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Forum Index > The Shopkeeper′s Inn
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onlywonderboy
Profile Joined August 2012
United States23745 Posts
June 08 2015 17:17 GMT
#103141
On June 09 2015 02:13 TheYango wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 09 2015 00:54 Fusilero wrote:
Megaman starforce is probably the epitome of capcom's shamelessness, they basically made another battle network a series that had given up on innovation after the first game and then proceeded to not change it from battle network in any meaningful way while making a series out of it.

This is really underselling the Battle Network series a lot. The second and 3rd entries in the series definitely made many meaningful improvements to the gameplay formula (at least, no less than Pokemon does from entry to entry). 4 and 5 were kind of just bad games, but 6 radically changed the basic gameplay to be the most refined in the entire series.

Really though, I feel like the Battle Network series was a little before its time. The game would be a lot more engaging with online multiplayer, and would probably be much more popular now with the current "collectible gaming" craze than it was in its own time.

With regard to Starforce, it wasn't that it didn't innovate--rather, it tried to do so in all the wrong ways. They dumbed down gameplay elements in ways that didn't actually make the game simpler or more accessible, and so ended up with a game that was just as complex, but didn't have any of the depth or engagement of it's predecessors.

Yeah except you would probably have to do microtransaction to buy new chips, ew.

Battle Network 3 was my shit back in the day, I recently just thought about going back to play in on an emulator.
RIP Ryan Davis / TL or Die / @onlywonderboy
WaveofShadow
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada31495 Posts
June 08 2015 17:18 GMT
#103142
On June 09 2015 02:13 TheYango wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 09 2015 00:54 Fusilero wrote:
Megaman starforce is probably the epitome of capcom's shamelessness, they basically made another battle network a series that had given up on innovation after the first game and then proceeded to not change it from battle network in any meaningful way while making a series out of it.

This is really underselling the Battle Network series a lot. The second and 3rd entries in the series definitely made many meaningful improvements to the gameplay formula (at least, no less than Pokemon does from entry to entry). 4 and 5 were kind of just bad games, but 6 radically changed the basic gameplay to be the most refined in the entire series.

Really though, I feel like the Battle Network series was a little before its time. The game would be a lot more engaging with online multiplayer, and would probably be much more popular now with the current "collectible gaming" craze than it was in its own time.

With regard to Starforce, it wasn't that it didn't innovate--rather, it tried to do so in all the wrong ways. They dumbed down gameplay elements in ways that didn't actually make the game simpler or more accessible, and so ended up with a game that was just as complex, but didn't have any of the depth or engagement of it's predecessors.

I agree with the MMBN analysis with the added response of 'if it ain't broke, don't fix it.' I think I would have played MMBN 1-14 even if they continued on the way 1-3 were. The minor innovations were nice/cute and all, but the gameplay (and to a way lesser extent, story) throughout was solid and it were what made the games, similar to the original MM series. You can actually see that many of the later games in MM series were way less popular than the original few because of how far they deviated. (MM6 v MM2, MMX7 v MMX2)
twitch.tv/waveofshadow ||| Winner of AHGL's So You Think You Can Cast! ||| Juicy Dad for lyfe ||| 'idk i get a kick out of stupid things' - Jarms Yarng
Carnivorous Sheep
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
Baa?21247 Posts
June 08 2015 17:19 GMT
#103143
On June 09 2015 02:07 WaveofShadow wrote:
I'd like to think I could perform a routine pretty easily if someone wrote the material for me.


"I can do this job if someone did the majority of the hard work for me."
TranslatorBaa!
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
June 08 2015 17:20 GMT
#103144
On June 09 2015 02:18 WaveofShadow wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 09 2015 02:13 TheYango wrote:
On June 09 2015 00:54 Fusilero wrote:
Megaman starforce is probably the epitome of capcom's shamelessness, they basically made another battle network a series that had given up on innovation after the first game and then proceeded to not change it from battle network in any meaningful way while making a series out of it.

This is really underselling the Battle Network series a lot. The second and 3rd entries in the series definitely made many meaningful improvements to the gameplay formula (at least, no less than Pokemon does from entry to entry). 4 and 5 were kind of just bad games, but 6 radically changed the basic gameplay to be the most refined in the entire series.

