lose weight, that's why I suggest wholemeal pasta and bread. White pasta IS bad for weight loss, but high fibre foods like vegetables are not. Telling him to not eat carbs is stupid, the best way to lose weight is to have a balanced diet and exercise regularly. Which is why sleeping is important also, nobody feels like exercising when they've had inadequate sleep.


Weight loss isn't about nutrients. It's about calories. He's not asking how to be healthy, he's asking how to lose weight. Breakfast is the best meal to skip for weight loss (and there's a remarkable amount of clinical evidence that points towards health as well). High fibre meals won't help you lose weight directly. If you ate the same kcal amount of whole grain pasta as you did of white pasta, there would be no difference in weight loss. A calorie is a calorie for weight loss, regardless of whatever nutrients may be found in it. Your idea of "having a balanced diet and exercising regularly" is a great way as a lifestyle to live as a healthy person and maintain a weight perhaps, but weight loss needs more than that. For weight loss, if your calories are on point then you don't even need to lift a finger, exercise isn't required although it can be a catalyst in the process. I don't know what kind of experience you have in dieting, but some of the things you are saying definitively do not have fat loss in mind.

Are you fucking serious? You need to be healthy to lose weight. That should go without saying. Wholemeal is unbelievably better for you than white pasta/bread, yes I do mean for fat loss. Most of the carbs in white pasta are high GI, and holy shit guess what? Insulin spikes, so the body slows its metabolism = turns that energy to fat. Wholemeal is low GI so you don't have that problem. Even if you eat the same caloric value of each, wholemeal is going to yield better results because less of it is getting converted to fat.
It is, in the end, whatever the Hell I want it to be, And when I'm through with it, it's gonna blow a hole, This wide, straight through the worlds own idea of itself. They're throwing bottles at your house. Come on, lets go break their arms.
infinity21 *
Profile Blog Joined October 2006
Canada6683 Posts
August 31 2011 20:26 GMT
#10776
omnomnom
Official Entusman #21
dudeman001
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States2412 Posts
August 31 2011 20:32 GMT
#10777
On September 01 2011 05:26 infinity21 wrote:
omnomnom

Popcorn is so fucking delicious. I miss that stuff
Sup.
glurio
Profile Joined April 2010
Germany597 Posts
August 31 2011 20:35 GMT
#10778
While high fibre food/low GI food is better for your insulin, it still comes only secondary to calorie in < calorie out.
If you eat too much calories from high fibre stuff you still won't lose fat.
Theres nothing against an after workout insulin spike, since it's a great anabolic hormone.
Tbh i think the whole insulin sensitivity thing is for most people completely overblown.
Whether you think you can, or think you can't, you're right. - Henry Ford
exShikari
Profile Joined December 2010
Australia237 Posts
August 31 2011 20:37 GMT
#10779
On September 01 2011 00:09 eshlow wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 31 2011 15:12 exShikari wrote:
On August 30 2011 22:34 Mereel wrote:
hi guys,
i try to lose some weight because im not happy in my current situation.
i read the opening post about cardio but it seems not the right way to lose weight. it focus mainly on nutrition.

and there is the problem. i dont really know when to eat what to lose weight. i know the general rule is less carb more protein. i tried that now for some days and its really hard to find good compensators for the heavy carb amount i eat before.

what im currently eating:
breakfast: muesli with fruits (oat flakes+dried berrys, no sugar)
Inbetween: maybe some bread...dont know, thats the hardest part^^
Lunch: something with low carb, mostly chicken with vegetables or something along the line
Inbetween: salad with ewe's cheese, paprika and yogurt (i dont like oil and vinegar dressing)
Dinner: no dinner, maybe some lowfat quark or vegetables

not sure if sleep time or general eating time plays a role in losing weight but it definitely not shows any result till now.
+ i do half an hour cardio training on my homebike.

i try to lose at least 3 kilos, from 63 to 60

The amount of food you eat isn't as important as what you're actually eating. If you eat too little you're body is going to conserve that energy ie turn it to fat.

Go for wholemeal pasta/rice over white, and same with bread go for multigrain over white. If you don't already, start using low-fat milks and yoghurts too. If you want to snack on something between meals have some fruit or a handful of nuts. You shouldn't be skipping dinner, eating regular smaller meals is better than having two large ones a day. Aim to have at least two cups of greens a day, and make sure to drinky plenty of water, about 2L/day.

Also sleep does play a factor, you should try and get seven hours a night. Eating times don't matter really as long as you keep a routine. Hell, I have breakfast at 9pm, lunch at 3am and dinner at 6am. The joys of night shift haha

Hope this helps


Don't eat lots of carbs. Not good for weight loss.

Get rid of pastas, rice, breads, cereals, IMO get rid of milk or drink whole fat. Water is preferable though. Eat more proteins and healthy fats.

Sleep is good.

