• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 21:17
CEST 03:17
KST 10:17
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Team Liquid Map Contest #22: Results and Winners7Code S Season 2 (2026): RO4 and Finals Preview12TL.net Map Contest #22 - Voting & Ladder Map Selection7Code S Season 2 (2026) - RO8 Preview8[ASL21] Finals Preview: Two Legacies21
Community News
ZeroSpace at Steam NextFest - Last free demo16Weekly Cups (June 8-14): Clem and Solar double, PTR tested0RSL: S6 Finals played at BlizzCon 202611Douyu Cup 2026: $20,000 Legends Event (June 26-28)10[BSL22] Non-Korean Championship from 13 to 28 June4
StarCraft 2
General
StarCraft II 5.0.16 PTR Patch Notes may 26th Daily SC2 Player Grid - feedback wanted J188 – Nhà Cái Cá Cược Trực Tuyến Đẳng Cấp Châu Á Code S Season 2 (2026) - RO8 Preview TL Poll: How do you feel about the 5.0.16 PTR balance changes?
Tourneys
GSL CK #4 20-21th June Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2) Crank Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League Douyu Cup 2026: $20,000 Legends Event (June 26-28)
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
Work In Progress Melee Maps [D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3
External Content
Mutation # 530 One For All The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 529 Opportunities Unleashed Mutation # 528 Infection Detected
Brood War
General
BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Battle cruiser feet vs Carrier fleet Fact based Zerg Upgrade Tier List vespene.gg — BW replays in browser Data needed
Tourneys
CSLAN 4 is Coming! [Megathread] Daily Proleagues Small VOD Thread 2.0 The Casual Games of the Week Thread
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Relatively freeroll strategies Creating a full chart of Zerg builds Why doesn't anyone use restoration?
Other Games
General Games
ZeroSpace at Steam NextFest - Last free demo Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Path of Exile Nintendo Switch Thread ZeroSpace Megathread
Dota 2
Looking for a Dota Mentor Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia {D-2} Late to making 20.06.2026 memorable [p]94718
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread [H]Internet/Gaming Cafe Tips and Tricks The Games Industry And ATVI UK Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
The HerO Fan Club! The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books [TV/BOOK] *SPOILERS* Game of Thrones Discussion
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread McBoner: A hockey love story TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 Formula 1 Discussion Cricket [SPORT]
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread Facing Challenges in Mobile App Development
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
How To Predict Tilt in Espor…
TrAiDoS
An Exploration of th…
waywardstrategy
I'm an arrogant trash talke…
FlaShFTW
Gauntlet SC2: A Retrospectiv…
Ctone23
Why RTS gamers make better f…
gosubay
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 8105 users

The Shikyo Memorial for QQ Therapy - Page 26

Forum Index > The Shopkeeper′s Inn
Post a Reply
Prev 1 24 25 26 27 28 687 Next
HyperionDreamer
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
Canada1528 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-15 17:45:22
August 15 2011 17:34 GMT
#501
Addendum: I just realized that % magic pen (aka. void staff) won't help at all against targets who aren't building magic res.... flat pen is better since it can go negative, while % pen cant. i should have sold void staff for abyssal scepter.

not bad for someone who basically does math/physics for a living, realizing it after 500 LoL games.
BW4life! Jaedong ~ Savior ~ Shine ; "drowning sorrows in late night infomercials" - bnYsooch
spinesheath
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
Germany8679 Posts
August 15 2011 17:47 GMT
#502
In fact magic PENETRATION can never bring your target below 0 MRes. Flat or %, whatever. 0 is a hard cap for MPen.

