[NA IHs] Running at Dusk - Page 64

On September 05 2013 06:23 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:
And yes, you can carry a game as support, just not in the conventional sense. I've been trying to explain lategame support to a buddy of mine who mains it, and he still says weird things, like when I tell him he really needs oracles because we're super ahead and have ashe/ahri/nautilus to catch people out, so we need to control vision in their jungle, and he says stuff like "thats the jungler's job, i can't afford it" and buys Frozen Heart because he's been running bot by himself every time a wave is at the river

Once your team is ahead, it's your job to secure map control so your team can close out the game. this is entirely contextual information, because when and how aggressively you can ward depends on the relative strength of your jungler and theirs, and your laners as well. As a support in lategame, you should be looking to do one of two things:

1) Your team is ahead in gold/objectives and can win skirmishes/teamfights. You should be warding aggressively to give your team map control. You want to create a situation where it is risky for the other team to step into their own jungle to take camps/buffs because you have vision of it and they don't, through your use of oracles/pinks/wards. The later the game goes, the more impact someone getting caught will have, and you can turn stray catches into objectives.

2) Your team is behind in gold/objectives and probably can't win a teamfight without favourable conditions. You should be warding for safety, so your team can secure its own buffs and jungle camps and catch up. If you can see them entering your jungle early, you've bought your team more time to react. The more opportunity you give your team to notice and react to the opponents being brave in your jungle, the more likely your team is to catch them out and turn the game around. That's exactly what a team that is behind needs, and you as the support need to focus on trying to create that situation

On September 05 2013 07:19 Zdrastochye wrote:


Warding isn't carrying. To carry you have to do damage. You can make plays for days and get them all stunned for 5 seconds and be a MLGPRO42noscope but you need your carries to do the damage required. I agree that a good support can make the game so easy for his team to win the game, but even if you do everything right and engage with your team and time every buff and do everything that you want from a support, you can still lose because as a support you're not doing damage.

Maybe I have too rigid of an idea of what carrying is, but I associate carrying with being able to actually do a bit of damage, and in particular being able to kill their high dps targets who need to die. Put Madlife on a team of bronze 5s, and he still won't carry (maybe). You still need that [insert fed solo laners here] to use his abilities.

On September 05 2013 07:45 Ketara wrote:
Carrying to me just means playing so well that you win the game despite other people on your team making costly mistakes. If everybody is doing their job and nobody is fucking up too badly, then nobody in particular is carrying the game.

I think if Madlife was on a team of Bronze 5's he'd probably carry the game just fine, even from the support role.

On September 05 2013 08:05 Zdrastochye wrote:
I should have specified that analogy, in a team full of bronze 5, vs a team full of plats, even though he is much better than anyone playing that game, they'd still lose if he went support because he is playing a role that doesn't enable him to carry because he's prioritizing helping his team over killing the other.

On September 05 2013 08:11 Ketara wrote:
That's not the right way to look at support.

I feel like a lot of the time in a lot of lanes, whether or not the carry gets kills in the early game is because of the support. If you're a challenger tier support in a bronze game you can pick an aggressive support like Leona or Alistar or something like that, force fights and get kills onto your AD.

You're still thinking of carrying in terms of being "the guy who does all the damages" and not the guy who makes his team win the game. There's more to winning the game than just killing the enemy team. That's a big reason why Riot wants to get away from the ADC term to describe a role.

You can't tell me you've never had a game where some support Leona is constantly making plays bot and her MF or Vayne or whatever is 8/0 inside of 10 minutes. That's not the MF carrying the game, that's Leona making plays and carrying MF. Also probably the enemy bot lane being clueless. MF goes on to be the one who gets all the glory in teamfights and win the game, but from that point she's so far ahead that she can play brainless and still win. It's the support that got her there.

On September 04 2013 14:40 Pooshlmer wrote:
I'm starting to understand how bullshit Sona is. I whiffed multiple ults, got caught multiple times warding badly, lost all map control, then got one perfect ult at the end and it completely turned the game around. I mean, the team had to carry me to that point but it's very DOTA like without anything to really counter it. So binary.

On September 05 2013 08:21 Pooshlmer wrote:


And you think Faker would carry this? I don't.

On September 05 2013 11:02 Thermia wrote:


It would be quite possible for Faker playing mid to carry; he would have to snowball really hard on a proper champ but if he was killing his lane + jungler early and then started roaming early enough he could have a realistic shot at winning anyway.

On September 05 2013 11:14 RagequitBM wrote:

The conversation was about playing support I believe. In which case I agree. I don't think faker could carry as support, but could as mid. Which is basically that persons point.

On September 05 2013 11:24 Pooshlmer wrote:
I really don't see how even a 10-0 faker is going to beat a team of 5 plats who are going to feed on top and bottom. They are facing bronzes who will be close to nonentities in teamfights.

On September 05 2013 12:12 seRapH wrote:

You overestimate how good plat players are

On September 05 2013 12:43 Seuss wrote:


I propose a test. You find four Bronze players with at least 50 games played in ranked and a Diamond willing to try to carry them, and I'll assemble a team of five Platinum players. We can put the matter to rest.