Really though, I feel like the Battle Network series was a little before its time. The game would be a lot more engaging with online multiplayer, and would probably be much more popular now with the current "collectible gaming" craze than it was in its own time.

With regard to Starforce, it wasn't that it didn't innovate--rather, it tried to do so in all the wrong ways. They dumbed down gameplay elements in ways that didn't actually make the game simpler or more accessible, and so ended up with a game that was just as complex, but didn't have any of the depth or engagement of it's predecessors.

I agree with the MMBN analysis with the added response of 'if it ain't broke, don't fix it.' I think I would have played MMBN 1-14 even if they continued on the way 1-3 were. The minor innovations were nice/cute and all, but the gameplay (and to a way lesser extent, story) throughout was solid and it were what made the games, similar to the original MM series. You can actually see that many of the later games in MM series were way less popular than the original few because of how far they deviated. (MM6 v MM2, MMX7 v MMX2)

I'm pretty miffed that the MMBN1 re-release on the NDS never made it out of Japan.

Granted, it was a Starforce crossover game, but that pretty much makes it the only good thing to come out of the Starforce series.
Moderator
onlywonderboy
Profile Joined August 2012
United States23745 Posts
June 08 2015 17:20 GMT
#103145
Steam Sale starts June 11th. Prepare accordingly.
+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]
RIP Ryan Davis / TL or Die / @onlywonderboy
AlterKot
Profile Blog Joined January 2014
Poland7525 Posts
June 08 2015 17:23 GMT
#103146
I wish stand-up was a thing around here
Americans don't like to use unblockables, it is considered not honest. You press a button at the wrong time and hit the other person, you are random, not a top player. You DP Sim's far fierce, it is random and not honest.
JonGalt
Profile Joined February 2013
Pootie too good!4331 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-06-08 17:24:59
June 08 2015 17:23 GMT
#103147
Being on stage I have no qualms with. I have always wanted to do it but just haven't taken the time. I'm starting to jot stuff down instead of being productive at work.

I have no recording but when I do go to an open Mic night I'll try and record myself.

But thanks for all the advice/info. I just need to focus and flesh out a routine instead of it floating in my head.

#FREEcomedy
LiquidLegends StaffWho is Jon Galt?
Frolossus
Profile Joined February 2010
United States4779 Posts
June 08 2015 17:27 GMT
#103148
On June 09 2015 02:17 onlywonderboy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 09 2015 02:13 TheYango wrote:
On June 09 2015 00:54 Fusilero wrote:
Megaman starforce is probably the epitome of capcom's shamelessness, they basically made another battle network a series that had given up on innovation after the first game and then proceeded to not change it from battle network in any meaningful way while making a series out of it.

This is really underselling the Battle Network series a lot. The second and 3rd entries in the series definitely made many meaningful improvements to the gameplay formula (at least, no less than Pokemon does from entry to entry). 4 and 5 were kind of just bad games, but 6 radically changed the basic gameplay to be the most refined in the entire series.

Really though, I feel like the Battle Network series was a little before its time. The game would be a lot more engaging with online multiplayer, and would probably be much more popular now with the current "collectible gaming" craze than it was in its own time.

With regard to Starforce, it wasn't that it didn't innovate--rather, it tried to do so in all the wrong ways. They dumbed down gameplay elements in ways that didn't actually make the game simpler or more accessible, and so ended up with a game that was just as complex, but didn't have any of the depth or engagement of it's predecessors.

Yeah except you would probably have to do microtransaction to buy new chips, ew.

Battle Network 3 was my shit back in the day, I recently just thought about going back to play in on an emulator.

the battle network franchise is easily my favorite capcom one behind maybe phoenix wright.
3 and 6 were so fucking good
WaveofShadow
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada31495 Posts
June 08 2015 17:28 GMT
#103149
On June 09 2015 02:19 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 09 2015 02:07 WaveofShadow wrote:
I'd like to think I could perform a routine pretty easily if someone wrote the material for me.


"I can do this job if someone did the majority of the hard work for me."

