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On June 28 2014 10:42 PrinceXizor wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2014 10:36 wei2coolman wrote:
Let's say. There is a Team A, and there's a Team B.
Player A is currently signed on for Team A for 5 years. Contract would be similar to cellphone contract, if you leave this contract before 5 years, gotta fork up a fee. So if Team B wants to acquire Player A, they either have to just buy over the entire contract from Team A, or have Player A break contract with Team A, and resign new contract with Player A (if they want a new contract).
Vice versa would happen. If Team A wanted to drop Player A, they would have to pay the fee of dropping his contract, or just opt to not field him but pay out the rest of his contract.
So a strong contract would prevent a lot of these shenanigans you guys are talking about, unfortunately esports still sort of in it's infancy so it's probably pretty hard for players and teams alike to hire legal teams to create strong contracts. if the teams are in complete control over their players, then there would be professional ringers. a player who is top at his position would make more money as a mercenary than as a contracted player. if say Player A and B are the best 2 mid players in the world if they sold their services to 6 TI4 teams, playing against eachother if needed, they stand to make much more money than if they were on only a single team. contracts have to be agreed upon by both sides. besides we don't KNOW the players contracts, usually they will involve some exclusivity. but Excalibur isn't even under contract. so even if the organization could pick, they were lobbying for a player not even under contract to be able to take the place of a contracted player.
And that's where I'm talking about scene stability, if there were just as much stable money equally throughout the rest of the year, then teams and players would favor longer strong contracts, where having a stable roster is more favorable.
Also, if you watch major sports, the best players were usually franchise players.
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On June 28 2014 10:45 wei2coolman wrote:
And that's where I'm talking about scene stability, if there were just as much stable money equally throughout the rest of the year, then teams and players would favor longer strong contracts, where having a stable roster is more favorable.
Also, if you watch major sports, the best players were usually franchise players.
and even the best players will go where they think they have the best chance to win or make money, even opting out of say 24 million dollars a year for the next two years in order to do so. the amount of money that would have to be in play for that kind of stability is far above what the sport of dota makes as a whole. the only way to ensure stability of the labor/talent of professional players, is to offer them enough money to make it worth while for them to continue through their entire contract, OR have a monopoly on the entire sport to force labor/talent costs low enough that if they want to continue to play professionally they have to accept the terms.
one is impossible, and one valve views as undesirable and negative.
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Don't you think that's a result of inflating the prizepool for a singular tournament that happens once a year....?
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Is PayDay 2 any good?
also c25k run update, made the 25min run. feels good man.
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On June 28 2014 11:03 wei2coolman wrote:
Don't you think that's a result of inflating the prizepool for a singular tournament that happens once a year....?
There's still been nearly 2 million in prize money(the site most commonly cited is missing tourneys I know happened, but the listed number is ~1.8mil). Now, you can say 'only top finishers get that' and that's true, but the top finishers have hardly been the same 3 teams or anything, and then there's whatever the player contracts are(rumor says that DK players make 6 figures in USD).
If you go from last TI to this TI, there's going to be almost 3 mil in prize money(so count the post TI3 2013 tourneys, and include the upcoming ESL event) given out that isn't from The International.
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On June 28 2014 11:13 red_ wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2014 11:03 wei2coolman wrote:
Don't you think that's a result of inflating the prizepool for a singular tournament that happens once a year....? There's still been nearly 2 million in prize money(the site most commonly cited is missing tourneys I know happened, but the listed number is ~1.8mil). Now, you can say 'only top finishers get that' and that's true, but the top finishers have hardly been the same 3 teams or anything, and then there's whatever the player contracts are(rumor says that DK players make 6 figures in USD). If you go from last TI to this TI, there's going to be almost 3 mil in prize money(so count the post TI3 2013 tourneys, and include the upcoming ESL event) given out that isn't from The International.
that's still not stable income...
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On June 28 2014 11:25 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2014 11:13 red_ wrote:On June 28 2014 11:03 wei2coolman wrote:
Don't you think that's a result of inflating the prizepool for a singular tournament that happens once a year....? There's still been nearly 2 million in prize money(the site most commonly cited is missing tourneys I know happened, but the listed number is ~1.8mil). Now, you can say 'only top finishers get that' and that's true, but the top finishers have hardly been the same 3 teams or anything, and then there's whatever the player contracts are(rumor says that DK players make 6 figures in USD). If you go from last TI to this TI, there's going to be almost 3 mil in prize money(so count the post TI3 2013 tourneys, and include the upcoming ESL event) given out that isn't from The International. that's still not stable income...
Maybe not for 16 teams like the combined LCS's, but it's probably pretty stable for the top 8 or so that are swapping around the podium finishes(when taking into account that they almost certainly have individual salaries as well).
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On June 28 2014 11:43 red_ wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2014 11:25 wei2coolman wrote:On June 28 2014 11:13 red_ wrote:On June 28 2014 11:03 wei2coolman wrote:
Don't you think that's a result of inflating the prizepool for a singular tournament that happens once a year....? There's still been nearly 2 million in prize money(the site most commonly cited is missing tourneys I know happened, but the listed number is ~1.8mil). Now, you can say 'only top finishers get that' and that's true, but the top finishers have hardly been the same 3 teams or anything, and then there's whatever the player contracts are(rumor says that DK players make 6 figures in USD). If you go from last TI to this TI, there's going to be almost 3 mil in prize money(so count the post TI3 2013 tourneys, and include the upcoming ESL event) given out that isn't from The International. that's still not stable income... Maybe not for 16 teams like the combined LCS's, but it's probably pretty stable for the top 8 or so that are swapping around the podium finishes(when taking into account that they almost certainly have individual salaries as well).
don't forget korean teams.
