EPTDreamHack Dallas 2025 - Page 12
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Poland9267 Posts
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Elentos
55561 Posts
I don't want to see Serral win but I also don't want the other side of the bracket to win so what you're proposing me here is just another lose-lose situation. | ||
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tigera6
3449 Posts
On May 26 2025 00:54 Charoisaur wrote: why is that though? I don't think the last patch changed TvP too much? sure Ghosts take more supply but Disruptors are also a bit worse and energy overcharge at least in PvT is I think worse than battery overcharge Exactly because there is no battery overcharge, that make defending the earlier push more difficult for Protoss. Playing a standard macro game is harder because Protoss can take control of the map easier with Hallucination Phoenix. | ||
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dysenterymd
1250 Posts
On May 26 2025 00:54 Charoisaur wrote: why is that though? I don't think the last patch changed TvP too much? sure Ghosts take more supply but Disruptors are also a bit worse and energy overcharge at least in PvT is I think worse than battery overcharge Late game is still fine for Terran, but Protoss have gotten really good at hanging out on the edge of the Terran's base and taking good trades with collosi/getting an oppressive amount of storm in the mid-game w energy recharge. Terran usually goes into the late game behind. | ||
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darklycid
3517 Posts
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tigera6
3449 Posts
On May 26 2025 00:57 Gescom wrote: My conspiracy is that the players are getting old and bored and worse at the game for the first time in SC2 history so we're regressing back towards this. Both players played pretty mediocre thru all 5 games tbh. There's a lack of energy and patience to play a macro game (thru multiple boX series)... Trust me, Protoss player has zero problem with playing a long macro game PvT where they can take 4-5 bases before Terran have their 3rd on location. | ||
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Elentos
55561 Posts
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Antithesis
Germany1215 Posts
On May 26 2025 00:54 Charoisaur wrote: why is that though? I don't think the last patch changed TvP too much? sure Ghosts take more supply but Disruptors are also a bit worse and energy overcharge at least in PvT is I think worse than battery overcharge I think it also relates to why taking the hard and tedious route, when you have a more than reasonable chance of finishing the game early on, sort of as when some metas ago every protoss played skytoss because at the time it was much easier and more effective than anything else, not because the other options were altogether unviable. | ||
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tigera6
3449 Posts
On May 26 2025 00:57 Charoisaur wrote: they can just get kited and never get a hit of, no? Marauders have higher range They dont need to chase Marauder, just making sure they dont get killed, deal with SCV and wait for more warp-in. Those Marauders where 1-shoting Stalker through Shield Battery. An Overcharge would shut that down immediately in the old patch. | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany16021 Posts
On May 26 2025 01:07 Antithesis wrote: I think it also relates to why taking the hard and tedious route, when you have a more than reasonable chance of finishing the game early on, sort of as when some metas ago every protoss played skytoss because at the time it was much easier and more effective than anything else, not because the other options were altogether unviable. fair point, especially without overcharge some of these pushes seem brutal to hold | ||
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Elentos
55561 Posts
On May 26 2025 01:07 tigera6 wrote: They dont need to chase Marauder, just making sure they dont get killed, deal with SCV and wait for more warp-in. Those Marauders where 1-shoting Stalker through Shield Battery. An Overcharge would shut that down immediately in the old patch. If it wasn't stalkers Maru could have just killed the batteries first instead of the adepts. I don't think that buys nearly as much time as necessary. | ||
Waxangel
United States33509 Posts
On May 26 2025 01:01 tigera6 wrote: Exactly because there is no battery overcharge, that make defending the earlier push more difficult for Protoss. Playing a standard macro game is harder because Protoss can take control of the map easier with Hallucination Phoenix. It's not that simple, because it's not like Protoss was getting destroyed by 'old' Queen walks and Marine-Tank timings immediately after the patch, which was what some people feared. It's more of a recent-ish meta development that Zerg are more all-in prone, and pro Terrans are extremely all-in heavy. I couldn't describe every single step toward getting here, but it's not as simple as 'all-ins > no shield overcharge.' | ||
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tigera6
3449 Posts
On May 26 2025 01:12 Elentos wrote: If it wasn't stalkers Maru could have just killed the batteries first instead of the adepts. I don't think that buys nearly as much time as necessary. Thats fine, as the Adepts can take out all the SCVs and Probe-pull to fight the Marauders, Stalker is just so bad against Marauder with Concussive imo. On May 26 2025 01:15 Waxangel wrote: It's not that simple, because it's not like Protoss was getting destroyed by 'old' Queen walks and Marine-Tank timings immediately after the patch, which was what some people feared. It's more of a recent meta development that Zerg are more all-in prone, and pro Terrans are extremely all-in heavy. I couldn't describe every single step toward getting here, but it's not as simple as 'all-ins > no shield overcharge.' I understand its not that clear-cut, but that probably tip the scale for several Terran players imo. | ||
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Elentos
55561 Posts
On May 26 2025 01:15 Waxangel wrote: It's not that simple, because it's not like Protoss was getting destroyed by 'old' Queen walks and Marine-Tank timings immediately after the patch, which was what some people feared. It's more of a recent meta development that Zerg are more all-in prone, and pro Terrans are extremely all-in heavy. I couldn't describe every single step toward getting here, but it's not as simple as 'all-ins > no shield overcharge.' Ultimately all it comes down to is pros do what is more likely to win them games and macro games tend to go better for Protoss. | ||
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Asha
United Kingdom38257 Posts
On May 26 2025 01:01 dysenterymd wrote: Late game is still fine for Terran, but Protoss have gotten really good at hanging out on the edge of the Terran's base and taking good trades with collosi/getting an oppressive amount of storm in the mid-game w energy recharge. Terran usually goes into the late game behind. This is the simplest & probably best answer. Why play for a game state where you might be able to fight evenly but are precariously behind (very common to see T trying to take a third at the time P is going up to 5) and you're reliant on your execution equalising the game, when you can play from an equal state where your execution might win you the game? Great to see Classic being properly competitive in this series | ||
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Waxangel
United States33509 Posts
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tigera6
3449 Posts
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geokilla
Canada8244 Posts
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Waxangel
United States33509 Posts
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Poopi
France12906 Posts
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