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whoaa!!! i cant believe it either. and Serral 3-0 herO wtf?!!!
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United Kingdom38257 Posts
Basically a flawless series from herO. Monstrous
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On August 17 2024 00:15 dysenterymd wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2024 23:31 Acrofales wrote:On August 16 2024 22:19 onPHYRE wrote:On August 16 2024 21:08 Acrofales wrote:On August 16 2024 20:19 onPHYRE wrote:On August 16 2024 18:31 kajtarp wrote:
There was a thread few months ago about the double elimination format where i expressed my opinion heavily, why i dislike double elim. My opinion haven't changed. While for certain, double elim format results in more matches, which many of us certainly enjoys, it eliminates the suprise, the upset from tournaments. In a non double elim tournament Maru and Serral would be knocked out by now by Clem and Dark. They absolutely played well, they played their hearts out, they came up with good strategies and executions. They deserved their win. But with this format Serral and Maru can just look back the replays, and adjust their gameplay while they still have 2 lives left. I honestly does not see any of them not reaching the final four. Where they will have pretty good chances to play the finals despite their losses from yesterday and based on their replays they can just brainstorm and plug their holes. In a non double elim format they could still do it,yes. In the next tournament ... Everyone but Dark and Clem would be eliminated already… Showtime and SHIN wouldn’t even have played a game. What a terrible tournament that would be. You can’t even draw any conclusions from current results as players play differently if they know they have three lives (like they do here). They are more likely to save builds and take greater risks. The matches very likely play out differently. While the group stage is in a bracket format, it is still the group stage. The matches so far are equivalent to the group stage of the World Cup or the regular season of the NFL. Everyone battles for placement and once you get to the knockout bracket (the next stage), it is one and done. Quick example - Argentina lost to Saudi Arabia in 2022 and went on to win the World Cup. Essentially this group stage looks different, but it’s meant to accomplish the same thing. Seed players for the knockouts. That's true, but it's a bit lopsided. The seeding usually matters beyond the 1st/2nd place. If all this is about is the seeding, why does 3rd-16th all get unceremoniously dumped in the first round of the knockout? If you're going to treat it that way, why not do something like the WTL, where top spots of the group gets you into the final 4, but everything else still matters. 2nd place? Seed into Ro6, 3rd place? Ro8. You could easily make an interesting knockout bracket with seeding from the "group stage" as they are without dumping everybody into a brutal gauntlet regardless of their performance outside of top 2. It’s actually very similar to every other tournament once in the knockout. In the World Cup you don’t start in the semifinals just because you won your group. Regardless of how well you did in the group stage everyone starts in the same round. Here you actually have more credit for doing well in the group stage. The two winners advance to semis, as well as the 3rd place finisher. The 4th place finisher starts one round later in the knockout stages and 5-16 join the 2 late qualifiers to form the first round of the knockout. A WTL style bracket when its 1v1 and not multiple players playing multiple series would create far less games and give way too much of a reward based on seeding. There is no popular sport that does it that way for a reason. This is a weird group stage (you can lose twice, just like in a WC group) that goes into a relatively normal knockout bracket. On August 16 2024 22:11 Zzzapper wrote:
Not a big fan of a format where you can go 3-2 and get no advantage other than seeding (compared to going 0-2) into a grueling single elimination bracket Why? That’s how it works in the GSL and most other sports - I will use the World Cup as an example since it’s the most popular sporting event on the planet. For most of the time GSL has been around if you go 4-0 in your GSL round of 16 group and someone goes 5-4, you have no advantage in the knockout ro8 other than seeding. The World Cup does not reward a team going 3-0’in the groups by starting in a later round versus a team that went 1-0-2 and advanced on tiebreakers. The difference is seeding. Literally the same concept. Not true. If you score top 2 in a WC group you advance. If you score bottom 2, you go home. Here you win the group, you advance. You score 2nd, you get a last chance to advance. And otherwise absolutely everybody goes into a Bo3 gauntlet. And if they were 4 groups of 4 seeding into the top 8 or so, it'd make a bit more sense to have the rest all dumped down together. But it's an 8-player group where 3-8 are irrelevant. Yes, there's some seeding happening, but the seeds seem quite irrelevant. Sad that if Oliveira/herO get bopped again by Maru/Serral, they'll have almost nothing to show for making great lower bracket runs and playing their hearts out. I wouldn't mind the triple elim format if placement in the groups mattered a little more.
Yeah a real triple elim format would seed them higher in the final elimination bracket.
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Protoss is back baby!! Haha. ;]
Very nice..