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On June 28 2014 11:50 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2014 11:43 red_ wrote:On June 28 2014 11:25 wei2coolman wrote:On June 28 2014 11:13 red_ wrote:On June 28 2014 11:03 wei2coolman wrote:
Don't you think that's a result of inflating the prizepool for a singular tournament that happens once a year....? There's still been nearly 2 million in prize money(the site most commonly cited is missing tourneys I know happened, but the listed number is ~1.8mil). Now, you can say 'only top finishers get that' and that's true, but the top finishers have hardly been the same 3 teams or anything, and then there's whatever the player contracts are(rumor says that DK players make 6 figures in USD). If you go from last TI to this TI, there's going to be almost 3 mil in prize money(so count the post TI3 2013 tourneys, and include the upcoming ESL event) given out that isn't from The International. that's still not stable income... Maybe not for 16 teams like the combined LCS's, but it's probably pretty stable for the top 8 or so that are swapping around the podium finishes(when taking into account that they almost certainly have individual salaries as well). don't forget korean teams.
The Korean teams exist outside of Riot's 'system.' Why would I include them in a debate about Riot funded salaries vs tournament winnings?
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On June 28 2014 11:12 wei2coolman wrote:
Is PayDay 2 any good?
also c25k run update, made the 25min run. feels good man.
I really enjoyed PD2, but you need a group to play with
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Scip talking mad shit, offer up a sc2 1v1 banned from TL match. He quickly backs down. I am all that is man
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On June 28 2014 12:21 Shelke14 wrote:
Scip talking mad shit, offer up a sc2 1v1 banned from TL match. He quickly backs down. I am all that is man
Just shows that EU can't perform when it matters. ALL BARK NO BITE FURRY LOVER.
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Czech Republic11293 Posts
On June 28 2014 12:21 Shelke14 wrote:
Scip talking mad shit, offer up a sc2 1v1 banned from TL match. He quickly backs down. I am all that is man
you're too alpha for me what can I do
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scip just a betamale asshole
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Me being the Canadian hero that I am. Having not played SC2 in over a year, Scip says he hasn't either but won't gimme his battlenet account name so I can check....
I find out his battlenet account and look to see he has played in the last three months. Classic Euro trash
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Playing DnD and my friend critical fails.... 3 times in a row.
It was glorious.
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United States15536 Posts
On June 28 2014 12:50 Frudgey wrote:
Playing DnD and my friend critical fails.... 3 times in a row.
It was glorious.
"You attack the goblin warrior... and trip... and land on your knife... and get syphilis."
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United States47024 Posts
Best possible team, means having a team where they can bootcamp without having to worry that one of their players is going to have another psychological break. Teams should have a solid control of their roster, and field who they think are going to give the best performance.
This is the word it keeps coming to.
For better or for worse, Valve's stance is essentially that "the team" as an entity outside of the 5 players that comprise it is meaningless. The "Fnatic DotA" that got invited to TI is not "the team the Fnatic organization chooses to send to the International", but "the team comprised of H4nni, Era, Trixi, N0tail and Fly that qualified for TI4 based on their exemplary performance as a team together". From their perspective, the "team" exists for the players, not the other way round.
You can argue for days whether you feel this attitude is valid, but there isn't really enough evidence either way for you to damn Valve's approach. Honestly it just feels like you're trying to find a way to use this to hate on DotA 2 when there's really much for or against it in this.
Amusingly, Riot had this exact same stance at one point. It's just that over the last 2 seasons, Riot's stance towards organizations and towards players has radically changed as the LCS system has evolved.
On June 28 2014 10:26 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2014 10:24 PrinceXizor wrote:On June 28 2014 10:20 wei2coolman wrote:
I understand that, and that's why in my original comment it's understandable that under the circumstances of Valve's contract with players and teams, that they're in the right.
But, having it set up like that is a bit silly imo. Seems the best way to handle it to me. the amount of ringers that could exist in TI if players could switch players before the tournament and it was organization based would be ridiculous. Hell Dendi and Arteezy are better than Era too, maybe Fnatic could offer them some of the prize money to play for them as well as their own teams. "dendi and arteezy are our subs". The real question is, why aren't teams already established with strong contracts with these players? meaning, if you want to leave this team with in this binding contract, here's the fee, now fork up the cash.
In Excaliber's case, the reason he isn't contracted is because it's never been the precedent in DotA for teams to contract a bunch of subs that will virtually never play any games most of the time.
Honestly, it's not like you can say the reverse precedent does a huge amount of good for LoL (where a bunch of teams have a huge handful of subs that rot on the bench).
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Czech Republic11293 Posts
Omg I was abnned from the Ship server for killing innocents
I just got an axe and camped in the bathroom and killed everyone and then all of a fucking sudden I've been banned for 60 minutes
are you kidding me
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EPT