The only way to bring an enemy to negative resistances is by stacking flat Magic Resist REDUCTION. On items: Just Abyssal Scepter. And Reduction is appled before Penetration. So without flat or % Reduction from sources like champion skills it's impossible since everyone starts at 30 MRes. % Reduction is applied before flat, btw.
If you have a good reason to disagree with the above, please tell me. Thank you.
gtrsrs
Profile Joined June 2010
United States9109 Posts
August 15 2011 17:49 GMT
#503
"elo hell doesn't exist"
"every game is winnable"
lol, the 1400s-1600s disagree

i had a baron steal into a triple at one point
couldn't stop raging janna from suiciding multiple times though (fuck highlight vids. she kept flashing into baron and ulting like that one guy did in that one video)
brand dc at about 20 didn't help either but he did come back
[image loading]
i play ... hearthstone =\^.^/= Winterfox
HyperionDreamer
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
Canada1528 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-15 17:57:55
August 15 2011 17:57 GMT
#504
On August 16 2011 02:47 spinesheath wrote:
In fact magic PENETRATION can never bring your target below 0 MRes. Flat or %, whatever. 0 is a hard cap for MPen.

The only way to bring an enemy to negative resistances is by stacking flat Magic Resist REDUCTION. On items: Just Abyssal Scepter. And Reduction is appled before Penetration. So without flat or % Reduction from sources like champion skills it's impossible since everyone starts at 30 MRes. % Reduction is applied before flat, btw.

Ah yes, this is true. Even so, I had 15% off masteries, 40% from void staff, 9 flat from masteries, and 20 flat from sorcs. So against a 30 MR target, 55% percent penetration gives you ~14 mres, and the flat from sorcs and masteries takes care of the rest of it. True damage is ftw, especially on a 600 AP ori.

Edit: why so many qss on your team? Does that work on morde ulti?
BW4life! Jaedong ~ Savior ~ Shine ; "drowning sorrows in late night infomercials" - bnYsooch
BlackPaladin
Profile Joined May 2010
United States9316 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-15 18:03:26
August 15 2011 18:03 GMT
#505
flat penetration applies before % penetration. So for 30 MR 20 mpen from boots and say 10 mpen from runes = true damage. The % pen doesn't even need to come into play.
"Your full potential does not matter if you do not use all 100% of it."
HyperionDreamer
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
Canada1528 Posts
August 15 2011 18:07 GMT
#506
So % reduction before flat reduction, % penetration after flat penetration. easy to remember riot es #1. ^_^ =D
BW4life! Jaedong ~ Savior ~ Shine ; "drowning sorrows in late night infomercials" - bnYsooch
Mogwai
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United States13274 Posts
August 15 2011 18:07 GMT
#507
On August 16 2011 02:49 gtrsrs wrote:
"elo hell doesn't exist"
"every game is winnable"
lol, the 1400s-1600s disagree

i had a baron steal into a triple at one point
couldn't stop raging janna from suiciding multiple times though (fuck highlight vids. she kept flashing into baron and ulting like that one guy did in that one video)
brand dc at about 20 didn't help either but he did come back
[image loading]

how u expect to carry with no deathcap? noob.


anyway, there are always uncarriable games, but there are fewer than most people want to say there are. Playing on smurfs and stuff has taught me that 1400 is the worst and it's like, I dunno, maybe 15-20% uncarriable games, but even that might be high.
mogwaismusings.wordpress.com
Two_DoWn
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States13684 Posts
August 15 2011 18:09 GMT
#508
My theory on "elo hell"

Given 10 games-

1 will be unwinable.
2 will be very hard to win, but possible.
2 will be you getting carried.
5 will be up for grabs.
"What is the air speed velocity of an unladen courier?" "Dire or Radiant?"
Mazer
Profile Joined April 2008
Canada1086 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-15 18:24:07
August 15 2011 18:10 GMT
#509
Yeah, was gonna chime in % penetration comes after the flat penetration. That's why a lot of games as caster I end up taking merc treads and then add a void staff later on if they stack MR. The flat pen from sorcs is really only useful during early-midgame unless they totally skip MR.

