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The Shikyo Memorial for QQ Therapy - Page 251

Forum Index > The Shopkeeper′s Inn
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clickrush
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Switzerland3257 Posts
August 24 2012 14:14 GMT
#5001
EquilasH thx for the detailed response btw!
oGsMC: Zealot defense, Stalker attack, Sentry forcefieldu forcefieldu, Marauder die die
samthesaluki
Profile Joined November 2010
914 Posts
August 24 2012 14:28 GMT
#5002
On August 24 2012 22:14 h3r1n6 wrote:
When someone says something along the lines "omg fucking noob jungler gank top", I will go to their lane and hide in a brush, tell them to bait an engage, watch them die 1v1 and walk off, telling them that there was no opportunity for me to go in. I find that way more entertaining than winning a game.


genious but instead you should say remember im a noob jungler i never gank top.
Requizen
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States33802 Posts
August 24 2012 14:39 GMT
#5003
On August 24 2012 23:28 samthesaluki wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 24 2012 22:14 h3r1n6 wrote:
When someone says something along the lines "omg fucking noob jungler gank top", I will go to their lane and hide in a brush, tell them to bait an engage, watch them die 1v1 and walk off, telling them that there was no opportunity for me to go in. I find that way more entertaining than winning a game.


genious but instead you should say remember im a noob jungler i never gank top.

And remember to use smilies, always use smilies.

sorry i messed up :'(
there really wasn't much i could do to help >.<
It's your boy Guzma!
Catch]22
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Sweden2683 Posts
August 24 2012 15:00 GMT
#5004
10 games today, someone afk in EVERY ONE OF THEM, what hte fuck is up with LoL, was never like this in Dota2
Simberto
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Germany11628 Posts
August 24 2012 15:06 GMT
#5005
Actually, that was pretty much my experience with DOTA 2. I played about 10 games, none of which ended without at least one guy leaving the game at 5-10 minutes.
TheLink
Profile Joined January 2011
Australia2725 Posts
August 24 2012 15:14 GMT
#5006
+ Show Spoiler +
On August 24 2012 19:31 EquilasH wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 24 2012 17:45 clickrush wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
k guys i need some really good advice. dropped 250 elo since last week. had a couple bad games in there tbh. now under 1.4k and it feels really awkward. I have spotted a couple weaknesses in my play:

1. I don't really feel the love with alot of roles. my favs are suppor and ap carry. I would LOVE to play only support and ap. But when I dont get the ap spot I often end up not picking support because it can be extremely frustrating. Not because I think my ad carries are worse than me (there are a couple of those but most ppl are good enough for me to adapt to them for both our benefit), but because I really tilt when they misbehave, doing shitty calls, telling me what to do when etc and generally flame. There are ppl who have 'ideas' that are very far from just plain common sense. the carries that would misbehave are in 99% the carries who have big ass holes in their play like bad CS or random/stupid trading or even not trading when they could etc. I generally don't say much though.

2. I don't know how to play from behind: from sc2 I know you have to take risks to play from behind, like all-ins or greedy plays etc. turtling from behind does not work in 99% of the times against a similarly skilled or better opponent and most of the time when your behind that is the case. In LoL ppl think they can turtle their way out of the game. Mb this silly idea comes from DotA? Well in DotA you had hardcarries and you had heroes that are good at turtling. And you could actually turtle because counterwarding was way (way, way) harder and you could retain a sufficient amount of mapcontrol from behind. And also when you turtled that was your strategy from the get go. It made sense to turtle because you knew you had to anyways. That said, In LoL it generally does not make sense at all to turtle, because everything scales about the same. Alot of good players have stated that you need to make plays to come back. Nontheless ppl are playing extremely bad from behind, letting their opponents do what ever they want. I don't know what to do anymore in this situation. Generally I just try to go with the flow, but it obv does not work. How do you actually turtle in LoL so you dont fall more behind (the rabbit/turtle analogy does not work btw.)??