Show nested quote +
On August 31 2011 17:44 exShikari wrote:
On August 31 2011 16:41 Sinep wrote:
On August 31 2011 15:12 exShikari wrote:
On August 30 2011 22:34 Mereel wrote:
hi guys,
i try to lose some weight because im not happy in my current situation.
i read the opening post about cardio but it seems not the right way to lose weight. it focus mainly on nutrition.

and there is the problem. i dont really know when to eat what to lose weight. i know the general rule is less carb more protein. i tried that now for some days and its really hard to find good compensators for the heavy carb amount i eat before.

what im currently eating:
breakfast: muesli with fruits (oat flakes+dried berrys, no sugar)
Inbetween: maybe some bread...dont know, thats the hardest part^^
Lunch: something with low carb, mostly chicken with vegetables or something along the line
Inbetween: salad with ewe's cheese, paprika and yogurt (i dont like oil and vinegar dressing)
Dinner: no dinner, maybe some lowfat quark or vegetables

not sure if sleep time or general eating time plays a role in losing weight but it definitely not shows any result till now.
+ i do half an hour cardio training on my homebike.

i try to lose at least 3 kilos, from 63 to 60

The amount of food you eat isn't as important as what you're actually eating. If you eat too little you're body is going to conserve that energy ie turn it to fat.

Go for wholemeal pasta/rice over white, and same with bread go for multigrain over white. If you don't already, start using low-fat milks and yoghurts too. If you want to snack on something between meals have some fruit or a handful of nuts. You shouldn't be skipping dinner, eating regular smaller meals is better than having two large ones a day. Aim to have at least two cups of greens a day, and make sure to drinky plenty of water, about 2L/day.

Also sleep does play a factor, you should try and get seven hours a night. Eating times don't matter really as long as you keep a routine. Hell, I have breakfast at 9pm, lunch at 3am and dinner at 6am. The joys of night shift haha

Hope this helps


The amount of food is the only important thing. If you eat too low calories, the only thing that happens is that your weight loss will be a higher % of muscle: fat lost. Eating only 300 kcal a day will absolutely not be stored as fat, that's a bullshit myth that's been clinically disproved.

"Regular smaller meals" is also bullshit. It doesn't matter how you eat the calories, it has no effect on your metabolism either way. Do whatever works for you.
I also believe that sleep is completely irrelevant to weight loss. Basically, it's kcal in vs kcal out, regardless of how you sleep. Obviously you need sleep for other reasons, but I don't think there's any need to stress it for weight loss reasons.

@Mereel. If I were you, I would skip the breakfast completely and make all your meals some type of meat or other good protein source. Drop the cereal and bread for weight loss. Your lunch is a good example of the kind of thing you should be eating more of.



What I mean by the amount of food is more what is in it, not the physical size of the meals. You could have three meal of filler crap, or you could have one balanced meal that will provide the same nutrients.

Regular meals isn't bullshit either. True, it doesn't matter really if you eat two large or six small meals a day for your overall caloric intake and doesn't effect your metabolism too much, but if you are eating regularly through the day you're less likely to eat other snacks/too much when you do decide to eat.

Also breakfast is the worst meal to skimp on. High fibre meals will help you lose weight, that's why I suggest wholemeal pasta and bread. White pasta IS bad for weight loss, but high fibre foods like vegetables are not. Telling him to not eat carbs is stupid, the best way to lose weight is to have a balanced diet and exercise regularly. Which is why sleeping is important also, nobody feels like exercising when they've had inadequate sleep.


Regular meals to stoke metabolism is a myth. See the studies here:

http://www.leangains.com/2010/10/top-ten-fasting-myths-debunked.html

High fiber does very little for weight loss compared to low carb.

Low carb consistently outperforms low fat in regards to weight loss in the SCIENTIFIC LITERATURE. And is healthy.

I never said anything about stoking metabolism. I said regular meals will make you less likely to snack on other things throughout the day. Cutting milk out is also a bad idea, it's where most people get the majority of their calcium from.

Low carb diets are not the way to go. Ketosis is not a good thing.
It is, in the end, whatever the Hell I want it to be, And when I'm through with it, it's gonna blow a hole, This wide, straight through the worlds own idea of itself. They're throwing bottles at your house. Come on, lets go break their arms.
eshlow
Profile Joined June 2008
United States5210 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-31 20:39:46
August 31 2011 20:39 GMT
#10780
AGAIN, eating high quality foods (fruits, vegetables, nuts, seeds, meat, fish, birds, eggs) naturally lowers kcals and is healthy and easy enough to lose weight.

I too believe insulin is overblown; however, it depends on IF it is overblown in a particular person due to metabolic dysfunction.

This is particularly why I, as well as many others in this thread, recommend Paleo for weight loss. High quality nutrients, reduction in overall calories, elimination of potential allergens/inflammatory agents (wheat/grains, dairy, legumes, etc.), and reduction of O6 oils and fructose.

And best of all, easy to follow.
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