(edited for using the word reduction instead of penetration as per post below)
BlackPaladin
Profile Joined May 2010
United States9316 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-15 18:18:19
August 15 2011 18:14 GMT
#510
There is a big difference between REDUCTION and PENETRATION. (insert bad sex joke). % reduction comes BEFORE flat reduction. But flat penetration comes before % penetration.
http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Magic_Penetration

"Magic penetration and magic resistance reduction are applied in the following order:

1. Percentage Magic Resistance Reduction
2. Flat Magic Resistance Reduction
3. Flat Magic Penetration
4. Percentage Magic Penetration "

Sup. Same goes for armor.

The only % MR reduction in the entire game atm are trundle's ult, nidalee's traps, and kayle's passive. Everything else is flat reduction (abyssal scepter), flat penetration (sorc boots), or % penetration (void staff).
"Your full potential does not matter if you do not use all 100% of it."
gtrsrs
Profile Joined June 2010
United States9109 Posts
August 15 2011 18:28 GMT
#511
On August 16 2011 03:09 Two_DoWn wrote:
My theory on "elo hell"

Given 10 games-

1 will be unwinable.
2 will be very hard to win, but possible.
2 will be you getting carried.
5 will be up for grabs.


i agree with your concept but your numbers are wrong
anyone who's watched my stream will attest that it's more like

given 10 games
4 will be unwinnable
4 will be winnable but you have to carry/not make ANY mistakes
1 will be you getting carried
1 will be a close game decided by whoever gets out of position at the 50 minute mark
i play ... hearthstone =\^.^/= Winterfox
Mazer
Profile Joined April 2008
Canada1086 Posts
August 15 2011 18:37 GMT
#512
On August 16 2011 02:49 gtrsrs wrote:
"elo hell doesn't exist"
"every game is winnable"
lol, the 1400s-1600s disagree

i had a baron steal into a triple at one point
couldn't stop raging janna from suiciding multiple times though (fuck highlight vids. she kept flashing into baron and ulting like that one guy did in that one video)
brand dc at about 20 didn't help either but he did come back
[image loading]


That's a really rough game man. I've had some bad ones but I can't remember one that tragic.

I can say since hitting 1500, my teammates have almost always pulled together pre-game for a decent comp. When I was stuck in the low 1400's, it was pretty common to be missing a jungler or tank or w/e. I guess it helps that I've picked up a few new champs to help fill in the gap when need be but overall it's been better.

Still get some really dumb players in these games though. I've just been shooting for the solo lanes more in hopes that late game I will be able to carry hard.
HyperionDreamer
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
Canada1528 Posts
August 15 2011 18:40 GMT
#513
On August 16 2011 03:28 gtrsrs wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 16 2011 03:09 Two_DoWn wrote:
My theory on "elo hell"

Given 10 games-

1 will be unwinable.
2 will be very hard to win, but possible.
2 will be you getting carried.
5 will be up for grabs.


i agree with your concept but your numbers are wrong
anyone who's watched my stream will attest that it's more like

given 10 games
4 will be unwinnable
4 will be winnable but you have to carry/not make ANY mistakes
1 will be you getting carried
1 will be a close game decided by whoever gets out of position at the 50 minute mark

I'm more inclined to agree with gtr in my experience, especially the 1 game that's decided by some random guy deciding that wraiths is more important than teamfight positioning when both teams have inhibitor towers down.

When you say "getting carried" do you mean like "there's no possible way we could have won this game without our malzahar" or "this malz did what he was supposed to do, got kills and such, but I still did OK as X champion?" I tend to really only use the term "carried" when its a total hard carry, dragging your teammates kicking and screaming to victory.
BW4life! Jaedong ~ Savior ~ Shine ; "drowning sorrows in late night infomercials" - bnYsooch
Shikyo
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Finland33997 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-15 18:49:09
August 15 2011 18:48 GMT
#514
On August 16 2011 03:28 gtrsrs wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 16 2011 03:09 Two_DoWn wrote:
My theory on "elo hell"

Given 10 games-

1 will be unwinable.
2 will be very hard to win, but possible.
2 will be you getting carried.
5 will be up for grabs.


i agree with your concept but your numbers are wrong
anyone who's watched my stream will attest that it's more like

given 10 games
4 will be unwinnable
4 will be winnable but you have to carry/not make ANY mistakes
1 will be you getting carried
1 will be a close game decided by whoever gets out of position at the 50 minute mark

Hey at least now you'll understand me. Seeing Saintvicious only go like 6-3 at 1400 elo made me feel a bit better about myself.

