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On June 23 2011 07:21 Siretu wrote:
$5? That's like 1/3 of a lunch for me. I'll probably buy this. Especially with all the hate and dislike coming from this thread. Who cares if it's entirely fact based? It's fictional. That's kind of the definition.
I read fast(2~ pages / minute when I concentrate) so this should be a matter of hours of what I am pretty sure will be enjoyed time. Even if it's not, I haven't wasted a lot of money and I'll gladly show my support to e-sport fiction any day.
As people mentioned, describing the actual SC2 battles is not easy but from what I read in the sample chapters, you do a good job. Keep up the good work!
Thanks! I don't mind the criticism, I expected as much. Much like writing a Star Wars novel, someone is going to take issue with the way you write about [Topic x]
Hope you enjoy it!
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and there will be a swedish version , pöwned, aswell? 
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On June 23 2011 06:50 ErikaMitchell wrote:I think you could use a nicer word than second rate. Maybe, clearly this is my first book?
Sure, I guess there are nicer words, but that is what I do feel. I don't read much pulp fiction, but the few authors that I do read have much more effective writing styles. Obviously I don't expect Shakespeare from anyone, but there is a level of competency that I feel is achieved in all respected published material and not in the samples that I read.
I'll echo what I explained in an above reply. I don't think I could genuinely convey the lifestyle of an actual progamer. I've watched a lot of streams, spent a lot of time on Reddit. I know a lot about the community, but in the end I had to write a character I could relate to, or it would be pretty disingenuous
That's a fair statement. If you feel that you couldn't have portrayed this character as anything else without sounding false, then you made the right decision. I was more commenting on the stereotype that I previously described. Most people in society see it negatively, and I think it's more than fair to say that most (if not all) of the professional players that both you and I watch are not like that. If eSports is to grow in legitimacy, then this image has to either be re-cast in a favourable light in the eyes of society, or eliminated altogether; otherwise, the players will be seen as basement-dwellers rather than "athletes" in the traditional sense.
As far as the games go, my husband did the fight choreography. A lot of the games were taken straight out of the GSL, and I know especially with Polt.Prime's Bio performance at GSL, no one is doing much of a mech style TvP these days, but it is used on occasion.
My criticism of the actual Starcraft is mainly based on the established trends in the game - other than LiquidJinro using it once, I've never either seen or heard of a professional player using a mech style in TvP. Whether the fights are bio or mech, however, is not really important to the market outside of eSports followers. Being an eSports fan, it does somewhat bother me, but not enough that I discard your work altogether.
The picture of Sean comes a lot from Day[9] who usually has crazy hair going, and often times a few pizza boxes in the background on the daily. This may be more of a college student thing than a gamer thing, but the imagery worked for me
Nothing wrong with either crazy hair or pizza, but it's the gamer stereotype which comes in here as well. I kind of touched on that above.
As far as errors go, I still find errors in third editions of Dresden Files books, and I love me some Jim Butcher. I think they happen, but I can't afford the kind of editor who keeps them to a minimum. And finally, thank you for taking the time to read the samples and communicate. Sales so far look like they are better outside the eSports community, which is good because it accomplishes my goal of helping to spread eSports, but it'd make me happy if the community embraced it more. Hopefully once a few people have read it we'll get some good feedback on the thread and see how it goes
I agree, errors do happen. In fact, I discovered that I had mis-spelled the word "water" as "watrr" two separate times when I was walking to hand in my graduate thesis a few years ago.
However, the errors in your samples were frequent and obvious, which significantly degrades the overall quality of your writing. I think most of them could have been discovered in a cursory read-through, and I was surprised to find that many errors in the final draft of actual published work.
I completely understand sales being better outside of the established eSports community, because many of the things that I've mentioned wouldn't irritate them. As you've said, I think it would be really cool to have a work that was well received by both eSports fans and the public, and I think the things I've mentioned would go a long way towards satisfying the people inside the current community.
Good luck in the rest of your writing career.
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On June 23 2011 06:07 HyperionDreamer wrote:
In the case of this book, I was reading the first few paragraphs and I kept thinking "Why doesn't this Protoss player just make three Immortals and kill the entire tank line? Why is this Terran going mech in TvP? Why is this amazing American gamer practicing for the GSL in team games?"