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Is the gap between Serral ZvP and literally every other Zerg really that big? It's insane how herO dominates every other Zerg with ease and has no chance against Seral.
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What make Serral so hard to deal with is that he focus on tech first, and would rarely get out-tech by the opponent. Serral would have had 6-7 Lurkers before herO can get to good Disruptor count, and then 3-4 Vipers right after that to clean up the Robo unit.
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On August 17 2024 00:24 Gescom wrote:
Protoss is back baby!! Haha. ;]
Very nice..
It literally doesn't matter, though. Serral is gonna bop him again and then he'll have nothing to show for this awesome run.
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Canada8989 Posts
On August 17 2024 00:15 dysenterymd wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2024 23:31 Acrofales wrote:On August 16 2024 22:19 onPHYRE wrote:On August 16 2024 21:08 Acrofales wrote:On August 16 2024 20:19 onPHYRE wrote:On August 16 2024 18:31 kajtarp wrote:
There was a thread few months ago about the double elimination format where i expressed my opinion heavily, why i dislike double elim. My opinion haven't changed. While for certain, double elim format results in more matches, which many of us certainly enjoys, it eliminates the suprise, the upset from tournaments. In a non double elim tournament Maru and Serral would be knocked out by now by Clem and Dark. They absolutely played well, they played their hearts out, they came up with good strategies and executions. They deserved their win. But with this format Serral and Maru can just look back the replays, and adjust their gameplay while they still have 2 lives left. I honestly does not see any of them not reaching the final four. Where they will have pretty good chances to play the finals despite their losses from yesterday and based on their replays they can just brainstorm and plug their holes. In a non double elim format they could still do it,yes. In the next tournament ... Everyone but Dark and Clem would be eliminated already… Showtime and SHIN wouldn’t even have played a game. What a terrible tournament that would be. You can’t even draw any conclusions from current results as players play differently if they know they have three lives (like they do here). They are more likely to save builds and take greater risks. The matches very likely play out differently. While the group stage is in a bracket format, it is still the group stage. The matches so far are equivalent to the group stage of the World Cup or the regular season of the NFL. Everyone battles for placement and once you get to the knockout bracket (the next stage), it is one and done. Quick example - Argentina lost to Saudi Arabia in 2022 and went on to win the World Cup. Essentially this group stage looks different, but it’s meant to accomplish the same thing. Seed players for the knockouts. That's true, but it's a bit lopsided. The seeding usually matters beyond the 1st/2nd place. If all this is about is the seeding, why does 3rd-16th all get unceremoniously dumped in the first round of the knockout? If you're going to treat it that way, why not do something like the WTL, where top spots of the group gets you into the final 4, but everything else still matters. 2nd place? Seed into Ro6, 3rd place? Ro8. You could easily make an interesting knockout bracket with seeding from the "group stage" as they are without dumping everybody into a brutal gauntlet regardless of their performance outside of top 2. It’s actually very similar to every other tournament once in the knockout. In the World Cup you don’t start in the semifinals just because you won your group. Regardless of how well you did in the group stage everyone starts in the same round. Here you actually have more credit for doing well in the group stage. The two winners advance to semis, as well as the 3rd place finisher. The 4th place finisher starts one round later in the knockout stages and 5-16 join the 2 late qualifiers to form the first round of the knockout. A WTL style bracket when its 1v1 and not multiple players playing multiple series would create far less games and give way too much of a reward based on seeding. There is no popular sport that does it that way for a reason. This is a weird group stage (you can lose twice, just like in a WC group) that goes into a relatively normal knockout bracket. On August 16 2024 22:11 Zzzapper wrote:
Not a big fan of a format where you can go 3-2 and get no advantage other than seeding (compared to going 0-2) into a grueling single elimination bracket Why? That’s how it works in the GSL and most other sports - I will use the World Cup as an example since it’s the most popular sporting event on the planet. For most of the time GSL has been around if you go 4-0 in your GSL round of 16 group and someone goes 5-4, you have no advantage in the knockout ro8 other than seeding. The World Cup does not reward a team going 3-0’in the groups by starting in a later round versus a team that went 1-0-2 and advanced on tiebreakers. The difference is seeding. Literally the same concept. Not true. If you score top 2 in a WC group you advance. If you score bottom 2, you go home. Here you win the group, you advance. You score 2nd, you get a last chance to advance. And otherwise absolutely everybody goes into a Bo3 gauntlet. And if they were 4 groups of 4 seeding into the top 8 or so, it'd make a bit more sense to have the rest all dumped down together. But it's an 8-player group where 3-8 are irrelevant. Yes, there's some seeding happening, but the seeds seem quite irrelevant. Sad that if Oliveira/herO get bopped again by Maru/Serral, they'll have almost nothing to show for making great lower bracket runs and playing their hearts out. I wouldn't mind the triple elim format if placement in the groups mattered a little more.