I'm not sure how you think written material is all there is to performance.
twitch.tv/waveofshadow ||| Winner of AHGL's So You Think You Can Cast! ||| Juicy Dad for lyfe ||| 'idk i get a kick out of stupid things' - Jarms Yarng
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-06-08 17:32:06
June 08 2015 17:30 GMT
#103150
OWB, you definitely should give BN3 another go. Having replayed the series in the last 2 years, 3 definitely holds up. Pretty much my only complaint about it is that you can't finish the post-game without linking to the other game (you have to get the chips from the other game in order to face the Omega Navis).

On June 09 2015 02:27 Frolossus wrote:
the battle network franchise is easily my favorite capcom one behind maybe phoenix wright.
3 and 6 were so fucking good

lol I went to Wikipedia to look up Capcom franchises to contest this statement.

Ghosts 'n' Goblins is another great franchise that Capcom hasn't done anything with recently.
Moderator
WaveofShadow
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada31495 Posts
June 08 2015 17:32 GMT
#103151
On June 09 2015 02:30 TheYango wrote:
OWB, you definitely should give BN3 another go. Having replayed the series in the last 2 years, 3 definitely holds up. Pretty much my only complaint about it is that you can't finish the post-game without linking to the other game (you have to get the chips from the other game in order to face the Omega Navis).

Show nested quote +
On June 09 2015 02:27 Frolossus wrote:
the battle network franchise is easily my favorite capcom one behind maybe phoenix wright.
3 and 6 were so fucking good

lol I went to Wikipedia to look up Capcom franchises to contest this statement.

Ghosts 'n' Goblins is another great franchise that Capcom hasn't done anything with recently.

Or like....ever
twitch.tv/waveofshadow ||| Winner of AHGL's So You Think You Can Cast! ||| Juicy Dad for lyfe ||| 'idk i get a kick out of stupid things' - Jarms Yarng
Carnivorous Sheep
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
Baa?21247 Posts
June 08 2015 17:33 GMT
#103152
On June 09 2015 02:28 WaveofShadow wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 09 2015 02:19 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
On June 09 2015 02:07 WaveofShadow wrote:
I'd like to think I could perform a routine pretty easily if someone wrote the material for me.


"I can do this job if someone did the majority of the hard work for me."

I'm not sure how you think written material is all there is to performance.


I said majority not entirety didn't I?
TranslatorBaa!
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-06-08 17:34:48
June 08 2015 17:34 GMT
#103153
On June 09 2015 02:32 WaveofShadow wrote:
Or like....ever

Well apparently it got some PSP/iOS releases in the last decade.

But when the iOS games get this:
For both games, Capcom offered optional additional microtransactions designed to decrease the difficulty of the game. These included such options as to enable unlimited lives, increase the power and durability of weapons and armor, grant new abilities such as a triple jump, or remove traps and simplify stages. Reviews praised this method of optional DLC designed solely to assist the player as opposed to selling additional game content.

You know what to expect.
Moderator
onlywonderboy
Profile Joined August 2012
United States23745 Posts
June 08 2015 17:37 GMT
#103154
On June 09 2015 02:34 TheYango wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 09 2015 02:32 WaveofShadow wrote:
Or like....ever

Well apparently it got some PSP/iOS releases in the last decade.

But when the iOS games get this:
Show nested quote +
For both games, Capcom offered optional additional microtransactions designed to decrease the difficulty of the game. These included such options as to enable unlimited lives, increase the power and durability of weapons and armor, grant new abilities such as a triple jump, or remove traps and simplify stages. Reviews praised this method of optional DLC designed solely to assist the player as opposed to selling additional game content.

You know what to expect.

lol Capcom.
RIP Ryan Davis / TL or Die / @onlywonderboy
WaveofShadow
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada31495 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-06-08 17:39:12
June 08 2015 17:38 GMT
#103155
On June 09 2015 02:33 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 09 2015 02:28 WaveofShadow wrote:
On June 09 2015 02:19 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
On June 09 2015 02:07 WaveofShadow wrote:
I'd like to think I could perform a routine pretty easily if someone wrote the material for me.