First of all, a protoss player can't make three immortals and simply march them into a choke to kill a bunch of sieged tanks. I agree that it's odd that a terran is going mech in TvP, but it's not like we haven't seen it before. Perhaps because it's a team game, and his mech can help deal with the other races as well? I also think it's strange that someone is practicing for the GSL in team games. But remember, this is in the first chapter of the book. This scene, despite the fact that it might not be entirely realistic, establishes certain facts about Sean's personality and introduces characters in a way that an account of a ladder game couldn't do.
I agree that the scene isn't completely realistic. The point of my response is simply to point out that the situation might not be as simple as it seems at first glance, and that the team game aspect does play an important role in setting up the novel.
Edit:
[QUOTE]On June 23 2011 07:44 HyperionDreamer wrote:
[QUOTE]On June 23 2011 06:50 ErikaMitchell wrote:
[quote]
As far as the games go, my husband did the fight choreography. A lot of the games were taken straight out of the GSL, and I know especially with Polt.Prime's Bio performance at GSL, no one is doing much of a mech style TvP these days, but it is used on occasion.
[/quote]
My criticism of the actual Starcraft is mainly based on the established trends in the game - other than LiquidJinro using it once, I've never either seen or heard of a professional player using a mech style in TvP. Whether the fights are bio or mech, however, is not really important to the market outside of eSports followers. Being an eSports fan, it does somewhat bother me, but not enough that I discard your work altogether.
.[/QUOTE]
There have actually been a few other instances of Terrans meching against Protoss. Before Thors were nerfed (the patch came after the book was written), a lot of Terrans were experimenting with mass Thor builds. Famously, ThorZain did it to defeat MC in the TSL3 semi-finals. Once again, I agree with you that it's a bit odd, but it's not unheard of.
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On June 23 2011 06:50 ErikaMitchell wrote:
As far as errors go, I still find errors in third editions of Dresden Files books, and I love me some Jim Butcher. I think they happen, but I can't afford the kind of editor who keeps them to a minimum.
Isn't your publisher supposed to take care of getting your book edited before actually publishing it ?
Are you getting a vanity publication ? Because it sounds like it.
I think the whole thing reads like you tried too hard to put in references and geeky stuff that would cater to your target audience. I find it cheesy and not well written.
But you know what ? I'd probably enjoy reading it, like some guilty pleasure movie I'd watch because it connects to something I love (The Wizard comes to mind).
Keep on writing and congratulations on actually finishing a manuscript !
Good or bad, it's more than most of the "wannabe writers" will ever achieve.
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Papua New Guinea1055 Posts
On June 22 2011 04:26 ErikaMitchell wrote:
PWNED: The best book about Starcraft 2 gamers you haven't read yet. Ego trippin much?
Would surely check it out if there were a translation or at least a native sale, since I'm a big enemy of e-books.
On a second thought tho, after reading the sample it seems pretty forced and fake. Seems like a story written by someone that has no clue about the world he/she's trying to describe. Just my personal thoughts, no hating. It's still pretty cool that someone actually makes an attempt like that.
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On June 23 2011 07:56 Silfurstar wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2011 06:50 ErikaMitchell wrote:
As far as errors go, I still find errors in third editions of Dresden Files books, and I love me some Jim Butcher. I think they happen, but I can't afford the kind of editor who keeps them to a minimum.
Isn't your publisher supposed to take care of getting your book edited before actually publishing it ? Are you getting a vanity publication ? Because it sounds like it. I think the whole thing reads like you tried too hard to put in references and geeky stuff that would cater to your target audience. I find it cheesy and not well written. But you know what ? I'd probably enjoy reading it, like some guilty pleasure movie I'd watch because it connects to something I love (The Wizard comes to mind). Keep on writing and congratulations on actually finishing a manuscript ! Good or bad, it's more than most of the "wannabe writers" will ever achieve.
Yes, but that doesn't mean it was a GOOD editor. First time authors don't get a lot of attention 
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It's just too forced. And the writing leaves a lot to be desired. However, it is an interesting idea. The biggest problem that I see is that it won't really appeal to the 'hardcore' fans of sc2, nor the masses. So who is the intended audience?
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I wish you luck with your book and any future publications, but I feel your writing style, and especially your content (FBI story? :/ ) could use improving.
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On June 23 2011 08:08 ErikaMitchell wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2011 07:56 Silfurstar wrote:On June 23 2011 06:50 ErikaMitchell wrote:
As far as errors go, I still find errors in third editions of Dresden Files books, and I love me some Jim Butcher. I think they happen, but I can't afford the kind of editor who keeps them to a minimum.