3. I have some issues midlane when I play against ppl who I consider 'randomly aggressive'. It is smart to do randomly aggressive stuff now and then to throw ppl off, like ulting and igniting someone when you cannot kill them, can surprise and make them focus on your lane if you want them to (your jungler is counterjungling for example). In bad matchups i sometimes play aggressive from level 1-2 just because ppl don't expect it, so they earn a bit respect and everyone is about the same at lvl 1-2 anyways. But there are players who would completely ignore the fact that there are junglers in the game. They would push like crazy and POKE ME NEAR TURRET while I try to lashit. I don't know how to freaking play against them when my jungler is in solomid-guide-route-mode and doesn't gank. Random aggression like this often leads to both us having low health very early on and bad CS, but the random guy can get away with going back to base if he doesnt get ganked and he would lose less CS/exp in the process. It makes me mad when ppl get advantages from bad play. generally the mid lane pushes right around the time when jungler has red or is at wraiths, which is why I don't do it, and in 50% of the cases you get ganked hardcore for play like this. In one of my last games I even had an opponent lee sin jungle who would flash on me near my turret just for the lulz (he got away with 5% health or sth.)
how should I react to randomly aggressive players? what can I learn from this?


1) It's a good thing that you're limiting yourself to just 2 roles.
Imo the best way to learn the game and get to a higher Elo is to literally spam one champion every game.
For example if you wanted to exclusively play Cassiopeia (this is a really good choice btw because she's strong but she's not played a lot), then you just say in champ select every game "I prefer mid - it's much better than my other roles".
The most important thing is that in the first 100 games or so just pick that champion into EVERYTHING - it doesn't matter if your team says that you're against a hard counter or whatever.
Then when you've learned everything there is to know about said champion you can start only picking it into favorable matchups or whatever.

This may sound a bit like you only improve with one champion, but from my experience that's not the case at all and you'll see a huge general improvement just because you'll slow down learning about the specific champion and you can start putting your focus elsewhere.

You could obviously also do this with support or any other role.

2) Playing from behind is actually relatively simple in the lower Elo bracket since 90% of the time the enemy team will have someone out of position - what you need to do is lead your team and try to stay as 5 MOST of the time (and then be very very careful when you're not all there), and you need to establish some sort of map control with warding etc. so you can see when someone is out of position from the other team, and at that point you'll want to do one of two things.
a) You can often catch said person in the jungle/river/whatever, but if that's not possible you can most likely do;
b) Initiate a teamfight because the other team will often be either ignorant enough to fight you 4vs5 or they will simply not notice that they're only 4 people.

Another thing about playing from behind (especially if your own lane isn't behind) is to just roam a lot and try to secure kills on the other lanes.

3) You can't do much about this except try to outplay your opponent or you can call for your jungle and hope he shows up.
Also, this is probably not the case but the random aggression could also be their mid laner knowing that your jungle isn't close to mid and he sees an opportunity to harass you down.

Also you can add me on LoL (IGN: EquilasH) if you want to ask me something more.



You sir are my hero. I love all those people who, when behind, don't buy any wards because they need to get to their next item faster to catch up somehow. Best way to catch up is to ward the shit out of everything. Unfortunately most supports (especially here on TL it seems) seem to think that if their team falls behind then its up to them to carry so they go for deathcap or something. Supports should be the first one to sacrifice their normal build for the good of the team.
Only the weak link is strong enough to break the chain.
Catch]22
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Sweden2683 Posts
August 24 2012 16:33 GMT
#5007
On August 25 2012 00:06 Simberto wrote:
Actually, that was pretty much my experience with DOTA 2. I played about 10 games, none of which ended without at least one guy leaving the game at 5-10 minutes.


So what you are saying is that when I get to ranked games, they will disappear?
Requizen
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States33802 Posts
August 24 2012 16:33 GMT
#5008
On August 25 2012 01:33 Catch]22 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 25 2012 00:06 Simberto wrote:
Actually, that was pretty much my experience with DOTA 2. I played about 10 games, none of which ended without at least one guy leaving the game at 5-10 minutes.


So what you are saying is that when I get to ranked games, they will disappear?