I think you forgot the games where you lose because:

*pings baron* *teammate says GOTTA BUY* *Fight, aced, they get baron, lose*
League of Legends EU West, Platinum III | Yousei Teikoku is the best thing that has ever happened to music.
gtrsrs
Profile Joined June 2010
United States9109 Posts
August 15 2011 18:54 GMT
#515
On August 16 2011 03:40 HyperionDreamer wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 16 2011 03:28 gtrsrs wrote:
On August 16 2011 03:09 Two_DoWn wrote:
My theory on "elo hell"

Given 10 games-

1 will be unwinable.
2 will be very hard to win, but possible.
2 will be you getting carried.
5 will be up for grabs.


i agree with your concept but your numbers are wrong
anyone who's watched my stream will attest that it's more like

given 10 games
4 will be unwinnable
4 will be winnable but you have to carry/not make ANY mistakes
1 will be you getting carried
1 will be a close game decided by whoever gets out of position at the 50 minute mark

I'm more inclined to agree with gtr in my experience, especially the 1 game that's decided by some random guy deciding that wraiths is more important than teamfight positioning when both teams have inhibitor towers down.

When you say "getting carried" do you mean like "there's no possible way we could have won this game without our malzahar" or "this malz did what he was supposed to do, got kills and such, but I still did OK as X champion?" I tend to really only use the term "carried" when its a total hard carry, dragging your teammates kicking and screaming to victory.


in my scenario, the "1 will be you getting carried" relates to your last sentence. these games are ones where you can go 1-9 and still win because your malzahar is pobelter's smurf or some shit. your bot lane ryze + vayne combo goes 10-0 in lane and it's over, even though you died to wraiths twice. that's getting carried to me

the "4 will be winnable..." relates to your first set-up, where your teammates are competent but equally matched to your opponents. if you fuck up, your teammates won't be able to carry you. but if you win your lane and don't do dumb stuff, you have a good shot at winning
i play ... hearthstone =\^.^/= Winterfox
r.Evo
Profile Joined August 2006
Germany14081 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-15 19:00:09
August 15 2011 18:57 GMT
#516
On August 16 2011 03:28 gtrsrs wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 16 2011 03:09 Two_DoWn wrote:
My theory on "elo hell"

Given 10 games-

1 will be unwinable.
2 will be very hard to win, but possible.
2 will be you getting carried.
5 will be up for grabs.


i agree with your concept but your numbers are wrong
anyone who's watched my stream will attest that it's more like

given 10 games
4 will be unwinnable
4 will be winnable but you have to carry/not make ANY mistakes
1 will be you getting carried
1 will be a close game decided by whoever gets out of position at the 50 minute mark


Worse players = higher variance.
Higher variance = more stress.
More stress = less consistency.

Actually I really think the main issue people have in the 1400-1600 range (me included when I'm playing around that elo) is the problem that they don't play their A-Game often enough.

EVERY SINGLE TIME you are in champ select and have thoughts like "Uh, let's hope xy" / "That xy last game..." / "Rofl that comment that guy has to suck" you are not playing your A-Game.
(Same for being happy about a kill or angry about a death. Being emotional is you not playing your A-Game. Period.)


I'm still not sure why exactly but LoL is like 600% more likely to get me somewhat tilty than losing x-thousand $$ in a day of poker ever did.

I assume it's the combination of:
-No communication (and there I mean e.g. "Oh, I thought he will do xy but did blabla instead") resulting in failcascades.
-People dragging rage and negativity from 10 games into their current one and letting off steam on people for no reason.
-The rather high volume most people put in which means "losing" and "winning" become important values for them.
-The general ego-related stuff. The ability to blame everything on everyone but yourself let's egos become huge. Dunning-Kruger effect hi.