Isn't your publisher supposed to take care of getting your book edited before actually publishing it ? Are you getting a vanity publication ? Because it sounds like it. I think the whole thing reads like you tried too hard to put in references and geeky stuff that would cater to your target audience. I find it cheesy and not well written. But you know what ? I'd probably enjoy reading it, like some guilty pleasure movie I'd watch because it connects to something I love (The Wizard comes to mind). Keep on writing and congratulations on actually finishing a manuscript ! Good or bad, it's more than most of the "wannabe writers" will ever achieve. Yes, but that doesn't mean it was a GOOD editor. First time authors don't get a lot of attention
If a publisher cares about your book and wants to push it, he'll do good work on it. At least in french publishing, that's how it goes.
The only times I've seen obvious poor editing work was in the case of vanity press (the author actually pays to get his book published, gets a percentage on every sale and hopes that it sells enough for him to break even).
Are you in this situation ?
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the Dagon Knight4001 Posts
I am tempted to purchase a copy, that I might stream myself reading it.
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On June 23 2011 08:37 SirJolt wrote:
I am tempted to purchase a copy, that I might stream myself reading it.
Lol. That's very Andy Kaufman of you.
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On June 23 2011 08:08 ErikaMitchell wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2011 07:56 Silfurstar wrote:On June 23 2011 06:50 ErikaMitchell wrote:
As far as errors go, I still find errors in third editions of Dresden Files books, and I love me some Jim Butcher. I think they happen, but I can't afford the kind of editor who keeps them to a minimum.
Isn't your publisher supposed to take care of getting your book edited before actually publishing it ? Are you getting a vanity publication ? Because it sounds like it. I think the whole thing reads like you tried too hard to put in references and geeky stuff that would cater to your target audience. I find it cheesy and not well written. But you know what ? I'd probably enjoy reading it, like some guilty pleasure movie I'd watch because it connects to something I love (The Wizard comes to mind). Keep on writing and congratulations on actually finishing a manuscript ! Good or bad, it's more than most of the "wannabe writers" will ever achieve. Yes, but that doesn't mean it was a GOOD editor. First time authors don't get a lot of attention
Erika, I don't mean to be insulting but stop calling yourself a first-time author. You're not. You're an aspiring writer. You can call yourself an author after you get a book deal from a legit publishing house. Your claim of being an author is a slap in the face to the many, many writers who strive for years honing their craft and imagination to achieve actual success. There's a reason self-publishing and vanity publishing are considered faux pas in the writing world. And pretty much any editor would consider it a giant red flag if you mentioned such a publication in a query letter.
Trying to market yourself on a site where it's obvious the vast majority of people have no idea how to distinguish the difference between a vanity pub and a legit pub is somewhat facetious, which is probably why Chef is so critical of you.
To Chef: 250 words constitutes the standard "page" in the publishing world. Any house can distort the actual page count to whatever the hell they want using font changes, spacing, etc just like you mentioned. My point is that it's kind of retarded to try to guesstimate what her paperback page count should be. That's why nobody does it. They just go by word count. And as such, a 75K book is not far off the mark. Average range for a novel runs from 80k to 100k.
P.S. You never answered whether your book was published or not. Why would you use your own book as an example if it wasn't in print somewhere? That seems like a much more terrible example than mine, considering Harry Potter is in print at 300+ pages on the bookshelves. Can I find your 96k word book somewhere on a shelf at 200+ pages?
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the Dagon Knight4001 Posts
On June 23 2011 08:43 ErikaMitchell wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2011 08:37 SirJolt wrote:
I am tempted to purchase a copy, that I might stream myself reading it. Lol. That's very Andy Kaufman of you.
I'm going to need you to be direct with me here Erika, is this permission?
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That is the most absolute retarded story synopsis I've ever heard.
It just sounds like you've tried to throw in as many catch phrases as you could to appeal to a nerdier audience instead of actually writing an interesting book.
User was temp banned for this post.
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On June 23 2011 07:28 ErikaMitchell wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2011 07:21 Siretu wrote:
$5? That's like 1/3 of a lunch for me. I'll probably buy this. Especially with all the hate and dislike coming from this thread. Who cares if it's entirely fact based? It's fictional. That's kind of the definition.
I read fast(2~ pages / minute when I concentrate) so this should be a matter of hours of what I am pretty sure will be enjoyed time. Even if it's not, I haven't wasted a lot of money and I'll gladly show my support to e-sport fiction any day.