HA. You're funny.
It's your boy Guzma!
Simberto
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Germany11628 Posts
August 24 2012 17:02 GMT
#5009
No, not disappear. But if you achieve a reasonable rating, or even a reasonable normal elo, complete afks get pretty rare. You still get annoying assholes, but we are on the internet, so that is to be expected at any time. I must say that i have not seen an afk in my games for quite some time.
kainzero
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United States5211 Posts
August 24 2012 17:14 GMT
#5010
playing with friends, i pick jungle lulu. obviously it's not easy but whatever, we're just messing around and we got our first win of the day already.
our lux mid gets smashed by ap leblanc. our bot panth builds warmogs after 2 dbs and loses lane by over 100 cd. our top lane loses bad too.

at the end of the game, i have the highest CS and the most gold.
i'm not really mad, we're friends just playing for fun anyway, but then on skype...

"well i don't think jungle lulu really works."

uh, yea, i don't think it's my fault...
ninjakingcola
Profile Joined March 2011
United States405 Posts
August 24 2012 17:29 GMT
#5011
I honestly don't know how people can screw up playing Morgana, like really, W the minon wave, land the bindings, and R in teamfights, it's literally that easy and yet somehow every time I get a morg on my team she feeds the fuck out of mid.
Where my demons hide? Why, if I showed you it wouldn't be a secret my dear.
Simberto
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Germany11628 Posts
August 24 2012 17:41 GMT
#5012
On August 25 2012 02:14 kainzero wrote:
playing with friends, i pick jungle lulu. obviously it's not easy but whatever, we're just messing around and we got our first win of the day already.
our lux mid gets smashed by ap leblanc. our bot panth builds warmogs after 2 dbs and loses lane by over 100 cd. our top lane loses bad too.

at the end of the game, i have the highest CS and the most gold.
i'm not really mad, we're friends just playing for fun anyway, but then on skype...

"well i don't think jungle lulu really works."

uh, yea, i don't think it's my fault...


It could still very well be your fault. If, for example, the enemy jungler had a huge impact onto the game, and thus lead to those losing lanes, while you did not do anything except farm jungle all day long, then losing lanes can be your fault, too.
Tatari
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States1179 Posts
August 24 2012 18:54 GMT
#5013
On August 25 2012 02:29 ninjakingcola wrote:
I honestly don't know how people can screw up playing Morgana, like really, W the minon wave, land the bindings, and R in teamfights, it's literally that easy and yet somehow every time I get a morg on my team she feeds the fuck out of mid.


Tbh, I really dislike laning as Morgana. Her AA range is so short, she's easily susceptible to harass.
A fed jungler is no longer a jungler, but a terrorist.
Cheap0
Profile Joined July 2012
United States540 Posts
August 24 2012 19:28 GMT
#5014
On August 24 2012 19:31 EquilasH wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 24 2012 17:45 clickrush wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
k guys i need some really good advice. dropped 250 elo since last week. had a couple bad games in there tbh. now under 1.4k and it feels really awkward. I have spotted a couple weaknesses in my play:

1. I don't really feel the love with alot of roles. my favs are suppor and ap carry. I would LOVE to play only support and ap. But when I dont get the ap spot I often end up not picking support because it can be extremely frustrating. Not because I think my ad carries are worse than me (there are a couple of those but most ppl are good enough for me to adapt to them for both our benefit), but because I really tilt when they misbehave, doing shitty calls, telling me what to do when etc and generally flame. There are ppl who have 'ideas' that are very far from just plain common sense. the carries that would misbehave are in 99% the carries who have big ass holes in their play like bad CS or random/stupid trading or even not trading when they could etc. I generally don't say much though.

2. I don't know how to play from behind: from sc2 I know you have to take risks to play from behind, like all-ins or greedy plays etc. turtling from behind does not work in 99% of the times against a similarly skilled or better opponent and most of the time when your behind that is the case. In LoL ppl think they can turtle their way out of the game. Mb this silly idea comes from DotA? Well in DotA you had hardcarries and you had heroes that are good at turtling. And you could actually turtle because counterwarding was way (way, way) harder and you could retain a sufficient amount of mapcontrol from behind. And also when you turtled that was your strategy from the get go. It made sense to turtle because you knew you had to anyways. That said, In LoL it generally does not make sense at all to turtle, because everything scales about the same. Alot of good players have stated that you need to make plays to come back. Nontheless ppl are playing extremely bad from behind, letting their opponents do what ever they want. I don't know what to do anymore in this situation. Generally I just try to go with the flow, but it obv does not work. How do you actually turtle in LoL so you dont fall more behind (the rabbit/turtle analogy does not work btw.)??