It's actually better to lose early (especially as toss) because you don't have to show your builds, plus get a bit more time to prepare.
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On August 17 2024 00:27 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2024 00:24 Gescom wrote:
Protoss is back baby!! Haha. ;]
Very nice.. It literally doesn't matter, though. Serral is gonna bop him again and then he'll have nothing to show for this awesome run.
I would guessed the same for Clem, but here we are. Let's see how well Serral slept last night. ^^
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Maru has to go through Oliveira and Serral next, the only two players to have really embarrassed him, will he choke?
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Northern Ireland26225 Posts
On August 17 2024 00:27 Nakajin wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2024 00:15 dysenterymd wrote:On August 16 2024 23:31 Acrofales wrote:On August 16 2024 22:19 onPHYRE wrote:On August 16 2024 21:08 Acrofales wrote:On August 16 2024 20:19 onPHYRE wrote:On August 16 2024 18:31 kajtarp wrote:
There was a thread few months ago about the double elimination format where i expressed my opinion heavily, why i dislike double elim. My opinion haven't changed. While for certain, double elim format results in more matches, which many of us certainly enjoys, it eliminates the suprise, the upset from tournaments. In a non double elim tournament Maru and Serral would be knocked out by now by Clem and Dark. They absolutely played well, they played their hearts out, they came up with good strategies and executions. They deserved their win. But with this format Serral and Maru can just look back the replays, and adjust their gameplay while they still have 2 lives left. I honestly does not see any of them not reaching the final four. Where they will have pretty good chances to play the finals despite their losses from yesterday and based on their replays they can just brainstorm and plug their holes. In a non double elim format they could still do it,yes. In the next tournament ... Everyone but Dark and Clem would be eliminated already… Showtime and SHIN wouldn’t even have played a game. What a terrible tournament that would be. You can’t even draw any conclusions from current results as players play differently if they know they have three lives (like they do here). They are more likely to save builds and take greater risks. The matches very likely play out differently. While the group stage is in a bracket format, it is still the group stage. The matches so far are equivalent to the group stage of the World Cup or the regular season of the NFL. Everyone battles for placement and once you get to the knockout bracket (the next stage), it is one and done. Quick example - Argentina lost to Saudi Arabia in 2022 and went on to win the World Cup. Essentially this group stage looks different, but it’s meant to accomplish the same thing. Seed players for the knockouts. That's true, but it's a bit lopsided. The seeding usually matters beyond the 1st/2nd place. If all this is about is the seeding, why does 3rd-16th all get unceremoniously dumped in the first round of the knockout? If you're going to treat it that way, why not do something like the WTL, where top spots of the group gets you into the final 4, but everything else still matters. 2nd place? Seed into Ro6, 3rd place? Ro8. You could easily make an interesting knockout bracket with seeding from the "group stage" as they are without dumping everybody into a brutal gauntlet regardless of their performance outside of top 2. It’s actually very similar to every other tournament once in the knockout. In the World Cup you don’t start in the semifinals just because you won your group. Regardless of how well you did in the group stage everyone starts in the same round. Here you actually have more credit for doing well in the group stage. The two winners advance to semis, as well as the 3rd place finisher. The 4th place finisher starts one round later in the knockout stages and 5-16 join the 2 late qualifiers to form the first round of the knockout. A WTL style bracket when its 1v1 and not multiple players playing multiple series would create far less games and give way too much of a reward based on seeding. There is no popular sport that does it that way for a reason. This is a weird group stage (you can lose twice, just like in a WC group) that goes into a relatively normal knockout bracket. On August 16 2024 22:11 Zzzapper wrote:
Not a big fan of a format where you can go 3-2 and get no advantage other than seeding (compared to going 0-2) into a grueling single elimination bracket Why? That’s how it works in the GSL and most other sports - I will use the World Cup as an example since it’s the most popular sporting event on the planet. For most of the time GSL has been around if you go 4-0 in your GSL round of 16 group and someone goes 5-4, you have no advantage in the knockout ro8 other than seeding. The World Cup does not reward a team going 3-0’in the groups by starting in a later round versus a team that went 1-0-2 and advanced on tiebreakers. The difference is seeding. Literally the same concept. Not true. If you score top 2 in a WC group you advance. If you score bottom 2, you go home. Here you win the group, you advance. You score 2nd, you get a last chance to advance. And otherwise absolutely everybody goes into a Bo3 gauntlet. And if they were 4 groups of 4 seeding into the top 8 or so, it'd make a bit more sense to have the rest all dumped down together. But it's an 8-player group where 3-8 are irrelevant. Yes, there's some seeding happening, but the seeds seem quite irrelevant. Sad that if Oliveira/herO get bopped again by Maru/Serral, they'll have almost nothing to show for making great lower bracket runs and playing their hearts out. I wouldn't mind the triple elim format if placement in the groups mattered a little more. It's actually better to lose early (especially as toss) because you don't have to show your builds, plus get a bit more time to prepare.