"I can do this job if someone did the majority of the hard work for me."

I'm not sure how you think written material is all there is to performance.


I said majority not entirety didn't I?

I know being smug is kinda your thing and all, but you're really minimizing and belittling the effort anyone puts forth into a routine when performance doesn't come naturally to them. This includes acting as well---I don't think the majority of the hard work in acting is the writing of the screenplay otherwise everybody would pull off a flawless King Lear.
twitch.tv/waveofshadow ||| Winner of AHGL's So You Think You Can Cast! ||| Juicy Dad for lyfe ||| 'idk i get a kick out of stupid things' - Jarms Yarng
WaveofShadow
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada31495 Posts
June 08 2015 17:42 GMT
#103156
Hey Yangers, maybe non-shit Limited play is on its way!
https://www.facebook.com/Hearthstone/posts/919623194747116
twitch.tv/waveofshadow ||| Winner of AHGL's So You Think You Can Cast! ||| Juicy Dad for lyfe ||| 'idk i get a kick out of stupid things' - Jarms Yarng
jcarlsoniv
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
United States27922 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-06-08 17:43:32
June 08 2015 17:42 GMT
#103157
On June 09 2015 02:23 JonGalt wrote:
Being on stage I have no qualms with. I have always wanted to do it but just haven't taken the time. I'm starting to jot stuff down instead of being productive at work.

I have no recording but when I do go to an open Mic night I'll try and record myself.

But thanks for all the advice/info. I just need to focus and flesh out a routine instead of it floating in my head.

#FREEcomedy


If you need someone to listen to/critique some stuff, I wouldn't mind doing a skype call if you want to practice delivery and shit.

On June 09 2015 02:28 WaveofShadow wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 09 2015 02:19 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
On June 09 2015 02:07 WaveofShadow wrote:
I'd like to think I could perform a routine pretty easily if someone wrote the material for me.


"I can do this job if someone did the majority of the hard work for me."

I'm not sure how you think written material is all there is to performance.


+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]
Soniv ||| Soniv#1962 ||| @jcarlsoniv ||| The Big Golem ||| Join the Glorious Evolution. What's your favorite aminal, a bear? ||| Joe "Don't call me Daniel" "Soniv" "Daniel" Carlsberg LXIX ||| Paging Dr. John Shadow
Frolossus
Profile Joined February 2010
United States4779 Posts
June 08 2015 17:47 GMT
#103158
i remember my only real complaint about battle network was how frequently you had to do the parts as Lan were you had to look for some computer that was literally behind a building or in a rock or something to jack into and find a literal backdoor to a network. without internet guide i would've gotten stuck on so many parts of the story.


i think battle network would work amazingly well on a cell phone these days x:
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
June 08 2015 17:50 GMT
#103159
IDK I hate touch screen controls for most action games.
Moderator
Seuss
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States10536 Posts
June 08 2015 17:51 GMT
#103160
On June 09 2015 02:17 TheYango wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 09 2015 01:53 Seuss wrote:
Sonic Adventure was actually very well received initially. The problem wasn't the direction, it was the floundering that followed. It's very easy for an established franchise that's doing well to take a misstep, lose it's balance, and enter a death spiral of increasingly desperate and ill-conceived attempts to right itself. This is especially true when it's in new hands.

The death of Sonic happened well before the release of Sonic Adventure. The inability for Sega to release a good flagship Sonic title for the Sega Saturn contributed to the loss of faith in Sega as a whole, both for their consoles, as well as for Sonic.

Sonic Adventure/Adventure 2 were the last ditch effort to keep Sega's grip on the console market alive. They're generally well received, but as a whole, fan impressions of Sega were already shot with the successive failures of both the Sega 32x and the Sega Saturn, compounded with the lack of a good Sonic game.


That fair, but I don't think it diminishes what I'm trying to say. Sonic's death spiral, whatever the exact form and details, is unique only in the same sense as snowflakes are unique. There is still a pattern, other franchises have followed it in the past, and there's nothing that indicates any franchise (let alone Megaman) is immune to its effects.
"I am not able to carry all this people alone, for they are too heavy for me." -Moses (Numbers 11:14)
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