3. I have some issues midlane when I play against ppl who I consider 'randomly aggressive'. It is smart to do randomly aggressive stuff now and then to throw ppl off, like ulting and igniting someone when you cannot kill them, can surprise and make them focus on your lane if you want them to (your jungler is counterjungling for example). In bad matchups i sometimes play aggressive from level 1-2 just because ppl don't expect it, so they earn a bit respect and everyone is about the same at lvl 1-2 anyways. But there are players who would completely ignore the fact that there are junglers in the game. They would push like crazy and POKE ME NEAR TURRET while I try to lashit. I don't know how to freaking play against them when my jungler is in solomid-guide-route-mode and doesn't gank. Random aggression like this often leads to both us having low health very early on and bad CS, but the random guy can get away with going back to base if he doesnt get ganked and he would lose less CS/exp in the process. It makes me mad when ppl get advantages from bad play. generally the mid lane pushes right around the time when jungler has red or is at wraiths, which is why I don't do it, and in 50% of the cases you get ganked hardcore for play like this. In one of my last games I even had an opponent lee sin jungle who would flash on me near my turret just for the lulz (he got away with 5% health or sth.)
how should I react to randomly aggressive players? what can I learn from this?


1) It's a good thing that you're limiting yourself to just 2 roles.
Imo the best way to learn the game and get to a higher Elo is to literally spam one champion every game.
For example if you wanted to exclusively play Cassiopeia (this is a really good choice btw because she's strong but she's not played a lot), then you just say in champ select every game "I prefer mid - it's much better than my other roles".
The most important thing is that in the first 100 games or so just pick that champion into EVERYTHING - it doesn't matter if your team says that you're against a hard counter or whatever.
Then when you've learned everything there is to know about said champion you can start only picking it into favorable matchups or whatever.

This may sound a bit like you only improve with one champion, but from my experience that's not the case at all and you'll see a huge general improvement just because you'll slow down learning about the specific champion and you can start putting your focus elsewhere.



This is a really interesting thing to say, and I like it a lot. I'm still pretty newbish (not yet ranked), and I was trying to figure out how to really improve and get good at this game, and initially, I had planned on trying to apply this lesson, which is also good for improving at SCII, over to LoL. I eventually decided to branch out though, because I felt like my knowledge about the game was limited, particularly in how other roles played and felt, and I also didn't really learn what the other champions where and what they'd do, etc. There is an enormous burden of knowledge in being effective at LoL, even just having a cursory knowledge of all 103 champions. I'm still looking up info on LoL wiki on almost every loading screen.

Now that I've overcome that barrier and gained a lot of general knowledge about all the different roles, champions, etc I think it might be better to do what you say and focus in on specific champions and playing them well. I've kind of been doing this with Nasus by playing him blind pick and experiencing the different matchups with him, even the ones where I just get demolished. Overall, I feel like I've learned a lot, both about Nasus and about the top lane in general, since learning Nasus has taught me to be patient and how to control the lane well (it's an essential skill for top lane, but especially for Nasus I think).
kainzero
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United States5211 Posts
August 24 2012 20:15 GMT
#5015
On August 25 2012 02:41 Simberto wrote:
It could still very well be your fault. If, for example, the enemy jungler had a huge impact onto the game, and thus lead to those losing lanes, while you did not do anything except farm jungle all day long, then losing lanes can be your fault, too.

It could (and I have no problem with it being my fault, I tend to blame myself more than anything) but in this case it wasn't.

In this case, everyone played poorly, me included. I don't mind everyone saying "We played terrible," I don't mind playing with friends that are terrible (I'm the only hardcore one) as long as we have fun.

But instead of thinking, "I should've played lane better" it became "Jungle Lulu just doesn't work," which doesn't make sense when I played the best out of us 5.
Requizen
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States33802 Posts
August 25 2012 05:03 GMT
#5016
Focus Nautilus, ignore fed Graves and Morde. Then run as soon as all their cooldowns are gone and we have the advantage.