Yeah, ideally you want to avoid being yet another Protoss to fall victim to WombaT’s LawTM
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On August 17 2024 00:30 Gescom wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2024 00:27 Acrofales wrote:On August 17 2024 00:24 Gescom wrote:
Protoss is back baby!! Haha. ;]
Very nice.. It literally doesn't matter, though. Serral is gonna bop him again and then he'll have nothing to show for this awesome run. I would guessed the same for Clem, but here we are. Let's see how well Serral slept last night. ^^
Serral played that similar late game army from herO yesterday and dismantled it.
It's true that today is a new day, but I don't have much hope. I wasn't expecting Clem to be a walkover. I obviously didn't expect Clem to just 3-0 him, but Serral's ZvP has been on another level for years now.
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Canada8989 Posts
On August 17 2024 00:35 WombaT wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2024 00:27 Nakajin wrote:On August 17 2024 00:15 dysenterymd wrote:On August 16 2024 23:31 Acrofales wrote:On August 16 2024 22:19 onPHYRE wrote:On August 16 2024 21:08 Acrofales wrote:On August 16 2024 20:19 onPHYRE wrote:On August 16 2024 18:31 kajtarp wrote:
There was a thread few months ago about the double elimination format where i expressed my opinion heavily, why i dislike double elim. My opinion haven't changed. While for certain, double elim format results in more matches, which many of us certainly enjoys, it eliminates the suprise, the upset from tournaments. In a non double elim tournament Maru and Serral would be knocked out by now by Clem and Dark. They absolutely played well, they played their hearts out, they came up with good strategies and executions. They deserved their win. But with this format Serral and Maru can just look back the replays, and adjust their gameplay while they still have 2 lives left. I honestly does not see any of them not reaching the final four. Where they will have pretty good chances to play the finals despite their losses from yesterday and based on their replays they can just brainstorm and plug their holes. In a non double elim format they could still do it,yes. In the next tournament ... Everyone but Dark and Clem would be eliminated already… Showtime and SHIN wouldn’t even have played a game. What a terrible tournament that would be. You can’t even draw any conclusions from current results as players play differently if they know they have three lives (like they do here). They are more likely to save builds and take greater risks. The matches very likely play out differently. While the group stage is in a bracket format, it is still the group stage. The matches so far are equivalent to the group stage of the World Cup or the regular season of the NFL. Everyone battles for placement and once you get to the knockout bracket (the next stage), it is one and done. Quick example - Argentina lost to Saudi Arabia in 2022 and went on to win the World Cup. Essentially this group stage looks different, but it’s meant to accomplish the same thing. Seed players for the knockouts. That's true, but it's a bit lopsided. The seeding usually matters beyond the 1st/2nd place. If all this is about is the seeding, why does 3rd-16th all get unceremoniously dumped in the first round of the knockout? If you're going to treat it that way, why not do something like the WTL, where top spots of the group gets you into the final 4, but everything else still matters. 2nd place? Seed into Ro6, 3rd place? Ro8. You could easily make an interesting knockout bracket with seeding from the "group stage" as they are without dumping everybody into a brutal gauntlet regardless of their performance outside of top 2. It’s actually very similar to every other tournament once in the knockout. In the World Cup you don’t start in the semifinals just because you won your group. Regardless of how well you did in the group stage everyone starts in the same round. Here you actually have more credit for doing well in the group stage. The two winners advance to semis, as well as the 3rd place finisher. The 4th place finisher starts one round later in the knockout stages and 5-16 join the 2 late qualifiers to form the first round of the knockout. A WTL style bracket when its 1v1 and not multiple players playing multiple series would create far less games and give way too much of a reward based on seeding. There is no popular sport that does it that way for a reason. This is a weird group stage (you can lose twice, just like in a WC group) that goes into a relatively normal knockout bracket. On August 16 2024 22:11 Zzzapper wrote:
Not a big fan of a format where you can go 3-2 and get no advantage other than seeding (compared to going 0-2) into a grueling single elimination bracket Why? That’s how it works in the GSL and most other sports - I will use the World Cup as an example since it’s the most popular sporting event on the planet. For most of the time GSL has been around if you go 4-0 in your GSL round of 16 group and someone goes 5-4, you have no advantage in the knockout ro8 other than seeding. The World Cup does not reward a team going 3-0’in the groups by starting in a later round versus a team that went 1-0-2 and advanced on tiebreakers. The difference is seeding. Literally the same concept. Not true. If you score top 2 in a WC group you advance. If you score bottom 2, you go home. Here you win the group, you advance. You score 2nd, you get a last chance to advance. And otherwise absolutely everybody goes into a Bo3 gauntlet. And if they were 4 groups of 4 seeding into the top 8 or so, it'd make a bit more sense to have the rest all dumped down together. But it's an 8-player group where 3-8 are irrelevant. Yes, there's some seeding happening, but the seeds seem quite irrelevant. Sad that if Oliveira/herO get bopped again by Maru/Serral, they'll have almost nothing to show for making great lower bracket runs and playing their hearts out. I wouldn't mind the triple elim format if placement in the groups mattered a little more. It's actually better to lose early (especially as toss) because you don't have to show your builds, plus get a bit more time to prepare. Yeah, ideally you want to avoid being yet another Protoss to fall victim to WombaT’s LawTM
What's the Wombat's law? "A protoss will always disapoint, if he dosen't it's to set up a bigger disapointment"?
Or is it that you need to pet a wombat winthin 30 second of seeing it?
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Northern Ireland26225 Posts
On August 17 2024 00:37 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2024 00:30 Gescom wrote:On August 17 2024 00:27 Acrofales wrote:On August 17 2024 00:24 Gescom wrote:
Protoss is back baby!! Haha. ;]
Very nice.. It literally doesn't matter, though. Serral is gonna bop him again and then he'll have nothing to show for this awesome run. I would guessed the same for Clem, but here we are. Let's see how well Serral slept last night. ^^ Serral played that similar late game army from herO yesterday and dismantled it. It's true that today is a new day, but I don't have much hope. I wasn't expecting Clem to be a walkover. I obviously didn't expect Clem to just 3-0 him, but Serral's ZvP has been on another level for years now.
When did he last lose a really impactful ZvP anyway? Last one I can recall off-hand was Zest glaiving him to death at a Katowice but that’s probably aeons ago now!
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On August 17 2024 00:52 WombaT wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2024 00:37 Acrofales wrote:On August 17 2024 00:30 Gescom wrote:On August 17 2024 00:27 Acrofales wrote:On August 17 2024 00:24 Gescom wrote:
Protoss is back baby!! Haha. ;]
Very nice.. It literally doesn't matter, though. Serral is gonna bop him again and then he'll have nothing to show for this awesome run. I would guessed the same for Clem, but here we are. Let's see how well Serral slept last night. ^^ Serral played that similar late game army from herO yesterday and dismantled it. It's true that today is a new day, but I don't have much hope. I wasn't expecting Clem to be a walkover. I obviously didn't expect Clem to just 3-0 him, but Serral's ZvP has been on another level for years now. When did he last lose a really impactful ZvP anyway? Last one I can recall off-hand was Zest glaiving him to death at a Katowice but that’s probably aeons ago now!
2020 was not too long ago lol
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On August 17 2024 00:54 FCHK wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2024 00:52 WombaT wrote:On August 17 2024 00:37 Acrofales wrote:On August 17 2024 00:30 Gescom wrote:On August 17 2024 00:27 Acrofales wrote:On August 17 2024 00:24 Gescom wrote:
Protoss is back baby!! Haha. ;]
Very nice.. It literally doesn't matter, though. Serral is gonna bop him again and then he'll have nothing to show for this awesome run. I would guessed the same for Clem, but here we are. Let's see how well Serral slept last night. ^^ Serral played that similar late game army from herO yesterday and dismantled it. It's true that today is a new day, but I don't have much hope. I wasn't expecting Clem to be a walkover. I obviously didn't expect Clem to just 3-0 him, but Serral's ZvP has been on another level for years now. When did he last lose a really impactful ZvP anyway? Last one I can recall off-hand was Zest glaiving him to death at a Katowice but that’s probably aeons ago now! 2020 was not too long ago lol
Is this not sarcastic? 4 years? lol
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United Kingdom38257 Posts
Maru TvT decision making is just too good. Absolutely ruthless
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Maru just always know how to win in any TvT situation
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EPT