SORRY FOR DERAILING THE QQ THREAD. =P

/end rant.
"We don't make mistakes here, we call it happy little accidents." ~Bob Ross
HyperionDreamer
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
Canada1528 Posts
August 15 2011 19:00 GMT
#517
Ok, I've never actually been 100% full on carried in a solo queue game before, so please excuse me being unfamiliar with the concept.

Hotshot contributing to the 4 unwinnable right now on stream, going 3x dblades TF in bot lane with taric and still going 0-4.......
BW4life! Jaedong ~ Savior ~ Shine ; "drowning sorrows in late night infomercials" - bnYsooch
HazMat
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States17077 Posts
August 15 2011 19:01 GMT
#518
I just play Wriggles Tryndamere and solopush top inhibitor Nidalee style on my 1500 smurf. Never fails.
www.youtube.com/user/ShakeDrizzle | League and SSBM content creator | Armada's Youtube Editor
gtrsrs
Profile Joined June 2010
United States9109 Posts
August 15 2011 19:03 GMT
#519
every time i pick tryndamere someone afk's or trolls me because "trynd so nerfed now"
i play ... hearthstone =\^.^/= Winterfox
HyperionDreamer
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
Canada1528 Posts
August 15 2011 19:07 GMT
#520
Wow, forget hotshot contributing to the 4 unwinnable, he gets carried by 5/0/5 jungle GP..... I guess there's hope for solo queue after all, seeing someone carry hsgg that hard as he builds SoTD.
BW4life! Jaedong ~ Savior ~ Shine ; "drowning sorrows in late night infomercials" - bnYsooch
Prev 1 24 25 26 27 28 687 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Replay Cast
00:00
GSL CK #4 - Day 1
CranKy Ducklings100
EnkiAlexander 58
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
RuFF_SC2 111
Dota 2
LuMiX1
League of Legends
Doublelift6562
Counter-Strike
summit1g10424
Other Games
PiGStarcraft3070
JimRising 644
ViBE126
Livibee82
Trikslyr64
WinterStarcraft52
Nina42
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick1445
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 14 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Hupsaiya 121
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Other Games
• imaqtpie1925
• Scarra836
• Shiphtur291
Upcoming Events
WardiTV Spring Champion…
9h 43m
GSL
10h 43m
Maru vs Reynor
Lambo vs Solar
IPSL
14h 43m
Hawk vs Julia
Patches Events
15h 43m
BSL22 NKC (BSL vs China)
17h 43m
Dewalt vs Messiah
Bonyth vs Mihu
TerrOr vs XuanXuan
eOnzErG vs Messiah
Jaystar vs Mihu
Dewalt vs XuanXuan
Bonyth vs TerrOr
Replay Cast
22h 43m
WardiTV Weekly
1d 9h
Monday Night Weeklies
1d 14h
Sparkling Tuna Cup
2 days
The PondCast
3 days
[ Show More ]
Douyu Cup 2020
4 days
Oliveira vs Trap
Jieshi vs XY
soO vs FanTaSy
TY vs Coffee
Douyu Cup 2020
5 days
Neeb vs Impact
MacSed vs Cyan
Scarlett vs Kelazhur
INnoVation vs Dear
Douyu Cup 2020
6 days
Maestros of the Game
6 days
herO vs Classic
Maru vs Serral
BSL22 NKC (BSL vs China)
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-06-19
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Heroes Pulsing #2

Ongoing

IPSL Spring 2026
Acropolis #4
CSCL: Masked Kings S4
YSL S3
BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
CSL Season 21: Qualifier 1
SCTL 2026 Spring
Maestros of the Game 2
WardiTV Spring 2026
Murky Cup 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026

Upcoming

CSL Season 21: Qualifier 2
CSL 2026 Summer (S21)
CSLAN 4
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Revival: Season 6
CranK Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League
HSC XXIX
Douyu Cup 2026
BCC 2026
Light HT
Heroes Pulsing #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.