SMART.
It's your boy Guzma!
plasmidghost
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
Belgium16168 Posts
August 25 2012 05:56 GMT
#5017
Morgana gets banned so much that I haven't played her in forever in a match. Finally, she doesn't get banned one game, so I pick her, expecting to own, only to find out I'd lost most of my skills with her, and couldn't do shit.
Yugoslavia will always live on in my heart
obesechicken13
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States10467 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-25 06:06:39
August 25 2012 06:02 GMT
#5018
Another game where bot ends up feeding. It happens. Sometimes I get carried when my bot gets fed. What was annoying though was that I was up against gp10 nunu and I wanted to prove that I was stronger than him mid->late game as kayle. He can beat me in lane. That's fine. I just wanted to beat nunu after that.

At first I thought I was up against jax but then he ended up jungling. All game I just wanted riven to gank bot and leave me alone at top. I got teleport, I wasn't trying to run a kill lane. I was trying to get some mr to sustain nunu's harass and to push the lane so I could go back every few minutes to heal up.

Also annoying was how Ezrael kept calling out leona and trying to get us to report her. Ez started intentional feeding. I only saw him feed once, but after the game he said he was trolling leona because leona trolled him in lane. :-/
She's your support. Your support gives up farm so you can have kills in this game. You don't talk bad about your support when your support is positive and helping in teamfights.

Since I was up against nunu and nunu can't push for his life, I did manage to help a lot of teamfights by just teleporting everywhere. I feel like I did so much more than the nunu who had to stay top lane all game

Could be worse, my jungle riven's past 4 games (all the ones tonight) have been losses.
I think in our modern age technology has evolved to become more addictive. The things that don't give us pleasure aren't used as much. Work was never meant to be fun, but doing it makes us happier in the long run.
Simberto
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Germany11628 Posts
August 25 2012 12:41 GMT
#5019
On August 25 2012 15:02 obesechicken13 wrote:
Also annoying was how Ezrael kept calling out leona and trying to get us to report her. Ez started intentional feeding. I only saw him feed once, but after the game he said he was trolling leona because leona trolled him in lane. :-/
She's your support. Your support gives up farm so you can have kills in this game. You don't talk bad about your support when your support is positive and helping in teamfights.


This sounds awefully familiar. If you were not playing on US, i would be sure that i had played with the same guy. Playing AD carry, doing bad, than "my support trolls me, so i troll him", repeating that same absurd statement over and over whenever someone talked to him, and randomly starting to jungle as caitlyn on level 5.
Gaslo
Profile Joined February 2011
Finland951 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-26 12:17:27
August 25 2012 12:51 GMT
#5020
Heh, jungle xin, i start with wolfs, get minimal help so have to leave one up while i go to blue, i was thinking about level 2 ganking, but neither mid nor top wants to pull, so i take farm mode. I go wraiths -> red -> golems, and while i am there mid Fizz dies to Gragas 1v1, leaving Gragas with 70% hp. He blames it on the fact he had no ignite from our invade. Tells me that mid has no ignite (interesting). I go bot and get 2 kills from there, and then i B. At this point i am level 4, and just back to fountain when Fizz again initiates on Gragas, and somehow dies without doing any damage. Guess who he blames for all this?
a.Jungler b. himself?

Blah. All in all it was just funny, especially when my whole team told him that it was all his fault, and he should just stfu. But yeah, getting blamed for him losing his lane at level 4, where the enemy has had zero jungle help is funny, super funny.

edit: ill just edit this here, no need to QQ on every page. And this is more to my series of WTF IS WRONG WITH PEOPLE. :|

Game starts, i am anivia, i go to the middle of mid lane, and see them invading. I ping that brush, and tell our team that they are there. For some reason our bot + top dont want to come, so i think we will just give up on our blue buff, maybe go to theirs.
But then this chat happens
Me: they are in that brush, invading our blue
Skarner: (pings the same spot) GO CHECK IT
Me: mmmh, no... they are there as 5.
Skarner: ITS YOUR JOB TO PROTECT THAT BUSH, GO THERE
Me. like i said, they are there... dont go there...
Skarner: Hmh... *goes to the brush, dies instantly*
Skarner: Fuck you anivia, its your job to protect me
Me: but i told you where they were?! why did you go there
Skarner: ANIVIA NO PROTECT ME THATS WHY

Yep, thats why.
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