As people mentioned, describing the actual SC2 battles is not easy but from what I read in the sample chapters, you do a good job. Keep up the good work! Thanks! I don't mind the criticism, I expected as much. Much like writing a Star Wars novel, someone is going to take issue with the way you write about [Topic x] Hope you enjoy it!
teamliquid is the most elitist and ego driven community in the world. we have very high standards compared to even the toughest critics. check out the survey threads and you'll see the type of people you are really dealing with.
cheer up and take it with a grain of salt. from the sample chapters, your book is actually well written and the general idea that it is actually a thriller goes way over the heads of the fact-driven starcraft evangelists around here that only care that jinro meched twice in GSL january.
i will definitely purchase for the read, but also to support first time authors that show an interest in such a niche genre.
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On June 22 2011 17:03 Cel.erity wrote:
From what I read of the writing itself, I'm going to give you some very constructive criticism, from one writer to another: use less adjectives. Adjectives and adverbs are powerful descriptive tools, but reliance on them often shows insecurity in your writing ability, and it seems that you use them in a rather overabundance. Once you describe the character as having curly hair, or whatever, you don't really need to address him later in the book by saying that "His curly locks swayed majestically in the breeze as his feet carried him with unyielding swiftness to the coffee shop". There are more elegant ways of getting your point across. Try getting inside the head of your main character rather than reiterating what a random passerby might see if they were looking at him for the first time. You're creating a distance from your character with phrases like these.
This is what I'm talking about right here. The fact that the whole thing (that I've seen) reads like an itinerary of the guys day to day life... with no interesting thoughts or characteristics for us to attach us to it him. Couple these two things together. There is scarcely a noun that is not preceded by 3 or 4 fluffy adjectives. Its just too much.
It's like those birthday cakes, when you go to your 3yo nephew's birthday party, that are made of like 80% that fluffy, overly sweet icing in huge globs and in bright colors, with only a few crumbs of the chocolate cake itself to eat... that's exactly what it's like. It's just too much fluff.
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I see a lot of male readers here (to be expected, really). The book reads like it's written for a predominantly female audiences (if you ever accidently picked up one of those paperbags with scantily dressed ladies clutching on the shoulder of a muscular guy, mistaking it for a porn, you know what I mean),
I suppose the author been a woman is one of the reasons why the book is written this way, but kudo to you for actually sat down and write it all up.
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On June 23 2011 11:21 cursor wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2011 17:03 Cel.erity wrote:
From what I read of the writing itself, I'm going to give you some very constructive criticism, from one writer to another: use less adjectives. Adjectives and adverbs are powerful descriptive tools, but reliance on them often shows insecurity in your writing ability, and it seems that you use them in a rather overabundance. Once you describe the character as having curly hair, or whatever, you don't really need to address him later in the book by saying that "His curly locks swayed majestically in the breeze as his feet carried him with unyielding swiftness to the coffee shop". There are more elegant ways of getting your point across. Try getting inside the head of your main character rather than reiterating what a random passerby might see if they were looking at him for the first time. You're creating a distance from your character with phrases like these. This is what I'm talking about right here. The fact that the whole thing (that I've seen) reads like an itinerary of the guys day to day life... with no interesting thoughts or characteristics for us to attach us to it him. Couple these two things together. There is scarcely a noun that is not preceded by 3 or 4 fluffy adjectives. Its just too much. It's like those birthday cakes, when you go to your 3yo nephew's birthday party, that are made of like 80% that fluffy, overly sweet icing in huge globs and in bright colors, with only a few crumbs of the chocolate cake itself to eat... that's exactly what it's like. It's just too much fluff.
Or you could just call it amateur writing.
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Read the sample chapters. Definitely amateur writing, not worth $5, IMO.
Sorry, I'm generally positive about starcraft fan art, but this book is bad (based on the available samples). Further, self-publishing is not the same thing as having a real publishing house with a professional editor work on your book. You seem to not grasp this, which is obnoxious to literary nerds like myself. Don't give up on writing though -- try getting a story published in one of the many amateur literary 'zines (a greater accomplishment for an aspiring author than self-publishing) or do some writing workshops. And definitely don't give up on writing about SC2 -- I think it's a great concept.
You might get a better response if you were to more honestly present your material as amateur writing (eg, on a fanfic site), instead of trying to charge money for it.
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EPT
